In this series, 39 Essex Chambers’ barristers, Katherine Apps KC and David Mitchell interview each other and guests exploring the legal issues raised by artificial intelligence including what sort of legal regulation is needed, how AI will impact on the legal profession, discrimination challenges, data protection, intellectual property and ownership, contracting issues and the impact on legal education in the future. Guest include: Baroness Shami Chakrobarti CBE, former shadow Attorney General, I Stephanie Boyce, former Law Society President, Bernie Maier, Michihiro Nichi Clifford Chance Japan, Professor Catherine Barnard, University of Cambridge, Patrick Brodie RPC LLP. The podcast series is suitable both for qualified lawyers and those who are curious about the law.
In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Tom Whittaker, Head of AI (Advisory) at Burges Salmon LLP about the uses and perils of AI in complex disclosure exercises. They also discuss the practicalities, challenges and legal issues involved with litigation about large computer systems and AI systems. They discuss some of the recent case law concerning inadvertent disclosure of privileged materials, Civil Procedure rules and international standards.
25 Sept 2025
Episode 16 - AI and the Courts
In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Saara Idelbi, a new member of 39 Essex Chambers about AI and the Courts. They discuss the recent Divisional Court (England and Wales) case of R(Ayinde) v the London Borough of Hackney [2025] EWHC 1383 (Admin) and guidance to the legal profession. They discuss what that guidance means in practical terms, and highlight the key regulatory and legal issues which arise when using AI for legal practice, both in the UK and internationally. They also discuss inherent features of generative AI, confidentiality, the “slop” problem, hyper-personalisation and practical steps that can be taken to understand the nature of AI in the context of its use both in legal practice and in the Courts.
15 May 2025
Episode 15 - Privacy in the age of generative AI
David Mitchell speaks to Dr Tom West (https://privacyinternational.org/people/5068/dr-tom-west) of Privacy International about the challenges which generative AI poses to individual privacy rights. In a wide-ranging discussion looking at the availability and efficacy of existing legal protections, Tom discusses the interventionist response of the Data Protection Authority in Italy to Chat GPT and DeepSeek, what privacy lawyers might glean from big tech competition disputes in the US and drawing on his own background, the lessons that environmental law might offer in terms of the regulation of generative AI.
2 Sept 2024
Episode 14 - AI and Online Harms
In this episode Katherine Apps KC discusses online safety and online harms with Jessica Zucker, Director in the Online Safety Group at OFCOM, the UK’s communications regulator. They discuss the nature of online harms and both the existing legal powers that apply to UK established Video Sharing Platforms, such as TikTok and OnlyFans. They also discuss Ofcom’s new powers under the UK’s Online Safety Act 2023 and key policy and legal considerations related to issues such as the spread of misinformation, freedom of expression, proportionality, and international convergence and divergence in regulatory standards and the need for those in tech and regulation to work together.
27 Jun 2024
Episode 13 - AI and the rise of deepfakery
In this episode David Mitchell speaks to Hanna Basha and Mark Jones of Payne Hicks Beach about tackling deepfakes on behalf of clients who are victims of different types of AI-generated deepfakes ranging from image based sexual abuse, commercial exploitation and political disinformation. Drawing on their respective expertise in civil and criminal law, Hanna and Mark discuss the practical issues posed by deepfakes, the legal tools available to victims and shortcomings in the current legal protections.
19 Apr 2024
Episode 12 - AI and Climate Change
In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with environmental law pioneer Stephen Tromans KC about similarities, differences and lessons which can be learned for AI from the development of environmental, nuclear, chemicals and contaminated land law. They touch on the balance between international and domestic legal toolmaking, the effectiveness, or otherwise, of human rights and the common law and how law can best work in the context of rapidly developing technology and complex market pressures.
13 Nov 2023
Episode 11 - The Clearview AI judgment: territorial reach and AI regulation
In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Jennie Thelen about the recent judgment of the First Tier Tribunal decision allowing Clearview AI’s appeal against the Information Commissioner’s fine for unlawful data processing for the development, marketing and use of AI software to “scrape” facial data from the internet and social media and for its use in facial recognition software. The Tribunal judgment is one of the first judgments in the EU to consider the scope of the GDPR territoriality provisions for personal data processing relating to monitoring of behaviour, and the carve outs for use in law enforcement by states and one of the first appeals to be heard against the fines levied on Clearview AI by multiple regulators across the world. Katherine and Jennie discuss extra territoriality more generally and the implications of the judgment for software which learns from worldwide data.
7 Nov 2023
Episode 10 - AI, Freedom of Expression and Civil Liberties
In this episode David Mitchell (https://www.39essex.com/profile/david-mitchell) speaks with Barbora Bukovska (https://www.article19.org/about-us/global-management-team/) from international freedom of expression organisation Article 19 (https://www.article19.org/) about AI, freedom of expression and civil liberties. David and Barbora discuss the recent European Court of Human rights judgment on the use of AI facial recognition on the Moscow Metro in Nikolay Glukhin v Russia (application no. 11519/20) in which Article 19 intervened, the proposed EU AI Act, and how other jurisdictions around the world are addressing facial recognition technologies.
