Appalachian Outdoorosity

About Appalachian Outdoorosity

Appalachian State University is proud to present, Appalachian Outdoorosity, a podcast where you’ll hear stories that entertain, inspire and inform you about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness.

Publisher

Appalachian State University

Category

education · health & fitness · science

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

29 Apr 2022

Latest episode

29 Jan 2025

Latest episodes

14 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   29 Jan 2025

   Ep. 14 - Connecting Campus to Nature: The Journey of National Park Ambassadors

   On this episode, host Dr. Joy James sits down with Madi Heater and Nick Perkins, two passionate students from Appalachian State University who serve as National Park Trust College Ambassadors. As leaders of the App State National Park Trust Club, Madi and Nick share their journeys into outdoor recreation, their love for nature, and their mission to make the outdoors accessible to all students. From birdwatching and fishing to trail stewardship and caving expeditions, their experiences highlight the transformative power of outdoor engagement. Through their work, they not only foster a deeper appreciation for national parks but also build a thriving community of like-minded adventurers. This episode delves into their personal connections with nature, the challenges and joys of outdoor recreation, and the impact of their roles as ambassadors, inspiring others to step outside and explore the world around them. Show Notes Madi Heater, heatermp@appstate.eduNick Perkins, perkinsng@appstate.edu National Park Trust ClubTaught members how to fish (Price Lake), stewardship events, clean trails, caving expeditions (Worley's cave)https://parktrust.org/asu-college-ambassadors/https://www.worleyscave.co/ (Bluff City, TN)https://www.exploreboone.com/listing/price-lake/881/ (Blowing Rock, NC) Congaree National Park- Madi https://www.nps.gov/cong/index.htm Shenandoah National Park- Nickhttps://www.nps.gov/shen/index.htm Birding apps. Merlin & eBirdMerlin is based off of the calls that the birds giveeBird has a larger database https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/Merlin asks three questions about the bird (Size, Main Colors, and Behavior) It also can use the microphone on your smartphone to listen to and ID the bird's call as well as take a picture using the camera to ID the bird based on a photo.https://ebird.org/about/ebird-mobile/eBird makes it easier to log the locations of birds seen and shows hotspots of bird sightings by region and species. It seems to be less of an “identification” app and more of a GPS and locator app. Fishing App state health physical activity for fishing and fishing club https://engage.appstate.edu/organization/fly-fishing-club Some of the activities discussed in this episode like caving, hiking, and fishing are offered as classes herehttps://rmpe.appstate.edu/academics/pe-activity-program/course-descriptions How to join clubs is through “Engage” also remember that the National Park Trust Club is free and has no dues https://engage.appstate.edu/ Transcript Becki Battista: Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity, where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here, we will share Appalachian state stories that entertain, inspire, and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story, the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the HOPE Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play on the health, the environment, and human development. The vision of the HOPE Lab is to continue developing the foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Becki Batiste and I'm a professor in exercise science at Appalachian State University, and a self-proclaimed outdoor physical activity addict. I'm your host for today's episode of the Appalachian Outdoorosity Podcast. In today's episode, Dr. Joy James, a professor of Recreation Management, is joined by Madi Heater and Nick Perkins from the App State National Park Trust Club. They share their journey to becoming National Park College ambassadors, highlight some of the exciting activities they've organized as club leaders, and reflect on their experiences as ambassadors and their passion for engaging fellow students with the outdoors. Joy James: All right.

2. 

   23 Sept 2024

   Ep. 13 - Haley Toy & Gary Huey - Leave No Trace

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity podcast, host Dr. Joy James interviews Subaru Leave No Trace (LNT) traveling team members Hayley Toy and Gary Huey. The couple shares their personal journeys into outdoor recreation, how they became passionate about the outdoors through a college experience in Yosemite, and their current work educating people on minimizing environmental impact through the LNT principles. They discuss their favorite outdoor activities, challenges, and the importance of balancing personal and professional life while working full-time together. They emphasize that Leave No Trace isn’t about perfection but about being mindful of the environment and learning through experience.

3. 

   15 Jul 2024

   Ep. 12 - Grayson Smith - Journey Inward: Emotional Growth Through Outward Bound

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Dr. Joy James, a professor in App State's Department of Recreation Management and Physical Education, interviews App State graduate, Grayson Smith. Outward Bound plated a pivotal role in Grayson's outdoor and personal development. Throughout Grayson's time in the program they faced setbacks and challenges in the outdoors and learned with the help of a community to believe in themselves and persevere. Topics covered include building community, emotional vulnerability, the fun scale and the power of journaling. Show Notes Outdoorosity Team Email: podcasts@appstate.edu (mailto:podcasts@appstate.edu) Pronouns: they/him School email: smithgh@appstate.edu Instagram: ghsmith15 Outward Bound (https://outwardbound.org/) North Carolina Outward Bound (https://www.ncobs.org/) Blue Ridge Parkway Overlooks and Trails (https://www.blueridgeparkwayoverlooks.com/) Journaling Ideas (http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Nature-Journal) Transcript Becki Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire, and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story. The goal… to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by The Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on the health, environment and human development. The vision of The Hope Lab is to continue developing the foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Becki Battista. I'm a professor in exercise science at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed outdoor physical activity addict. I'm your host for today's episode of the Appalachian Outdoorosity Podcast. On today's episode, team member doctor Joy James, a professor in recreation management, interviews App State recent graduate Grayson Smith where they tell us how their Outward Bound experience inspired them, and they have come full circle working for Outward Bound. Joy Hi, I'm Joy here with Grayson. Thank you for joining us, Grayson. Grayson Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Joy If you could introduce yourself, kind of tell us where you're from and what your favorite outdoor activity is. Grayson Yeah. So my name is Grayson Smith. I use they/he pronouns, I identify as trans mask. I grew up in Raleigh. Atlanta until I was about six. And then Raleigh. I call Boone home now. I've been here almost five years. Oh, gosh. Favorite outdoor activity? There's so many things I could say. I've gotten really into climbing over the past few years. That was something that I used to be pretty scared of as a teenager. And, being in the rec program here at App has really helped me, reopen up to that, that activity and, kind of push those fears away. Joy Cool. Glad to hear that. How did you first get interested in the outdoors? Grayson So I went to a high school in Raleigh that required us to go on an outbound trip as freshmen. I had never heard of Outward Bound. I had never really. I never understood that there was an outdoor industry. I didn't really go hiking as a kid. I grew up in two major cities. two major capital cities. I just didn't. I wasn't really exposed to recreation until I got to high school and went on this Outward Bound trip with my freshman class, and I was the only student that enjoyed it. And I kind of kept that to myself. I was like, ooh, this bugs and camp. Ooh, gross dirt, you know? And everybody was like, like, this is so. I loved every second of it. It was my favorite thing. My instructors probably remember me being the only person that was excited about it. So from then on, from about the age of 14, I had the goal and passion for working for Outward Bound as an instructor one day which is crazy, because eight years later, here I am. I just had my interview yesterday for that position. So. Yeah. Joy I'm so excited for you. Grayson Yeah, it's going to be exciting. Joy Just in case some of our listeners don't know what Outward Bound is. How would you describe it? Grayson Outward bound. Oh, okay. Let me see if I can make this a short definition. Outward Bound to me is a community of people and a program that provides courses like backpacking courses. there's paddling, there's climbing, all integrated. Either it can be separately. It's like just a backpacking course or all those three things together, and then various other leadership skills, communication, self-reliance, mental health, just all the kinds of things that can help shape you and help you grow as a human. Outward Bound. They just really, really care about youth, and they really care about inspiring young people to connect with nature and, you know, connect and grow more into themselves. Joy Okay. Thank you. So it's something I can pay for. I can do semester-long, week-long activities. Grayson So the courses run, typically on average from 4 to 30 days. And then we do have like, 50 day outdoor educator course around that, number of days and then also a semester course. The cool thing about NCOBS which is North Carolina Outward Bound School, is they actually run programs in a couple of different states, which is, let's see, North Carolina, Florida, Virginia. We have got someone like the Outer Banks, like beach stuff, which is kind of cool. And then, the season actually just ended, and Table Rock, which is about an hour outside of Boone, near Morganton. And so that season ended on Halloween, October 31st. And, all the people are moving down to the Everglades in Florida which is really cool. The base camp is like on an island. I've never been, but I've heard really cool stories. Then they also run a semester course in Patagonia. So, you do a month there, a month in the Everglades and a month in the Blue Ridge Mountains. I'm not sure of the order. I think you've got, like, a day break. Like you've obviously you're flying. You might stay in a hotel or somewhere, like, you know, but, yeah, I mean, there's so many options. Joy And so when you were in high school, was it a week, like, how long was your course? Grayson Our course was three nights and four days. Joy And you got jazzed just from three nights and four days? Grayson My gosh, yes, it was. I mean, the bus ride. They're getting out of the bus. I mean, I ended up going on a course for 30 days. I applied, I think 2 or 3 months after I got back from that trip, which is in April so I applied over the summer, got accepted to my 30 day course in Oregon that October, and was there the next summer. Joy And remind me how old you were. For the first time in high school. Grayson I was, I had oh, actually, I might have been. No, I would have been 14 about to turn 15. Joy Okay. Yeah. And so then a couple months later, you go on a 30 day course. Grayson About a year later, I applied a few months later, and then about a year later I was in Oregon. Joy Okay. So Outward Bound has really been in your life since you're about 15? Yes. Okay. Cool. All right. So the next question we have here is what are your favorite outdoor activities. You've mentioned that you enjoy climbing. What other outdoor activities do you do or enjoy? Grayson Yeah. I really like backpacking, just generally speaking. It brings me a lot of joy to carry all my things around, even though it's really heavy and can be painful at times. I just find a lot of joy in the fact that I'm just like, ooh, where's my pen? Well, I know where it is. It's right here in my pocket. You know, like I have all my things right on my person. I can put my bed anywhere. I have beautiful views, you know, I'm with my friends. I can cook them a meal. Let's see, I took a paddling class. Let's see, was it last semester or the semester before with Grace Fortune, who works at UREC now. Grayson And, that was an amazing class. I had a lot of fun. Yeah. She's great. Yeah, we had a really great time. that really opened up my passion for paddling as well. That's also something that I'll hopefully be trained in, with Outward Bound, whenever that does happen. But yeah, kayaking would be my, my preferred paddling. Joy Are you thinking kayaking like whitewater or flat water or any of it? Grayson So I have some, some flat water kayaking experience. I grew up going to summer camp, so I learned a lot of it there. and then with that paddling class we were on, all flat water. We didn't get the chance to do any whitewater. I did go to the Whitewater Center in Charlotte while I was working with Outward Bound this summer. It was a little intimidating because, you know, it's intense there. It's, you know, it's like a real rapid situation. We went rafting before, and I fell out at the top of the run and, like, was swimming all the way down. And it was just so much. And I was like, I'm not going to do the whitewater kayaking today. Joy Did water get up your nose? Grayson Oh, I thought, I thought so many bad things were going to happen to me because I swallowed the water and I couldn't get out of it. It was just so funny. But type two fun would be that. That was my type two fun experience with some white water. Joy So our listeners may not be as familiar with type one. Type two can you kind of tell us what you mean by that? Grayson Yeah. So type one fun would be like, yeah, I just had a lot of fun. Like, you did an activity and you're like, that was super cool. That was really fulfilling. That made me really happy. Type two fun would be like, in the moment I'm really kind of scared. Or I'm like, what's the outcome going to be like? This is kind of really like a roller coaster, maybe like you're going up the roller coaster, you're freaking out. And then once it falls, you're like, woohoo! Joy Yeah. Grayson So, type two fun would be like, you look back on that moment when you were scared and you're like, but that was kind of fun though. Like, let's be honest, that was kind of fun. And then, type three is just like, nope, that wasn't fun at all. I don't want to do that again. I'm done. Yeah. Joy All right. Thank you for that explanation. How do you think you became comfortable in the outdoors, Grayson That's a good question. I think just growing up. So again, I didn't really have access to your typical recreation. I mean, I went on Outward Bound trips, which I was really, really blessed and privileged to be able to do that but I didn't have anything locally that I was really getting into as a kid. Joy And then how...were you involved with scouting? Grayson No, I worked for a Girl Scout camp, two summers ago, and that's really my only experience there. Even growing up at summer camp, it was still, you know, it wasn't like outdoors, the way that we think of it in the sense of, you know, this field. It was more just like your stereotypical summer camp activities, but I'd say just just I've always I've never not been interested in the outdoors.I feel like that's why this is a hard question for me to answer, because, I mean, as a kid, I was always, you know, digging up worms in the backyard and playing in the dirt and, you know, collecting acorns and burying them for squirrels because I thought that they would come in and then get the nuts, you know, just just things like that. I've always just had a passion for all sorts of critters and nature and everything. Joy So was there any, like, friends or adults or really, it sounds like those were foundational, but then Outward Bound really kind of pushed you in this kind of adventure. Grayson So I would say there's two people that would be notable in my Outward Bound journey, which would be Stiles Rader. She actually went to my high school, which I won't name, but she did go to my high school and we applied to, like, all the same colleges. Joy And she was here. Grayson She was here. She went to App. She worked a lot with Jerry Cantwell. That's how she got to Outward Bound. Yeah. I actually went to her house for, like, an Outward Bound alumnae meeting one time, and I was the youngest student. Or, like, you know, I, I was the one that had been on a course most recently. So that was super exciting for all of the people that we're like from the 70s and 80s on their courses. So yeah, Stiles was a really big inspiration for me because once I figured, I mean, we don't even really know each other that well, but just knowing that there was a person that came out of my high school that, you know, now is and the outdoor industry was really, really cool. And I actually went back to Outward Bound as a senior because I had to do it like an internship or a capstone project my senior year of high school. And I just loved it so much that I was like, I need to go back, I need to go do this. Stiles wrote me a little note on a chocolate bar and was like, you've got this. I was a student mentor, so I obviously wasn't an instructor. You know, I'm in high school. But, you know, they let me lead some, like, evening circles and teach some lessons and yeah, you know, they definitely stepped in a lot because this was five years ago almost. Joy See how much you've grown. Grayson I know, and it's so crazy now because the person that I was in contact with about being a mentor for the freshmen when I was a senior was Whitney Setser, who I text now regularly. We’re both Boygenius fans, big Swifties and she still works for Outward Bound and does the same. So I actually might be going back with her, at the end of this year or beginning of next year, maybe spring to talk to the freshmen at Saint Mary's. Joy It just sounds like this community of yours just started building in 2015. Well not in 2015 but when you were 15 and you had no idea. Grayson No, it was! It was 2015! Joy Oh it was?! Ok! I made a good guess. Grayson Yeah. And, yeah, it's crazy. And I remember, I got to all-staff training. Let me mention this. So there are...there's several, base camps, like I said, the Everglades and then in North Carolina, we've got the Outer Banks and then the two, that I'd say are more well known would be Table Rock and Cedar Rock and Cedar Rock is near Brevard for location context. So we were down at Cedar Rock, and I was introduced to Whitney, who I thought I was being introduced to and then I was like, your name sounds really familiar. Like, do you, you know, like, I have been on I've been with Outward Bound, whatever. And we figured out that she was working with my high school. I texted her the other day, I was like, did you see this thing that Taylor did? And, you know, do we have fun? Joy Yeah. Well, I think that the fun thing for me to think about this for you, Grayson, is that imagine the influence you're having on other people. Like you're just part of this chain now of influencing people who come into the Outward Bound community into ways that you're not going to be able to imagine. Grayson I know, and that's something that I think about so often. And the main reason, really, why I want to be an instructor is because of the impact my instructors had on me over the years. I mean, I would not be anywhere near the human that I am right now without Outward Bound and without that community. Joy Understood. So this next question, you've kind of been answering it, but I'm going to kind of direct in a different way. So that next question is tell us a story about an outdoor experience that has influenced you. So it could be a funny story. It could be a lesson learned story. Do you have anything like that you'd be willing to share with our listeners? Grayson I do, so let's see if I can recall this. Well, so this was, let's see, July of 2016. I was in Oregon. I had been on my course for a little over two weeks...maybe even three at this point. We were going to summit a peak and it was Broken Top in the Three Sisters Wilderness and oh my gosh, the most beautiful place, really, that I've ever been. I love Oregon so much. And so that morning we wake up. I'm pretty stoked. You know, it's early. It's like four. Sun's not up yet. Whatever. There's snow and ice on the ground. We'll figure it out. We've got this. So we pack up our things and we get going and it was probably the most terrifying experience of my entire life. The way up there, I was, like, freaking out panic attack mode. Like, not... Joy Type three fun? Grayson Yes. I was like, get me out of here. I don't want to be here. This is not. And, you know, my instructors at the time, they were pushing me because they thought that I was in my comfort zone of like, okay, I'm uncomfortable, but I can do this. But I was in a panic. Right? And they later were like, we're sorry that, you know, we didn't recognize that. But back to the important part of the story. So we finally make it up there. I was freaked out the whole time I get to the summit, I barely remember it. I remember, like, looking around and just being like, get me off this mountain right now! Like. And I was like, 16. Oh, my. It was a no-cussing course. And I was like get me the f... like, no, like, I need to leave right now. So I get down off the summit. I'm not in the picture with all of my crew mates. They have a picture together. I'm not in it because I was like, get me away. I mean, we had like hand lines. Joy Was it the height? What was freaking you out. Grayson It was the height without safety. I'm not really afraid of heights like I've been in planes. I've been on roller coasters you know, but it's when I don't have railings or anything. You know, then you're like, Joy High Risk. Grayson Very high risk. And, like, I mean, I'm looking down this steep, steep, icy, snowy hill to an opening of jagged rocks that probably drops like 100ft down. I'm like, I don't want to fall into that. Please, can we go somewhere else? So my crew ended up, after, you know, everybody celebrated being at the top. We had some lunch and we started the trek down and I just couldn't do it. I mean, walking down this slippery slope, like, rocks, ice, snow. I was just, like, not about it. So one of my instructors stayed back with me and the rest of my crew and my other instructor just, you know, they were all like, we're good to go. We're just going to walk down, which was a little embarrassing for me. You know, I was 16 at the time. I was one of only two women on that course. So it was already kind of like a weird situation and we're hiking down and I was, again, just freaking out the whole time. And my instructor was like, all right, here's what we're going to do. Come here. And again, like I said, this was a no cussing course. Okay. We're in. We're on the side of this mountain trying to get down it. No one else is in sight. Joy What's the altitude? Just to give us perspective. Grayson I don't think it was. It might have been a 12. It's not it's not. It's less than 14. Joy Ok. That’s still significant. Grayson It's definitely significant. And especially when you're there you're like, oh yeah I'm on this mountain. So we're so we're there. We're like not even halfway down. And he's like come here. Like we're going to do something. And I was like, okay. And he's like, come over here and here's what we're going to do. You're going to scream your name, but you're going to scream it like this. And then he screams his name and he goes, (I'm going to say my name first). But he goes, my name is Grayson Smith. And I'm so awesome and made me scream this into the void of the wilderness. And I was like, I was like, please don't make me do that. He's like, we're doing it. He's like, I'll go first. So he goes first. And then I was like, Okay. Grayson And I did it. And I was like, oh. And I just...I look back on that moment a lot and I later found out that that was his first course as an instructor. Joy Oh, wow. Grayson Which really, really has stuck with me now that I'm, you know, looking on that path and, it's just it's just crazy to think how little this one sentence that my instructor made me say to just be like, get out of your head for a second. Let's just cuss it out. You know? I'm like, let's just do something fun and different for a second. And of course, I'm like, no, please don't make me. And I did it. Joy It changed? Like, were you able to continue down or just? Grayson It still was a hard trek down, but I definitely felt more capable. And, I mean, I would say that looking back, probably in that moment, I was like, oh, that was stupid. Now I still have to go do this. But looking back, that was so Joy A very powerful moment. Grayson It was a very powerful moment. Yes. Joy Well, cool. Thank you for being willing to share that with us. Yeah. Becki Today's episode is proudly sponsored by the Hope Lab. At the Hope Lab we're committed to finding creative ways to promote outdoor activity. Visit appstate.hopelab.edu to explore the myriad of benefits of spending time outdoors. As we listen to Grayson, you can hear how important the Outward Bound community is to helping them explore their outdoor interest, not only being mentored by Stiles and then becoming a mentor themselves it’s important to their development as an outdoor leader, wasn't it interesting to hear how the Outward Bound instructor helped Grayson move through their uncertainty? The instructor changed Grayson's headspace through empathy and activity. While it was still difficult, the instructor and Grayson shared a powerful moment. Grayson's insights shed light on a powerful concept embracing discomfort and vulnerability in the outdoors. They highlight the importance of overcoming personal barriers and sharing vulnerabilities, which, though challenging, can foster bonds and personal growth. Let's get back to the interview with Grayson. Joy So, these next questions are kind of like we're trying to help our podcast listeners who may not be comfortable in the outdoors but they aspire to it. So it's kind of like...we want to get the dirt on being outside, like some of your perspectives. So what's your biggest fear about being in an outdoor setting? Grayson The dark. I love the stars, and I love how it feels when I'm, like, all cuddled up in my tent. But if I have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, no thank you. Especially when you're in areas that have wild animals. Joy Even with a flashlight and everything? Grayson It's just that I have a lot of anxiety. I'm like, something's going to come out of the woods. Something's going to happen. Nothing has ever happened, right? Nothing ever really happens. Like the animals are scared of you, you know, I mean, I literally... Joy It doesn’t help your anxiety, though. Grayson No it doesn't. You know, I'm just like, what was that noise? What was that twig snapping? Like, something's coming...but yeah, I just, I think, yeah, I mean, you have your headlamp, you've got your people for the most part. I guess it would be more if I was on a solo trip. I would be freaked out if I were to hear something. Joy I take it that caving is not an option. Grayson Well, actually, you'd think, I have been caving a couple times. The first time was very scary. Luckily, I had my friend Bronwyn Player with me who we went through this program together, so we got through it with some laughs. Definitely some type two fun. Then I went back again and had such...a much better experience and loved it a lot. I would totally go again. I don't think I could guide, but I definitely enjoy caving, which is interesting that you point that out. Maybe it's like the open woods. Joy There's critters in the cave, but it's not the same. Grayson It’s not yeah, there's like bats and little things. Joy There are the noises that are occurring or drips and yeah, whereas I can totally see like the first time I did tarp tent, I've always done tents. And so about ten years ago, Jerry Cantwell said, here, just use this tarp for backpacking. It'll be lighter weight for you. I was taking my nephew and I was like, paying attention to everything. But it's funny because a tent is no different. Grayson It's really not. Joy But there's something about being able to see. And I'd wake up and I look out. Whereas a tent, I would be like, ohh there’s nothing and I’d go back to sleep. Grayson You’re in a house. It’s your little tent. It's got four walls. You're protected. But really you're not. Joy You’re not. Grayson It's the same material. It's all the same. So it's really a mindset I think of just like, all right, nothing's going to happen. And if something happens, it's not because a bear comes out of the woods and bites my head off, that's not what's going to happen. You know? Joy Right. Although I think you bring up a really good point that I think a lot of people struggle with, like there's this intellectual knowledge, I know, I mean, there's going to be some danger, but really, that the bears bite my head off and I've got some protection. The chances of that happening are very low unless I'm out west with grizzlies. Grayson Right. Joy And yet my emotional state or my anxiety still will play tricks with me. And so it's the frame of mind that I've got to get myself into. And another experience I had, we had a bear that came along, a beach that I was at, and I was with the ranger. It was in Alaska. Grayson Okay? I was like, a bear on the beach. That’s cool. Joy I was just walking to the beach. Turned out it was a black bear, but we didn't know this because it was dark. Like you're saying. I was sitting on a boat, just kind of looking at the stars, and I saw something walking, and I thought it was a man at first, because that's what your mind goes to. But then you're in the middle of Alaska. So anyway, I started yelling out what I’m supposed to do. Hey, bear, bear and the bear did what it was supposed to. It turned around and took off. Yeah, but my ranger who was up in the tent, she's like, what is happening? I'm like, well, I just saw a bear. And so she kept me awake till 1:00 in the morning with the gun between us, because, you know, you have...and I was like, well, the bear's gone now. Why are we still awake? But I had freaked her out, you know. So again, intellectually....and she was the ranger. I was just volunteering. So it is an interesting dynamic that the dark can play havoc. And so how do I reframe myself so that I can sleep or do whatever I need to do? Grayson Now that you've brought up the beach, I'm just thinking of I also really don't like murky water. Murky water also. It's when I don't know what's there. That's my problem. And so I also try to think about well, I go, I go in the ocean, I go swimming in the ocean. There's terrifying animals in the ocean. Sharks come up to the shore all the time. Joy You know, you see those waves? The pictures now of them in the waves with people surfing. Grayson Yeah. And they just and they're you know, I mean things do happen very rarely but... Joy So murky water like swamp or lake. Grayson Like a lake, I really struggle with getting in a lake. I like a river. But the lake with like the still and it's dark and it's icky looking, but, no. Yeah, I would say that thinking about if somebody does have kind of that similar fear of like, I don't know what's out there, what's going to happen and also goes swimming in the ocean or it's been to the beach. I sometimes think about that. And I'm like, these animals are minding their own business. Let me just mind my own business. Joy That’s a good way to put it, Grayson. You brought up something else that research shows you're not alone in that murky water idea, and that people who've only swam in swimming pools are less likely to enjoy outdoor recreation, like paddling or swimming at the ocean because they can't see what's at the bottom. So that's one of the things, as a recreation professional, I've been trying to figure out. How do I get people more exposed to these murky environments? Grayson That’s such an interesting thing because the summer camp that I grew up going to, we had, a swim lake. We didn't have a pool. And so it was like sand and mud and murky and seaweed growing on the bottom. And I, I don't know, I never as a child, I never had those fears. I think maybe it's just now that I have, like you're saying, the knowledge that there are things that could happen to me. I'm not just like this kid with all of my like, whoa, like, oh, just do whatever I want, you know? Now I know that there's things that could happen. And, you know. Joy I'm just, frankly, grossed out by touching the bottom of a lake. Grayson Yeah, I know I'm like ewwwww. Joy You know, and again, intellectually, I know it's fine. Grayson Nothings wrong, it's just like, ewww. Joy If I put my Chacos on, I'm good. You know? Grayson Touching the bottom of the lake for me, that’s what gets me. Joy All right. So what is the most embarrassing outdoor moment you may have had? Grayson I want to have to...I don't even know. I have to think on that one. The ones that are coming to mind right now, I feel like aren’t embarrassing in reality. But were embarrassing for me. Joy That's fine. Grayson Well, But it was like when I was on my senior expedition, I was just having, like, this breakdown, and it was just a really vulnerable place to be. it wasn't so much as embarrassing as it was, just like I'm crying in front of all of my peers right now and freaking out and I don't know why, and I can't control it. In that situation, you know, everybody was able to be like, what can we do for you? And I didn't know them super well, except for Bronwyn, and, yeah, it was just, I mean, I wouldn't even say embarrassing. I would just say just a lot emotionally. Very vulnerable, you know? And sometimes that's what happens, you know, when you're in these groups. I mean, that was on our first day. We only did one night on this on our capstone trip with Jerry. It was the first night. I was just freaking out. And it happens, you know, and and when those things do happen and you're like, I want my mom or I want my sister, or I want my best friend, or I want my dog, you know, whatever it may be, you don't have those things. You've got your people right here. And even though that was like so uncomfortable for me I was like all right well this is happening. I'm sitting over here in the corner crying by myself. We're in a group like we're in a circle. I'm hysterically sobbing. No one is saying anything. And I was like, just so you guys know, like, I'm not doing so well right now. And it took me so long to get there because I'm just embarrassed, you know? I didn't know these people very well. Most of them were men. I don't really interact with men too much. I went to the all girls camp growing up, all girls high school, all girls dorm floor my freshman year, and now I'm trans. So I just, you know, it's a lot of hesitation for me already. And I think being in this industry, accepting the uncomfortable and the vulnerable moments that happen can just, I don't know, I feel like I don't even know if I've been embarrassed because it's just moments like that where I'm like whew. Joy Well, you're bringing up some really great things that I think our listeners also experience, right? Like if I'm having an emotional breakdown in the middle of something in front of a group, that may prevent me from wanting to do it in the future. So this idea of trying to work through uncomfortable situations and knowing that people have your back and that it's like you said, it just is. I was freaking out, I was crying. Joy And yet and yet you still keep going back. Grayson Oh, yeah. Joy You still keep putting yourself out there. And I think that's a key thing to getting comfortable in the outdoors is if I can't get myself out there and I have fear and risk, I'll never go do anything because there's bears or because I can't pee in the woods or because I'm going to have an emotional...I might have an emotional moment. So you characterized it well. It’s being uncomfortable. Yeah. As opposed to embarrassing at the same time. There is a shame. Like, sometimes I feel an internal shame. Grayson I definitely felt shame and you know, I'm. I'm sitting here being very vulnerable. You know, stereotypically, males aren't really raised to express their emotions in that way. And I think that this industry has done a really good job of kind of reopening that and being like, why is this happening? Let's really talk about our feelings and like, it's okay to have feelings. I think just, you know, it's hard, it's hard to, to be vulnerable and to...I have trouble crying in front of my roommate and best friend, you know, and, I think a lot of people struggle with that. Joy And then you're in the middle of woods with people you don't know, and you're crying. Grayson It’s dark. There could be a bear ten feet that way. And I'm having a panic attack in front of my professor. Joy Sorry, I'm not laughing. Grayson No, it's not what it is. It's type two funny is what it is. It's just funny like, you know, and I look back on that and I'm like, I really was not okay. And then...But I am okay. Joy Yeah. Grayson I'm fine, you know. And actually, funnily enough, that happened at the campsite that I was at as a freshman on an Outward Bound course because we were on base for this trip. so I was literally in the area that I discovered my passion for this, and I was like, oh, I want to go home. Don’t make me stay here! Joy Well, thank you for sharing that. I think that's the key thing is the vulnerability and and recognizing the emotional turmoil that you may be going through as you're struggling and persevering through something that can be uncomfortable. or challenging. Grayson Yeah. It can be really bonding for a group, too, you know, obviously that was a really big struggle for me. But, you know, the next morning we came together and were able to make some decisions that needed to be made. And we all, you know, were just like, if one person is uncomfortable, let's come up with a new plan. Let's come up with a new idea or a new route to take. Joy Yeah, yeah. Cool. Okay. This is going to change the tone a little bit. What is a must have piece of outdoor gear or equipment? Like you could never leave home without it. What can’t you live without in the outdoors? What would you like... You're kind of like...You're going. You've got to take it. Grayson Journal and the pen. Joy Tell me more. Grayson I have filled up so many journals from my time on Outward Bound and in the outdoors. It's just so even if I'm just like today we had oatmeal with raisins. Then we hiked ten miles. Now I'm tired, you know, just like. Right? I love looking back through those journals and I try to get really detailed with how I'm feeling. You know, sometimes I don't have time. I always like to write a little something down. But, I mean, I open up those journals from 2015, 2016, my letters to myself from whatever. And, I can see, like the mosquito that I slapped still there from five years ago, you know, like, it's just cool. It's just, you know. Joy That’s very cool. Grayson And I feel like my experiences are just in this little book. Joy Does it bring back the emotional part? When you're like, when you are reading some of the stuff. Does it bring you back to where you are? Grayson It does. Yeah. and, you know, on both of my longer courses. So I went on the 30 day in Oregon when I was 16, and then I went on a 14 day in California in July of 2021. I think I was 20, maybe I just turned 21. One person on both of those courses had to be evacuated for completely different reasons. One of them was mental health related, and it was really, really hard. And I wrote all about it in my journal. And sometimes I look back on that and I'm like, wow, like that happened. And you know, that happened to that person. And that also happened to me. you know, there's just a whole lot of emotions in there. And also it's really, really cool to see the growth and myself, you know, at the time, I was going by a different name, different pronouns, you know, and I didn't know that, that that was, you know, not who I was. And I always had kind of felt uncomfortable but just looking back at those journals and, you know, I would do little drawings on my solos and I can see and I am I do, I do some art. I did a lot of art in high school. And so, like sketching my little like, you know, we have solo reflection time for 20 minutes, and I sketch my view and I go back and I look at that and I'm like, I remember that view, you know? So I guess that's not even really like technical gear. That's just...but I Joy No. But it's a must have. Grayson It is a must have. Yeah, it's definitely a must have. Joy I can appreciate that. I was going to ask you about if you did art. So I'm glad you expanded a little bit because there's research out there on journaling and it's power for learning and then connecting and then seeing the growth. So I appreciate you sharing that as your must have. Last question for you is what's your favorite local spot in Boone to go be in the outdoors? Grayson I've found a lot of little spots on the Blue Ridge Parkway. They’re secret spots. Joy Okay, you can keep it secret. Grayson However, I will say if you drive the parkway even like ten minutes down and you see a little gravel pull off, you can find a waterfall, you know, like, so I've. I mean, there's a bunch of little waterfalls and creeks that I found that are definitely not unknown to the public, but, I couldn't even tell you if I wanted to, because I don't I couldn't. It would be like a coordinate thing. I would say if you drive up and down the Blue Ridge Parkway, you can find a lot of good spots that are kind of secluded, and you can bring out your journal or a book and read by a little waterfall and skip rocks. Yeah, the parkway is definitely where all of my spots are. Joy That's why I like the parkway, too. Like you say, it may not be secret, but it feels secret when you're there. You're away from... Grayson It feels secluded and you can, like, go up to an overlook and there's a trail that, you know, where does this go? Who knows? You know. And then you find something and then you remember where it is. And I'm like, I'm going to go back there next week and read my book. I think it's just really about exploring what we have out here. Boone is just such a great place to explore nature and get connected to that community. Joy Absolutely. Well, what I'll do for our listeners is I'll put a link in to, North Carolina Outward Bound. Grayson Yeah. For sure. Joy If they wanted to get into it, is it best to take a course first or go work for them? Grayson So I will say, I worked there's a logistics coordinator last season, and there were a few of us that had been on a course prior and a few of us that hadn't. And I will say that the people that had definitely were a lot more aware of how important our job was and how we really needed to be on top of things. Not that the other people weren't. It was just like, I know what they are doing out there. I know how stressful it can be. So me being here on time with this water and this food is like so important. I can't say that it's, you know, that you should or you shouldn't because it's, you know, it's an expensive activity. Joy It is. Grayson There are scholarships and things. But I would say if somebody is looking to be an outdoor educator and has like, nothing, no experience at all, taking an outdoor educator course or even just going on a normal, even just a week, you know, just kind of getting a taste of what it is or just going and backpacking with your friends or going camping even like at Price Lake. You know, it doesn't have to be so crazy. But, yeah, I mean, there's people at Outward Bound that majored in finance, you know, and I, I asked somebody once, I was like, oh like, what did you study in school? He said, accounting and finance. I was like, well that's okay. Like how did you get here? He's like, well, I just didn't like it. I like this better. Like cool. Like, you know, it's just everybody is from everywhere and it's really cool to be a part of it. Joy It's such a great point. So Grayson, thank you for your time today. We look forward to seeing what you do in the future with Outward Bound. Grayson Yeah, I appreciate it. Becki Participating in an Outward Bound course offers a valuable opportunity to cultivate skills and forge connections with fellow outdoor enthusiasts. One noteworthy aspect we'd like to spotlight is Grayson's essential outdoor companion. Their journal, a nature journal, serves as a record of observations and reflections distinct from a traditional diary. Through nature journaling, we can deepen our understanding of the natural world and gain insights into ourselves. Consider taking up nature journaling. It's a journey of discovery, waiting to unfold both in nature and within yourself. As we wrap up the interview, we want to share some resources for you. Check out this episode's notes page for resources on our bound, the fun scale, and journaling. We extend our heartfelt gratitude to Grayson for sharing their invaluable insights and stories with us. The Appalachian Atrocity Podcast is the brainchild of Melissa Weddle, Becki Battista, and Joy James. Special thanks to our dedicated podcast producer, Dave Blanks from App State University Communications for his exceptional work behind the scenes. If you would like to reach out to us, you can reach us at podcasts@appstate.edu. We leave you with the following quote. The greatness of a community is most accurately measured by the compassionate actions of its members. Coretta Scott King.

