by Lewis Ames and Wem Southerden
Wem Southerden & Lewis Ames have run Forest School and training centre Children of the Forest since 2017. The Forest School Podcast was born when they wondered if their daily wafflechats and reflections about pedagogy, play and nature connection might be of interest to others. The podcast aims to inform and support educators, parents, outdoor and play practitioners and anyone interested in nature and the outdoors. Through book reviews – interviews with experts, practitioners and authors – sharing our experience as educators and business owners – deep dives on fascinating topics –
Language
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Publishing Since
5/25/2018
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April 25, 2025
<p>🌿 What Is Clean Language & Should You Use It Outdoors?</p><p>In this introspective solo episode, Lewis reflects on Contempt to Curiosity by Caitlin Walker—an exploration of Clean Language, group metaphors, and truly non-judgemental communication.</p><p><br></p><p>What begins as a quiet Friday morning in the woods becomes a deeply personal and practical unpacking of:</p><p><br></p><p>What Clean Language actually is and where it came from 👂</p><p><br></p><p>Why exploring someone’s “inner world” is powerful—and risky</p><p><br></p><p>How metaphor can unify (or divide) groups 🌀</p><p><br></p><p>Practical uses of Clean Language in Forest School</p><p><br></p><p>Whether this approach is clunky-but-useful—or core practice</p><p><br></p><p>💬 Plus, Lewis shares a raw personal story of being on the receiving end of Clean Language coaching… and the surprising discomfort that followed.</p><p><br></p><p>🌟 Sponsors: TENTSILE & Chris Holland</p><p>🌲 TENTSILE – Create magical canopy spaces with TENTSILE’s world-famous hammock tents. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at www.tentsile.com</p><p><br></p><p>🍃 Chris Holland – Discover Nature Connection & the 54-Plant Guide—perfect for Forest School leaders. Use code FORESTPOD for 15% off at</p><p>👉 https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast</p><p><br></p><p>⏳ Episode Chapters</p><p>00:00 – Intro, birdsong, forest stillness 🌳</p><p>02:00 – Feeling isolated as a leader</p><p>04:00 – Housekeeping & community shout-out</p><p>06:00 – What is Clean Language? Who created it?</p><p>08:30 – Metaphors, coaching & autonomy</p><p>10:00 – The “clunky but useful” language tools</p><p>13:00 – Forest School Association anecdote</p><p>20:00 – What “Smell. Soil.” taught Lewis</p><p>27:00 – What Clean Language missed in his response</p><p>30:00 – Can metaphors create better group cohesion?</p><p>33:00 – Why Forest School needs shared metaphors</p><p>36:00 – Facilitating feelings, not just activities</p><p>40:00 – Cocktail bars & metaphor-building 🍸</p><p>44:00 – When “mycelial network” isn’t enough 🍄</p><p>47:00 – Clean Language as a practice addon—not a necessity</p><p>50:00 – Is this book for beginners or advanced practice?</p><p><br></p><p>📚 Mentioned in This Episode</p><p>Contempt to Curiosity by Caitlin Walker</p><p><br></p><p>David Grove’s Clean Language</p><p><br></p><p>Nonviolent Communication (NVC)</p><p><br></p><p>Forest School Association Strategy Weekend</p><p><br></p><p>Declarative language in outdoor education</p><p><br></p><p>“Mycelial Network” (metaphor bingo!) 🍄</p><p><br></p><p>💬 Join the Discussion</p><p>🌱 What metaphor would your Forest School group use to describe itself?</p><p>Do you already use metaphors in your practice—or avoid them entirely?</p><p><br></p><p>We’d love to hear YOUR stories. Drop us a message on social media or email [email protected]</p><p><br></p><p>🎧 Listen now:</p><p>🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI</p><p>📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs</p><p>📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF</p><p>💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9</p>
April 5, 2025
<p>🌳 Forest School vs the Panopticon: Who’s Watching the Children?</p><p>In this solo episode, Lewis dives deep into the haunting metaphor of the <strong>Panopticon</strong>—a 1700s prison designed for total surveillance—and how its legacy lives on in <strong>modern classrooms</strong>, school playgrounds, and even parenting styles.</p><p>⚖️ From architectural control to digital surveillance, Lewis explores:</p><ul><li><p>What “total observation” does to a child’s sense of self 👁️</p></li><li><p>Why today’s children may be observed from wake to sleep</p></li><li><p>The impact of surveillance on risk-taking, identity, and creativity 🎭</p></li><li><p>How Forest School sites can either <strong>replicate</strong> or <strong>resist</strong> the Panopticon</p></li><li><p>Practical ways to foster <strong>pockets of privacy</strong> in outdoor settings 🌲</p></li></ul><p>This is a big-thinking episode, inviting Forest School leaders, educators, and parents to ask:<br>💭 How much observation is too much? And what happens when we let go?</p><p>🌲 <strong>TENTSILE</strong> – Transform your site with TENTSILE’s innovative hammock tents. Perfect for Forest School adventures. Use code <strong>ForestChildren10</strong> for 10% off at <a href="https://www.tentsile.com" target="_new" rel="noopener">www.tentsile.com</a></p><p>🍃 <strong>Chris Holland</strong> – Discover Chris Holland’s 54-page Plant Guide – a practical tool for outdoor learning. Get 15% off using <strong>code FORESTPOD</strong> at our affiliate link: <a href="" target="_new" rel="noopener">https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast</a></p><p>00:00 – Intro & glorious sunshine ☀️<br>02:00 – What is the Panopticon? History & design<br>06:00 – Cuba, Castro & 3000 silences<br>08:30 – How schools mirror prison architecture<br>11:30 – Modern childhood as constant surveillance<br>14:00 – Should children be allowed privacy?