20 Oct 2023
Episode 9 - AI and Intellectual Property
In this episode Katherine Apps KC speaks with Imogen Ireland, Senior Associate at global law firm, Hogan Lovells about AI and Intellectual Property law. Katherine and Imogen talk about who owns and creates AI generated material in copyright law and whether AI can create inventions that could be protected by patent law.
They discuss how these issues have arisen in recent cases and how the Courts’ analysis use concepts from other areas of law. They discuss the sorts of practical issue which arise when buying licenses of products which use AI and questions clients can ask so as to mitigate the risks and their predictions for the future.
18 Jul 2023
Episode 7 - AI and ChatGPT in Law firms
In this episode Patrick Brodie, Head of Employment, Engagement and Equality at law firm, RPC, discusses with Katherine Apps KC the issues raised by use of large language models (LLMs) such as ChatGPT in a law firm environment. Katherine and Patrick discuss what LLMS are, what firms need to think about when drafting AI policies, what LLMs could do in a law firm context, how AI will impact on the training solicitors of the future as well as wider reflections on the nature of being a lawyer, how we deal with fears, worries and opportunities posed by AI, working life generally, and what makes humans different from computers.
18 Jul 2023
Episode 8 - AI in Commercial Litigation Technology
In this episode Eimear McCann, Commercial Director at Trial view, discusses with Katherine Apps KC the uses of AI in commercial litigation software, both to mine large volumes of data and to generate answers, documents such as chronologies and help make commercial litigation more efficient. Eimear and Katherine also discuss the requirements of different Court rules and wider issues around protecting client confidentiality and what is different between working in the tech world and the legal world.
14 Jul 2023
Episode 6 - AI and Legal Education
In this episode Bernie Maier a visiting Professor of Law at Kings College London in Cyberlaw shares his thoughts with David Mitchell on whether the teaching and learning of law will be changed by generative AI and if so, how.
5 Jul 2023
Episode 5 - AI and the Law Podcast: AI and discrimination
In this episode Professor Catherine Barnard (https://www.law.cam.ac.uk/people/academic/cs-barnard/9), Professor of EU and Employment Law at the University of Cambridge discusses with Katherine Apps KC how discrimination claims could be litigated in the context of the use of AI. Catherine discusses existing case law on algorithmic determinations and how the elements of a discrimination claim could be demonstrated by a claimant or organisation. Catherine and Katherine also discuss potential defences and liability by companies and public authority for contractors’ software and how this is likely to be approached. Catherine also discusses the new proposal for an EU Platform Work directive and the structure used for regulation of algorithmic performance measures and whether it could become a blueprint used in other areas.
28 Jun 2023
Episode 4 - AI and the Law Podcast: The Japanese Perspective
In this episode Michihiro Nishi (https://www.cliffordchance.com/people_and_places/people/partners/jp/michihiro-nishi.html), a partner at Clifford Chance in Tokyo discusses with David Mitchell (https://www.39essex.com/profile/david-mitchell) his early experience of AI working as a lawyer in Silicon valley. Michihiro goes on to consider some of the current legal issues surrounding generative AI in Japan, including the lack of regulation and copyright protection which make Japan a “machine learning paradise” and pose a threat to the country’s creative industries including anime and manga. Michihiro also considers the reaction of the Japanese public to generative AI.
21 Jun 2023
Episode 3 - AI and the Law Podcast: Regulation and AI
In this episode Baroness Shami Chakrabarti CBE (https://www.39essex.com/profile/baroness-chakrabarti-cbe), former director of Liberty and former Labour Attorney General 2016-2020, discusses with Katherine Apps KC (https://www.39essex.com/profile/katherine-apps-kc) the sorts of law she thinks is needed to regulate AI and what can be learned from other areas of law. She discusses the UK Government’s White Paper on AI, principle based regulation and how her views have changed since receiving briefings on AI during her role in the House of Lords. Shami also talks about what sort of legal regulatory framework might be capable of being developed in the UK while an international consensus is being developed.
14 Jun 2023
Episode 2 - AI and the Law Podcast: Lawtech and the legal profession
In this episode Stephanie Boyce (https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/authors/i-stephanie-boyce), the former President of the Law Society of England and Wales, discusses with David Mitchell the ethical implications of generative AI upon the legal profession including the potential for unlawful bias in its application. On a practical note Stephanie considers how lawyers’ everyday practices might be affected by generative AI and from the point of view of court users, whether lawtech can promote access to justice when parts of the population are digitally illiterate and in regions of England and Wales, there is inadequate broadband coverage.
7 Jun 2023
Episode 1 - AI and the Law Podcast: Introduction
In this episode 39 Essex Chambers CEO introduces the podcast series. Katherine Apps KC (https://www.39essex.com/profile/katherine-apps-kc) and David Mitchell (https://www.39essex.com/profile/david-mitchell) talk about the issues they will be discussing with their guests about over this series. They also define what they mean by AI, types of AI and talk about how they have encountered AI in their practice areas: covering contractual disputes, procurement, public law, human rights, data protection, equality law, defamation and privacy law. Katherine and David also introduce and each try to answer a question they will be asking all of their guests.
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
Spotify
4.9 / 5
16 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 29 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
26
Social presence
0
YouTube
0
Engagement
82
Contact AI and the Law
Guest appearances
Books guests
Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.
Host of AI and the Law?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show Podcast research with Pod Engine