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   13 Feb 2024

   Ep. 11 - Mary Bowman - A Rec Management Podcast inside a Podcast

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Dr. Joy James, a professor in App State's Department of Recreation Management and Physical Education, interviews App State graduate, Mary Bowman. While a student, Mary created a podcast called "Mumbling Mountaineer Minutes," wherein she explored Student Perceptions of Physical Activity Incorporated into Science Lessons. Listen to this podcast within a podcast as Mary interviews herself. This episode has so many levels. Show Notes Mary Bowman, She/Her Graduated Spring 2023 from App State with a degree in Recreation Management (https://rmpe.appstate.edu/) Worked at Outdoor Programs (https://urec.appstate.edu/outdoor-programs) for the Outing Center Was involved in Venture Scouts (https://www.scouting.org/programs/venturing/) Worked at Boy Scouts of America Philmont Scout Ranch (https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/) Completed her Recreation Management and Physical Education Department Honor’s Thesis “A Pilot Study: Student Perceptions of Physical Activity Incorporated into Science Lessons” in collaboration with the HOPE Lab (https://hopelab.appstate.edu/) As a part of her RM Senior Seminar, she completed a podcast on her thesis and this is what this episode is about. Transcript Becki Battista Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity, where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share App State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on health, the environment and human development. Becki Battista The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Becki Battista. I am a professor in exercise science at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed outdoor physical activity addict. Becki Battista I'm your host for today's episode of the Appalachian Outdoorosity Podcast. On today's episode, team member Dr. Joy James, a professor in recreation management, interviews her former recreation management student Mary Bowman. This is a different take for our podcast where we highlight Mary's RMPE Departmental Honors thesis. She worked on a project with the Hope Lab team. Then, as part of a class project, she created a podcast about her research. Becki Battista When Joy heard the podcast, she knew we had to highlight it here on Appalachian Outdoorosity. Joy James So, it's Joy James here on Outdoorosity. We're so excited. Our guest is Mary Bowman, who's a recent graduate from Appalachian State University in recreation management. So, I'm going to let Mary kinda introduce herself. Both of us are having trouble because we giggle a lot. So, listeners, be prepared for that. So, Mary, if you'll introduce yourself and tell us where you're from and what your favorite outdoor recreation activity is. Mary Bowman I am Mary Bowman. I am from Cary. So, Mary from Cary. I just graduated from App in May. Went there because at the time I was undecided and thought that I could really get a good kinda liberal arts experience. I found recreation management and just fit right in. Yeah, my favorite recreational activity is backpacking. I haven't done it in a while. Mary Bowman Work is really taking it out of me, but I’m really happy to get back into it in the coming season. Joy James Mary, share with us what you're doing for work too. I think that's interesting. Mary Bowman Yeah, I am working at Grandfather Mountain Stewardship Foundation as an environmental educator. We get groups at the mountain that are school groups, but also just some other groups that come and we do some environmental education. So, programs going outside as much as we can. Joy James Cool. I know it's a cool job. I love Grandfather. Mary Bowman Yeah, me too. Joy James Tell us how you first got interested in the outdoors. Like what experiences is or what's a story that you would be willing to share that helped you kind of realize the outdoors was a path that you wanted to pursue, both personally and professionally. Mary Bowman Yeah. So, I am the only daughter with two older brothers who are actively involved in scouting, and I would always tag along on a bunch of their trips, especially when my dad became a scoutmaster. And so, I kind of was an honorary scout when I was a kid and tried my hand at Girl Scouts. And it wasn't the path that really called to me. Mary Bowman And so, when I was old enough, I joined Venture Scouts and which is a high adventure coed, youth led form of scouting and really, really just found my calling there. I did Sea Base. I did Philmont. I did Northern Tier during the winter. So, I did all of the extremes. I was super-hot. I was super cold. I was very tired the entire time. Mary Bowman But I found when I was doing that, especially as I age up within the crew, that I loved when we got new scouts in and I had to kind of guide them through everything and like start like, this is how you camp. This how you set up a tent. This is the best way to leave, no trace, all this kind of stuff. I realized I could make a profession out of it by going to national parks and seeing the interpretive park rangers I was like, Joy James Yes, please sign me up. Cool! At Outdoorosity, we haven't really talked to people who've come up through the scouting movement, let alone Boy Scouts and venture scouts. Before the Boy Scouts kind of accepted both girls and boys. And would you say Boy Scouts is where you learned how to backpack, or were you backpacking before that? Mary Bowman It was because of scouting that I learned how to backpack. My dad would kind of take our family to scout out the trails that they would go out with the scouts. So, we did it. We did a few trails like that, but it was really once I started getting into scouting myself and when we needed to go to Philmont and do all of those prep hikes that I really kind of fell in love with backpacking. Joy James I could talk about this a longer time. Unfortunately, I can't talk to you longer because I brought you on this podcast to help showcase an assignment that you did as part of a class you were in with me. And also, Mary did her departmental honors thesis with the Hope Lab, who's a sponsor of Outdoorosity and also part of the assignment that I had in the class was to do a podcast, and Mary was brilliant and she combined her research for her honors thesis with some of the work that she was doing and this other class with me. Joy James And one of these assignments was to create a podcast and this podcast was so good and it really kind of showcases not only the work that you did. Mary, it showcases what the Hope Lab is all about, trying to help people become more comfortable in the outdoors. And so, I really wanted to share this podcast that you created with the Outdoorosity listeners. Joy James So, before we kind of give them a taste of, of the podcast in your own words frame or set the picture for us. When you created the podcast, what were you going for? And just kind of set the tone because I know you approached it from a different way and had a unique take on the assignment, so I'll let you share from there. Mary Bowman Yeah, well, first I want to say that the biggest struggle with this assignment was the time limit that was set on it. Because once I started, like writing my script and everything. I was like, I, this is way too long. I think it would end up being like six or so minutes longer than it needs to be, which is just me talking, which is a lot. Joy James It was fine that you went over. It was a ten minute limit and I was so engaged as I hope the audience will be engaged with your talking. Mary Bowman I tried to approach it with kind of like it was more like a like a newspaper, sort of like column kind of thing where there's this set up where every week there's another time that we talk about a topic associated with App State and I was the host and the guest on my podcast, so I kind of focused on the research that I had been doing with Joy James and kind of just also a little bit of my experience and connecting the class with my experience in the outdoors. Mary Bowman And yeah, I just kind of had a lot of fun. I tried to make it as alliterative as possible, so it’s like, Mumbling Mountaineer Minutes. I and I hope you can hear me because I am talking very low. Joy James She’s an Appalachian mountain Mumbler, but no. So, what we're going to do at this point is switch over to that podcast to let the listeners listen and then we're going to come back and talk with Mary. So have a listen. Mumbler Hail and well met fellow M&Ms. I am your host. Mumbler and this is your podcast ‚Mumbling Mountain Mountaineer Minutes. For any new listeners tuning in, the Mumbling Mountaineer Minutes podcast is my show where I get people talking in low voices about fascinating topics across campus. Last week we had Dr. H, one of App State's very own IO psychologists talking about the organizational structure of the university as a psych minor, I found that very interesting and I hope you all did as well. So go back and give that one to listen if you haven’t already. Moving into today’s topic, we’ve got a student doing some research on physical activity levels in classrooms, children and even adults. Physical activity levels have been decreasing over the last few decades, and now researchers are trying to find ways to get kids more active. Mumbler One such researcher is focusing on how first grade students perceive the incorporation of movement into science lessons. Are they engaged, learning more or being more active? All these questions and more we will explore during this episode. So, without further ado, it is time to introduce our guest for today, Mary Bowman. Please tell us a little bit about yourself. Mary Bowman Yeah, of course. Well, first of all, let me thank you for having me today, long time listener and all that. Mumbler I love to hear that. Mary Bowman But yeah, so I am a senior recreation management student with a concentration in park and recreation management with dreams of being an interpretive park ranger. I have been working with Doctors James and Towner and the Hope or Healthy Outdoor Play and Exercise Lab to kind of examine these questions a little bit more. Mumbler Wowee! Senior huh? And so, you're graduating this spring. so. Mary Bowman Yeah, less than two weeks. Mumbler Yeah. Wow. Well, congratulations. Mary Bowman Thank you. Mumbler So, tell us a little bit more about how kids activity in classrooms impacts your field, like recreation, national parks, that kind of stuff. Mary Bowman Sure. So, a lot of research shows that children who get exposure to physical activity throughout their childhood are more likely to remain active later in life. That's kind of the interest that I took in this. And because children aren't being as active and especially not getting outdoors as much in the same droves, there is a concern about their health, but also something that we're kind of seeing in recreation is that there's a lot less awareness of outdoor recreational activities. People may know the premise of these activities, such as backpacking, rock climbing and mountain biking, but not so much is how to, like get in. So, part of what I'm actually interested in is helping to introduce kids to these concepts. And actually, something I worked on with Dr. James before is an event called Outdoor Expo, where I and two other college students went to the Appalachian Academy at Middle Fork, which is actually where the research for my thesis took place, and we showed them a couple of outdoor activities, ways to be active. We had an inflatable gaga ball pit. One of the students was teaching about no knots. One about packing a backpack. And so, we were having all these kids walk around in like partially packed backpacks and it was like really cute. But then I was giving a little introduction to Leave No Trace. So great time all around. But we noticed that there wasn't a lot of awareness of the possibilities of outdoor recreation. Mumbler So, there's a lot of interconnectedness that people don't really think about. Mary Bowman Yes, exactly. I mean, it's just habits, right? If kids make habits of getting outdoors, then they're going to be more likely to continue those habits throughout their life. Mumbler So here comes the question, what did you do as a kid? Mary Bowman I okay, let's see. I played a lot in the creek behind my house. You could even say I was an executive chef at the Mud Pie restaurant in my backyard. And as I got older, I got involved in scouting mainly boy scouting. Like that kind of branch. Not as much as girl scouting. So, I did more camping, hiking, backpacking, fishing, scuba diving, climbing. Mumbler Just a little bit of everything. okay. So quite the diverse spread. Have you continued these into your college life? Mary Bowman Yes. Not as much as I would have liked with, like, classes and work and whatnot getting in the way. But yes. What about you? Mumbler Let's see. I did a lot of just going to my local park. My parents took us out for walks quite a bit and there was a lake there so you could rent canoes and kind of paddle around. But same as you. I've had a bit of shift and focus during my time here at App. Mary Bowman Understandable. I'm. I'm right there with you. But. But, hey, hit me up and we should go for a paddle sometime. Mumbler You know what? I might just take you up on that, but there is something that I want to get back to just a little bit. You mentioned that there wasn't as much awareness of some of these recreational activities. Can you dive more into that? What are the challenges that the recreation field is facing as a result of low physical activity levels in children? Mary Bowman Wow, that's a big question. Yeah, it is a little bit of a big question. Mumbler Sorry. This is just a fascinating topic. And the question just kind of developed more as I was talking. Mary Bowman No. You're all good. I'm just I'm but a wee undergraduate student, so I'll do my best. Right. So, kids who aren't getting the recommended 60 minutes of moderate to vigorous physical activity per day are more at risk for a whole range of health challenges. And there is the aspect that kids aren't learning a lot about these recreational activities. So, if they ever get into backpacking, hiking, climbing, these sorts of contexts, they have to overcome the physicality aspect and the knowledge aspect. So both of those. Both can be addressed, but it does bring on this question of safety. People can see the outdoor rec industry as sort of this like in-group and in a respect, there is a group that is like in the know and not. There's a lot of terminology that people need to be aware of protocols and behaviors that should be followed lest you risk life and limb. So, the challenge that recreation faces specifically is how to get kids introduced to these concepts to lower their risk of health stuff and to keep them safer out in these contexts. And there have been a lot of great programs which aim to do just that. National parks are working with local schools during the off season. Other events like the outdoor expo that I put on and other stuff like that. The other aspect of this though is how do you get kids engaged in outdoor activities? Like, kids these days and, you know, also like US TVs, phones, TikTok, video games and all of that, it's all more immediate gratification that is hard to tear kids away from. So that is what recreation professionals have to struggle with. Mumbler Wow. Interesting. Okay. So, it’s challenging to get kids to engage and aware of some of these outdoor activities. Mary Bowman Yeah, but research reiterates time and time again what benefits everyone, not just kids, get from getting outside and getting active. Mumbler Right. Of course, even with the little background I have on this topic, it's generally a well-known thing. Like I might not know all the specifics, but people know that there are benefits to getting outside, getting active, right? What are all the angles? I mean, during my time hosting this podcast, I’ve rarely encountered a topic that didn’t have criticisms. Mary Bowman Sure. And I would be interested on your thoughts on this because I've drunk the proverbial Kool-Aid and I'm bought in. I've been working on this research for a long time, and it's all that occupies my thoughts. I do want to emphasize that I'm not saying that indoor activity is not good, really any activity is beneficial. It's just that outdoor activity has all the benefits of like base level activity coupled with the benefits of being outdoors. Mumbler Oh. Okay. So that's actually what I was going to say. Like, what is wrong with indoor activity? Mary Bowman Right. So, there's nothing wrong with indoor activity. That is actually kind of what the research I was working on with Dr. James focused on. So, since it was a pilot study that took place during November, there wasn't a lot of outdoor activity. What the surveys ended up analyzing was student perceptions of enjoyment and an indoor active lesson versus indoor non-active lesson. Mumbler Okay, interesting. So, you and I know that there are benefits of being active and being active in the outdoors. What can say recreation professionals do to try to solve this? Mary Bowman So funny you say that I recently had the opportunity to host a discussion about that very topic in my senior seminar class, So I asked my fellow students what we could do to lower the barriers that are preventing kids from participating. And we came up with a decent list. So first, having free or low cost programs, a lot of outdoor recreation programs and activities require a non-insignificant amount of money, like gear costs, like backpacks, tents, food, boots, clothes, all that kind of stuff that all racks up really quickly and that can prevent people from ever being able to participate. But also, things like admission fees or tickets to get in to get into some of these recreation areas that can also prevent participation. So, we talked about lowering that barrier. Mumbler That would be nice. Mary Bowman Right? I mean, and it does kind of hint at the sort of cynical perspective that we all have about capitalism. And a lot of us want to break down as many barriers as possible, but we also want to be able to provide quality programing. Yeah. And I wish I could offer more methods, on like how to make those actual changes, but that's above my pay grade. Mumbler Mine as well. So, what else did yall come up with? Mary Bowman Sure. So, we also mentioned lowering expectations for kids participating in local parks and rec programs, extending more invitations, having club teams as well as ranked teams and exposure to more sports and activities. So lowering expectations for kids and having club teams is kind of the way that we're trying to create a welcoming environment that doesn't have the pressure for achievement. We talked about in class how some of us got burned out playing for teams where all people, parents and coaches wanted us to do was win. And a lot of times that competitive atmosphere ruined participation. Extending more invitations was trying to tackle the problem that some people don't know, what they don't know. Residents may not know everything that their local Parks and Rec department is offering, and that starts to go deep into more of how can we make recreational spaces more welcoming and inclusive. Mumbler Something that's fascinating, but we don't have time for it. Mary Bowman Right? Give me the airspace for that and this episode would be hours long. Mumbler So your classmates focus more on the local Parks and Rec aspect. Mary Bowman Yeah, so a lot of our discussions circle around local parks and rec and that's a great place to focus attention, get people more active in their community to foster initial relations, and then they can explore more specialized things by branching out. But as someone interested in working with the national Park system, I have like a thought or two about what the national Park System can do. Mumbler Yes, please, by all means. Mary Bowman So I mentioned a little bit before about how there is often programing with local schools during the offseason and national parks. Mumbler Right. Mary Bowman So essentially, and this doesn't sound very groundbreaking, but just continuing that, having more outreach programing, partnerships and that kind of stuff with local organizations to establish relationships, but also doing it on a larger, more dedicated scale, those programs can create foundational relationships between kids and parks that lead to those habits being created and continued throughout life. There are programs such as Muddy Sneakers and Wild Watch that engage school age children with outdoor activities and science, and then invite them to a site such as Grandfather Mountain Stewardship Foundation to explore more about what they have learned. And these programs teach some environmentally conscious behaviors to ensure their safety in the outdoors and since they're typically school age children, the safety of the outdoors itself. Mumbler Wow. Okay. Some interesting concepts. And you said Muddy Sneakers and Wild Watch. Mary Bowman Yeah. Science programing that gets kids outside and interacting with nature. Mary Bowman Helping them to foster a sense of appreciation. You could say! Mary Bowman Exactly! Mumbler So, we know what students are saying. What is research saying? Mary Bowman Right. So, kind of what we started talking about, researchers are looking at does physical activity in academic lessons increase enjoyment learning and does it actually help them to become more active? Unsurprisingly, the answer is a resounding yes. So, some of the studies that I read had researchers putting accelerometers on students and comparing physical activity during the interventions and during a control setting, which was just a typical like traditional lesson. Actual steps recorded were higher during the active lessons students reported higher enjoyment and overall academic performance was higher. Mumbler So pretty clear, huh? Mary Bowman Right. The obstacle, though, because you might be wondering why haven't we incorporated more physical activity into lessons is the feasibility of actually implementing these changes. Schools have been focusing more and more on academic performance because that's one of the ways that they get money. Higher performing schools are eligible for higher funding from state and other external sources. So that's where the focus is. And sometimes it's viewed as radical for schools or teachers to do away with traditional instructional method for something that is still new and doesn't guarantee the school to get money. Mumbler Schools are so underfunded as is. So I guess focusing on things that won't help them be able to offer resources to their students. It's not going to be on the top of the list. Mary Bowman Right. Mumbler Okay. So research has proven that incorporating physical activity into the classroom increases student enjoyment, engagement, academic achievement and physical activity. Mary Bowman Yes. And people are thinking about and talking about ways to break down the barriers between children and physical activity and getting outside. Mumbler Yeah. Mary Bowman So lowering costs wherever possible, removing some of the competitiveness in local recreation and engaging with the community... Mumbler ..to build those relationships and know what resources are available to them. Mary Bowman Precisely. Mumbler All right, Mary, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It was an absolute pleasure. You have the floor if you want to make any shoutouts. Mary Bowman Oh awesome. So thank you so much for having me. I would like to shout out to doctors James and Towner for their amazing research and perspectives, also to Stella Sapolsky because she's been awesome. Dr. James's 10:00 Senior Seminar class. Yall are also amazing. Mom and Dad, thank you so much for getting me outdoors as a kid and thank you listeners. Get up Get out and I'll see you out there. Mumbler Wonderful. Well, folks, that's all the time we have for today. If you have any questions or want to share your stories, go to the link of the description and you'll hear from me next week as we dive into the mystery of the Durham Park Bigfoot. Remember, Stay mumbling. Mary Bowman Are you telling me that there have been Bigfoot sightings at Durham Park? Mumbler Well, I can't say much right now, but some interesting stuff has been going on down there. Mary Bowman Well, I Guess I'll have to tune in then. Mumbler Hey, what canoeing in places are there near here? Mary Bowman Loads. Price Lake, Watauga Lake the New River. We can even take one out on the duck pond. There's also Watauga River and Wilson Creek. I could go on for ages. Becki Battista Today's episode is brought to you by the Hope Lab. One of the goals of the Hope Lab is to conduct research that encourages people of all ages to be active in outdoor settings. We work with students on research projects that can be honors or master's thesis. Many of our student researchers have published in scholarly journals and been recognized for their work. Becki Battista To learn more, visit hopelab.appstate.edu. Let's get back to the interview with Mary to see what she learned from her research and how it helped her as a professional. Joy James So, I want to ask Mary the experience of doing your honors thesis and that topic with the Hope Lab. What was significant to you that you think may not have come out in your podcast or now that you're, you know, six months away from it? What did it mean to you to be able to...how does this impact you as a professional or personally? Mary Bowman Yeah. So, the biggest thing in kind of just a little tangent. A little bit, I went on my first outreach with Grandfather Stewardship Foundation last week, and that's with a program called Wild Watch, which gets first graders trying to do more environmental education with them and getting them out of the classroom a little bit. My first outing was last week and I was super stressed about it, but I kind of remembered that thankfully the research that we had done was with first graders, and so I was able to kind of call back a little bit and was talking to my supervisor about it a little bit and just the amazing responses we got from their drawings. Mary Bowman It was just fascinating because everything that happened during the program, what they had looked for and really what called to them and with their drawings was being outside. That was fun. Moving around the classroom, being outside, that was great. But how much they looked to their classmates while they were doing this program. That was amazing for me to really know that having them Mary Bowman Do this together and explore things and learn as a group and share their findings and that that's what really called to them. And so, I was able to kind of take that with me as I went into the outreach and kind of keep that in mind and really try to engage them as much as possible with each other. Mary Bowman And yeah, that was that was the biggest thing that really impacted me. Joy James Wow. That is so cool to hear that social, you know, and you and I talked about this as you're doing the analysis that social seems very obvious that as humans we are drawn to the social connections and that reinforces our learning or our interests and activities that we're in. And at the same time, we're both still surprised that, social is really important. Joy James And I think you hit on something is particularly what Outdoorosity is trying to do is help people build skills in the outdoors and comfort. And also we want to build community and that's social. You talked about Boy Scouts and the venture scouts and then how you welcomed new scouts in and taught them new things. And you were a part of that community before you were even in the community. Joy James And so I think that's a key thing for us and the outdoors as well. So thank you for sharing kind of that insight and how it played out for you and will continue to, I think, as a professional. So we have a segment at the end. It's kind of a version of Rapid Fire. We call it Getting the Dirt on Getting Outside. Joy James And it's basically whatever comes off the top of your head and you’d be willing to share. And then I might ask you to expand. I might not say anything. I might join you in that. So the first one is what's your biggest fear when you're in the outdoors? Mary Bowman Snakes. Only snakes. So, I am not a snake person. I appreciate them so much. I know how much they do for the environment, but them being near me spooks me out so much. And one of the things about my job is that we have to hold snakes as part of an interpretive thing. Joy James You still do it? Mary Bowman So I tried for the first time, like a month or so ago, holding a snake, and I could do it for like 3 minutes before I was like, Get this away from me. It's adorable. I love her. She's amazing. Her name's Sally and I love her to death. She's a corn snake, but just having her on me I was like, breathing in cold air is not great. Joy James Wow. I'm impressed. Snakes is certainly one of the number one fears a lot of people have. And just even being in the presence of a snake, I've seen people kind of go ballistic and just they leave the room. So the fact that you were able to hold it at the same time, hold care and concern for it at the same time, recognizing I don't like it. Joy James I can't do this. All right. Mary Bowman I've grown up with snakes, too. Like my brother had some when I was in high school. There was one time that they...one of them got into my room and that probably did not help. Joy James You found it, I take it? Mary Bowman Yeah. My cat did. And I was like, What are you looking at? And it was it was one of his snakes. So yeah, it non-venomous it was a corn snake. Joy James Have you, in all the times that you've been like you were at Philmont and the water base one have you come across snakes? Mary Bowman Yeah. This one time that I was out doing a sunset hike with some of my coworkers at Philmont, and we were walking through this like it was like a knee high, like really dry grass, kind of like that alpine desert meadow kind of thing. And we were walking and I looked down. My foot was like centimeters away from this copperhead,...not a copperhead a rattler, and it wasn't rattling. Mary Bowman And I just said. Joy James Did you like, jump up or did you jump and run? Mary Bowman I stopped and I gave it the biggest burst that I could. And I kept my eyes on the ground because they blend in so well was I don't want to hurt any of them, but I also don't want to be bit. Joy James Gosh, I'm glad you did everything they were supposed to do. Some people's reaction is to actually kill the snake, rather, like you say, recognize that, hey, they belong there and I can go as far away from it as possible. And it obviously wasn't too scared if it wasn't rattling at you. Mary Bowman Right. Right. Well, I mean, the other thing is one of the biggest thing that this comes from working at the Stewardship Foundation are people who love snakes much more than I do. And we'll talk about it, especially during our program of how people can confuse corn snakes for copperheads. And so one of the big things that is a threat to corn snakes is just people willy nilly, just as you said, just kind of going after them. Mary Bowman And it's really sad because they're adorable and they help with rodents. Yeah, but I understand that I don't want them near me either. Joy James Yeah, there's almost human instinct to kill, but. All right. So the next question is, what is your most embarrassing outdoor moment? Mary Bowman Jeez. You don't know if I can talk about this, but there was. I was walking back after I left a crew at Philmont, and I really had to go to the bathroom and I was in this like it was like a rock slide area. So, it was like almost completely bald. And there were just a bunch of, like, small rocks everywhere. Mary Bowman And I can't make it past this. And I was just like this over there, off the trail a little bit, this crossing my fingers that nobody would come near me. Joy James Did they!? Mary Bowman Nobody did. But I just remember it was just like looking around me. But also thankfully, those mountains have cougars and I was just constantly like, I know that they can blend in so well. Mary Bowman And I hope just I don't want any living thing seeing me right now. Joy James But I've totally been in this position before. I can't say that I haven't been caught. So. But you know, you're right. The Bears, like even when I haven't been caught, you're just you still like and it can impede your success or whatever. Mary Bowman There was another time. Sorry, I hit my mic. There was another time that I was in Alaska with my crew and we were doing our sea kayaking portion. And when you are sea kayaking and you're on the on the bay, you can go number one in the woods, but they don't want you going number 2 in the woods. You're supposed to go number two in the big blue. Mary Bowman And so there I was on this bank and a boat cruised by. It was awful. I was like please don’t see me. But I couldn't hide. Joy James Oh my God. You know, I bet the boat people looked away. Mary Bowman I hope so. Oh my God. Joy James No, that was that was where my incident occurred, too, was when I was sea kayaking. And there's just like you say, there's just no getting away from it. At the same time, the need is so pressing. But anyway, it's a very human thing to have to go to the bathroom. Mary Bowman Yes. indeed. Joy James So, the next question is kind of like, what is your must have piece of outdoor equipment that you'd never leave home without or you can't live without when you're in the outdoors? Mary Bowman I really like bringing a journal with me whenever I go out. Typically, I'm good at bringing everything that I need to survive. So that's kind of my priority is kind of bringing that that journal. When I was...everything's going to go back to Philmont, but I know that at Philmont it was suggested to us to journal we were out there and I still sometimes look at some of the stuff that I'd written and it's just the time to kind of be there. Mary Bowman You can, you know, be with people when you're writing or you can kind of like find a little secluded place and just reflect on the things that you're seeing where you've been. And somebody asked me recently to give some advice about when they are going to Philmont as a crew. And all I could remember was really how important that was for me to learn how much I could deal with...my limits, my strengths, and what priorities I kind of focused on when I was when I was out there. Mary Bowman And journaling really helped me really catalog everything that I did because it’s always want to look back on what you do, but also a little deeper and see kind of what resonates, resonates with you. Joy James I think that's so powerful that you introduced this idea at Philmont and you continue to do it. Can I ask, you know, like when you're backpacking, everybody's worried about weight. So, is your journal like a little tablet or is it a bound book? Like, how do you carry or how do you determine what size to bring with you? Mary Bowman So, I am not an ultralight backpacker. That's never been a possibility for me. I always bring too much stuff. My parents had gotten me this little journal. It's like a leather journal. Yeah, probably like I have no idea how to quantify it. Joy James Like the size of your hand. Mary Bowman A big is a little bit bigger than my hand. I would write kind of in that and it wasn't super heavy. But again, like everybody has different priorities when they're when they're out backpacking, whether they want some more comforts, whether they want absolutely bare minimum lite camping. But I like to journal. So yeah, yeah. Joy James Well, something we didn't even share. I got one more question for you, but before I do that, I do think it's important to share with the students or for the listeners is that did you work at outdoor programs as well during your time at App State? What was the role that you had with outdoor programs? Mary Bowman So, I was just the kind of front desk person who would talk to you if you're going to rent gear, sign up for trips, all that kind of stuff. The world changed a little bit over the four years that I worked there. Initially, we were fuzed with the climbing wall, but we ended up separating, which honestly was for the best, but yes, setting up trips, answering questions and all that kind of stuff. Mary Bowman It was really awesome. Joy James So, you kind of continued your theme of helping venture scouts and then you moved it to college and helped students who are coming in. So, the last question is for here in Boone. Do you have a favorite local outdoor spot that you go to on a regular basis that you would, you know that you'd want to share with the audience? Mary Bowman Well, there are some like different places, depending on how I'm feeling. I recently moved a little bit outside of Boone, so I can't I really liked going to the Greenway and kind of like sitting out there behind the baseball fields with my roommate or my cat just kind of sitting out there. It was really nice to just kind of chill and be just outside without a lot of Pressure, like having to hike out... Mary Bowman But when I did want to hike out places, I really like the Boone Fork Trail. That's really nice. It's got kind of everything. It's got meadows but rivers and scrambling and ladders and steps and kind of all that kind of stuff. And I know most people already know about this, but it's one of those that you want to keep on the down low because you don't want a bunch of other people there. Mary Bowman But for the last few years on my birthday, I've been going out to refuge to watch the sunset. Yeah, and it's just a really nice place to have a cup of tea and read a little bit while the sun sets. Joy James Cool. That's a great idea. Well, Mary, thank you so much for being willing to allow us to share your Mumbler podcast. And the Hope Lab was very thrilled with the work that you did with us. And in fact, we are moving forward on some of that research and going to be doing some more with the drawings that were done after we had the the bug intervention. Joy James And so maybe we'll be sharing more about that later. Mary Bowman Yes, please. Joy James So again, thank you for your time. Mary Bowman Thank you for having me. Joy James All right. Cool! Becki Battista Mary's path into the outdoors has now been expanded into research. She became comfortable through venture scouting, determined she wanted to have a career in outdoor education. Then, as part of her educational experience, she worked at outdoor programs, and she jumped at the opportunity to research children's perceptions of physical activity in outdoor settings. There are many paths into becoming comfortable in the outdoors. Becki Battista Check out this episode’s notes page for resources on App States, outdoor programs, employment opportunities and venture scouting. We want to thank Mary for her willingness to share her podcast and a little bit about her journey. The Appalachian Atrocity Podcast was created by Melissa Weddell, Becky Battista and Joy James. We want to thank our podcast producer Dave Blanks from App State University Communications. Becki Battista We leave you with the following quote from John Muir. “In every walk with nature, one receives far more than he seeks.”

