Flipping the Playbook

About Flipping the Playbook

Most marketers are still following old playbooks written decades ago. The rules have changed, but the advice hasn’t. Flipping the Playbook is your license to rebel. This is your front-row seat to find out how leading CMOs are tearing up the old rules and building strategies that move the needle. If you’re tired of being told “this is how it’s done,” let’s flip the playbook together. Flipping the Playbook is hosted by Reza Moaiandin and is produced by Salt Agency (https://salt.agency/).

Publisher

SALT.agency

Category

business

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

9 Jan 2026

Latest episode

9 Jun 2026

Latest episodes

10 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   9 Jun 2026

   What happens when SEO teams start owning revenue? With Amir Shahzeidi | 010

   For years, SEO has often been measured by rankings, traffic and visibility. But what changes when marketers are accountable for something much bigger: growth? In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Reza Moaiandin is joined by Amir Shahzeidi, a growth leader whose career began in SEO before expanding into demand generation, lifecycle marketing, paid media, attribution, and Go-to-Market strategy at Uscreen. Amir helped scale the business from a bootstrapped startup into a company generating more than $25 million in annual revenue, ultimately securing a $150 million private equity investment. Together, they explore what happens when SEO stops operating in a silo and becomes part of a broader commercial growth engine. The conversation covers: Why rankings and traffic are often the wrong success metrics What changes when marketers are measured on revenue instead of visibility The shift from channel ownership to growth ownership How SEO, paid media, lifecycle and product marketing work together Why understanding customer journeys matters more than platform expertise The realities of attribution, experimentation and scaling demand This is a conversation for CMOs, growth leaders, and marketers trying to connect activity with commercial outcomes in a world where channels increasingly overlap. Connect with Amir Shahzeidi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amir-shahzeidi/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/amir-shahzeidi/) Flipping the Playbook is hosted by Reza Moaiandin and is a production of SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency). Connect with Reza: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moaiandin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/moaiandin/)

2. 

   20 May 2026

   The Leadership Problem Behind Marketing Performance, with Dr Julia Morgan | 009

   What separates high-performing marketing teams from those stuck in cycles of burnout, friction, and underperformance? In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Reza Moaiandin sits down with leadership expert Dr Julia Morgan to explore the often-overlooked relationship between leadership quality and marketing quality — and why stronger teams rarely emerge by chance. Together, they unpack the hidden dynamics shaping team performance, from psychological safety and trust to the rise of “accidental leaders” in modern organisations. The conversation challenges the idea that great leaders must always have the answers, instead arguing that the best teams are built through clarity, curiosity, and environments where people feel safe to contribute. Whether you’re a CMO, marketing leader, founder, or anyone responsible for leading knowledge workers, this episode offers a thoughtful look at what it really takes to create teams capable of sustained performance. In this episode, we discuss: Why marketing performance is often a reflection of leadership quality The problem with “accidental leadership” in modern organisations How psychological safety influences creativity, confidence, and performance Why micromanagement quietly damages marketing teams The difference between leading knowledge workers versus operational teams Why high-performing teams don’t happen by accident How better leadership creates better decision-making, trust, and outcomes Key takeaway Strong marketing outcomes are rarely just about strategy, channels, or execution. More often than not, they’re shaped by the quality of leadership behind the scenes — the trust, clarity, and culture leaders create for their teams. About Dr Julia Morgan Dr Julia Morgan is a leadership specialist focused on helping organisations build stronger, healthier, and more effective teams. Her work explores leadership capability, workplace culture, psychological safety, and how organisations can create the conditions for people to thrive. Find Julia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-julia-morgan-30b2798/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-julia-morgan-30b2798/) Flipping the Playbook is a production of SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency). It is hosted by Reza Moaiandin. Find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moaiandin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/moaiandin/)

3. 

   29 Apr 2026

   Your ROAS Is Lying to You: The Profit Playbook for E-commerce CMOs, with Liam Patterson | 008

   Most e-commerce brands think they’re scaling. In reality, they’ve hit a ceiling. In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Liam Patterson, CEO of Bidnamic, explains why one of performance marketing’s most trusted metrics—ROAS—is quietly holding CMOs back. Because ROAS doesn’t measure profit. And if you’re optimising for the wrong metric, you’re not just limiting growth—you may be scaling inefficiency. This conversation unpacks the structural issue at the heart of modern performance marketing: the disconnect between media optimisation and commercial reality. Liam shares why Google Shopping should be treated as a dynamic system, not just another channel, and how leading e-commerce brands are shifting from media buying to profit engineering. If your growth has plateaued, or your paid media performance isn’t translating into real commercial impact, this episode will change how you think about scaling. Key Topics Covered Why ROAS is a misleading metric for CMOs The hidden scaling ceiling in performance marketing Why more budget doesn’t equal more growth The difference between revenue optimisation and profit optimisation How Google Shopping actually works (and why most brands get it wrong) The shift from campaign management to profit engineering Why product-level data is the key to unlocking performance How to align marketing with wider commercial strategy Key Takeaways ROAS ≠ profitability — and optimising for it can distort decision-making Scaling paid media without profit visibility leads to diminishing returns Google Shopping performance is driven by product economics, not just bidding strategy True growth comes from aligning media spend with margin, pricing, and demand The next evolution of performance marketing is commercial, not tactical About the Guest Liam Patterson is the CEO of Bidnamic, a technology company focused on helping e-commerce brands unlock profit from Google Shopping through advanced optimisation of product-level data and bidding strategies. Resources & Links Learn more about Bidnamic: www.bidnamic.com/ (http://www.bidnamic.com/) Connect with Liam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-patterson/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-patterson/) Subscribe to Flipping the Playbook for more conversations with leading CMOs If this episode challenged how you think about performance marketing: Follow / Subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes Share this with your marketing or e-commerce team Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Flipping the Playbook is produced by SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency): https://salt.agency/ (https://salt.agency/)