<br>16:30 – When observation is helpful 👀<br>18:30 – Teachers feeling watched too<br>21:00 – Forest School vs classroom surveillance<br>24:00 – Instagram vs authenticity in outdoor play 📸<br>27:00 – Why privacy matters for relationships<br>30:00 – Class sizes, hedges & playground control<br>33:30 – What we give up in outdoor education<br>35:00 – Personal reflection & closing thoughts</p><ul><li><p>Jeremy Bentham’s Panopticon</p></li><li><p>The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read – Philippa Perry (referenced in context)</p></li><li><p>Sarah Ockwell-Smith episode on digital surveillance</p></li><li><p><a href="https://www.tentsile.com" target="_new" rel="noopener">TENTSILE Hammock Tents</a></p></li><li><p><a href="" target="_new" rel="noopener">Chris Holland’s Plant Guide</a></p></li></ul><p>💡 Do children need privacy to grow? Or does supervision help them feel safe?<br>Let us know your thoughts—comment on Spotify, YouTube or email us at <a href="" rel="noopener">[email protected]</a>.</p><p>🎧 Find us everywhere:<br>🎙️ Spotify: shorturl.at/4WdyI<br>📺 YouTube: shorturl.at/3qOUs<br>📻 Apple Podcasts: shorturl.at/FxfMF<br>💻 RSS: shorturl.at/A0kx9</p><p>#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ChildhoodSurveillance #Panopticon #NatureConnection #ForestSchoolPodcast #ChildLedLearning #EducationalPhilosophy #PlayPrivacy #SlowEducation #AlternativeEducation #SafeRisk #ForestSchoolDesign</p><p>🌟 Sponsors: TENTSILE & Chris Holland⏳ <strong>Episode Chapters</strong>📚 <strong>Mentioned in This Episode</strong>💬 <strong>Join the Conversation</strong></p>
March 22, 2025
<p></p><p>This week, Lewis is solo in the woods reflecting on a big question: what makes a Forest School site feel alive with history? 🌿<br>He explores the difference between <strong>groups that share memories</strong> and <strong>communities that carry history</strong>, drawing on stories, objects, rituals, and routines from nearly a decade of outdoor learning.</p><p>This episode is packed with practical reflections for Forest School leaders:</p><ul><li><p>How to foster a living sense of community through storytelling</p></li><li><p>The power of leaving evidence of past play</p></li><li><p>Why your site doesn’t need to be “tidy” to be effective</p></li><li><p>How to embrace rituals that evolve, rather than enforce</p></li><li><p>What it means to co-create history with children</p></li></ul><p>Whether you're building a new site or decades into your Forest School journey, this episode offers ideas to deepen your space’s soul. 🪵✨</p><p>🌟 Sponsored by TENTSILE & Chris Holland</p><p>🌲 <strong>TENTSILE</strong> – Hammock tents that transform your Forest School site into an unforgettable adventure. Durable, practical, and perfect for the outdoors. Use code <strong>ForestChildren10</strong> for <strong>10% off</strong> at <a href="https://www.tentsile.com" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">www.tentsile.com</a>.</p><p>🍃 <strong>Chris Holland</strong> – Enhance your nature knowledge with Chris Holland’s 54-page <strong>Plant Guide</strong>—a treasure trove for Forest School educators. Use <strong>code FORESTPOD</strong> for <strong>15% off</strong> at our affiliate link: <a href="https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast</a></p><p>00:00 – Wonky intros & mic experiments 🎤<br>02:00 – Rocking chairs, baby names & volunteer honouring<br>04:00 – School sites vs embedded Forest School sites<br>08:00 – The difference between group memories and community history<br>12:30 – Inheriting play, space markers, and unsaid rituals<br>18:00 – Nest building as evolving ritual 🌸<br>23:00 – What counts as ‘true’ history in a play space?<br>26:00 – Peer storytelling, deer legends & golden apples 🦌<br>30:00 – Objects as story prompts: woodworking tables, tree carvings<br>34:00 – Funerals for swings & retiring equipment<br>37:00 – History as inclusion: offering belonging through time<br>41:00 – The safety of being one story among many<br>43:00 – Co-creating history, not enforcing it</p><ul><li><p><a href="https://www.tentsile.com" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">TENTSILE Hammock Tents</a> – Use code <strong>ForestChildren10</strong></p></li><li><p>Chris Holland’s Plant Guide – Use code <strong>FORESTPOD</strong></p></li><li><p>Ben Edge episode on rituals (search “rituals” in our back catalogue)</p></li></ul><p>💬 Share your thoughts on social media or email <a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">[email protected]</a><br>🗣️ Send us a voice note via Instagram or Facebook!</p><p>Find us everywhere:<br>🎙️ Spotify: <a href="https://shorturl.at/4WdyI" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">shorturl.at/4WdyI</a><br>📺 YouTube: <a href="https://shorturl.at/3qOUs" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">shorturl.at/3qOUs</a><br>📻 Apple Podcasts: <a href="https://shorturl.at/FxfMF" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">shorturl.at/FxfMF</a><br>💻 RSS: <a href="https://shorturl.at/A0kx9" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow">shorturl.at/A0kx9</a></p><p>#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ForestSchoolPodcast #NaturePlay #GroupToCommunity #NatureConnection #CoCreatingHistory #StorytellingInTheWoods #PlayBasedLearning</p><p>⏳ <strong>Episode Chapters</strong>📚 <strong>Mentioned in This Episode</strong>🎧 <strong>Like what you heard?</strong></p>
Canopy & Stars
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BBC Radio 4
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The Simple Things
Heart
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Spiritland Creative
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Keep It Light Media / Spotify Studios
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