5. 

   8 Dec 2023

   Ep10 - Britan Sides - Empowering Outdoor Exploration

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Dr. Joy James, a professor in App State's Department of Recreation Management and Physical Education, interviews App State graduate, Britan Sides about their time at App State and more specifically the huge impact working at Outdoor Programs had on their life. Show Notes UREC Outdoor Programs (https://urec.appstate.edu/outdoor-programs) Outdoor Equipment Rental at App State (https://urec.appstate.edu/pagesmith/951) Handshake (https://careers.appstate.edu/handshake) Bouldering/Climbing Rating (https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/climbing-bouldering-rating.html) Price Lake Blue Ridge Parkway (https://www.blueridgeparkway.org/poi/julian-price-memorial-park/) Rough Ridge Trail on the Blue Ridge Parkway Info (https://www.exploreboone.com/outdoors/hiking/rough-ridge/) https://transfer.appstate.edu/ (https://transfer.appstate.edu/) - Transfer Admissions and Engagement supports transfer students at all stages of their education—from initial inquiry, throughout their transition to Appalachian, and during their academic and social journey. Please let us know how we can assist you! Contact Information: instagram username: @britanns Transcript Becki Battista Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Hey, we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on the health, environment and human development. Becki Battista The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at www.hopelab.appstate.edu.   Hi, my name is Becki Battista. I am a professor in Exercise Science at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed outdoor physical activity addict. On today's episode, team member Dr. Joy James, a professor and recreation management, interviews Britan Sides where they tell us how they got into outdoor recreation and how working at Appalachian State’s UREC/Outdoor Programs, has built both their skills and community. Joy James We’re here today with Britan Sides, a student here at App State. Would you please introduce yourself and tell us where you're from and why you chose App State and what your major is? Britan Sides Yeah, of course. So my name is Britan Sides. I'm a junior anthropology major at Appalachian State University. I'm actually a transfer student. I transferred from Wingate University. I just felt like I wanted to be here. I really didn't feel like I was just in the right space. So I ended up applying to transfer to Appalachian State University and got here and absolutely love it. Britan Sides I love the atmosphere. I love the outdoor culture here. I'm from a really small town in the middle of North Carolina called Oakboro, North Carolina. It's pretty close to Charlotte, about 45 minutes from Charlotte. But yeah, that's a little bit about me. Joy James Cool. Can you tell us about your favorite outdoor activity? Britan Sides Yeah. So I actually just recently got into climbing, specifically bouldering. It's one of my favorite things to do. I've been going almost every day for the past two months to the climbing wall over at the University Rec Center. It's really awesome. I haven't been climbing outdoors yet, but I really want to do that. I'm just trying to get some people together to go because it definitely could be a dangerous sport to do by yourself. Britan Sides But there's some really great spots over at Grandmother Mountain and just around the area in general to go bouldering. It's a really good workout. It's just really fun and you meet a lot of cool people through it. And I also am really into water sports, specifically stand up paddle boarding. That's another one of my favorite things to do. Britan Sides It's also like a full body workout. It's very fun, especially down at the beach. And you can have dolphins. I have a dolphin swim up right by me one time, which was really awesome. So. Joy James Oh, I'm jealous. Give me the timeline on bouldering. Was that something since you've come to app like in the last two months, or is it something for a year you've been doing? Britan Sides Yeah, I've been app since the fall of 2020 and I was really scared to get it. Go to the climbing wall. I started working over Outdoor Programs in the University Rec center and I was watching people climb a lot because I got a good view of the of the wall right there. And I was like, I really want to do that, but I'm so scared and I don't have any climbing shoes. Britan Sides So I was like, I'm just going to wait. So I heard it's really terrible to try and climb in regular, like running shoes or tennis shoes. So this year I was like, I'm going to get into it. This is something I really want to start doing. So about September, I really started to get into it. I started going bouldering a lot. I haven’t done top roping, but that's the goal of mine. Britan Sides My biggest goal for this year is to do...there's different levels, so it starts at V0. It goes up pretty high into the double digits for how hard the problems are. Right now. I've been doing mostly V1s which is pretty easy. You don't really need a lot of climbing experience, but my goal is to get to a V4 by the end of the spring semester. Joy James Okay, so let me roll back just a bit. So what's the difference between bouldering and top roping? Britan Sides Yeah, so bouldering is just climbing. No ropes, no nothing. And you have a crash pad that you have below where you're climbing up. So if you fall off, you're going to land on this soft little pad and you don't have to worry about getting hurt. So that's no ropes, no harnesses, no anything. I usually don't go up pretty high. Britan Sides It's just a pretty good workout, pretty fun top roping is where you get into a harness and somebody belays you. So you have somebody who's pulling the rope and you're going up pretty high. You could go all the way to the top of the climbing wall, if you’d like, or wherever you're at, if you're on a mountain, wherever you're at. Britan Sides And it's really fun. It's really scary because you do go up pretty high and it's really hard cause it's way more climbing than you would normally do, just bouldering. So it's definitely very difficult. But because you're tied into a harness, if you need to take a break, you can kind of sit back in the harness for a minute and take a break. Britan Sides But yeah, I haven't tried that yet, but I'm looking forward to trying it soon. Joy James So you mentioned that in bouldering there is these different levels, V1 being very basic and it goes up when you said it's like kind of like solving a problem. So the problems get harder as you go up in the levels. Britan Sides Yes. Yeah they do. Joy James Thank you. So V1 is if I wanted to start bouldering, that's where I would be at and that's just as much fun, if not more if you've never done it. Yeah. Britan Sides Normally it starts V0, which are absolutely no climbing experience and then as you get up V1 is a little bit harder than V0s. I started doing just V0s, then moved up to V1s and now I'm trying to get...there's a specific problem at the rec center that I've been trying to get. It's the Halloween themed one, and so I've been working on that one and it's a V2. Britan Sides It takes a lot of work and a lot of practice to be able to build up that strength and build up that grit because it can be really painful on your hands. I definitely recommend doing research on different holds and how to do those holds because you can really hurt yourself if you're not grabbing them correctly. There's different holds. Britan Sides There's jugs which is just like a normal wrap your hand all the way around it. There's crimps which are basically just your fingertips and there's just a number amount of different holds. I mean, it gets more difficult as you go. But yeah, it's really fun. It's really hard. But I definitely recommend doing it and trying it out, especially being here at Appalachian State where you have kind of on campus that you can go to. Britan Sides They're super nice, super willing to help out and teach you those different holds and teach you how the problems work and everything like that. Joy James Cool. One other question with this just because, you know, sometimes it can be intimidating to go to that sort of wall. And it looks like you work there. So that kind of kind of lowered some of that intimidation factor. Is there any other advice for like, if I'm intimidated, what advice might you give me coming in to do that? Britan Sides Yeah, I definitely recommend going with friends. Maybe ask a friend, you know, hey, like I've been really interested in climbing, I would love to go. Want to come with me? Do you want to try it out with me? Usually having somebody you know there really helps. The first time I went, I went by myself. But like you said, I do work there. Britan Sides So I didn't know the workers that were there. I think having somebody that, you know, with you is really helpful. It is going to feel really weird at first because there are some people that come in and they are really good. They're doing really hard problems, but the people are so nice. They're always like, You want me to help you out? Britan Sides Or like, Are you struggling with this problem? You want me to like, show you how I do it, stuff like that. It's definitely intimidating at first, but going with a friend, the best times to go when the wall is empty is usually between three and five. So I recommend going between those times because people are in class, they're not really coming to climb. Britan Sides I usually go later at night around eight and usually there's a lot of people in there too. So if you're feeling intimidated, maybe you could just sleep and be like, Just see how many people are in the wall. Or ask one of the workers like, Hey, what's the best time to climb? Like, I'm kind of scared to come in, but usually that time between like three and five, two and five is the best time to go, because usually there's a lot of people in there because of classes and everything so. Joy James Good Insider tip. Thank you. Yes. Britan Sides Yeah, of course. Joy James So we'd like you to kind of tell us about yourself. So I'm going to give you four different questions I have. So the first one is how did you first get interested in the outdoors? Britan Sides So I've always been the kid to be outdoors. Like I always I had a really big backyard when I was a kid and we have woods back on our house. So I was always like going and wandering around in the woods and everything and but I didn't really live in an area that had like mountains or like big areas to go climb or to go hike and things like that. Britan Sides So I really didn't get into hiking or climbing or anything like that until I got to Appalachian State. And I didn’t even know about Outdoor Programs until I applied for the job. I was looking on a handshake and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. I would love to work here. And so I applied for the job. Britan Sides And through that job, I've learned so much. I've learned different techniques for backpacking. I've learned how to light a stove when you're backpacking, which I had no idea how to do, how to set up a tent. And so once I started meeting all these people and like they were sharing all their experiences because there's some people that do some really cool stuff over at outdoor programs, it's a great way to like come in and just talk to people Britan Sides If you're interested in getting in the outdoors. But I was like, I don't want to be like that. I want to do cool things like that. So then I started going out, climbing more and hiking more and I got into stand up paddle-boarding, which I have been wanting to try for a while, and I was living at Oak Island for the summer and my parents had rented, they got kayaks and I got a stand up paddle-board. Britan Sides I was like, I'm going to do this! So that's when I got into stand up paddle-boarding. There were some great places to paddle there. There are some beautiful places to paddle here. Price Lake is a great place to start out. It's usually really calm and it's absolutely beautiful, especially right now when the leaves are changing. So really when I got here is when I really just started to like get into the outdoors and learn so much through like my work and the people that I worked with and my friends about different outdoor activities. Britan Sides Yeah. So I was like, I got to do these cool things because this just sounds like such a fun experience. Joy James So cool. I'm going to talk to kernels that I want to highlight for our listeners. One, you mentioned handshake. Yes. What is handshake? Britan Sides Handshake is an app that you can use to look for jobs, internships, things like that. There's a specific section for jobs on campus that you can click on and look through. How to get an on campus job, especially for first year students, is really nice. So Handshake is a great way to look for a job here in Boone or on campus. Britan Sides You could also upload your resume so you don't have to like keep re uploading your resume and it could just be on your profile and you just click. This is what I want to send to the employer and usually they'll get in touch with you. You also get messages from people who are looking for interns or jobs to handshake, which is really nice. Britan Sides So it's a really great app to look for jobs and look for internships. Joy James And it's free because you're an App State student. It’s part of our program. So the other thing you kind of mentioned other colonel or treasure. Once you got that job and your outdoor programs, you found your community. I think that's the hardest part, particularly being a transfer student, right? You come here not as a freshman, not living in the dorms and knowing everybody. Joy James So I think that's one of the most challenging things, is kind of finding your people. And some I don't even know who your people are because you're still trying to figure that out. So I love the fact that you found a job that sounded appealing and you got a community, people who are kind of showing you the ropes, so to speak. Britan Sides Yeah, it was really awesome. I was really lucky to be able to get this job. I love it there. Every semester we're hiring because, of course, we have, you know, people graduating, people moving off to go do different things. So if anyone is interested, you check it out on Handshake. Joy James And you don't have to be an outdoor person. Like you could just totally. So I can work there and not have climbing skills, backpacking skills. I can be a newbie and I could still work in outdoor programs. Britan Sides Yes. And that goes for the island center. I specifically rent out gear to people, so I work at the front desk. The climbing wall is also a part of that. They train you on everything. You don't have to have any experience. Work at the climbing wall. They'll train you all on that. We also have trips you do have to do about a semester's worth of training to lead trips. Britan Sides You don't have to have any experience. You do have to fill out an application for that and then they'll teach you. We do caving, we do hiking, we do climbing. So you'll get to learn all these really cool skills and then you'll get to lead people on trips and get to meet new people and introduce new people to those outdoor activities. Britan Sides So there's a lot of really cool employment opportunities over outdoor programs. Joy James Britton Is it still the instructor development program? That's what you're talking about for the training or call it? Okay. So again, for our listeners, outdoor programs, they have this thing called instructor development in their classes that you take to get this training and you apprentice and then you go out and you start leading traps. Yeah, it is fabulous. Joy James Yeah. And I'll give props to Outdoor Programs. I'm a Recreation Management professor, so of course, you know, I sometimes I'm biased to my students. I would tell you that Outdoor Programstrains, their outdoor staff. I mean, they are some of the best outdoor leaders I've met, and they're all majors. And that's, you know, I hate to say that as a Rec major, because I'm like, oh my gosh, this should be recreation. Joy James But no, anybody could do this and be in the field and be an instructor. And I think that's what's so wonderful. They do such a great job with training. Britan Sides Yeah. If you look at it just I'm an anthropology major. We have some rec management majors, but we also have criminal justice majors, psychology majors. It's all over the place. So no matter what you're interested in, what you're wanting to do with your life outdoors, whether it has to do with what you want to do for your career, or just because you love the outdoors. Britan Sides Or maybe you just want to get into that culture. It's definitely a great place to go and to start and to get involved in a lot of different things. Joy James Cool. I'm going to ask a question. You kind of answered it, but I might ask you to elaborate a little bit more. What are your favorite outdoor activities? I think you mentioned Paddle-boarding bouldering and hiking. And so if there's any others that you have or if you could elaborate on why you like them so much. Britan Sides Yeah! So I really like climbing mostly just because it's a great workout. It's your entire body and it's just so much fun and it gives you so much accomplishment when you finish a problem and like you jump off the wall and you're like, Yeah, like I got that. I've been working on that for so long. Like, I feel so great. Britan Sides Also, just meeting so many cool people, like, especially if you go to a gym like the one on campus or there is Center 45, which is over where Hatchet Coffee is, that's a great place to go. They're super nice over there also just like meeting so many cool people, getting to get that workout in and then also getting to just feel that accomplishment is really awesome. Britan Sides And then when it comes to paddle-boarding, I love the water, especially the ocean. I never went paddle-boarding in the ocean because that scares me. That's really there's actually people who do white water stand up paddle-boarding. That's insane to watch. I definitely recommend like looking that up. They're not connected to the board at all. They're just going through these, like, massive rapids, just living their life, like having a great time. Britan Sides I could never do that. But it looks really fun. But just getting to see the nature and like going out on Price Lake...that's my favorite place up here to go. It's so beautiful and just getting to paddle out into the middle of the lake and just kind of sit there and just enjoy nature and just listen to the birds singing and just getting to be there is just really awesome. Britan Sides Taking all the beauty of this region in general because it's definitely gorgeous out here and just being able to take that in and just sit there and enjoy the moment is really awesome. Joy James And you have your own paddle-board or do you rent from OP? Britan Sides I rent from Outdoor Programs, yeah. We have the inflatable paddle-boards, which are really cool and they're really easy to be able to move around and everything, so I usually rent from them. I really would like my own. I was going to ask for one for Christmas, but I was like, I kind of want climbing shoes though. So I ended up asking for climbing shoes. Britan Sides But yeah, I especially since I work there, I also get to rent the gear for free. So which is another perk of working for the Outdoor Programs. So yeah. Joy James Well, I like that. You know, I rented an inflatable a couple of years ago for my niece to do this, and it was great. Like you said, I could get it in my car and put it on top. So it was very easy. It was easy to rent and get out. And I think I had it for 24 hours, so it wasn't like I had to bring it right back. Joy James All right. How do you think you became comfortable in the outdoors? Comfortable to go hiking by yourself or paddling board? Have that happened for you? Britan Sides Yeah, it definitely took talking to people and asking people questions. I once I started working out outdoor programs, I started asking people questions. I was like, “What do I need to know to be safe?” Because safety is extremely important. Doing any outdoor sport by yourself can be very dangerous. And our first priority when we're talking to people about whatever activities they're doing hiking, climbing, camping, paddle-boarding, we try and make sure that they understand the dangers and how to keep themselves safe. Britan Sides So I think it's super important to talk to people about it. Whether you come into Outdoor Programs or you have friends who are heavily involved in whatever activity you're wanting to do, I definitely recommend asking questions, doing research and getting that information so you know how to keep yourself safe. I also recommend, you know, always having friends is always really good to keep you comfortable, to keep you safe. Britan Sides It definitely is really hard to go out there by yourself and try a new thing and that's with anything. And I think just having a good friend to support you or to be there with you is always really awesome. So I would say those two things are key, whether whether you walk an outdoor program to like, Hey, I really want to try this, but I don't know a lot about it. Britan Sides We have a massive book that has anything and everything you could want to do and we can help you plan trips. We can help you learn how to pack your backpack. We can teach you how to set up a tent. There's so much information we have in that book. It's our trip planning book, so you're always welcome to come in. Britan Sides We love telling people about it. We love talking to people, helping people plan trips. So that's an awesome resource. And also just having friends, having somebody you're comfortable with to go out and to do something new with is always nice. Becki Battista When listening to Britan share their experience, we can see they overcame a common constraint to outdoor recreation: beginners embarrassment or intimidation. Research on leisure participation constraints for women, LGBTQ and people of color include not seeing people who look like you, body image, fear of attack or harassment, outdoor pest critters and animals, access to natural spaces and economic circumstances. These constraints can be overcome through determining what is holding a person back and what motivates them. Becki Battista App State's Outdoor Programs is set up to help students, whether beginners or experts, be able to develop their outdoor skills and gain confidence. One other way to overcome some of these constraints is to build community or become part of a supportive outdoor community where people encourage beginners, cheer on each other and continue to challenge each other in the activity. Becki Battista Today's episode is brought to you by the Hope Lab. One of the goals of the Hope Lab is to find ways to get people outside. Working for an outdoor organization is one way to gain skills and connect with others who are interested in the activity. Visit www.appstate.hopelab.edu to learn more about the benefits of being outside. Becki Battista Let's listen to the rest of the interview where Britan shares how they built community and what motivates them to continue their outdoor recreation pursuits. Joy James So is there any one person that's been a major influencer there for you in terms of helping guide you? Britan Sides Yeah, my supervisor last year, their name is Mack. I talk to them a lot about getting into the outdoors, doing some new things and they're really awesome. They still work there now. Every year we have a different supervisor. Our supervisor now is really awesome to, CeCe. She's also been a great help just talking to her. She also works on the climbing wall. Britan Sides So I'm like, you know, “What problems should I do? How do I do this or how do I do that?” So a lot of my supervisors have been really great. And also my boss, Val and the GA Dusty over at outdoor programs, they're both super amazing. So nice. I was actually talking to Val the other day, I was planning on going backpacking and she was like, “Yeah, let me just tell you some good places to go.” Britan Sides It was going to be my first time backpacking, so she was like, “Here's some good, like starting places to go. Here's like some things you might need to know.” which is really awesome. And then Dusty is so great. He's such a he's such a great guy. He's been such a great person to have in my life and learning about the outdoors and just being able to talk to him about his experiences with the outdoors. Britan Sides And he also helps do the resetting of the climbing wall. So I can always get a little inside bits of like what problems to do and what new routes they've set and things like that. Joy James So it sounds like a just a wonderful community of people. Britan Sides Yes. Yeah, it's amazing. Joy James Yeah, you should be there. Poster child for it. Britan Sides I actually was at the beginning of the semester, CeCe my supervisor was like, “Do you want to like, come talk to the freshman at, like club events and stuff?” And I was like, “Yeah, I'd love to.” So that is exciting. Joy James Yeah. Not only do they build you, you know, they train you in your position, but they kind of cross train and are willing to give you advice and then give you opportunities over there as well. Britan Sides Yes, for sure. There's, there's so many things to learn just for yourself when it comes to just building skills to have a career, just building those basic like connections and just how to have good work ethic is really awesome. And just getting to have a good group of people that you feel comfortable around and you can just learn so many new things from is really awesome. Joy James Cool. All right. This is the last question for the kind of the interview part. Basically, tell us a story about an outdoor experience that has influenced you. It could be a funny story. It could be a surprise or it could be a lesson learned. Is there do you have any story like that from your experiences in the outdoors? Britan Sides I'll talk about my first time going stand up paddle-boarding because that was a really cool experience. When I first got onto the water, I didn't start standing up. I started on my knees. I was like, I'm going to take it slow. Yeah. So I definitely recommend if you're going paddle-boarding and that's your first time, you can go ahead and start out standing up if you feel comfortable. Britan Sides But starting on your knees is also okay too. That's what I did. And I just remember, like, feeling so good. I was I paddled out. There was this big open area where like people could sit on the beach and it was a pretty big area. And then there was like a island on the other end, a little small island you could go kind of walk around on. And then on the other side of the island there were little channels of water and there was long grass. And it was just a beautiful place to paddle-board. And I remember I had just gotten out and I was in the middle of the water and I see this dolphin and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I please, please, like, come up again. Britan Sides And it comes up again and it's probably like if I bent over, I probably could reach it. So yeah, I was just standing there and I was like crying. So, so excited. So I'm like sitting on my paddle-board and my parents were behind me. They were kayaking and they were like, What is it like, Why did you stop? And I was like, Wow, there's a dolphin. Britan Sides Like, That's so cool. It came out right next to me. And that was just such a cool experience. And so I paddled on my knees for a little bit and I was like, okay, I'm I'm ready to stand up. We had stopped on this island just to look around, check it out, see if we can find anything cool. Britan Sides And so we're heading back in the water and I'm like, I'm going to stand up now. And I got about to the middle and I fell off the paddle board. And at first I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so embarrassing. But once I got back on the board, I was like, You know what? Nobody was watching me. Britan Sides Everybody is going to fall off. At some point. You're going to fall off so many times. That's totally okay. Paddle boarding is hard. You're not going to be able to stand on it perfectly and paddle for like an hour or two without falling off. You're going to fall. And that's okay. Like, that's a part of the learning process. Britan Sides And I think that's something I had to learn because I'm so scared of falling off. I was like “I have to be perfect. I have to I have to stay on it the whole time or else I'm not doing good.” But, you know, when you fall off, it's like refreshing because you're sweating from paddling. So you get that, like refreshing, cool water and it's like, okay, I'm re-energized, I'm going to get back up, I'm going to try again. Britan Sides And that's really important. Just accepting the fact that you're not going to be perfect. Joy James Your even like the first however many times it takes a while. Britan Sides Joy James And I still do stupid stuff. And it's funny how those emotions kind of come up and you're embarrassed and I look around and did anybody see it and I love what you're advising us is everybody follows, everybody fails, get up, do it and look at the positive and keep practicing. Because if I was afraid I was going to soar, I'd never do anything. Joy James Yeah, and I'm so glad that you were able to get yourself to stand up. And, you know, embarrassment is a is an emotion. And hopefully it's not an emotion that deters us from ever trying it again. And I think you also suggested your community that you are around without the programs. It's you're a beginner and it's hard. It can be embarrassing and yet they're very nice to you and they're like, How can we help you? Joy James They're so excited. So I think that's the other cool thing is surrounding yourself with people who support that and understand it's awkward and you've got to be brave and then they're kind to you. Britan Sides Yeah, yeah. And I like I like to think, especially when I'm climbing, I'm like, I'll see some people doing really hard problems. And I'm like, Well, they've been where I was. Like, they, they had to get past the level that I’m at in order to get where they're at now. So I think that's a good way to think about it. Britan Sides Whenever you see someone that's like really doing some cool stuff and you're like, I really wish I could do that. Like they seem so cool. Like, I wonder what they're thinking about me over here doing, like V ones and they're doing like the sevens and it's like, Wow, these people are really cool. And this kind of think like, you know what? Britan Sides I can be there one day because because they were at the place that I'm at right now and they had to surpass that to get to where they are. And so like that really motivates me, just seeing people do these really cool things and being like, Oh, I'll be there one day. And that's that's the kind of level I want to be at one day. Joy James That's so awesome, Britan. So awesome. Yeah, well, that kind of wraps up the interview portion. We have a segment we call it Getting the Dirt on Getting Outside. What is your biggest fear about the outdoors? Britan Sides My biggest fear...I watch a lot