4. 

   6 Apr 2026

   Clarity, credibility or chaos: Winning travel marketing in 2026, with Matthew Gardiner | 007

   In this episode, Matthew Gardiner, fractional CMO and former marketing leader at International Airlines Group (British Airways and Iberia), explains why most travel brands are still optimising for a funnel that no longer exists — and what needs to change as AI reshapes discovery, trust, and conversion. Matthew breaks down how travel planning is shifting from a linear journey into a conversational experience, where AI compresses inspiration, research, and booking into a single interaction. He explores what it takes for brands to be surfaced and recommended in these environments, why clarity of positioning and credibility signals matter more than ever, and how structured content influences visibility in AI-led journeys. He also explains why the biggest barrier to conversion is no longer inspiration but confidence, and how reducing decision friction can unlock significant commercial impact. The conversation also tackles one of the most persistent challenges in marketing: the perceived trade-off between brand and performance. Matthew argues that this is a false choice, outlining how brand investment acts as a multiplier for performance efficiency, and why many travel brands are underinvesting at a critical moment of market change. He also shares the signals CMOs should track to demonstrate brand impact, and what separates the teams that will adapt from those that won’t. This episode is essential listening for CMOs and marketing leaders in travel and ecommerce who want to understand how AI is changing search behaviour, how to stay visible in a world of conversational discovery, and how to build a marketing system that drives both demand and conversion. Matthew Gardiner is a fractional marketing leader and growth partner to travel brands and destinations. He has led global marketing functions within FTSE 100 organisations, including International Airlines Group, and advises businesses on brand strategy, performance marketing, and growth in rapidly evolving digital environments. Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional thinking and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin https://salt.agency/contact/ (https://salt.agency/contact/) Guest: Matthew Gardiner https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgardiner/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgardiner/)

5. 

   23 Mar 2026

   How to build, position, and scale a trust-based B2B company, with SeedLegals' Anthony Rose | 006

   In this episode of Flipping the Playbook, Reza Moaiandin sits down with Anthony Rose, co-founder of SeedLegals and creator of BBC iPlayer, to explore how one of the most complex and opaque processes in business — fundraising — has been fundamentally rethought. From simplifying legal complexity to building trust at scale, this conversation is a masterclass in identifying broken systems and rebuilding them around clarity, speed, and user needs. Follow Anthony on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anrose/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/anrose/) Please like, subscribe and share this podcast.

6. 

   9 Mar 2026

   How WineDrops optimised growth around one surprising behaviour metric, with Jonny Inglis |005

   In this episode, Jonny Inglis, co-founder of the wine platform Wine Drops, explains how to build a marketing engine driven by customer behaviour rather than campaign activity — and why focusing on a single metric can outperform dozens of performance dashboards. Jonny reveals how Wine Drops structures its entire growth strategy around one behavioural signal: whether a customer places their first order on day one. From high-volume creative testing and scrappy founder-led advertising to designing offers that attract high-value customers rather than cheap sign-ups, he explains how this approach shapes everything from marketing campaigns to product design. He also shares why cheap CAC often leads to the wrong customers, how pattern-interrupt creative outperforms polished campaigns, and why mastering one marketing channel can be more powerful than spreading budget across many. This is essential listening for CMOs and growth leaders trying to cut through marketing noise and build systems that prioritise customer behaviour, retention, and long-term value over vanity metrics. Jonny Inglis is the co-founder of Wine Drops, a private membership wine platform that gives customers access to trade-level pricing on some of the world’s best wines. The company has built its growth engine around data-driven experimentation, high-volume creative testing, and a product-led approach to customer acquisition and retention. Wine Drops has expanded rapidly in the UK and recently launched in the United States under the brand Case Drops. Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional wisdom and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin https://salt.agency/contact/ (https://salt.agency/contact/) Guest: Jonny Inglis, co-founder of WineDrops: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonny-inglis-4761b888/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonny-inglis-4761b888/)

7. 

