About Candid Conversation. Religion and more. Hard Questions. Real Talk. Honest exploration.
I was raised in the secretive 2x2 church and then in the ministry of that church for 25 years before a huge scandal in March 2023 led to an ongoing FBI investigation. This podcast is born from those experiences and focuses on organic, real, candid conversations to help process, deconstruct, heal, learn, grow and, ultimately find the true love, joy and peace in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Let Love Lead is my motto.
Deconstructing from fear based faith to freedom of faith. Navigating beyond high control religion. Navigating beyond life born, raised and ministering in the 2x2 church.
Raised in the 2x2 church and in the 2x2 ministry 25 years and now discovering the freedom and authenticity beyond control, fear, dysfunction, abuse, manipulation, false doctrine and more. This is my podcast to encourage and promote candid conversations that embrace critical thinking, authenticity, and questions without fear that lead us to becoming the beautiful, authentic, unique person God created us to be. You are loved. You are beautiful. You are God's creation. He did not make a mistake. Let LOVE LEAD. HIS LOVE.
18 Sept 2026
"Life is Messy." My Parent's Wisdom. 181 Years of Wisdom and Experience. Reflections of our lives in the 2x2 church and navigating our way forward.
I sat down with my parents one week before my Mom's 90th birthday. Dad is 91. Our family has been through a lot. Life is messy sometimes. Acceptance, love and faith are beautiful. I'm so thankful they agreed to do this podcast with me as I've wanted to do this since I started my podcast.
8 Jun 2026
Psychotherapist reflects on being raised in a high control religion.
- Candid Conversation Part 3 with Erik Larson. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration
- Erik tells his story, some for the first time publicly. We build off his story to circle back around and address how the the 2x2 church affected his life and discuss his personal and professional perspective and analysis
- Erik Larson reached out to me to do a podcast. He is a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker with extensive experience working for Child Protective Services, Adult Protective Services, as a Licensed Armed Private Investigator, and now specializing in private therapy with high pressure men. He reached out to me as he wants to “come out of the shadows” after 26 year to share his story of being raised in the high control 2x2 Church. We are two guys who know each other from way back through the common experience of being raised in the church. I was in the ministry for 25 years and he left being active in the church 30 years ago at 19 years old. The upheaval in the church three years ago recently deceased overseer in the church, Dean Bruer was guilty of led to an ongoing FBI investigation. The catalyst for the upheaval was the revelation that the recently deceased overseer in the church, Dean Bruer was guilty of child and adult sexual assault/rape. Erik is a distant cousin to Dean and he was often in his family home as a young minister when Erik was a young boy. Dean was also in my home as a young boy and then I later worked with him as a co-worker in the ministry.- We will be focused on the good things we gleaned from the church, but perhaps more significantly discuss the high control, secretive, false doctrine aspects that have contributed to abuse, covered abuse and ignored it due to fear, shame, intimidation, and emotional control. We are two guys who will talk candidly from our experiences and knowledge. We don’t claim to say everything right, but we are trying to get things right!
- My purpose in the Candid Conversation Podcast is not necessarily to exclusively interview a person as many podcasts do, but to have a genuine, unedited, real conversation about real topics in a way that can help all of us find the courage, faith and love to live our authentic self that God so beautifully created as uniquely you!
18 May 2026
Discovering Authenticity. From fear and suffocation to freedom of LETTING LOVE LEAD. My Journey.
Candid Conversations Podcast. The Genesis. The Beginning. Why did I start this podcast? It was born out of my journey being raised in the secretive 2x2 church (high control religion), going into the ministry, or becoming a "worker" for over 25 years. The church often calls itself "The Truth" and the members "friends." In 2023 revelations of widespread CSA led to an ongoing FBI investigation into the church. I began writing a book about my life and experiences (120 pages in now) after starting life all over again three years ago when I left the volunteer ministry I had given my life to. I have seen and felt a great need in myself and countless others, to move beyond and through fear and discomfort. How? Lean INTO the uncomfortable. Express your doubts, questions, and fears. I have always craved candid conversations as they stimulate growth. That's what I want this podcast to be. I look forward to more guest/visitors contributing to these conversations that lean into the uncomfortable with Love leading the way. I want to help stimulate growth in all of us.
5 May 2026
Raised in a High Control Religion. One left. One stayed and ministered. Reconnecting after 30 years.