of true crime and so going out, I'm like, Oh my gosh, Like I'm out here by myself. Like, it can be really terrifying to just be out there by yourself and know that, like, there's wild animals, there's other people around. You're kind of in the middle of nowhere. So that's always really scary, especially for people who identify as woman. Britan Sides Like that's that's terrifying going out there by yourself. And it's definitely something that I wish we didn't have to worry about or fear about or anything like that. But that comes back to doing that research and knowing how to be safe out there so you can be prepared for things like that. Joy James I would also add just from my own experiences, because I was like you, I didn't want to go well, I would say I was like you, but I when I first started, I wasn't. I was more likely to do things with friends. It was hard to go do it by myself because I didn't know or I was afraid. And what I can say, as years has gone by now, I go by myself. Joy James Because as you get more competent, comfortable, you know, like you said, how to be safe. And sure, it's always better with friends, but it's really empowering when you can solo something yourself, you know, just say, Oh, nobody's wanted to do it with me, so I'm going to go do it. That is a fear that I think all of us are kind of like, Oh, wild animals. Joy James I'm not sure about. All right. What is your most embarrassing outdoor moment so far? Britan Sides My most embarrassing. I would say so...I went hiking one day over at Rough Ridge, and my roommate was out of town and I was dog sitting. She has a pitbull mix. His name is Dexter. And so we're going up and we're good. Like we're chill and we're having a great time. And it had actually rained earlier that day. Britan Sides And if you've been to Rough Ridge, you know, it's really rocky. It can be really slick. And so we did so top we sat down for a little bit. I give him his water and I'm like, okay, let's head back down. And this dog is probably about the size of me. And so we're going down and he's just wanting to run. Britan Sides He's like, I want to run down this whole path. I want to go, I'd probably fell like five or six times. I was trying so hard to like, get him to just stop and calm down and it was just not working. And there were people like trying to walk and like, I'm over here slipping around everywhere. It was really fun. Britan Sides It was fun going out with him, but it was so embarrassing, just like being have mud all over me, like him just pulling me down and me not being able to control him because he's like my size. So it was really embarrassing, but it was really fun. Joy James Isn’t that funny how you can be embarrassed and have fun at the same time. So, what is it? Must have a piece of outdoor gear equipment, Something you would never leave home without or something you can't live without In the outdoors. Britan Sides I would say water bottle. I can't go anywhere without my water bottle. In general, there's so many things, but water. You can't you can't go without water. Whether you're just going out for the day, whether you're just going for a few hours or whether you're going overnight, like make sure you have a big water bottle and make sure you know where to fill that water bottle up and make sure you know how to get clean water, because that's just super important when you're doing extensive exercising like that to make sure that you're staying hydrated and you're drinking good clean water. Joy James All right. What is your favorite local spot? Britan Sides I really like Rough Ridge. I go there all the time. It's so beautiful. Once you get to the top, it's only a mile high, but it's a pretty good workout. Joy James It feels like boulder sometimes. It's like you have not really hike up or do some serious lunging to be able to get over them. Britan Sides Yeah, there's some big rocks and like, it's a really good workout, even though it's only a mile. But once you get to the top, it's so beautiful and it's just such an awarding experience. Once you get to the top, it's like I just. I just get to witness this beauty. Now I get to sit here and going down is always way easier than going up. Britan Sides Unless you have a pit bull with you that's pulling you down. Joy James Some students were talking to me that they they've seen a lot more people at Rough Ridge. And so they started doing sunrises. Britan Sides Yes, that's think. Joy James That's a good idea. I had thought about that. Britan Sides Yeah. And it's beautiful. I've never been at sunrise but I know that just imagining I'm sure it's absolutely beautiful once you get to the top and like you're seeing the sunrise over the mountains and it's just absolutely gorgeous. Joy James I think the hard part is getting up, right? Like I don’t wanna get up that early. Britan Sides Yes, definitely. Joy James All right. Well, Britan, we so appreciate your time and enthusiasm and kind of your story through Outdoor Programs. I think that really showcases how in student affairs can really be impactful to a student's life and help you find your community and a hobby that's going to be a lifelong pursuit. So I'm thrilled that you were able to join us today. Joy James Thank you. Britan Sides Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun, so. Joy James I'm glad you enjoyed it. Becki Battista As we wrap up the interview, we want to share some resources for you. Check out this episode's notes page for resources on App State’s Outdoor Programs, hiking trails and other topics from our conversation with Britan. We want to thank Britan for their insights and stories. Appalachian Outdoorosity was created by Melissa Weddell, Becki Battista and Joy James. We also want to thank our podcast producer Dave Blanks from AppState University Communications. Becki Battista We leave you with the following quote by Amy Poehler: “If you can dance and be free and not embarrassed, you can rule the world.”

6. 

   27 Sept 2023

   Ep.09 - Kennedy Williams - Comfort and Peace

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Dr. Becki Battista a professor in App State's Department of Public Health and Exercise Science, interviews App State Exercise Science and Chemistry Alumna, Kennedy Williams about her journey toward gaining confidence and finding peace outdoors. Show Notes App State HOPE Lab Resource Page https://hopelab.appstate.edu/resources (https://hopelab.appstate.edu/resources) App State Student Orientation Undergraduate Leaders (SOUL) https://orientation.appstate.edu/workfororientation/soul (https://orientation.appstate.edu/workfororientation/soul) App State Outdoor Programs https://urec.appstate.edu/outdoor-programs (https://urec.appstate.edu/outdoor-programs) Campus Nature Rx Network https://www.campusnature.com/home (https://www.campusnature.com/home) Hikes mentioned that are located along the Blue Ridge Parkway Linville Gorge and Falls https://www.blueridgeparkway.org/poi/linville-falls/ (https://www.blueridgeparkway.org/poi/linville-falls/) Rough Ridge Trail on the Blue Ridge Parkway Info - This is an awesome trail to hike! The Rough Ridge Trail is part of the Tanawa Trail. There is a parking area along the Blue Ridge Parkway called Rough Ridge - around mile post 303.  See the map below for the entire section of the Tanawa Hiking Trail. https://www.nps.gov/blri/planyourvisit/tanawha-trail.htm (https://www.nps.gov/blri/planyourvisit/tanawha-trail.htm) Contact Information: instagram username: @kennedyalaina1 Transcript Joy James Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity, where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share App State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on health, the environment and human development. Joy James The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing a foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at Hope Lab App State Dot Edu. Hi, my name is Joy James. I'm a professor of recreation management at App State and I love getting outside. I'm your host for the Appalachian Outdoorosity Podcast today. Joy James On today's episode, team member Dr. Becky Battista, a professor of exercise science, interviews 2023 App State alumni, Kennedy Williams. Kennedy tells us about her adventures in the outdoors and how she took a few chances and stepped outside her comfort zone, got a job with URec’s outdoor programs and found nature and the outdoors to be a big part of her experience at App State. Joy James Today's episode is brought to you by the Hope Lab. One of the goals of the Hope Lab is to find ways to get people outside. Going out with a group on a hike is one way to gain skills and connect with others. Finding someone who's more experienced in the activity is often helpful as it begins to let you learn from them, regardless of what activity you choose to do outside. Joy James Just being outside can provide many benefits. Visit Hope Lab App State that edu to learn more about the benefits of being outside. Becki Battista Welcome to our Outdoorosity podcast. So I am Becky Battista Kennedy. We'd like to welcome you. This is Kennedy Williams and she's here to talk to us about her experiences in the outdoors. So first, Kennedy, introduce yourself. Tell us why you chose app states and what your favorite outdoor activity might be. Kennedy Williams Well, I want to firstly start with thank you for inviting me to a podcast. I'm a senior here at Appalachian State University studying Exercise Science and chemistry. I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina, originally, and what inspired me to come to Boone, to Appalachian specifically, was my scholarship. Initially, Appalachian State was at the bottom of my list because I was unfamiliar with the area. Kennedy Williams I didn't know what the area consisted of and it was very rural compared to what I was used to. So I would say my scholarship is what reeled me in and the scenery is what kept me here. Becki Battista So what are some things that you have enjoyed or after your freshman year? What made you want to stay? Kennedy Williams Well, I realized that there's a different culture around Appalachian as a whole and something that I've never seen before prior to coming to App. So, I really fell in love with the community, the individuals that I met, and the uniqueness that a lot of them had. I use it as a learning experience because, you know, the world is so vast and I just wanted to venture out from what I was used to seeing. Becki Battista Tell us your favorite outdoor activity. Kennedy Williams I would say, right now...something that was really relaxing that I got to do over the summer was I got introduced to paddle boarding. Paddle boarding is really fun, even though I haven't gotten to the level where I can stand up on the paddle board yet. Still just (laughing) Yeah. Paddle boarding on my knees was pretty relaxing. I felt very empowered. Kennedy Williams I just felt like I was floating and the rest of the world around me was non-existent. It was just me in the water and that's it. Becki Battista Have you paddle boarded around here around June at all? Kennedy Williams Not around, but actually it was an outdoor activity. But I did it indoors. But I can't wait to take that skill and the opportunity outdoors and it'll be so much better. I can only imagine. Becki Battista That's awesome. How did you first get interested in the outdoors? Kennedy Williams Well, I've always been interested in the outdoors. Even as a kid, I would ask my parents camping and if we could go hiking and they weren't into those things, you know, doing paddle boats and going for boat rides, that was fine. But the hiking and the camping was a no no. So I've always wanted to do those things, but I never had a group of people to do it with up until coming to college. Becki Battista And how did you find the group of people here? What did you do that sparked a friendship or a group that you could go on an outing with? Kennedy Williams Well, it started with “SOULS” being an orientation leader. Our bonding events required us to spend time with each other. And what better way to do that than to go on a hike or spend a night out having a bonfire? So that was when I was first introduced to different trails around Boone, and that was my first experience of doing a real hike, not just like a backyard. Kennedy Williams I'm hiking in the woods type of hike. It was a real hike on a mountain and it was liberating. Becki Battista Are there any kind of memorable hikes that you went on or what's kind of your most memorable hike? Kennedy Williams Yes. So my first time going to Linville Gorge, I don't know which trail it was, but I've never seen views like that in my life. Because, well actually, having the ability to climb to see those views now on a plane that's different, but using your own body to climb a mountain and to see all of the scenery around you, it was just, I don't know, it was mesmerizing. Kennedy Williams I've never seen views like that before from hiking. Becki Battista Yeah. Was it fall? Spring was there because, you know, it changes. Kennedy Williams It was during the summertime. Becki Battista So beautiful, I'm sure. Weather was great. Yeah. Just kind of a perfect day. Would you ever go on a hike by yourself or are you more interested in just doing things as a group of friends? Kennedy Williams I would say that it depends on what type of hike. Something very simple and easy to navigate, would go alone. No problem. However, if it's something more complicated and more risky, then I would definitely go with a group because I don't trust myself enough to go on a major hike by myself just in case anything happens. Kennedy Williams You know, certain people who are more experienced may know what dangers to look out for. I would just freely roam and hike and think that everything's okay, knowing that there may be a few dangers, but you know, that's how I handle that. Becki Battista So you talked about the SOUL group that got you into going on hikes. Was there a leader or was there somebody that kind of helped you feel comfortable doing this, these hikes that you now progressed into feeling pretty comfortable on climbing and a pretty good trail at Linville. Kennedy Williams There wasn't one specific individual, I would say just having that group as a whole and everyone encouraging each other to keep going was really nice. Also just having a mix of people with different skill sets. Becki Battista As an extra scientist. So I always think about the technical aspects of a trail, like the physical activity part of hiking a trail and you know, you're going uphill and then downhill and you're climbing over things. There's a lot of great physical activity that you get within that, but then you also get tired and hungry. So are there any kinds of snacks or other items that you tend to be like, “I always have to have this when I go for a hike?” Kennedy Williams Oh, yes. So I always bring my mini backpack. Inside my mini backpack, I bring Band-Aids. I bring some type of bandana just in case. I also bring my personal care pack, which is really small but has the essentials for emergencies and I would say water for sure, a 40 ounce water bottle and sometimes another water bottle along with that. Kennedy Williams And then I also bring granola bars and little cheese, little string cheeses and a sandwich. That's it. That's all I typically bring. Becki Battista Yeah, I think everybody always has that one food that they always tend to bring. And I think as you become a more avid hiker, you start bringing things like you talked about; an emergency kit, Band-Aids, blisters and bandana in case it gets hot because even though you're in the mountains, it can still get warm and hot. That's awesome. Becki Battista I like that. How do you think you became comfortable in the outdoors? What is it about it that that you're like, “I really enjoy being outside.” Kennedy Williams I feel at peace when I'm outside. I feel like my body just feels a lot more relaxed, as if tension that I was carrying. While I'm inside, I really feel like there's weight lifted off my shoulder if I'm stressed and inside of my room and I go outside just for a few minutes and breathe in some fresh air and just sit with nature. Kennedy Williams I feel I feel like all that stuff is released for the moment and I'm relaxed and I'm just enjoying the sounds around me and appreciating. I tend to reflect on life when I sit outside and look at all the life around me, whether it's, you know, a human being or plants that are growing the grass. I acknowledge all of those things. Becki Battista And do you feel you need to go like deep in the woods to get that? Or can you just go sit at like Sanford Mall or out at the Greenway? And when you're over at Levine Hall. Kennedy Williams Definitely not just in the woods. I try to find appreciation to every aspect of nature, whether it's just a small courtyard or whether I want to hiking trail or even outside of my work place or any academic building. I just try to appreciate every aspect of nature. Becki Battista Over here at Levine Hall, we're right next to the Greenway. And so for me, I'm the same as you. I like those little breaks of my day where I just have to get outside and just to do the short little loop around the Greenway right by Levine Hall. And I feel like I can breathe and I can come back to work and get a lot more stuff done. Becki Battista So I think, you know, you bring up a really good point about the importance of even 5 minutes outside can really calm your nerves and bring you back to right now. I can refocus and I can get on with my day so I think it's definitely important. Joy James When listening to Kennedy, it's clear how she grew to enjoy and appreciate her outdoor experiences while a student at App State. While the outdoors is not what brought her to upstate, the campus and the surrounding area certainly added to her overall experience. I appreciate how she had very little experiences in the outdoors, but was willing to engage in a few activities that were outside her comfort zone, like hiking and paddleboarding. Joy James Research supports what Kennedy discussed about how just being outside can bring peace and calmness, and that outside does not always have to mean being in the middle of the woods. It can be wherever you want to be, including a short walk outside or just on the greenway. Any amount of time you can spend outside can help your overall mood. In fact, a 2021 review indicated positive associations between being in nature and improve mental and physical health. Joy James Faculty and students associated with the Hope Lab are also active and investigating the links between nature and outdoors on overall health. Additionally, App State is a member of the College Nature RX Network, which is a coalition of campuses dedicated to promoting engagement in nature to improve and support mental and physical health. Let's get back to the interview with Kennedy to see what other adventures she engaged in while being a student at App State. Becki Battista So now here's another hard question for you. So think about an outdoor experience that might have influenced you. Kennedy Williams So I'm going to go back to the Linville Gorge experience because I never sat I've never sat on the edge of a rock before that high. So it just it was something about the thrill and knowing the danger of that, but also knowing my boundaries, knowing my limits and knowing my level of expertise on what I could and couldn't do. Kennedy Williams But I, I don't know. I just felt so empowered by sitting on the edge of that rock. And ever since then, every time I go on a hike, if there's a rock or if there's, like somewhere where I can hang or let my legs hang, I'll take a picture there. Rough ridge is kind of an easier one. I did one there and there's also another one. Kennedy Williams I'm not sure if it's Trashcan Falls, which isn't a big hike, but it was still really pretty. It's very small, very simple. But there were so many different areas where you could take really nice pictures. There's this…what's it called? It's like a not a lagoon, but a little pool where the water flows into it. And a lot of people jump in there, jump in the pool and swim around. Kennedy Williams And I just…it was different. I think it's very beautiful. Becki Battista Do you have a favorite season up here? Kennedy Williams Summer? Definitely summer. Boone summers are unforgettable. Becki Battista Yeah, it really is quite breathtaking up here. I like the fall and the change of the colors and I love spring when the word hundreds bloom. But summer is pretty spectacular. Kennedy Williams Yeah, I would say that previously I. I was trying to find different ways to stay in Boone. Stay in Boone for the summer. I found the research that I did over the summer and also working at UVA, which also influenced me to learn more about outdoor programs and what all is out there. I didn't know what paddle boarding was for outdoor programs, so yeah. Becki Battista So tell me, what is it that you do at UREC? What's your position? Kennedy Williams I'm just a Commonwealth supervisor, so I supervise individuals that want to come in and learn about climbing or individuals that know how to climb and just want to climb for fun. Or whether it's bouldering or top rope. Becki Battista What is your favorite? What do you like to do? Top rope. Kennedy Williams Boulder Definitely top rope. I'm not the best at bouldering. Like I'm going to crush my fingers every time I try bouldering. It takes a lot of upper body strength. Becki Battista Did somebody kind of encourage you? How did you get the position at URec on the climbing wall? Kennedy Williams It was through a job fair…an Outdoor Programs job fair. I think where you shop for some of one or the other. Becki Battista And you just were drawn to working on the climbing wall, even having never climbed before. Kennedy Williams Yeah, I thought it was pretty interesting. I wanted something adventurous. I knew that I was going to be in a lab most of my days, so I needed something exciting, which was the climbing wall. Becki Battista That’s very exciting. I'm thinking about  words of wisdom for somebody that has never climbed before and it can be kind of intimidating when you walk into the climbing wall and you see all these people climbing. And it's not an easy task like I have climbed before and it's hard. So what would you tell somebody that has never been to the climbing wall that it's like, I kind of think that would be interesting. Becki Battista What advice would you give them? Kennedy Williams I would simply tell them to step out of their comfort zone because you never know what you may like until you try it. I didn't realize that I liked climbing until I tried it. My first time. I struggled my freshman year and I feel like we have a really good relationship at the climbing wall during practice and during training. My colleagues and supervisors were very encouraging and they wanted to see you grow at UREC. Kennedy Williams They wanted to see you grow in your skill set and I thought that that was really encouraging. So I would say for anyone who's trying to learn how to climb or is wondering what it's like, just go for it. Don't think about it too much. Just go for it. Becki Battista Yeah, I agree. That's I think that's a great statement. I was opposite of you. So I also have climbed, but I started on a rock wall like I was literally in Colorado, my first climbing experience and then in Colorado. Yes. Yes, I know. I know. It was the same thing where it was. I was definitely very scared. They put us all on a very easy climb first to kind of build your confidence, and then after that, each day we kind of went to harder and harder climbs and I then I fell in love with it. Becki Battista And then I moved here and I, I went to the climbing wall and I was like, oh, so different. It's just so it's completely gone. Yeah. And similar, but different. And I was like, Oh, kind of like being on the rock a little bit more, but sometimes you just can't have access to that, and the equipment is a lot of stuff to it. Becki Battista But I just loved it too. I mean, it's, it's thrilling and it's scary, but at the end of it, when you get down, you're like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that. Kennedy Williams What's one thing that you like the most about outdoor climbing over indoor climbing? What's something that just grasps your attention a little bit more? Becki Battista I think it's the scenery. Like, I just remember climbing in Colorado and even though we weren't really like that high up, you looked out and there was a ledge and you could see all the way down to the bottom and you're like, I can't believe I'm really this high up. Like, that was…it was just the beauty of it that you can't replicate in a climbing wall. Kennedy Williams I can only imagine. That's so awesome. Becki Battista It was fun. I climbed in on Lake Superior. There's a big rock surface, too, and that was the first time that we actually laid down. So you climb down like you belay down and then climb back up and there you're climbing down like you're belaying down and there's the lake right there. You've got to climb back up. So that was a very strange experience, but. Kennedy Williams I've never thought of climbing that way. You belay first or you go down first and then climb back. Yeah. Becki Battista I was petrified, but I was actually with a group of students, so they were freshmen that were going to be freshmen at our university. And, we took them on this adventure and I had to show them how to do it. So and then they all did it. And it was great. It was a great sense of accomplishment. Becki Battista So that's what climbing can do for you. It's like, I just did that. I can't believe I just did that. So it's really fun. Kennedy Williams I bet. I bet the students that did that, they have that story to tell for the rest of their lives. Becki Battista Yeah, we did. We climbed, we kayaked and we hiked. It was a fun little adventure. Kind of got me hooked into being outside a lot, which now that I live here, you can be outside all the time doing whatever it is you want to do. Kennedy Williams And so yeah, it was my first experience with a professor that taught outside biology. Professors tend to teach outside at times whenever there is a specific lesson that we're learning. And I think that's pretty cool and unique about what's unique about our universities. It's really beautiful outside. So there's a lot of biodiversity. It opens up opportunities for learning in different areas. Kennedy Williams So I think that's pretty cool as well. Becki Battista Yeah, there's a lot of research that occurs just on campus, like literally in the creek and on the leaves, like it's kind of fascinating. I agree. Okay, so I'm going to throw some questions at you, Kennedy, that we ask all of our participants. And so these are the dirt on getting outside. And so the first question is, what is your biggest fear? Kennedy Williams My biggest fear, let's see. I would say I have several. And my first would be falling off a mountain or falling off of a cliff, potentially getting attacked by something and not knowing what to do or how to respond immediately. I think that's it. Those are my only two. Becki Battista Yeah, those are pretty good fears. I would be right there with you with getting attacked by something. As my friends and co-host would definitely say, my fear is being attacked by a bear. Oh. Second question for you is, do you have a most embarrassing outdoor moment? Kennedy Williams Let's see. I'm sure I do. I'll actually. Yes, during one of the hikes, I don't remember exactly which one it was, but I remember just tagging along. It wasn't planned. It was just at the spur of the moment. We're going to go hike. I just thought it was a good idea to go hiking in Birkenstocks and the rocks are very slippery. Kennedy Williams And, you know, going up the mountain, it was a breeze, but it wasn't as bad as going down. So I stumbled upon some slippery rocks and I fell on my bottom and scraped my arm, my knees, and I cracked my phone really bad. It was pretty embarrassing. It's not the worst. I guess I could share another one. Kennedy Williams Sure. So I tried jet skiing for the first time over the summer and I thought it was a breeze. I was excited. I hopped on, was very confident and the moment that the lifeguard told me that I had to go past a certain line, I couldn't stay close to shore. I started freaking out. I just sat there in the water as the waves went by. Kennedy Williams And I just sat there and I contemplated on whether I was going to just sit there in the water or go back to shore or what was going to happen. But I knew that it was going to end with me getting back to shore safely or me falling into the water. But I just embarrassed myself because I was screaming and I was crying. Kennedy Williams And the lifeguard, he had a few choice of words because he was fed up with me at that point. So that was really embarrassing. Yeah. Becki Battista It's hard, it's challenging. You get kind of shocked at certain things and then you're like, Now I don't. I'm not really sure I know what to do. Kennedy Williams Yeah. Becki Battista I totally understand. I mean, we all have some embarrassing moments in the outdoors. So you've talked to us before about things that you always bring in your pack. If you had one piece of outdoor gear or equipment that you could always have, what is that one piece that you'll never go outside without? Kennedy Williams I would say a blade, because, you know, you can potentially start a fire with a blade and you can also cut things with the blade. So I would definitely invest in one of those. Becki Battista Yeah. Good. And then what is your favorite local spot? What's your go to place? Kennedy Williams That's a good question. This is going to sound very basic, but I enjoy going to Panera Bread. I don't know why. I just love Panera Bread. There's a little fireplace in there and I study in a little corner sometimes, or I'll enjoy a baguette, a whole one sometimes. I have. Don't tell anyone. But yeah, that's my favorite place. Becki Battista Okay, now can I really appreciate you joining us. This has been great. You've got some really good stories and experience and things that I think other students and faculty staff can really think about in terms of just figuring it out or just trying it. Kennedy Williams Whatever it is, any opportunity that comes your way, go for it. Step out of your comfort zone, learn a new skill or two, and don't be afraid. Don't limit yourself. Becki Battista I mean, that's the biggest thing is you just got to take that first step. Kennedy Williams And I want to thank you for having me on your podcast again. Joy James As we wrap up the interview, we want to share some resources for you. Check out this episode’s notes page for research from the Hope Lab about the effects of being in nature and being active outside, as well as resources on app states, outdoor programs, hiking trails and other topics. From our conversation with Kennedy, we want to thank Kennedy for her insights, stories and advice, which include not wearing Birkenstocks on a hike. Joy James That's a good one. Appalachian Outdoorosity was created by Melissa Weddell, Becky Battista and Joy James. We want to thank our producer Dave Blanks from University Communications. We leave you with the following quote by John Assaraf. “A comfort zone is a beautiful place, but nothing ever grows there.”