   23 Feb 2026

   Creating Demand in a Commoditised Travel Market, with Lottie Norman | 004

   In this episode, Lottie Norman, VP of Brand Transformation & Strategy at The Travel Corporation, explains how to build commercially successful travel brands in an increasingly commoditised market — and why separating brand from performance is one of the biggest growth mistakes CMOs still make. She reveals why performance marketing converts demand but brand creates it, why legacy travel brands must shift from brand-led to consumer-led decision making, and how emotional storytelling — grounded in real experiences — becomes a strategic growth lever, not a creative luxury. From scientifically measuring happiness on youth tours to transforming a heritage brand like Trafalgar for the next decade, Lottie shares what it really takes to evolve without losing your soul. This is essential listening for CMOs navigating short-term performance pressure while trying to build long-term brand equity — particularly in categories where differentiation is shrinking and consumer expectations are rising. Lottie has spent over a decade operating at the intersection of brand, content, performance and transformation. She previously led marketing for Contiki and served as CMO of The Travel Corporation’s in-house marketing lab before stepping into her current role leading strategic transformation for Trafalgar. Her work spans global brand building, DTC acceleration, and embedding customer-centric thinking across large organisations. Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional wisdom and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin, Co-founder of SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency) https://salt.agency/contact/ (https://salt.agency/contact/) Guest: Lottie Norman, The Travel Corporation: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lottienorman/?originalSubdomain=uk (https://www.linkedin.com/in/lottienorman/?originalSubdomain=uk)

8. 

   10 Feb 2026

   Building affiliate programs that actually build revenue, with Adam Riemer | 003

   In this episode, Adam Riemer, marketing strategist and one of the most respected voices in affiliate marketing, explains how AI is reshaping the economics of performance marketing — from attribution chaos to a new citation-driven economy. He reveals why most affiliate programs waste budget instead of driving growth, explains how CMOs misunderstand top-funnel contribution, and shows how AI-powered content, coupon sites, and LLM-driven shopping experiences are already changing who really gets credit for revenue. This is essential listening for marketing leaders who want to protect margin, improve attribution, and build sustainable growth channels in an AI-first world. Adam has spent over a decade operating on both sides of the affiliate ecosystem — first as a seven-figure publisher, and now as an agency owner helping global brands design profitable, value-driven affiliate programs. He is a regular contributor to Search Engine Journal and Search Engine Land and is widely known for his practical, data-driven approach to growth marketing. Adam's website: https://www.adamriemer.me/ (https://www.adamriemer.me/) Connect with Adam on LinkedIn:   / adam-riemer-9623732   (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbXY1YkMyRnlWS3dGLW8wWmRHaHl1Y1ZUWUtmZ3xBQ3Jtc0ttT29PaDlobG9Pd0FnRU9NSjF4Ylp2Zi1GWFp3NzFER1NaZFEzdFBwQzByWThCekFnTDAxbWkzeXRaRFJvU0N4cWlTaVl0WUxDTWNfQUhKZmJXRXBSVTdScFpxaVVrLUdfOTNKeVFpcU00WFA5ZVVZWQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fadam-riemer-9623732%2F&v=A1pJuIckmsI) Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional wisdom and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin, Co-founder of SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency) https://salt.agency/contact/ (https://salt.agency/contact/)

9. 

   26 Jan 2026

   Shopify’s Thomas Cyr on the New Economics of Demand Gen | 002

   In this episode, Shopify’s Head of Global Pipeline, Thomas Cyr, shares how his team of five people accomplishes what used to require 30, thanks to AI-powered demand generation tools. He reveals the death of generic nurture streams, explains how to match lead source to intent at scale, and describes Shopify’s strategic evolution from focusing on new lead generation to engaging existing accounts and accelerating pipeline. This is essential listening for demand gen leaders trying to understand what elite teams are doing differently in the AI era. Thomas has spent five years building and scaling demand generation programs across multiple product lines at Shopify. Prior to Shopify, he built demand gen teams at Square and Brex. With nearly 15 years specialising in B2B marketing for tech companies, he’s now running a lean, AI-enabled team that accomplishes what traditionally required much larger organisations. Connect with Thomas on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomascyr/). Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional wisdom and navigating the transformation of marketing. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin, Co-founder of SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency) Leave Feedback: reza@salt.agency.com (mailto:reza@salt.agency.com)

10. 

    9 Jan 2026

    How to build a brand in a performance-obsessed world, with fractional CMO Alun Davies | 001

    Fractional CMO Alun Davies shares insights from his decades as a marketing leader, focusing on the challenges CMOs face in balancing short-term performance pressure with long-term brand building. He reveals why most companies misunderstand their ICP, explains the 95 percent problem in B2B buying behaviour, and offers practical advice for building brand awareness on startup budgets. Guest: Alun Davies is a fractional CMO and growth specialist working primarily with high-growth B2B tech and SaaS companies. With over 25 years of marketing leadership experience, he’s built go-to-market strategies for VC and PE-backed businesses, helped found a business development consultancy, and served as Global Marketing Director at Search Laboratory. He’s been using Google Ads since version 1 in 2001 and currently works with multiple clients while based in Leeds, UK. Connect with Alun Davies on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alundavies/). About Flipping Playbook: Flipping the Playbook is a podcast for CMOs in enterprise businesses, featuring conversations with marketing leaders who are challenging conventional wisdom and building scalable growth strategies. Hosted by: Reza Moaiandin, Co-founder of SALT.agency (http://SALT.agency). Leave Feedback: dan.c@salt.agency