- Candid Conversation Part 2 with Erik Larson. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration
- This was recorded the same day immediately following Part 1. Yes, I readily acknowledge I talked too much, but Erik and I decided to go ahead and publish as is. This is a learning process for me and we plan a Part 3 with more Eric air time! My purpose in the Candid Conversation Podcast is not necessarily to exclusively interview a person as many podcasts do, but to have a genuine, unedited, real conversation about real topics in a way that can help all of us find the courage, faith and love to live our authentic self that God so beautifully created as uniquely you!Erik Larson reached out to me to do a podcast. He is a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker with extensive experience working for Child Protective Services, Adult Protective Services, as a Licensed Armed Private Investigator, and now specializing in private therapy with high pressure men. He reached out to me as he wants to “come out of the shadows” after 26 year to share his story of being raised in the high control 2x2 Church. We are two guys who know each other from way back through the common experience of being raised in the church. I was in the ministry for 25 years and he left being active in the church 30 years ago at 19 years old. The upheaval in the church three years ago recently deceased overseer in the church, Dean Bruer was guilty of led to an ongoing FBI investigation. The catalyst for the upheaval was the revelation that the recently deceased overseer in the church, Dean Bruer was guilty of child and adult sexual assault/rape. Erik is a distant cousin to Dean and he was often in his family home as a young minister when Erik was a young boy. Dean was also in my home as a young boy and then I later worked with him as a co-worker in the ministry.We will be focused on the good things we gleaned from the church, but perhaps more significantly discuss the high control, secretive, false doctrine aspects that have contributed to abuse, covered abuse and ignored it due to fear, shame, intimidation, and emotional control. We are two guys who will talk candidly from our experiences and knowledge. We don’t claim to say everything right, but we are trying to get things right!
5 May 2026
Moving on from being raised in a High Control Religion without lingering bitterness and resentment.
- Candid Conversation with Erik Larson Part 1. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration
- Erik Larson reached out to me to do a podcast. He is a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker with extensive experience working for Child Protective Services, Adult Protective Services, as a Licensed Armed Private Investigator, and now specializing in private therapy with high pressure men. He reached out to me as he wants to “come out of the shadows” after 26 year to share his story of being raised in the high control 2x2 Church. We are two guys who know each other from way back through the common experience of being raised in the church. I was in the ministry for 25 years and he left being active in the church 30 years ago at 19 years old. The upheaval in the church three years ago recently deceased overseer in the church, Dean Bruer was guilty of led to an ongoing FBI investigation. The catalyst for the upheaval was the revelation that the recently deceased overseer in the church, Dean Bruer was guilty of child and adult sexual assault/rape. Erik is a distant cousin to Dean and he was often in his family home as a young minister when Erik was a young boy. Dean was also in my home as a young boy and then I later worked with him as a co-worker in the ministry.We will be focused on the good things we gleaned from the church, but perhaps more significantly discuss the high control, secretive, false doctrine aspects that have contributed to abuse, covered abuse and ignored it due to fear, shame, intimidation, and emotional control. We are two guys who will talk candidly from our experiences and knowledge. We don’t claim to say everything right, but we are trying to get things right!
5 May 2026
Wounds of High Control Religion. Processing, Deconstructing while renewing a deeper, richer faith.
- Candid Conversation. Part 2 with Eli Lucas. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration.
- Two guys who met 27 years ago through our common affiliation in the 2x2 church. One a "worker" (minister) and the other a "friend" (member) in the church until the bombshell dropped three years ago, March 23, 2023. This is our second podcast visit. We don’t say everything right. We are just two guys trying to get it right. I hope to do more as I crave candid, real conversation that asks hard questions and explores uncomfortable truths. Without that, we remain stagnant and the cycle of abuse, control, and trauma continues.
7 Apr 2026
From Deep Faith to Deep Hurt. Deconstruction of High Control Religion.
- Candid Conversation. Part 1 with Eli Lucas. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration.
- Two guys who met 27 years ago through our common affiliation in the 2x2 church. One a "worker" (minister) and the other a "friend" (member) in the church until the bombshell dropped three years ago, March 23, 2023. This is our visit. We don’t say everything right. We are just two guys trying to get it right. I did most of the talking, but will post such as it is and we are doing a Part 2 with more from Eli. I hope to do more as I crave candid, real conversation that asks hard questions and explores uncomfortable truths. Without that, we remain stagnant and the cycle of abuse, control, and trauma continues.
1 Apr 2026
High Control Religion Experiences and Lessons from years in the church as a member and minister.
- Candid Conversation. With Doyle Wheeler. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration.
- Two guys raised in the 2x2 church. One a "worker" (minister) and the other a "friend" (member) and then an elder in the church until the bombshell dropped three years ago, March 23, 2023. We met 30 years ago (1996), my first year in the ministry working in Doyle’s hometown. We’ve been friends ever since. This is our visit. We don’t say everything right. We are just two guys trying to get it right. I hope to do more as I crave candid, real conversation that asks hard questions and explores uncomfortable truths. Without that, we remain stagnant and the cycle of abuse, control, and trauma continues.
24 Mar 2026
CSA (Child Sexual Abuse) Runs Rampant in High Control Religion, and more.
- Candid Conversation. With Steve Paddon. Unedited. Real talk. Real questions. Honest exploration.
- Two guys raised in the 2x2 church who knew each other as early adults 30 years ago, now reconnecting on our journeys since that time. One a "worker" (minister) and the other a "friend" (member) in the church until the bombshell dropped three years ago, March 23, 2023. This is our visit starting with that event and just letting the conversation organically flow. I wanted to do this conversation with Steve for months and we finally got it done! I hope to do more as I crave candid, real conversation that asks hard questions and explores uncomfortable truths. Without that, we remain stagnant and the cycle of abuse, control, and trauma continues.* Correction: I mentioned Natalie Bolin when discussing ethics. She has a doctorate in social work and is a licensed clinical social worker. DSW, LCSW. I erroneously stated her doctorate was in sociology.
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