7. 

   22 Jun 2023

   Ep.08 - Adrianna Nelson - Serious Leisure ”Bird Nerd”

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Dr. Joy James, a professor in App State's Department of Recreation Managment and Physical Education, interviews App State Biology Alumna, Adrianna Nelson about her passion for birding. Show Notes https://today.appstate.edu/2020/06/26/nelson (https://today.appstate.edu/2020/06/26/nelson) http://ww.appalachianaudubon.org/ (http://ww.appalachianaudubon.org/) https://highcountryaudubon.org/ (https://highcountryaudubon.org/) https://www.inaturalist.org/ (https://www.inaturalist.org/) https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/ (https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/) https://www.citizenscience.gov/ (https://www.citizenscience.gov/) The Big Year - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1053810/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1053810/) Transcript Becki Battista Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity, where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by The Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on health, environment and human development.  The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Becky Battista and I am a professor in Exercise Science at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed physical activity addict. I'm your host for the Appalachian Outdoorosity Podcast today. On today's episode, team member Dr. Joy James, a professor and recreation management, interviews App State Alumni Adriana Nelson. Adriana tells us how her curiosity of birds shaped her outdoor experiences and interests in Appalachian State University. Joy James We're here with Adriana Nelson, who is a biology major at App State. Adriana, what I'm going to do is have you introduce yourself. Tell where you're from, why Appalachian State University, why you're here. And then if you could tell us about your favorite outdoor activity. Adrianna Nelson Okay. Yeah. So, I'm Adriana and I'm from Bristol, Tennessee. So, it's just kind of on the other side of the mountains. I picked Appalachian for several reasons. One, I wanted to be a biology major and App State offered a concentration in ecology, which is really what I want to focus in. So that was nice and I really wanted to do that. And one of the professors here also does work with birds, which is kind of my...that's my big thing. And of course, I liked all the outdoor activities right in Boone and the nearby areas. I came for the mountains like everybody else did. Joy James For people who might not be familiar with what your activity is, what do you call it? Adrianna Nelson So, I am a birder and some people say bird watcher, but the serious people say birding, they're birders. Joy James I wanted that clarification because sometimes I think my mom, she's a bird watcher, she has the feeders up. And so how is a birder different than my mother who watches birds? Adrianna Nelson I think it just depends maybe on your own definition of it, but I like to actually go out and look for different birds at different times of year that might be migrating through or breeding. And I like to look at their different behaviors. It's more of a whole inclusive activity where you look at different parts of their life cycles and you’re more serious about it instead of just casually watching what may come to your yard. Joy James Gotcha. As you and I were joking before the interview, we called you a bird nerd. Yeah, that's an appropriate word to use. And you would honor that. That's not an insult. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, it's not an insult. Joy James All right. So how did you first get interested in the outdoors? Adrianna Nelson Well, I think I've always been interested in the outdoors for as long as I can remember. When I was really young, I rode horses, so I wanted to be a horse trainer for a while. But I also watched a lot of, like, Animal Planet and National Geographic. So, I also wanted to be like a safari explorer. So, I've always really been interested in wildlife for as long as I can remember So that's how I'm tied to the outdoors, at least initially, and with birds specifically...When I was nine, it was the middle of winter and I saw this bird outside that I didn't recognize and I knew a lot of the common ones in our yard, like a cardinal and a blue jay and all that. But I didn't know what this one was just a little gray and white bird. And I also thought all birds migrated to Florida in winter, which is not true. So, I was really confused why this one was here. So, I looked it up and I found out that it was a bird called a Dark-eyed junco. And I kind of got hooked on it because when I was searching for it online, I saw all these other birds that I could find in my area and that I haven't seen before. And I thought I was some expert on wildlife. And then here are all these tons of birds I didn't know. So that kind of got me hooked. Joy James Well, so you literally looked it up on the Internet. There was no book that you used or anything like that? Adrianna Nelson Right. Yeah. Joy James That's really cool. You know, I'm not a birder. I enjoy and I am probably a bird watcher, but I'll go out with birders and kind of get that experience. And what I remember when I first got into it was having to look at the book and I couldn't hear the sounds of the birds. So, now with technology, it really has advanced to the point that, like you said as a young person, you're like, ‚ “Wow! There's all this stuff out there I didn't know.” Adrianna Nelson Now I have tons of bird books, but that was before I got into it. And there is a lot online, so it was easy to figure it out. Joy James Well and I think, yeah, that's a great point. You know, the online kind of introduces you and then as you dive deeper into your interest area. You probably do go get books and magazines and other things on it as well as still look at stuff online. The big thing for me that was interesting about birders is like how do they find out when the snowy owl was out, when it wasn't supposed to be out and there's like this whole network? Joy James And now I think it's even more expedited because you can see online where the sighting was if you know the right people are talking. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, we definitely have a good network going. I mean, it's something where says, you know, we can send an email out. We have listservs for different areas like at home. I have one for the Bristol region and there's one here in the High Country. And you know, you can hear about rarities just like that. Joy James So yeah, it's just amazing how connected your birding community is. We know birding is your favorite outdoor activity. Do you have any other favorite outdoor activities that you do? Adrianna Nelson Yeah. So, I like to sometimes start hiking in with birding. And even if I don't see a lot of birds, I just, you know, I like to go out and hike a lot of the places around here. There are so many places to go. So that's one thing I enjoy. And I also like kayaking. Joy James And is it flat water or whitewater kayaking that you do? Adrianna Nelson I like flat water. Joy James There's lots of good ways to see birds that way, too. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, that's true. Joy James And this is a side question. Have you ever found birding has gotten you into an activity that you wouldn't have normally gotten into because you want to go see the bird? Has that ever happened to you? It's a side question because sometimes I find with people who are kind of animal nerds, they may not be outdoorsy, but with their passion for the animal, they'll go camping. They'll go rock climbing. Yeah, you've seen it. People who are biologists go rock climbing for lichen and they're not necessarily rock climbers, but they learn it so they can go see and collect the samples that they're looking for. So, I'm always curious to see how biologists, you know...is it the the interest that drives them or is it the recreational activity that got them interested? Usually, it's the interest that drives you guys. Adrianna Nelson Usually, it's literal driving that I do. I drive a lot in my car to go to all these places. Joy James That makes sense! What's a... when you said you combine birding with hiking, how does that combine? Are you bringing gear with you or you just hiking? What does that entail? Adrianna Nelson Well, whenever I go hiking, I always end up bringing my binoculars and my cameras anyway. So, it does end up usually turning more into birdwatching that it does just straight hiking. But like I went to the profile trail once to hike to the top and I really was just going to hike and see it because I hadn’t gone on it before at that point. And of course, there's like Pine Siskins that fly over and Crossbills and all that other stuff. So, they blend together. I hike to go see birds too. Joy James So, this is the other thing I suspect is the difference between a bird watcher and a birder, what time you go hiking to specifically see birds? Adrianna Nelson Early! Yeah, actually the cool thing about birds is you could probably literally go any time of the day, depending on what you're looking for. And like with waterfowl, they're not picky about what time they're out because they're just going to be on the water. So, you can pretty much see him any time. But then there's owls and nocturnal flight calls or NFC‚ and you literally have to be out there before the sun comes up. So, it depends. It's a big scale. Joy James Do you have trouble getting people to go hiking with you that early in the morning, or is it usually other birders? Adrianna Nelson It's usually other birders. I didn't have taken friends a couple of times and they usually don't mind getting up early to go on a nice hike. Joy James So good. I'm glad to hear that. I, I had an experience once with an avid birder and I didn't realize what birding was. I was at Point Pelee you know where that is in the Great Lakes. And it was during the migration. The birds were coming back up north and so they were crossing over. One of the great I guess I can't remember what the Great Lake is. Joy James I should know this. They were crossing over and Point Pelee is one of the first landings they could make, and the poor little birds are just exhausted. And I had never seen so many binoculars or spotting scopes and the sizes, and it was like 100 people in the forest and it was quiet. Adrianna Nelson Oh, wow! Joy James You know, and, you know, you're hiking. And I just I'm a chatter. I'm like, oh, look, there's a flower. Oh, look, there's this. And like, "Shhhhhh!" So, it's definitely a place you should go see some time. I didn't realize what a treat it was for me to see all of what I saw. But I did realize after getting up at 4:00 in the morning and birding until 12:00, how crazy you guys are. Adrianna Nelson Yeah. Joy James I mean, we went to a bunch of different places, but this is all about you and not about me. I use that story to illustrate kind of when you get into some sort of hobby that you so enjoy and are thrilled by there‚Äôs travel opportunities. There are recreational opportunities and sometimes it seems crazy at first to get up that early and then when you're out there with someone who's doing it and excited about it, it can be a lot of fun and you learn a lot. How do you think you became comfortable being an outdoor setting? Was there anybody who influenced you at a young age or is influencing you now? How are you building your skill set to be comfortable hiking or driving to a place you don't know and getting out in the woods and looking at stuff as a woman in particular? Adrianna Nelson Yeah. So, I guess when I was young, just my parents would go with me and so it wasn't a big deal and they were always really concerned about me going by myself at home. They still don't really like me going by myself, but I kind of go by myself here a lot, which a couple of times probably was not a good idea. So, I definitely like going with other birders if I can and there are some students here who really like birding, and there's a group called the High-Country Audubon Society, and they go on walks all the time. So going with other outdoor enthusiasts just in the area has really helped make me more comfortable going to all these different places, especially since sometimes they're really hard to find, like sometimes the directions online don't really go to the place then. So, it's kind of hard to figure out where some of these spots are, especially ones that are really tucked away. So, it's just other birders and my family and other people who like hiking and that kind of stuff. Joy James Cool. Do you have a birder person that's kind of a mentor or someone you admire or who's really been helpful to your skill set? Adrianna Nelson Well, I taught myself a lot of bird identification when I was younger. I didn't start going to club meetings or anything until I was, I think, a junior in high school. And so, I didn't have anybody at home who really was like a mentor to me. But there are a couple of birders at home. They invite me to go in different places and they've given me tips about where to find things and quick identification pointers. And so there are a couple at home at the local club, but for a big-time frame, there, I was just teaching myself. Joy James It was really cool that you were able to teach yourself. I bet it helped your biology in high school too. Adrianna Nelson It really did. Yeah. Birding ties a lot into bigger biological concepts, so it helped me a lot to grasp the concepts more. And sometimes I already knew them before I went to my classes. So, it's definitely been more than just me enjoying birds. It's helped me in other places. Joy James Can you tell us a story about an outdoor experience or a birding experience that has influenced you? So, it could be a funny story. It could be a lesson you learned story. Adrianna Nelson Oh, man. Well, I do have this one story that was it was funny, but it has nothing to do with birds at all. One of my grandfathers lives in Wisconsin. And so, whenever he comes down, my grandparents come down to visit. He always takes us fishing because there's this little lake in our neighborhood. It's more just a really big pond, but we call it a lake. We go fishing there every time they come down and this is when I was really little and I was having trouble setting the hook, you know, hooking the fish to reel it in. And he said, pull as hard as you can on that rod whenever you get a bite. So, it's like all my strength, I pulled on the right and I pulled the fish clean out of the water. Joy James Oh, my gosh. How did your grandfather respond to that? Adrianna Nelson He loves telling that story every time. Every time I see him or talk on the phone, he says, I'll never forget that time you pulled that fish out of the water and the same day my brother was with us, he always manages to fall in when we are at the lake. So, he fell in in his PJs. And it was just fun. Joy James That's so cool. Well, it sounds like you had good family members taking you out into the outdoor experiences. I do want to kind of probe a little bit more on birding for some of our listeners that might be interested on how to get into it. Well, I don't know if you realize this, but birding is the number one outdoor recreation activity. Adrianna Nelson Really? I did not know that. Joy James I teach in recreation management. I tell this to my students and all the students are like, unbelievable, because we're all about, you know, backpacking, kayaking, leading trips, birding??? How can that be the number one activity? ‚And what's happening is, as you probably know, as a young person, many older people are really involved in this. And a lot of money is being spent on binoculars, spotting scopes, travel to and fro. And I think they also categorize birdwatchers as birders, too. So, when the people answer the questions, even birdwatchers might click it. So that might be one of the statistical anomalies that's happening. However, I think it's fascinating because I do think it's an activity that people grow into. Maybe not as soon as you did, you're kind of an anomaly. So, if I'm a student here at State, what should I do if I'm like a come on, like this idea of birding, how should I get involved in it? Adrianna Nelson Yeah. So, there are a couple ways that you can get involved with birding groups that are local. So, on campus we have the ASU chapter of the Audubon Society, and if you haven't heard of the Audubon Society before, they're there. Everything, birds and conservation. So, they're a big deal. So, we're a chapter of the National Audubon Society. And so, you can find us online and we do occasional walks. And if you want to get involved with the local high country, Audubon Society, they are also a chapter of the National Audubon Society. You can get involved with them, too, and they do regular walks. And a lot of the people there are the full range of experience. So, you have one end of really experienced people and one in who are just kind of casual. So, you can kind of fit in anywhere in that spectrum. And a lot of them will give tons of helpful pointers and they're really friendly people, kind of fun to be around. So, if you want to learn how to get into birding and find local places and get some tips from people who have already figured out what works and what doesn't, you can join either those groups, then they'll help you out. Joy James Or is it very expensive to do? Adrianna Nelson No. So the on-campus chapter doesn't cost anything. And you can be a member of the high country Audubon Society. I don't think it's very much money, but you don't have to be a member to do walks. So, anybody is welcome to go on walks. Joy James And what equipment might I need? Adrianna Nelson Well, you probably want binoculars. They might have extra pairs of binoculars. I think sometimes the people who need the walks will bring into your prayers. If not, you could probably email. There should be an email address online and you can email somebody and they'll bring you an extra pair. Cool. If you really like photography too. A camera would be nice, but a lot of the walks they do are pretty casual. Adrianna Nelson So maybe a snack or a water bottle. That's about it. Becki Battista When listening to Adriana, the term Serious Leisure comes to mind. This construct made its debut in social science circles in the 1980s. Serious leisure is a systematic pursuit of an amateur hobbyist or volunteer activity that participants find so substantial and interesting that in the typical case, they launch themselves on a path centered on acquiring and expressing its special skills, knowledge and experience. Many outdoor activities like snow skiing, rock climbing, hiking, camping, mountain biking and more can all become serious leisure for a person. We all find activities where our curiosity to learn more, to gain more knowledge and skills, fuels our desire to advance in the recreation activity which can lead us to teaching others and enjoying the outdoors. Today's episode is brought to you by the Hope Lab. One of the goals of the Hope Lab is to find ways to get people outside birding as one example of an activity that may inspire you to do more things outdoors. Visit App State Dot Hope Lab dot e-d-u to learn more about the benefits of being outside, let's get back to the interview with Adriana and Joy to gain some more ideas about how to use birding to get outdoors. Joy James Okay, so something else that I know that's unusual and again typical of birders, but is unusual for someone who might not have been around a birder. Sometimes you can identify a bird by their sound. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, sometimes it's actually easier to identify birds by their sounds, especially whenever the trees are full of leaves. Like in spring and summer. And they're really vocal. And some species like warblers like to kind of hanging out in the treetops. So, it's kind of hard to see them. And we have a saying called Warbler Neck and that's from like looking way up in the treetops for a long time. It kind of makes your neck hurt. So, and there's actually a lot of resources for learning birds sounds and going back to getting into birds in general. There are field guides that you can get and there are backyard bird guides, so they kind of limit the species that are in those books. So, you can get a little tiny bit and figure out the basics, the ones that are really common. And then you can go from there. And there's a lot of apps too, like Merlin, which is from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and National Audubon Society, has an app and there's tons of different apps online. And they have bird sounds usually, and pictures of them, the males and females and the juveniles and they‚Äôre from different times of year, so it's really everything you could need in one app to figure out any bird. Joy James I'm glad you mentioned that. I was going to ask. I use the Merlin bird ID and what I love about it, when I used to use a book, I was confused by keying out birds or or even keying out leaves, you know, as a kind of a non biologist person, you know, not knowing the family or the phylum or the genus or whatever that was. And the Merlin Bird idea is great. You just plug in. Here's what color it is. I see it swimming or it's flying and it takes where you are into the, in the area and then it gives you a list of birds to choose from. And then I could go and, you know, put in the picture that I think this is my bird and I can listen to it. So, it's really, like you said, so incredible and its citizen science. So, I highly recommend it to anyone and it's even just fun if you're not necessarily wanting to be an avid birder. It's fun to know when you're walking outside, what you're listening to, and you can identify it and collect it. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, yeah. Another note on Citizen Science eBird is a really big database that the Cornell Lab of Ornithology runs, and you can enter in all your bird sightings you just put in your location, time, the date, what species you saw and how long you were looking for them. And that automatically gets uploaded onto eBird. And so that gets factored into things like population trends and scientists looking at rare threatened species and where the ranges are and how ranges are changing. And it is real science that this stuff is using. So, if you want to contribute to science, I submit stuff every day. Joy James I've discovered another app called I Naturalist. Have you heard of that one? Adrianna Nelson Oh, yeah. Joy James I figured as a biologist and like I say, you can tell I'm a biologist, wannabe! I need to go back to school and try it. And I just want to also reiterate what you're saying. Citizen science, for some of the listeners that may not know what's going on is literally citizens volunteering their time. Or, like you said, here's a sighting I saw and I plugged it in. And then it's used for making decisions to protect our populations and to maintain our natural resources. And flora and fauna. It really is an incredible tool for scientists to have access to. And it doesn't have to be someone who's like Adriana, who's an avid birder. It could be someone who's just really picking it up and put it in there. And you're contributing to science. That is a cool experience. I do want you to tell me one more story. What has been like either your top birding experience or what's like the most amazing bird you ever saw? Like, because I don't think people realize the passion and excitement that occur because they're like birding, you know, they're looking at birds. How could it be so exciting? And so, I think if you could share a story that might help them start to see, oh, there is some excitement. It's like a treasure hunt. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, yeah. I can think of a lot of ones that maybe I haven't experienced yet, you know, like a peregrine falcon swooping down and knocking a duck out of the air. I don't know. Joy James That's a really great point, that sometimes it's the anticipation of what you're looking forward to. Isn't there a life list or something that birders have? You check off your life list. And so then at a certain point, you know what birds you're missing. And so, you go looking for those? Adrianna Nelson Yeah, definitely. There's lifeless and then there's like your list and then county lists and month lists and you can I've really gotten into listing lately and that's kind of a fun thing too, because it kind of motivates you to go look for all these different species and it's kind of addicting. And you can also kind of compete with your friends and all. Joy James And you're right, it's competitive, it's noncompetitive. It's something it's like checking off a list. And I know there's one other thing I think is Audubon Society, don't they, in their bird count, they like in one day we count as many birds as possible. Adrianna Nelson Yeah. So, there's I know Cornell does a of what's it called great backyard bird count. I think that might be over a couple of days actually. And then I think they have a big day. I know Audubon has a bunch of Christmas bird counts that you can do. Yeah. Joy James And through your birding, have you made some really close friends? You said they're very friendly people. What kind of friendships have you developed due to your interest in birding? Adrianna Nelson A lot of the birders at home are older and so they're kind of more like a grandparent kind of relationship, you know, they'll kind of take care of you and take you and your pointers and sometimes bake your stuff. And I've had lots of muffins and cookies and stuff on birding trips. Joy James Because you are probably the youngest person with them. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, I am. So, there's there's that. And we're they're kind of like family. And then there's the younger birders. I am good friends with them. I've got a couple at home and a couple here that are my age and they're really fun to go with. And the really young people. I have a friend here who's 12, I believe, and he's like really into birds as well. And he's so energetic and he's just full of life and he's so happy all the time and wants to go and run around all these different places and find birds. Just these really close friend relationships all the way across the spectrum. And that's really nice. Joy James That's really cool. I'd never thought about that. As a birder, you get to experience people of all ages, and I suspect too, when you go to a new place and meet another birder, you're already talking to each other. It's not like you ignore each other. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, yeah, that's it. Exactly. And it's kind of cool because you can just show up. Like whenever I go on vacation, I always try to look for they're called hotspots. You can go on eBird and actually find different locations where people are reporting birds and it shows who reports them and what day it was and what they saw. And so, I'll go to these different places when I'm on vacation and try to get some news species. And if I run into somebody there, they might be a total stranger. But we can, you know, pick up a conversation like that about birds and that's really cool. It's an interesting dynamic. It really. Joy James It is. And I don't go hiking with binoculars like birders do, but whenever I'm out hiking and I see someone with binoculars, I'm always like, what did you see? I'm already guessing that's kind of like their logo. I'm a birder. Even though that's not what they're advertising, it's just one of the tools of your trade. I'm going to wrap it up and just say fascinating and still, I'm always interested in people who are birders and bird watchers. Our next segment is called The Dirt on Getting Outside, and it's trying to help students and faculty and staff be able to find or figure out things as they navigate getting into the outdoors. So, number one, what is your biggest fear about being in the outdoors? Adrianna Nelson Spiders. Yeah, that always really shocks people because I'm usually I like to think of myself as a naturalist anyway. And I'm always like flipping over rocks and logs, looking at salamanders. And I don't mind, you know, running through creeks and streams and picking up random things here and there. And then there's spiders and I just I'm so scared of them. I can't I can't help it. It's really weird. Joy James I don't want to tell our listeners to take a flash...I don't know if you've ever done this trick where you take a flashlight and put it on your forehead. You know what I'm talking about. Okay, so this is an old environmental education trick. I'm deviating from this from this segment. But you put your flashlight on your forehead, this won't work with a phone. So, you got to get a real flashlight. And you want to be about kind of in the woods and you want to be maybe about ten feet away. And you start looking and you're at the right position to see that. And I'm not going to use the right biology term. I apologize. But there's like it's like fluorescent...bioluminescence. It's not bioluminescence, but it's a reflection. And you see these tiny little pinpricks and you start to realize how many spiders are out there. So, you may not want to do it if you want to spend the night, but I'll put it up in the show notes, you know, the directions for how to do it, because it really is fascinating and kind of fun because it takes a while and then once you spot it, you're like, Oh, there are a lot out here. Yeah, I'm glad for spiders because they eat the other bugs. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, spiders are good. And whenever they're at our house, I always try to get my family to take them outside instead of squishing them, because I'm like, they're ecologically important! Don't squish them! Yeah, yeah. Joy James I'm still afraid of them, but I don't want to kill them either. And so, I kind of I live with them. Adrianna Nelson And if I'm ever with anybody and we're hiking, or birding I always make them walk first in fear of the spider webs. Joy James Yeah. So, for those of you who may not have hiked very much for particularly in the fall in the high country, you literally need a stick in front of you because you can walk into the spider web. And I'm with you. I always make someone hike in front of me and they're like, Wow, there’s a lot of spider webs. I'm like, I don't know what I'm talking about. All right. Second question, what is your most embarrassing outdoor moment? Adrianna Nelson Oh, man. Oh, probably the time I scraped up the front of my car. That was not fun. So, if anybody has ever been to Carver's Gap at Roan Mountain, I love Carver's Gap. And I was up there to hike and bird and the parking lot was totally full because we didn't get there early enough and it was packed. And I tried to go in the parking lot and people were trying to leave, but there were cars along the side so we couldn't pass at the same time. So, I like tried to squeeze onto the side and there's a rock there and I just like scrapped the front of my car and it's not fun. Joy James I take it you weren't alone if you were embarrassed? Adrianna Nelson No, I had. There were plenty of other people there watching me scrape my car. Joy James That's the only embarrassment. That's money. I'm sorry to hear about that. All right. Next question is, what is your must have piece of outdoor gear or equipment? Adrianna Nelson I always have my binoculars, always, always, always, always. And I also usually have a camera. And it was my family's. It's just a canon point and shoot. But I kind of adopted it as my own. So, it's mine now. But I usually have that too. And I take pictures of plants and bugs and fungus and mosses and birds and everything. So, see, those are like my two things. Joy James And if you were, say, a must have for binoculars, is there a certain size or is it magnification. Adrianna Nelson Yeah. So I have two pairs and one is an eight by 42 and one is a ten by 42 and usually an eight times or ten times is a pretty good magnification and times 32 or 42 is usually a good range. You can get less or more than that, but that's usually the typical ones. Joy James Something else too, I would share with the listeners is binoculars sometimes are a little hard to figure out and then once you figure it out, they're pretty good. So, I might even look for a resource to share how to how to use your binoculars. Because I know it took me a while to figure that out. I'd be like, where? I can't see it. Yeah. And birders actually help me figure out how to use my binoculars. All right. So last question. What is your favorite local spot here in the high country? Adrianna Nelson Oh, man. Joy James I know. There's a lot of them. Adrianna Nelson There is. Yeah. So, I really like Trout Lake at Moses Cone. I think that's probably my favorite just because it's a really great spot for Warblers and I've been there several times and I've gotten 11 species of warblers in one day and I think four species of thrushes and on. Wow, that flushed a nice barred owl out of a tree. And I found this family of it's a type of woodpecker called a yellow bellied sap sucker. I know that's a weird name for anybody who's not familiar with bird names, but so it was really cool. Joy James I'm going to have to show you this picture. I think it's a yellow belly sucker. And I found this log. It had all this little hole, the woodpecker holes and. Yeah, here, I'll see if you'll be able to see this. Adrianna Nelson Oh, yeah? Yeah. Joy James Is that yellow belly? Adrianna Nelson It is, yeah. Joy James And how do you know it's a yellow belly sap sucker? Adrianna Nelson Well, it looks like it to me on the picture, but they actually drill sap wells instead of just drilling normal holes. And so, this film was SAP and they drink the sap out of it and sometimes bugs come and get stuck in it too, and they'll eat the bugs out of that. Joy James That's exactly what they look like in a little well up. This was on the Trout Lake Trail. Go on up towards Rich Mountain. Adrianna Nelson Okay. That's where I saw the little family of them. Yeah. Joy James The tree is down by that little pond and that's where I saw this. So, I wonder if. Anyway, we're such nerds. Let's see. Adrianna Nelson I just wanted to say a couple of, like, cool things about birds, because some people, I don't think, understand how cool they are. Yeah, a lot of birds migrate over the Gulf of Mexico, so they fly nonstop over the ocean. And so, hummingbirds are one of those birds. They're called trans gulf migrants. And they fuel up. They get like really fat while they're in Mexico, in the Yucatan Peninsula, and then they fly nonstop over the ocean. And whenever they get to the United States, they weigh, I believe, a 10th of an ounce. They weigh like less than a penny, which is incredible. Joy James How long does it take them to fly across the ocean? Adrianna Nelson I can't remember. Over the Gulf. I think it's a couple of days maybe. Joy James That's incredible. No rest. They're just flying constantly. Adrianna Nelson Right? Right. Yeah. And hummingbirds actually have the biggest pectoral muscles relative to their body size out of any animal. So, they're really, really tiny birds. But their muscles are so big for their bodies. Joy James They seem to eat a lot, too. Yeah. Adrianna Nelson And they actually go into torpor at night sometimes when the temperatures drop really low. So, it's kind of like a hibernation. So that's something cool too, that I don't think people realize the hummingbirds kind of do mini hibernation, but it gets really cold, which is really. Joy James Neat as cool. Adrianna Nelson But some birds migrate pretty much constantly, like arctic terns that go 26,000 miles pole to pole. They're constantly keeping up with spring, so they're always flying basically to where it's springtime and where the insects are emerging. And they can eat bugs pretty much year round. And I believe, was that a god? What maybe the type of shorebird it flies from Alaska to New Zealand nonstop over the ocean. There are some pretty interesting migrants out there. Joy James What's so fascinating to me, because I when I first heard about the life list for a birder, it takes a lifetime. Adrianna Nelson Yeah. Really? Just to. Joy James See. And then, like you said, you just you're constantly honing your skill set and you're meeting other people and you're pursuing it. And it sounds like to me, too, the birds never cease to amaze you. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, there's always something new to see. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. Joy James All right. Anything else you want to share? Adrianna Nelson I keep talking all day. Joy James I know. Adrianna, thank you so much for being willing to talk to us on Outdoorosity. And we just really appreciate your time. Adrianna Nelson Yeah, thank you. Becki Battista As we wrap up the interview, we want to share some resources for you. Check out various Audubon Society chapters like the Appalachian Audubon Society or locally in Boone, the High Country Audubon Club. You can join online groups to learn more about birds and meet like minded birders. Another great option to help you get into birding are apps on your phone like I, naturalist Merlin, Bird ID or Citizen Science. Citizen Science is an official government Web site designed to accelerate the use of crowdsourcing and citizen science across the U.S. and allows you to report different species of birds in your area. And on a more lighthearted side, you could watch the movie The Big Year 2011, a comedy which features Owen Wilson, Jack Black and Steve Martin, where the plot includes three bird enthusiasts who are attempting to gain the record and spotting and identifying the most number of birds. And here, I appreciate how Adrianna makes someone else hike first on the trail so she doesn't have to clear out spiders, which, if you have not experienced, is like having superglue on your face and you cannot get it off. Fun fact birding is the number one outdoor recreation activity because we all have access to watch birds. We want to thank Adriana and Joy for sharing their stories. And as we sign off, we want to end with a quote by Marty Rubin. Every bird, every tree, every flower reminds me what a blessing and a privilege it is to be alive.

8. 

   18 Apr 2023

   Ep.07 - Lauren Moody - Inclusive Health

   While attending App State, Lauren Moody discovered her love for backpacking. On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Lauren shares some of her favorite experiences getting outside. Lauren and Joy also discuss the importance of making the outdoors a welcoming space for all. Show Notes Wild: From Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail by Cheryl Strayed A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson https://outdoorafro.org/ (https://outdoorafro.org/) https://latinooutdoors.org/ (https://latinooutdoors.org/) https://www.rei.com/blog/hike/pattie-gonia-backpacking-queen-releases-her-first-full-length-video (https://www.rei.com/blog/hike/pattie-gonia-backpacking-queen-releases-her-first-full-length-video) https://fatgirlshiking.com/ (https://fatgirlshiking.com/) https://tnstateparks.com/parks/roan-mountain (https://tnstateparks.com/parks/roan-mountain) Contact Information: laurenlmoody@gmail.com Instagram handle is @laurenl_m Transcript Becki Battista Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity where we encourage you to get outside and KEEP going outside. Here we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire, and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and KEEP you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play on health, the environment, and human development. The vision of the HOPE Lab is to continue developing the perfect foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out on hopelab.appstate.edu Hi, my name is Becki Battista, a professor in Exercise Science and self-proclaimed physical activity addict. I am your host for the Appalachian Outdoorosity podcast today. On today’s interview, team member Dr. Joy James, a professor in Recreation Management, interviews Lauren Moody. Appalachian State University student Lauren Moody, of Marietta, Georgia, was recognized for outstanding leadership and service — she was the recipient of a 2020 Community Impact Student Award from North Carolina Campus Compact, a statewide network of colleges and universities committed to community engagement. While at the University she picked up the hobby of backpacking. Listen as she shares her experience and thoughts on how to make the outdoors a space for all. Joy James We want to welcome you to our podcast, Lauren, and thank you so much for being willing to talk to us today. Lauren Moody Yeah, thank you. I'm excited. I'm a little nervous, but excited to be here. Joy James Could you tell us a little bit about yourself, what your major is, where you're from, and what year you are here at App? Lauren Moody Yeah. So I am a senior here and it's exciting going into my last year. Yeah, I'm originally from outside of Atlanta, Georgia, so I'm about like five, 6 hours away from Boone, so a little bit far from home. I'm actually an interdisciplinary studies major, so it's a little wacky but kind of fun and cool. My program of study focuses on community development, so the way I view community development in like how I've kind of approached my program study is looking at really how culture influences the way communities develop and like how culture kind of converges with different things like government and like economic policy and how it all comes together to affect like how people build physical institutions in community, but also like that sociological sense of belonging. Joy James Sounds like you’re going to be doing a lot of community building and work in the future. Lauren Moody Yes, definitely. Joy James That's the goal. One other question. What are your favorite outdoor activities? Lauren Moody Backpacking, definitely, because I think it's just like a really cool, immersive experience outdoors. But just on a day-to-day basis, because you can go backpacking every day or like every weekend, I really do just enjoy going on like a good walk outside, just being in nature because I think that's one of the really important parts of advocating for people spending time outdoors. It doesn't have to be this big intimidating thing like backpacking. It can just be going to the Greenway and going for a walk. Joy James Absolutely. I agree with you. I love doing all those things. But like you said, with the planning and day to day are only an hour at a time. It's nice to be able to have those green spaces to go out to and just kind of do the outdoors. Lauren Moody Definitely. Joy James How did you first get interested in outdoors or nature or being able to enjoy these types of activities? Lauren Moody Yeah. So before coming to Appalachian State, I definitely had a deep appreciation for outdoor spaces. My family, when I was growing up, spent a fair amount of time in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, the most beautiful place ever. It's somewhere that's really important, especially to like my dad's side of the family, him and like his dad had always gone on fly fishing trips there. Then it became something that was important to like my individual family as well. My brother's name is Jackson even, which I always think he's named like for Jackson Hole. I'm never exactly sure I should check with my parents on that. I think he is literally named for Jackson Hole. So, it's a place that is very important to my family and we have a lot of great shared memories there. But yeah, so that's kind of where I guess I developed my appreciation for just being able to spend time in places that seemed less touched by other things in the world, being from outside of Atlanta or living in a suburb, it is city life. I think city life is great. But there's also this other aspect of appreciating the wilderness. Before coming to App State, that's kind of been my relationship with the outdoors, but I didn't necessarily participate in a ton of outdoor recreation. I'd go on like hikes sometimes, but I never backpacked until freshman year. So yeah, that's when I went on my first backpacking trip and yeah, it was just a super cool experience and it became something that I really have enjoyed doing and get a lot out of. Joy James Cool. Two things. Did you ever fly fish? Lauren Moody I have done fly fishing before. Yeah. I would go sometimes with my dad and my brother when we were at Jackson Hole. Yeah. I mean, it's not something where like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. I would like to do it more because I think it's interesting. And like, like I said, it's something that's important to my dad, especially and his dad and even my brother now. So it's something I definitely would like to do more one day, but I have not done a ton of fly fishing. Joy James Well, the reason I asked about some of the research that I've done in the past looks at how people become comfortable in outdoor settings and in particular activities like hunting and fishing don't always translate into the female experience. Unless they have a father or a brother or significant other who might take them out. Then the fact that you've had some of that base experience outdoors and doing some fishing made you comfortable so that you could be uncomfortable in backpacking, right? Like it was building up that skill set. And so kind of transitioning over to your backpacking. It sounds like that's become a passion of yours. How did you find out about it? At App like I mean, what got you? What was the trip or what did you do that kind of lift the fire for you. Lauren Moody Yeah. So freshman year it was, it was a big group of people, it was a pretty big group to go backpacking. I want to say it was eight people, which is like a pretty big group, but it was just a group of people I'd been hanging out with. And about half of the people that went on that trip had previous backpacking experience. The other half myself included, had no experience. So it was definitely interesting. That trip as a whole, can I go into it? It was a wild trip, but it remains one of my favorite backpacking memories just because of how wild and kind of poorly planned it was. It turned out to be great. I obviously really enjoyed myself. It was Mount Mitchell outside of Asheville area. We did the Black Mountain Crest Trail; I think it's called. I remember I wasn't really involved in the process of picking the trail or anything because, like, what do I know? I knew that was the trail we were doing and I looked it up before we left. I remember reading it was only for expert hikers. This trail is extremely strenuous. But I never said anything because I was like, “Oh, maybe we were just like not doing that part of the trail. It'll be fine.” But yeah. So, we started hiking at four in the afternoon, maybe, and I think we were planning on hiking like three miles. That was supposed to be like three miles into a campsite and we just could not find the campsite. We just kept on hiking and hiking. The trail was extremely strenuous. It goes over, I think it's like three like ridges. So it'd be like, you're going to go straight up and like, straight down, straight up, straight down. Pretty much. No in between. It’s a ton of rock scrambling. At one point there's even like a rope you have to use to, like, gently repel yourself down. We just kept on hiking and we were like, “Oh my gosh, where is this campsite?” We were hiking into the night. It was probably like ten when we finally found our campsite. One guy didn't even have hiking boots on. He was wearing sneakers. So yeah, it was just definitely a wild first backpacking experience. I think that's kind of what made it so great. I was like, “Holy crap, I've never done anything like this before. And like, this trail's really hard and like, I'm really struggling and it's difficult, but like, I'm still getting a lot out of it, having a lot of growth from it.” Joy James I'm glad you explained that because part of the question a lot of people ask is like, why would you put a backpack on that is 35, 45 pounds, go up and down hills into the darkness and still want to come out doing it again. Lauren Moody Yeah, it's a lot I always love. It's like I think it's a recreation management theory, like type one versus type two fun. I love that theory. I think I like backpacking. For me, it definitely has type one fun aspects to it, but it's also a ton of type two fun. Joy James Could you help our listeners? What do you mean by type one and type two? Lauren Moody Yeah. So, Type one fun. The way I understand it, type one fun is like you're having fun while you're doing the activities. You’re doing it and you're like, “This is great. Nothing's wrong right now. I'm having a great time.” And then Type two fun is during the experience. So, you may be like, “Gosh, this is so hard. I am really struggling. I maybe don't want to be doing this anymore, but like I'm going to push through.” But then you're able to look back on the experience and be like, “Huh! I actually gained a lot out of that. And like even though it was hard, it was good that I did that.” Joy James Cool, perfect. Did anyone tell you how to pack your backpack or how did you get your gear? Like, if you've never done it before, how did you go about figuring it out to be able to even get out to the trail? Lauren Moody Thankfully, like I said, about half of those people that went on the trip had previous backpacking experience. So, they were able to give me some guidance. And also, my brother had gone to Appalachian State and he was still here in my freshman year. He was a recreation management major largely involved with outdoor programs. He gave me one of his old backpacks. He was also super helpful in the process of preparing me for it, letting me borrow gear and stuff. Joy James Recreation majors are all over. I didn't realize you were related to one. I'll ask you about that later. Lauren Moody Okay. haha Joy James So how many more backpacking trips have you done and have they always been kind of with a group of friends or have you done anything kind of formally with OP or other outfitters? Lauren Moody I have not done any with any formal organizations or anything. I would like to one day because I think it's just a totally different experience for sure. Yeah. They all so far have been just with a group of friends or like with my brother. Yeah, but I would one day love to do a trip with an outfitter. I'm definitely interested in solo backpacking. Ooh. Yeah. Joy James What are you thinking, AT, Pacific Crest or…? Lauren Moody I have been looking into the Pacific Crest Trail a little bit. I don't know if I'll ever actually do it, but I'm definitely interested in it. I think it obviously is an incredibly life changing experience and is an incredibly difficult experience. I kind of like Pacific Crest Trail over the Appalachian Trail, even though they're both obviously incredibly super cool trails and have a lot to offer. Lauren Moody This past spring break I was on a backpacking trip where we were on the Appalachian Trail for a few miles and we actually stayed in a shelter on the AT, which was cool because we got to meet through hikers and get to know a little bit about Appalachian Trail culture. But I think the PCT seems a little bit more interesting. Joy James So, and then how did you know about the PCT before I asked you or the Appalachian Trail. Is that just your friends again. Is that how you heard about it? Lauren Moody Yeah, most of my friends I didn't know much about the PCT until quarantine, actually. It was like, I don't know why. Started looking up stuff about it in quarantine, but it became kind of something. I started researching a little bit. I think I've seen the movie 'Wild' way back in the day and I want to read that book. Joy James I would say you need to read that book. Lauren Moody Uh huh, yeah. And it's on my list for sure. Joy James Another one that's a fun book is, of course, I'm not going to be able to think about it. It's a funny book about a guy. He goes on AT and is overpacked and dumps a lot of stuff. It's less self-help and more funny than ‘Wild’ is. And if I think of it, I'll try to remember before I stopped talking to you. Becki Battista Isn’t Lauren great? I think Joy was ready to go backpacking with her! As you think about what Lauren shared, a short walk in nature can be as impactful as a 3-day backpacking trip! Research shows that being outdoors can help with reducing anxiety, stress and increased academic performance! Daily contact with nature not only helps with stress and fitness, it can help you develop comfort in outdoor environments. She also mentions her discomfort with her first backpacking trip. Yet through the struggles she felt she gained confidence in herself as well as had fun despite the challenge. Today’s podcast is brought to you by the Hope Lab. One of the goals of the Hope Lab is to further understand the impacts of being outside on both physical and mental health and increasing access to the outdoors. Visit appstate.hopelab.edu to learn more. Let’s go back to the interview with Lauren and Joy where they begin to discuss why the outdoors may be intimidating and not as welcoming. Lauren is an advocate for the outdoor space being inclusive. Lauren asks the question: what am I not doing to make outdoor spaces inclusive? Joy James You talked about your major and you're interested in terms of the physical community as well as the kind of the cultural community is backpacking that for you? Is there a community that's kind of that you feel that you're a part of or is it something that's kind of personal for you? Like, how do you see it in the context of your major or your interest as building a community? Lauren Moody Yeah, I was actually glad you asked this question. There's some thoughts and feelings I have in relation to outdoor or community building that I was hoping to get to share and talk about, especially in light of what's going on with the Black Lives Matter movement and how that connects to making all spaces in our life more inclusive. Lauren Moody And I think that it’s definitely an issue or like a barrier to people getting involved in outdoor spaces is that it's a space that's predominantly dominated by white men or like white people in general, but specifically like white able bodied, cisgender men. So, I think in respect to community building, in outdoor spaces, it's like how can we make it more inclusive for people in BIPOC communities or people that aren't traditionally able bodied. So, I think there's all these different things that go into it and it's like I haven't necessarily felt like unwelcomed in outdoors because I'm white, like I'm cisgender and like I'm traditionally able bodied, but I definitely see it being a space that can be really intimidating for a lot of people to come into. Joy James Is there something you could recommend to help us as outdoor professionals or if I’m not able bodied or cisgender or any of those things, how could I get involved or find people who look like me doing this? Lauren Moody Yeah. So, I definitely am not an expert on this. It's just something I like and have become interested in especially. With everything going on and like seeing how we can make all these spaces in our life more inclusive. There is an organization that I actually am a monthly donor to that I think is definitely worth people looking more into and like the work they do and what they advocate for. It's called Soul Track Outdoors and it's based out of Washington DC. They do work predominantly in Washington DC, but they like to hold programs that predominantly work on getting people in BIPOC communities involved in outdoor recreation. So, looking for groups like that that are local to your community and have people that look like you and maybe a group like that doesn't exist. So then it's like it's kind of on us as people that do like exist comfortably in the outdoors to look at ourselves and say, “What am I doing to make this a more inclusive space and what am I doing that makes this space feel not inclusive?” I don't know if I have the answer to that. What can we do to make it more inclusive for people that aren't traditionally represented in the outdoors? Joy James You know, I think, Lauren, what's so interesting, what you're saying is like, I don't have the answer, but I think we should be thinking about it and figuring out ways to be more inclusive or be more comfortable or start talking, having the conversation and inviting people to these experiences. Like you were invited to your backpacking trip and how do I present it so someone doesn't think I'm crazy that I'm taking 50 pounds and going hiking? And because it could be perceived differently from a cultural perspective. Why would I want to go there with everybody. Yeah. A couple of resources in case you're interested. And just for our listeners as well, there's a group, a woman named Rue Mapp started something called Outdoor Afro. Hmm. And it is what she creates. She's trying to show that black people are in the outdoor settings as well as trying to create spaces so more people are willing to come in and join. So she has done some amazing things with her organization. I definitely would check that out in terms of how she's been trying to build community within the outdoors and then Latino Outdoors kind of mimicked what Outdoor Afro is doing. I'd heard of Soul Trak and then I knew more recently there's a group, a gentleman who's a reporter and a professor, and he calls it The Joy Trip. And he recently had a panel discussion on black people in national parks. These are panelists who were pretty prominent in the field, all started by a young woman probably your age, just recently graduated who was like, I want to see more people like me in parks and how do we start having these discussions. So, it was nice for me to know that these discussions are going and the frustration is that the discussions are still going. And we want to move it, move the dial. And then one last thing I think is important for you that you'll appreciate as well as our listeners. Have you heard of Pattie Gonia? Lauren Moody Hmm. Yes. Joy James And she actually was here. They did an event through the student affairs. Lauren Moody I saw that but I didn't get to go to it. Joy James I Know I missed it too. I was disappointed because it's been fascinating following her on Instagram and for those of you that are with Pattie Gonia, go check it out on Instagram and it's LGBT. I don't know what their identity is other than dresses. It's a male who dresses and becomes Pattie Gonia and it's just the best name to watch his progress and how he's also been getting sponsors from outdoor places to be able to kind of expose everybody to that space. And be more inviting. So, I think. Yeah. Lauren Moody And also they do a lot of advocacy for things like climate change and things of that nature. Like I think Patagonia came out with a video on Earth Day. Have you seen it? I have. It's phenomenal. And I go back and I watch that video sometimes because it just makes me feel tingly inside because I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, that's what it's all about. Like us coming together to solve these issues. Joy James Well, it's been fun for me to see that outdoor space used and conceived of in a different way. And I think some of my challenges as a cisgender white woman have been, well, this is how I use it and this is how I always envision that was being used. So, to see these spaces being used in different ways and still valued is what's important at the heart of us being able to protect natural areas. All right. Well, Lauren, so we have this other segment that we're going to end every podcast with, and it's called The Dirt on Getting Outside. Lauren Moody Okay. Joy James What we're wondering is, what is your biggest fear in the outdoors? Lauren Moody Okay. It's absolutely bears. I have a very, very deep fear of bears. Yeah, I haven't seen one yet. And, like, I feel like that makes it like…there's just like a buildup to like when I actually do see one. But yeah, I was in the Great Smoky Mountains for a spring break, which is like a very bear, heavy area. And I was like, okay, this is like, it's going to be the time I finally see a bear and I'm going to freak out. But I didn't see one. So, yeah, I have an incredible fear of bears. Joy James I hope your first experience with a bear is positive. Lauren Moody Thank you. Yeah, I don't know. It's just like I think bears are like they can basically do anything but fly. Like, they're just the most like, I don't know, the strongest creatures that exist. They're so terrifying to me. Joy James Understood, I will tell you, I'm more afraid of bears in the West than I am black bears here. Lauren Moody Grizzly bears. Yeah! are like a whole different thing. Joy James Yeah, it's a whole other level of fear for me. I agree with you. It's. It's it's. Yeah. So our next question is, what is your most embarrassing moment outdoors? Lauren Moody Oh, I don't know. I have to think about this. Just like in general. And, like, I guess this is something, like, interesting to talk about, and, like, even, like, me feeling intimidated in my outdoor spaces, even though, like, I am someone that has a ton of people that look like me, that participate in it, like I don't consider myself a traditionally athletic person. So it is intimidating for me sometimes to like go on these super long hikes and feel like I get more tired than everyone else does. Lauren Moody I'm a super slow hiker and like that, I kind of feel embarrassed a lot of times. I'm like, Oh, I'm so slow and everyone else feels like, so much quicker than me. So I don't know. That's not like a moment. Joy James No, but you know what? I think you're dead on. I always felt like I'm not going fast enough or I'm not able to keep up. And while it may not be embarrassing, it is an internal, um, kind of, it maybe is an internal embarrassment. And how do I overcome that or keep going out and not beat myself up. Lauren Moody Yeah, for sure. You have to overcome it, but it definitely is hard when you're like, “yeah, you feel like all these other people, like they just killed that hike and like x number of times and I'm back here struggling.” Yeah, it's definitely intimidating. Joy James That's the word. Yeah, I'm intimidated by it. But, you know, the only thing I would say to you is you're still out there doing it and someone else is not out there doing it. So that is the great thing. What is a must have outdoor tip or item you would take with you if you're going to go backpacking and like what can you not live without when you're on an outdoor backpacking trip? Lauren Moody This is an interesting question too. Maybe toilet paper. I know a lot of people are super intimidated by pooping in the outdoors and like it's super intimidating experience the first time you do it. But I think that everyone should poop in the outdoors basically. I think it's a must have experience in your life. But yeah, I've talked to so many people that have been on multi-day backpacking trips and they're like, I did not poop the whole time because I couldn't bring myself to do it. But I think it's something you should push yourself to do. Joy James Agreed. All right. What is your favorite local spot? Lauren Moody One of my favorite places. Or like maybe my favorite place I've ever been backpacking, even though I've been backpacking them like Zion in Utah, which is like the most beautiful place. But Roan Mountain, I think, is just a ridiculously beautiful place. And it's also a really great beginner backpacking trip. It's definitely a must go spot because it's accessible to like a lot of different people and also just incredibly beautiful. One of the most beautiful sunrises I've ever seen was on Roan. Joy James Roan is like 45 minutes from here. So it's Roan Mountain State Park in Tennessee. Did you do that or was it the Catawba gardens and then you went up that trail? I can't remember if it is the Art Loeb Trail or? Lauren Moody I don’t know what it is called, we went to the highest bluff. I think. So it's only like I think, I don't know, maybe like two and a half or like three miles up on the highest bluff. But then you can keep on going. And I think you hit the Appalachian Trail and there's like there's a huge shelter on it, but I haven't been up that far. Joy James Okay, so you've made it all the way to that bluff for that beautiful sunrise. (speaking fades out as music rises) Becki Battista The outdoors is not always a space that feels welcoming due to a variety of reasons - weather, critters, no cell service, risky, difficult and more. Lauren was able to get into backpacking because some friends invited her into the space and she felt comfortable in outdoor settings. In all recreation, we seek the ability to choose what we enjoy and sometimes that choice is constrained by barriers. Two such barriers are if you do not see people who look like you (gender, identity, BIPOC & etc.) and you do not feel comfortable in outdoor environments. Lauren has some great insights into beginning to overcome these two barriers. For people who are comfortable outdoors, let’s invite people into these spaces with us! For those of us who need to build our comfort level in outdoor settings, take a walk daily on the Greenway or across campus which can help build your comfort in nature. Find social media that builds community and helps you find others who are getting outdoors. Lauren and Joy mentioned several organizations that are helping to connect people with each other to enjoy outdoor spaces See our notes for this episode for links to help you get connected with these organizations. We want to thank Lauren for sharing her experiences and insights. Thank you for listening to our show today. Remember “Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass — it’s about learning to dance in the rain.”

9. 

   11 Apr 2023

   Ep.06: Gaining Confidence in the Outdoors

   On this episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity, Dr. Becki Battista, a professor in App State's Department of Public Health and Exercise Science, interviews Heidi Campbell of App State's Counseling & Psychological Services Center and Katie Whitley — now with Wake Forest University Counseling Center — about their experiences and advice on how to gain confidence outdoors. Transcript Joy James Welcome to Appalachian Outdoorosity where we encourage you to Get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active, outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the HOPE lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play on health, the environment, and human development. The vision of the HOPE lab is to continue developing the perfect foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Joy James, I am a professor in Recreation Management at Appalachian State University and an outdoor lover. I will be your host today. On this episode we will talk to 2 counselors from the App State Counseling and Psychological Services Center. Outdoorosity team member, Dr. Becki Battista, a professor in exercise science, interviews Heidi Campbell and Katie Whitley who provide more details about their experiences in the outdoors, advice on how to get outside and gain confidence in the outdoors. Becki Battista I want to welcome and thank you guys for coming to our podcast. So, Heidi Campbell and Katie Whitley are from App State’s Counseling and Psychological Services Center. We’re going to talk about nature and being outside. So, Katie, let's have you go first. Why did you come to App State and what your favorite outdoor activity is? Katie Whitley Well, it's great to be here. My name is Katie and I am completing my doctoral internship here at App State in the counseling center. So that means I'm working here this year. And I think that what drew me to App State was the outdoors. I've always been someone who loves being outside, loves moving my body, loves being in green mountainous spaces. And my favorite outdoor activity is hiking. So the thought of being able to come here and get this amazing training in psychology and counseling and every weekend, like dragging my partner outside to go hiking, I was like, “That sounds like a perfect combination to me.” So that's definitely what drew me here to App State and I've loved it so far. Becki Battista Great. Thank you. Yeah, there's lots of places to hike around here. That's, I think, one of the benefits of living in this area. Heidi, how about you? So where are you from? Why did you come to App State and tell us your favorite activity? Heidi Campbell Hi, everyone. My name is Heidi Campbell and I am a psychologist and staff counselor at the ASU Counseling Center. I am originally from the Pacific Northwest, so I was born in Seattle, but spent very little time there, moved around a lot in and outside of the U.S. and thinking about my connection to the outdoors, I grew up in a family without much television or video games, so my playground, the outdoors really was my playground. And I think I really thank my parents for instilling that in me and I feel like I  spent my childhood outdoors. I came to Boone and App State over 25 years ago to do my graduate work in App’s Psych department and was really drawn to this area because of the environment and all the natural resources. So I am a real avid outdoor enthusiast. I spent a lot of years in New Hampshire. My family landed in New Hampshire after moving seven or eight different places before I got to high school. We lived in a small town in the middle of the White Mountains, it was a ski resort in the winter. So some of my favorite activities… I do love hiking and camping. More recently, I've gotten really into mountain biking. I would say that is probably what I get most excited about. I love skiing. When we get snow and I get to get out. I have some really old cross-country Nordic gear. So one of my favorite things to do is getting together with a group of women and going out and adventuring. So just the other day I was able to take it out at the Greenway and tromp around in my old cross-country skis. I like going out to our local ski resorts, mountain biking, hiking, trail running. Pretty much anything that gets me out into the woods or wild places. Becki Battista I think the benefit of being here in Boone is we have four different seasons. And so to me, there's not really a barrier to getting outside in any season. I mean, you can still go out in the cold, you can still go out and ski and enjoy the snow. Then, in the summer and the spring, it's just beautiful outside. I like to go on a hikes and to see how beautiful when the rhododendrons are blooming. It's just pretty amazing I think so, yeah. That's pretty cool. So Heidi you kind of talked to us a little about how you first got interested in the outdoors and the influence of your family. Katie, do you have any stories similar to that? Like what really influenced you to get into the outdoors and enjoy hiking and being in nature? Katie Whitley I would also say my family. I love hearing you all talk about how you get outdoors in the winter. I'm originally from Florida. I'm struggling, I'm very cold. But I think that my drive to be outdoors and enjoy nature came from my family. We would go on just big adventures or big trips and then we would usually go hiking or going canyoneering in Utah and like lots of different adventures, lots of different seasons and places. And I think it was, I guess, just as a kid it always filled me with that feeling of like, “this is so exciting, this is so new.” I liked being in situations where I kind of felt small. Like when you're looking out on a really big grand, vast, vista, or you're in a really deep canyon, I think as a kid that feeling comes more easily. But even now, as an adult, that's what I like so much about being outdoors is getting to be part of something that's much bigger than myself, and I feel very connected to the present moment when I'm outside moving my body getting my heart rate up. So yeah, I would say my family definitely instilled that in me. Becki Battista Yeah. And as I think about that, I'm wondering, you know, what advice would you have for somebody that maybe didn't have a family that got them outside? Like, how do we encourage somebody? I mean, being outside has some barriers to that and can be a little intimidating if you've never been out there. I mean, there's some scary things in the woods. My biggest fear is seeing a bear. I have not seen one in the 13 years I've lived here, but I still look around the corner and wait for that to come out and my friends make fun of me for it. But, it's kind of fun right now to think about it. But then, if it ever did happen to me, I'm like, I don't really know what I would do, but what are some suggestions that you both might have in terms of if somebody hasn't been outside, how do they get started? Katie Whitley I think in some ways we really saw this during the workshop that we led together, the nature centered mindfulness workshop in which we met with students in a small group. We were outdoors kind of leading a hike, doing some like five senses, scavenger hunt type things. And because we were kind of leading that, it was a new experience for all of them. I think they’d probably have been outdoors, but maybe they hadn't been to the nature preserve and you know most of them came by themselves. It was a totally new experience. So, I think that sometimes being able to be a little bit vulnerable or putting yourself out there in a small way, you can reap some really big rewards and benefits because we saw how surprisingly, even though it was just an hour and a half, we were like walking around talking that the students really seemed to connect with each other. And we heard them make plans to go have dinner together after this hike. Heidi and I were just so excited to bring that connection to those students. So, I think sometimes doing those activities if you’re new with other people, maybe someone that you already know or trust and also like even if you're trying to start a new friendship or a new idea of going outdoors for yourself, like acknowledging that it can be a little nerve wracking at first, and that's not uncommon. Heidi Campbell I would echo, I think often if you haven't grown up or been exposed to that, it doesn't feel comfortable or natural. It can feel more intimidating and daunting than it actually is. It's sort of like I equate it to how I feel a lot of times about technology where it feels like, Really, I didn't, I didn't. I'm not a digital native. I didn't grow up, you know, learning a lot of that. I had to learn it as I go and kind of jumping into it and not being afraid to ask for help, but also just having the courage to give it a try. I think what a lot of people find is that it's not as scary as it seems. Also,  that's how you get more confident and comfortable just by doing it and learning. I remember early on having some kind of hysterical experiences around gear of like the stuff I would bring or not bring and feeling really embarrassed about that. But then you learn next time I'm going to, you know, make sure I have just this one thing that makes a big difference. I think about doing it with other people, too. And if you don't have friends or family or people familiar to you, you know, maybe joining a group like an outdoor program trip or something organized where you have the security of somebody instructing or guiding or providing a gear list. So, just be willing to go for it and take that risk and realize that there are going to be things that don't go great and things that go well and you'll learn from it and next time feel a little more comfortable. Becki Battista Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I also kind of grew up in a family that really encouraged us to be active and go outside. And my favorite experiences really were at my grandparent’s cabin in the woods and just playing in the woods was just really fun. Then when I came here and I met some faculty members and some friends that go outside, a lot, you know, they started taking me places.  There are still a few friends that I have that I know that they like to take risks and I'm aware of that, but I trust them that everything's going to be okay. Like they know some things that I don't know and I know some things that they don't know. And so in some ways, going with one of them, I know what the activity is going to be. I know that I can kind of rely on them a little bit for my concerns, but I also know that they're aware of my fears too. So, I think going with people is really kind of fun and you learn a lot and then you learn people's strengths and weaknesses and can go as a group. So, I think that's really some great points that you guys bring up. So, we kind of talked a little bit too about kind of becoming comfortable in the outdoors and maybe equipment. So, what is one thing that you always like to bring with you when you go outside? Like, what's that one thing that always needs to come along? Katie Whitley Well, I feel like this doesn't fall quite under equipment, but I have been known to get really excited about a hike and just like to jump out into it and not bring any food. So, snacks are really important. I think I get so wrapped up in like, you know, going up the trail, getting really excited and I realize I've left my partner behind and he's like, “Where's the food?”  And I’m like, “I don't have it. I thought you were bringing it.” So, I would say food because I think not being “hangry” helps to keep you in the present moment and enjoying what's going on for you, enjoying the climb, getting up that trail. Actually now I really love stopping along the way and like sitting and having a snack and talking with the people that I'm hiking with and just knowing that like you don't have to rush to get to like the view or the final place. I think the journey is also important and it's important to fuel yourself. Heidi Campbell I have several pieces of gear that I love and have become attached to. Like I am very, very in love with my mountain bike. But that's a more kind of elaborate thing. But in terms of just like day-to-day gear, especially if I'm out on something a little bit more extended, warm socks to me just have almost like karmic power. If I'm like on a multi-day or even like a long, long day being able to change socks, even if I'm just out for the day, like I will pack warm fuzzy socks to change into or out of my hiking shoes or boots or my mountain biking shoes or like when I get out on my ski boots. I just I love the comfort of warm socks. I would say in terms of practically probably my raincoat, I learned the hard way early on to not be prepared to stay dry. Gear has come a long way. And you know, I think we're fortunate in this area because we have Re-Gear where people can go, students can go and find more affordable, good gear that is lightweight. I have had like learned the hard way and over the years, just like, have a nice, lightweight, pretty foolproof, rain proof jacket that comes with me that can roll into a little ball and go into, like, a fanny pack or a backpack, but warm socks, knowing that I have those there like to change into, makes me happy. Becki Battista Yeah, I have to think about that next time I go out that's a really nice added benefit to on your finishing anything because I know in the summer I like to just take my shoes off. I mean because your feet are just kind of swollen and just feels good. I have kind of a hand thing, so I always like my hands to be warm, so I've got to change my gloves and make sure that my hands are safe, nice and comfortable too. So that's pretty cool. I enjoy your stories and your favorite items that you have. One of the other things we can kind of think about is like, how do you think you’ve become more comfortable in the outdoors? We kind of talked about this a little bit, but are there other ideas about comfort like how did you become more comfortable on some of the things that you have done in your past? Katie Whitley I think it definitely helps to have some of those early experiences where I was doing those things with other people. But, I also know that for me, being outdoors brings that sense of curiosity and excitement, like being able to explore, you know, or see something that you've never seen before. Like I've never looked off of this, you know, like Blue Ridge outlook and seeing this, you know, expansive view before. So, it's kind of like I'm really enjoying seeking out those new experiences. So I think it brought me a little bit of comfort to know that like some of these things I can choose if I don't want to go all the way on a really, really long hike that lasts all day long, like, maybe like my body's not up for that today. Maybe for today, I just want to, you know, move my body in a gentle way or what would make me feel really connected to nature today. Sometimes that is a super long hike where you need those warm socks and you need those experiences, but sometimes it's just getting outdoors and driving along the parkway. So, I think even acknowledging for yourself what will make you feel the most comfortable and then kind of building on that over time because there's no one right way to be outdoors. And I think even hearing your experiences, like we all have different experiences of hiking or mountain biking and how long we go for and like what we like to bring, which I think is really powerful. Like if we all went on a hike together, we would all bring different, important pieces that would help us to have a good time and have a great experience. Heidi Campbell I mentioned growing up in a family that really got me outside, but I was really blessed to go to a high school in New Hampshire that had a really active outing program, so similar to our local high school here. Watauga Mountain Alliance offers this fabulous opportunity for any student, regardless of financial means, to be able to get out and do regular trips and extended trips. So,  I had a high school that had an out outing club that I was really active in and where we would just go out pretty regularly. I feel like thinking back on that, I got exposed to all different kinds of weather and places and environments that stretched me sometimes. One of the programs that we did in my high school was in the middle of the winter in New Hampshire, in the White Mountains. It was a ten-day program for all during junior year, third year of high school that included a solo experience in the middle. It was a three day solo and when I look back at that, I'm like, yikes, I can't believe they had us all do that I got through that. But so, I think the more experiences you have that kind of stretch you where you realize, “I can, I can be in like a downpour and get through that or be in the cold and learn to kind of survive that or figure out that.” There's so much that is unpredictable in the outdoors and novel. I think learning that you can kind of face those challenges. I think about just spending time. Then, the other piece for me I think is having worked at camps right after college as a like a camp counselor. I led trips and got some learn some hard skills such as like for example just getting comfortable like it was really daunting to me like setting up a tent and a stove and things like that or and so getting some experience, getting some instruction in that to where I just felt like the more, I did that now if I were to try today, I'd have to be really rusty because I haven't done that in a while. So, I think taking advantage of, you know, classes you might take, you know, around, like if you're somebody that gets really excited about it, maybe you decide to take like a wilderness first aid class so that you feel comfortable if there was an emergency that came up or if you're going to be doing more mild outdoor activities, becoming familiar with like reading a map. Just learning some of the skills that just like I had just signed up to do like a bike maintenance class for women because that's an area that feels really scary to me if I'm like out on a trail and I can do basic bike maintenance, but not a lot beyond that. So, I am going to try to do this series of classes where I can really understand how to fix my bike and not have to rely on other people around me, which often tends to be men who have those skills. That's been helpful for me and being more comfortable and getting to pick up some of those skills along the way. Becki Battista Yeah, and I think that's a great point, you that there is no one way to do outside activity. You can do activity outside however you want. And I think that's the important piece to think about. You can go stay outside and camp for, you know, a day or five days or you can just go and drive on the parkway and look at the overlook. Any of that still as being outside. You’re still kind of getting that benefit in terms of mental health, physical health, and just looking at something that's just absolutely beautiful and just breathe. And so I think that's a benefit of us living in the environment and the area that we live in is that we have those opportunities and that's kind of nice because I do think we can do it however we want to do it. We can be active outside in whatever way fits us best. And then the more comfortable we come with those short bouts, then the longer bouts become a little bit easier and a little bit more comfortable. That's great. Joy James Listening to these stories hopefully makes you think about ways you can get outside or new things you wish to try. Putting yourself out there, while challenging, can lead to great experiences, new friendships and an increased self-confidence. Evidence suggests exercise outside can lead to greater feelings of increased energy, motivation and a positive engagement compared to exercise indoors. Additionally, recent research has indicated decreases in tension, anger and depression are also associated with being active outside. One of the goals of the HOPE Lab is to further understand the impacts of being outside on both physical and mental health.  Visit www.appstate.hopelab.edu to learn more.  Now let’s listen to more stories and experiences from Heidi and Katie! Becki Battista Okay, so tell us a story about an outdoor experience that has influenced you. It can be something funny, any lesson learned. So, what is one particular event that really kind of influenced you? Katie Whitley I feel like I have so many. I am thinking about a time in which I went on a trip with my family and we were canyoneering and like going deep down like into a canyon and then hiking back up probably somewhere within like Utah or like the Four Corners states. It was like an intense experience and it was really fun up until the point that we had to rappel down into like a ravine and no one had prepared me for that. I don't know how to do that. The guides were really kind and really nice. And I watched, I think maybe like my dad went down first and I was like, “okay, I can, I can do that.” A lot of like false confidence there, but I kind of like rappelled down over the edge. And then I looked down behind me, which was my first mistake, and I got really scared. I kind of just like, like a pinball machine, just like pinballed back and forth between the walls of this ravine just hanging on to this rope. And, you know, I made it down eventually, but I think the way that that influenced me is that it was really scary and it was something that came up in the middle of a trip that I was like, I had no idea I needed to do this. And I think that it really helped to make me feel more, I guess adaptable, but also just acknowledged that, like, you can do hard things and feel a little bit scared and keep going. We still then went deeper into this ravine and then hiked all the way back up out of the ravine and had lots of like funny stories after that. Like my mom’s shoe literally, like, broke open and we had to like tie it together and you know, even to this day, like we talk often about that trip and about I remember that time that Katie was like a pinball, you know, like, you know, being able to share those memories with the people around you I think is really important. So, I feel like that had a big influence on not letting hard things keep you kind of like what you were just saying, like not feeling a bit overwhelmed or scared or nervous, keep you from doing something that will be an awesome experience. Like, did it hurt a little bit? Yes, but it's a really good story that I love that is a part of my family now. Heidi Campbell So, I think I mentioned that I spent my high school years in New Hampshire and it's a pretty mountainous state. And there is this legendary area on the side of Mount Washington called Tuckerman Ravine, which is this kind of head wall that you can ski. During certain times of the winter there’s conditions where you can ski it. You have to hike in. It's kind of a big adventure and you hike in for like an hour, an hour and a half with all your gear and then you hike around the side of the head wall and then you can ski down. And so, this was sometime toward the end of high school or early college. I was with a group of friends. Part of why this story is so memorable to me is the people that I was with. Most of my fond memories in the outdoors have to do with the companionship of being with friends or family. And you know, the story, the adventures that you share and the memories that you make. So, this was a group of friends, so we were all pretty young. I think this might have been the first time for most of us up there, but  one of the friends I was with had a dog, their dog with them, and before we knew it, the dog had climbed up and gotten into this really precarious part, like up on the top of the head wall where they were obviously like panicked and we could hear them sort of yelping and they could not get down. They couldn't go up. They couldn't, they were stuck. And so, my friend and I, without thinking, we were not being very thoughtful or rational as sometimes happens and you know, because this animal was in danger we just started going after it. I think we were probably in our ski boots and were hiking up this head wall and we got ourselves into a really precarious position that could have actually been pretty scary. I laugh about it now, but at the time it was pretty scary where we were sort of hiking and we looked down and there's like running water beneath us, like the meltwater of this snowy head wall that if we had, you know, fallen through could have been really dangerous. So, we look at each other and, you know, we're trying to get this dog and we are just stuck and panicked and like the dog, we can't really go any farther. We can't go back down because of where we were. It all ended up being, okay, somebody came to assist and we got the dog and we were able to get down safely but that adventure stands on my mind because I learned a lot of things and one of them was just the value of being and trusting people that are with you, but also being able to stay calm in situations. Because, I think if we had panicked and tried to really react in that moment, we, you know, might have fallen through the snow that we were on. I think about that often when I'm in situations that scare me or I'll just take a couple of deep breaths and slow down and calm and realize that, you know, I can kind of get myself out of this and rely on other people if needed. So, it's one story that has stuck with me. Becki Battista That is great and we're all happy that the dog was saved, too. Okay. So in kind of our last segment here, we're going to talk about “The Dirt on Getting Outside.” I have a few questions for both of you. And my first question is, what is your biggest fear? Katie Whitley Well, coming from living in Miami…living in Florida, My biggest fear is sharks. I'm terrified of sharks. I don't go in the ocean. Let's say it sounds really counterproductive for someone who should be enjoying the ocean. Like, I'm not an ocean life snorkeling kind of girl. Like, really could not. Yeah, I really don't want to go into that. Heidi Campbell I do not like feeling out of control. So, I've always kind of lived by this rule. When I’m skiing and mountain biking, I never go faster than I'm willing to hit a tree. I know that sounds kind of strange but I do not like feeling like things are out of control. When I think about being outdoors and some of the activities I do, I tend to like to plan a lot or make less. So even if I'm just going out for the day and my husband, who's also an outdoor enthusiast and my kids will laugh at me, you know, I'll make these lists and I'll pack up the night before to make sure, like, I have everything. So, winging it, you know, just kind of going by the seat of my pants, like, scares the heck out of me. So, yeah, I do not like being out of control. Becki Battista Yeah, I can understand that. I'm probably the slowest one going down the hill. I'm great at climbing a hill, but then down the hill I'm like, “Ooh, I don't know about this. It's a little scary.” Yeah, I completely understand. Okay, so the second question for this section is, what is your most embarrassing outdoor moment that you're willing to share with us? Katie Whitley I just talked about this with Heidi I said, “I don't think I can share my most embarrassing moments,” so I don't want anyone to know about that. But I'll take a moderate, mid-level, embarrassing moment. On one of the last hikes I went on with my friends from grad school back in Louisville, we set out to go on this really beautiful hike that was a circular hike. And the first decision we could have made, like left or right, we picked the wrong decision. We went on the completely wrong trail that ended up being like an out and back ten miles, which we were not prepared to do. I was like, “Why aren't we going in a circle? Does it make any sense?” So, we got very lost and we ended up having to turn around in a graveyard and we were like in the middle of the woods. So, we laugh about it now, but I definitely remember thinking, “I can't wait to get back to the car. I'm very tired.” Heidi Campbell So, I have a tendency to take spectacular falls, like just out of the blue when I am just hiking or backpacking or sometimes running. Sometimes it involves tripping on roots, but I generally feel like I'm pretty coordinated, but when I fall it's kind of like a sack of potatoes. I was out on a trail run on the Mountains to Sea trail, which is a really awesome trail that goes through our area. It iskind of like the Appalachian Trail but it traverses North Carolina, I believe, and just goes right through our community and there's stretches of it that are just so beautiful. So, this was an area east, kind of off the parkway, on the mountains to sea trail. I was running and it was at the end of our run, this beautiful trail, and I tripped. I still don't know what I caught my foot on. I fell so hard that I had mulch from the trail. Fortunately, it was not like Rocky, or particularly there weren't like sharp objects. But I had mulch like in my nose, in my mouth, in my ears. I don't know how I got mulch in so many places. This older couple came up behind me and I think I was kind of in shock and I was just sitting there. I wasn't aware that I was covered in mulch like a Chia Pet. They came up and they were just looking at me like, “What on earth? are you okay? What happened?” I was just kind of like breathing and trying to make sure I hadn't broken any bones. They were looking at me and then I assured them I was okay. I got to my husband who was like way ahead of me, as he always is running…I got to him and he's like looking at me and I realized that have all this mulch like in every, like, space. So, then I realized that's why those people were looking at me like I was some kind of, like, woodland creature. So, one of many embarrassing moments I've had. Becki Battista Yeah, I have a few of those stories too, with some rips in my pants, my leggings from falling, you know. You always seem to fall in front of people like you never fall on your own. You always take your best falls when there's people around and you're like, “Oh, great. Okay!”  Thank you both for sharing that. So, my next question is, what is the must have piece of outdoor equipment that you never leave home without, no matter the weather or conditions? Katie Whitley I would say my boots, I feel like I have a really good pair of boots now and I finally broke them in adequately. So I just love having my boots. And kind of similar to what Heidi said, I love having socks, but for me, it's not so much the warmth. It's like the funky “funness” of the sock. I like to make my socks bright or colorful or have fun things on them, like mountain ranges, things like that. So, I like to coordinate my outfit with my socks. Heidi Campbell I would probably say my water bottle. summer, winter, rain or shine, that's probably something that I would like if I had to pick one thing that I would take with me and also has, you know, some karmic value. I think, like I think of the students that I work with and see when they like come into my office and all the stickers and the ways that you can express yourself with your water bottle that you know, the type of the water bottle, the color and then stickering it up. But yeah, hydration is good. Don't want to get dehydrated. I've definitely had experiences where I've learned the hard way, where I've gotten out and not eaten or not had enough to drink and definitely paid the price and it doesn't feel very good. So, that would be something I would probably always have. Becki Battista Yeah, I think water bottles are kind of like your favorite pen or pencil, right? Like, you can't leave home without it. And it's just that that other pencil just doesn't feel right. I need to have a water bottle with all my favorite stickers on it. Yeah, I totally agree. So, what is your favorite local spot? Where do you like to go? What's your favorite one? Katie Whitley I really loved hiking out to Hebron Falls (Boone Fork Trail). The hike out to the Falls is really good and pretty rigorous in some areas. When you get to the base of the falls it is just huge rocks. I think that speaks to what I shared earlier. I enjoy being in front of something that's so big that it makes you feel kind of small and I love that you can climb up those rocks to get to the top where the waterfall is. It’s just an adventure within an adventure. I've been there so far in the summer, which is really hot and really fun. I got to get into the waterfall a little bit and like to cool off. But, even recently, like in the winter time, some of the water was frozen and just being able to have that adventure and have that big climbing experience and all those different seasons was really exciting to me. Heidi Campbell So, I really love Moses Cone Park. There's something like 27 miles of these carriage trails. It was in an estate of this blue jean-denim baron I think maybe from Greensboro. It was their summer playground. So, they developed it. They had horses and carriages and they developed all these just beautiful trails. It’s so different. Becki was talking about the four seasons and how, you know, just when you're getting tired of winter, spring pops up and you can start to see the flowers and a little bit of warm sunshine and at Moses Cone, you really notice those seasonal changes. There's some lakes and ponds and so they'll freeze over and the colors in the fall there are just beautiful. So, I have really fond memories of when my kids were really little of going out, having them in their baby jogger type of stroller we had where we could push them or run with them out there and they're nice, like gradual trails. So, it's a nice place to take family when they come to visit who maybe aren't as comfortable on steeper or rockier trails. There are so many different trails that you can, you know, not repeat yourself or do the same loop. You could go out there a hundred times and find something new. Becki Battista So yeah, those are my favorite too. I go out there every weekend and run on those trails because they're just simple and it's kind of like it's my safe place, you know, I just it's comfort to me and it feels like home. And just at the end of the week, it allows me to feel kind of more complete. I come home, even though it's cold out or raining out or whatever, I come back home, have my breakfast and a cup of coffee, and I just feel like I finally accomplished something.I just feel so much better. Like, it's just a wonderful feeling. It's my safe place, my sanctity out there. So, as we kind of wrap this up, I do have one last kind of question that we can and a meld a few things together in… If you had one piece of advice for students or faculty staff or really anyone to get outside and expose themselves to nature, like what would be what would be some advice that you would give them? Katie Whitley I guess I would want to share that. I feel like the outdoors is for everyone. Like I've always found it to be a very welcoming space. I think that whether that's you experiencing the outdoors by yourself or with a group of people that you know or a group of people that you're trying to get to know better, there are so many things about the outdoors that I feel like bring people together or allow them to kind of sit with their own thoughts. I think a lot of the things many people do, including myself, are geared at making sure that you're not sitting alone with your own thoughts because sometimes life can be really difficult and really stressful. So, I think I like to imagine the outdoors, whatever season it is, whatever it looks like as a space, it's kind of like you were just sharing kind of like a sanctuary and that it's, it's always there to welcome you with open arms if you want to partake in that and that you can engage with it in whatever way feels comfortable or like what feels right for you. So even like what Heidi was sharing earlier, I feel like it allows a good sense of, I guess, like autonomy or control in that way. Heidi Campbell One thing I would say is to not let fears or other barriers get in the way of just getting outside, that it can be as simple as just stepping outside of your apartment or residence hall and going for a walk. So, it can be just whatever it is you want it to be or need it to be. It is accessible and welcoming to everybody. You know, I think we spend a lot of time in our heads. It's so easy to get in our heads and too much of that isn't good for any of us. And there's something about being outside. It's like it immerses us in all five of our senses, helps us gain perspective that our problems and issues are pretty small. It has just a wonderful, calming and energizing effect on most everybody. And so just to not let those barriers keep you, it doesn't have to be anything elaborate or fancy or require a lot of gear or you have to have certain skills. Just get out in the sunshine, get out in the wind, get out in the rain. You will learn a lot about yourself and also realize that your fears aren't as big as you think they are…Give it a try. Becki Battista I think that's great advice for any of us, really. We do live in a beautiful country, a beautiful area right around here in the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Appalachian region and even our campus is very striking, too. So, I'm very grateful for where we are. Thank you both for talking to us on this podcast today. We will list some resources from your facility on our site, but I appreciate all of your assistance today, so thank you both Heidi and Katie for joining us. Joy James We hope you enjoyed listening to Heidi and Katie talk about why they chose to come to App State and learn more about their experiences in the outdoors. Whether you are considering going hiking, mountain biking, or even skiing, think about ways to make it fun.  Bring your must-have-item like snacks and wear something fun like socks that have karmic power. Above all else, just experiment with the outdoors and see what it may bring to you.  After all, the outdoors is for everyone! We want to thank Heidi and Katie for sharing these stories. As we sign off let’s end with a quote from Henry David Thoreau, “I took a walk in the woods and I came out taller than the trees.” We just want to thank all of our interviewees for sharing these stories. And as we sign off we want to end with a quote and encourage you to get outdoors. From Henry David Thoreau, I took a walk in the woods and came out taller than the trees.

10. 

    15 Mar 2023

    Ep.05: Dressing for the Cold (Part 2)

    Joy talks cold weather adventures with two outdoor experts on this Appalachian Outdoorosity. Bob Riddle and Valerie Kankiewicz share their perspectives on the best way to prepare for and thrive in the chilliest of outdoor scenarios. Ice climbing, sweating in the snow, David Hasselhoff and last but certainly not least The Legend of the Traveling Jorts all await you! So, come on in! The water is ice. Show Notes App State University Recreation (https://urec.appstate.edu/outdoor-programs) How to Dress for Cold Weather, According to Outdoor Adventurers (https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-to-dress-for-cold-weather) What should you wear to run in the cold? Build an outfit with this paper doll (https://www.npr.org/2023/01/19/1150101665/practical-tips-for-exercising-in-the-cold) Transcript Becki Welcome to the Appalachian Outdoorosity Podcast, where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on health, the environment and human development. The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the perfect foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Becki Battista and I am a professor in exercise science at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed physical activity addict. On today's episode, we will continue our conversation with outdoor professionals about what to wear when recreating outdoors in the cold and rain. Outdoorosity team member Dr. Joy James, a professor in recreation management, interviews Appalachian State University's outdoor program team who provide more details about types of clothing and the importance of layering, as well as things to consider in a variety of outdoor activities like backpacking and ice climbing. Why have two episodes on dressing for weather outdoors? Because our aim is to have you enjoy the outdoor activity. While discomfort can be part of the outdoor experience, there are ways to lessen being uncomfortable. Dressing for the weather is significant to a person's willingness to continue to try new outdoor activities. And here at Outdoorosity, we are all about getting people outdoors. Let's get to the interviews. Joy These are two experts from outdoor programs at Appalachian State University. We have Bob and Valerie. First, we'd like to know, Bob, a little bit about yourself. Bob Yeah, so I'm Bob Riddle. I'm originally from southern Ohio, so I grew up in the foothills of Appalachia. I've made my way deeper and deeper here into the mountains over time. Now, kind of in year four of my professional experience here in the outdoors, apart from graduate assistant shifts and working as an undergrad student and outdoors, I'm currently here the coordinator of outdoor programs for Appalachian State University's Outdoor Program at University Recreation. Specifically, some of the things that I do right now is I manage our indoor climbing wall, our outdoor trips program, our broad stone kind of outdoor educational center. And as part of that is our team building challenge course. Joy Thank you! Valerie, I think I will go ahead and switch over to you and have you tell us a little bit about yourself before I start asking questions. So give us a little bit of information about who you are, what you're doing, and anything you think's funny or surprising. Val Thank you. I am Valerie Kankiewicz and I'm the assistant director for outdoor programs here at App State. In this role, specifically right now, I work most closely with our outing center where we handle all of our gear rentals, trip registrations and items of that nature. In addition, our Bike App program that provides free bike tunings and repairs for the App State community. Overall, I just generally oversee the operations of outdoor programs to make sure that we are flowing smoothly and providing great opportunities for everyone. I have been involved in the outdoors since I was little, but I came from a family that was not very interested in the outdoors. I went to summer camp and really built up my own interest that way and one thing that I think is kind of funny is that I don't really like to watch a lot of TV or movies or music or things like that. So I'm often quite ignorant of a lot of quotes that people will talk about or different things. My first day of my first full time job ever, I was working as an aquatics director and my supervisor said to me, referring to a particular lifeguard of ours, “He's a real David Hasselhoff.” Now, I had grown up in this town and I was like, I recognize that name. I said, “I think I know him. Why would I know him?” And now it turns out he's a famous actor and I didn't know that. So I prefer to spend my time outside and not spend a lot of time with my technology. Joy I know a few people like that. Bob, what is your favorite outdoor activity that you enjoy doing? I know you probably have multiple, but if you were to be able to go do something today, what would that be? Bob Backpacking. I really got my start backpacking kind of in West Virginia and through the mountains there. It's something that I've always really valued because for the most part it can be pretty low gear intensive. It's certainly a lot of logistical planning, but on a skill level, it offers a wide variety for really anyone to get involved with. It's a great way to connect with folks or disconnect from folks, depending on what you're looking for. So for me, it's backpacking. You know, similar to Val and what she was saying earlier, I don't come from an outdoorsy background originally. I didn't go backpacking until my freshman orientation program. I grew up playing basketball, baseball, football. My original thought of camping was taking your 30 foot family trailer to the county fair and spending a week with farm animals. I'm certainly not a lightweight backpacker. A quote from a student staff colleague of mine when I was just getting into backpacking that has always stuck with me is, “We're not out here to rough it. You know, we're out here to thrive and do the best that we can with each other and with the supplies that we're given.” I got no problem. You know, throw in some tent poles and carrying a bunch of water and a bunch of food to have a good meal outside. So not on the lightweight side. Joy I love that you're like, we're here to thrive and not to rough it. And I think often many people think backpacking is roughing it and it's just a different form of camping that gets you out in a different way. And and I love the challenge of being able to carry all that gear. All right. Thank you for explaining that. I am going to ping pong between the two of you. Change it up a little bit, Valerie. So can you tell us what your favorite outdoor activity is? If today you could do whatever you wanted to be doing. What would be your choice? Val Ooh, well, that's tough. Somebody I worked with in college leading trip said it best that they were a jack of all trades and a master of none. And I find that defines me. So I really enjoy backpacking. I also really enjoy cycling. I really like winter and outdoor sports. So if I had my option, I would like to go ice climbing. But that's not an option very often. So I'll take cycling or backpacking as well. Joy And it sounds like both of you, come from snow areas originally, right? For some reason I have Iowa on my mind. Valerie and Bob, you said Ohio, but it was southern Ohio you're at. Bob Yeah, I'm originally from Southeast Ohio, about 45 minutes from the border. Any which direction, south or east you go. Val And Joy, you're correct. I went to college in Iowa at northern Iowa and grew up in northern Illinois. I lived in Wyoming for a little bit and between Buffalo and Rochester, New York. So I've seen my fair share of snow. Joy And I asked this because I knew my parents were from Iowa, but I grew up born and raised in Georgia. So Snow was an event in Georgia. And to have snow like we have here in Boone, was kind of a new concept to me. And I mean, I've lived in North Dakota, but I didn't understand wearing a hat. That was a new thing to me. It's like people who come from snow know how to play in it, they know how to dress for it. And it didn't stop them from recreating. And that kind of stunned me as a Southerner going, “Why would you tell the snow and ice climb? Doesn't that that sound like it would be a little bit of a challenge?” But, having been in the snow now, I can see why people enjoy that. All right, Bob, so since we're talking about cold weather, how do you typically dress for a workout or backpacking in colder weather? Bob Yeah, so kind of a rule and principle. I use and this is going to sound kind of backwards maybe to some folks if they're not familiar with it. But I like to actually dress to be cold during the activity, especially if I'm going to be on something that's going to be multi-day, where I don't have the luxury of, you know, driving home at the end of the evening and getting a hot shower and a hot meal and laying down in the bed. I like the dress cold for the activity. The reason I like to do that is I want to be just comfortable enough I can withstand it, but I want to be cold. So I'm not sweating because after that activity, if I'm going to be camping and I know it's going to be cold that evening, that sweat is going to kind of linger and that moisture is going to, you know, freeze in time. So typical rule of thumb for me is hike cold, camp warm. And so having layers with me, but not necessarily wearing all those layers during the activity. Now during a regular day where I'm not doing multi-day stuff, you know, I'll, I'll just pack on as much or as little clothes as I want knowing I can just simply get in a vehicle at the end of the night or in the middle of the day and go get comfortable anywhere. Some of the other things I like to try and be mindful of is not wearing cotton because cotton will retain that moisture. You know, cotton fibers, if we were to draw them microscopically on a board, look like little macaroni noodles, right? The moisture gets in there and holds on to it, like all that golden liquid in kraft cheese you get and then you just stay cold versus you know, wearing something that's more synthetic, like an under armor or a Nike or any off brand. It doesn't need to be name brand. Anything synthetic is going to help wick away that moisture more easily and kind of keep you drier in the long run and hopefully warmer as a result because of that. Joy All right. So Bob let me ask, if you're dressing for cold, what does that mean, one under armor shirt or are you wearing a vest or how do you dress for the cold on a backpacking trip? Bob Yeah, I think that's going to be dependent upon each person. You know, for me, I'm a I'm typically a warmer person. I might wear like one layer, synthetic base layer. So like under armor pants, an under armor long sleeve top. And then because I have a backpack on, sometimes I might have a vest but maybe not if I'm doing something pretty extensive that day and not an easier hike., I might not opt for the vest. If I’m doing, you know, some flat trail somewhere I may throw on my extra vest. My biggest encouragement would be, you know, do some day trips on your own. Find out how warm you are, what you can stand then then kind of build that sense of your own baseline around that. Joy Thank you. All right, Valerie, how about yourself? How do you typically dress for a workout or your recreational activity in the colder weather? Val So much like Bob, I think it's important to kind of dress for the activity. What does that mean? Well, if you're going to be very physically active, you probably should start chilly and then you'll warm up and not have to stop ten, 15 minutes in to take off all these extra layers. And now your base layer, the bottom layer that you're wearing is now soaked in sweat. So I think that helps. But I get cold very easily, so I dress in a lot of layers. So I'm going to start with some sort of base layer that's something synthetic, very close to the skin that can help kind of keep my core warm. And then I'm going to put some layers on top of that. So on a colder winter day, I'm probably going out in a base layer and maybe a fleece over that if it's really cold or especially if I'm maybe sitting around by the creek and enjoying my lunch, I'm going to throw on a down jacket on top of that. Maybe down or synthetic, something lightweight that I can carry easily. That can be expensive, though. Not everybody has one of those lying around. I did not for the longest time. And so just good layers that you can take that are synthetic that you can put on. The down helps a lot because it's lightweight and compactible but it's really expensive. So, depending on your level of activity and how often you're getting out, it might not be something that's worth purchasing for you. Just look for something synthetic that's come a long way in quality and sizes and durability. I think when you think about your bottoms, if it's going to be cold or you're not going to be moving around a lot, that base layer once again and the layer over the top of that, I think it's surprising how warm you can get recreating. When I first started ice climbing in in Iowa, it was often between zero and ten degrees for a high with the wind chills -35. We actually couldn't climb if it got below zero because the ice was it was too cold and it would dinner plate and not work the way that it should. When we're climbing. And I would climb in a base layer and a fleece, and that's when I would climb, I would have gloves on and I had like a base layer and a pair of like the swishy kind of running pants or yeah, I didn't climb in snow pants. Swishy running pants were, were the best option due to mobility. And I would get hot so hot when I was climbing. Now as soon as I came down and I was maybe belaying somebody else, I was throwing out all those layers again. So layers are important. And you talked about hats earlier. I hated wearing a hat. Growing up in the Midwest, never wore a hat unless I was like going sledding for hours. I wasn't going to wear a hat, messed up my hair too much. I went to college and determined that a hat was a necessity to be outside walking around with these excessive wind chills. And I think the biggest thing that I really picked up on was going out on some farms in Iowa late at night, ten, 11:00 at night in January and December. And we would ride the ATVs around to go check trail cams or different things. My friend would always wear two hats and it was amazing what two hats can do when the temperature is around zero degrees and the wind chill significant and you are riding on an ATV. So hats really do make a difference. If you can keep your head warm, the rest of your body will stay warm. Joy Yeah, I discovered the same thing in North Dakota first that you could sweat in the snow, which was absolutely absurd to me as a Southerner. Like what? This is cross-country skiing for me. And then the hat thing really helped me. So do you guys have different types of hats like you do gear for different weather? Bob Oh yeah. Except where I'm from. I think y'all are referring to what we call a toboggan. So, like a wool hat or a cotton hat that covers the ears? Yeah, I wear, like, a toboggan or something like that. If I'm, like, sitting around outside all day, but my head, like, I sweat through my head very easily if I'm hiking. So typically, like during the day, I might just wear a regular ball cap. To be honest, I also have a lot of hair and my hair is super thick. I constantly when I do get my cut, I have to get it like thinned out it's so thick. So for me, a regular ball cap usually does, and then kind of a toboggan or a warmer winter hat like in camp. Val Certainly I went from owning no hats to one hat to too many hats, and I have some really thin hats that I wear when I'm biking and it's cold. I put them under my helmet so it's enough to keep me warmer, especially with that breeze from biking, but it fits under the helmet. Well, and then I have like a fleece hat is really good. Once again that synthetic but fleece, depending on how it's made, it can let alot of wind it, so I also have like a thick wool hat and some of them are fleece lined. So there's definitely different options. I think for the Boone North Carolina region, a decent like fleece hat is probably a good option for being versatile. Joy You mentioned something else. When does another factor in some cases, particularly with cycling or if it's a windy or rainy day? So the other thing I just wanted to ask you guys, do you have a preference for rain gear? Do you wear pants when you're backpacking like the rain pants or we've talked about being hot. So what kind of rain gear do you have to keep yourself dry or do you like? Sometimes I find I don't even wear it. I just put dry clothes on later on. Val I think it certainly can depend on the temperature. If you're backpacking somewhere really hot and it's raining, you're going to get pretty warm and you're in gear. I do carry rain pants with me most of the time. Personal preference that that I just have found. I enjoyed particularly the convenience of being in camp and being able to be in my dry clothes but like sit anywhere and it didn't matter because I was wearing rain pants. So I have found that to be for me worth the wait when I'm backpacking. I'm not a lightweight backpacker. I definitely like bring all the things that I think are going to be helpful for me as long as I know I can carry the weight and maybe a quick story about the importance of rain gear during bad weather. I was backpacking in New Zealand. We're going up to a mountain. I don't honestly remember what mountain it was. The Rangers had recommended against it that day because of the weather, but we were only there for two days. This was our chance. So there are five of us and we started heading up. It was pouring rain and people were getting really, really hot. So they took off all their rain gear. Now I kept my rain gear on. Having a little different education and background on what we were doing couldn't convince them to do. So we have to turn around and come back down because one of the girls got hypothermia. She had gotten so warm, she took off all our rain gear. But then with the rain, she had gotten so cold, we cut, warm it back up. We had to come back down to go back to the lodge and warmer up. Joy Bob, do you have a story about cold weather or rainy weather or weather story that you could share with the listeners? Bob Yeah, 2013, 2014. I was leading a trip to Utah and we were actually Southwest Utah in the desert. We were going to be doing the Green and Colorado River backcountry canoeing trip in May. Typically in May it's 90 plus degrees in southwest Utah. For some reason, during this entire trip, there was only one day that didn't rain. It was not when we were canoeing, that's for sure. It was actually about 50 degrees. And so based off the temperatures and planning that we did as a group, a lot of people didn't pack winter or colder weather clothing. And the night before, during our pack out before we put on the river, we actually had a massive rain and lightning storm come in and actually flooded camp and most of the people’s stuff as a result of that, people were pretty ill prepared. We actually had to kind of postpone the trip a little bit and make a leadership decision as a crew. And we put on the river a day later in order to help get people's clothes dried because like Val said, going into an experience where maybe you are getting more wet and being exposed to hypothermia in the situation that she just talked about, we were very well aware that had we put on that day, we would have likely have had multiple people that would have been hypothermic because in canoeing, you're sitting a lot. You can be paddling a lot, but you're you're sitting a lot. And so it's even less active than climbing up a mountain in New Zealand. So for us it was kind of a decision on that. We actually took everyone to a laundry mat and got all their clothes dried before we continued on with that trip. Joy I think both these stories illustrate the importance of clothing, but at the same time recognizing that sometimes we have to make decisions based on the need of the group and what's in their best interests. I appreciate hearing the different angles of that. I remember I've been in one where there was a group of us that had dry clothing. I was the group that didn't. And so we literally got all our dry clothes, put it in the tent, and then let the other participants who are wet get our clothing on. So, I mean, I've shared my clothes with people as weird to see someone wearing your clothes around the campsite. It's like, Wait a minute, that's what oh, it's mine. I love that camaraderie and community building that we that we have. I am going to ask a more personal question. Underwear, is that synthetic for you guys as well or how do you guys work that? Bob I have multiple different types of underwear. I have synthetic underwear, which I love those specially like in the summer and in the winter, to be honest, I've also had friends who live and die by the no underwear rule. Better dudes. I think it's personal preference with that. I personally have synthetic underwear, but also in the summer. Cotton underwear is not not horrible either. Val So I went with everything synthetic initially, but there's a lot of talk about for the female anatomy, how cotton is actually better. And so I still wear my synthetic, but it's something I certainly wonder about at times and think about. I definitely wouldn’t hike in a swimsuit. I know some people do that and it's just thicker and it's a synthetic. But the way that holds moisture in different things can cause a lot more complications. So I do go synthetic, but I can see the argument for cotton or maybe like synthetic with a cotton liner could be helpful as well. Joy You know, a lot of times I think people just starting out or kind of like, what do I do? How do I do this? I appreciate your candor and what it comes down to and the discussion that my colleagues and I had and the three of us are having. It really is personal preference depending on the activity that you're doing and then figuring out what your temperature is and what you run and what's in your best interest healthwise. And I think it is important to kind of monitor that as you first starting it out, because you might realize you're not enjoying yourself and then you don't want to do that activity. Whereas if you're dressed appropriately and having a good time, the activity becomes the focus rather than your discomfort. Becki Listening to these outdoor professionals Winter and Reindeer preferences makes you really think about what items are most important to have with you when you're active outside from having something you cannot go without to being prepared with layers. Each person provided you with some great insight into how to be best prepared for your activity. I think it's important to think about personal preferences as being comfortable with what you have can also impact what you are doing. Maintaining your core temperature is really a key to staying warm while being active outside. The literature tells us that layering is important to provide insulation and help prevent sweating, overheating, under dressing and staying dry. The colder environment can increase your energy expenditure and cause fluid loss. Synthetic materials like rayon, polyester, nylon and fleece, which are often soft, flexible and lightweight, are great for wicking moisture away and keeping you dry in colder climates. Wool and down are natural options that work well too. In addition, having a hat is important as a lot of heat can be lost through your head. Dressing for weather and outdoor recreation is key to enjoyment. As Bob said, we're not out here to rough it. We're here to thrive. Joy So we have this other segment. It's called “The Dirt on Getting Outside.” We ask 3 to 5 questions and I'm going to do this instead of ping pong like I was before. I'm just going to do it one at a time. So Valerie, I will start with you. The first question is in the outdoors, what is one of your biggest fears? Val I think one of my biggest fears in the outdoors is the fear I've had since I was a child. I'm more afraid of people in the outdoors than I am of the outdoors. When I would go to summer camp and we'd like sleep outside, I wasn't really scared of the animals or anything or the dark. I was scared that there were like bad people in the woods and around for whatever reason. That's just like this fear of always had. And it's still the thing to this day that that makes me more nervous. I can be out somewhere that's very difficult to get to and that's still my fear. So I always have had that one. Joy What is your most embarrassing outdoor moment? Val So I think my most embarrassing outdoor moments because there's probably there's been multiple of them and in this particular sense would be, I drink, a lot of water. It's good to be hydrated, though you can also over hydrate, but I then consequently have to go to the bathroom a lot. And that's not always a super feasible option to get off the trail and practice really good LNT (leave no trace.) Or if you're mountaineering, and you're like on a big climb. You don't have a lot of options. So there's definitely been times where I've not gotten out of sight well or off the trail well, and I've had people all of a sudden come along and there I am going to the bathroom, or I know I've had to go to the bathroom in the river because that was the only option. And everybody knows what I'm doing and I’m like, “It's kind of hard to go now.” That's an embarrassing moment in the outdoors. Joy A couple of years ago, I went on a trip with outdoor programs and I was so impressed with your student instructors, the leaders, because they did the poop talk and they made it very transparent and actually fun rather than embarrassing or shameful. And like you said, you made me think of that when you're like, I'm in the I'm in the water in the river and everybody knows what I'm doing. And it's kind of like we kind of just go with it. It does open up another way of thinking about going to the bathroom. So thank you for being willing to share that. What is, Valerie, Your must have piece of outdoor gear or equipment that you never leave without. What couldn’t you live without in the outdoors? Val A water bottle. And in particular, I like a hydration bladder. That's got the hose and I can just drink water to my heart's content while hiking. It's amazing how quickly I can put three liters down if I've got a hose that can deliver it very easily to me. Joy All right. And then here in the Boone area, what's your favorite local outdoor spot? Val Favorite local outdoor spot here? This is a tough one. I like water. So any time that I can can get around water. So maybe not one spot in particular. But just like the creeks, Wilsons Creek's got some good swimming holes. Gragg Prong is fairly easy to get to and have a good swim. A cold swim, but a good swim. Wildcat Lake in Banner Elk has a little like swim beach and they have lifeguards there at times. And I think that's a fun like outdoor swim beach location that's closer than Watauga Lake or something of that nature. Joy Cool. Thank Valerie. So, Bob, you get the the dirt on getting outside questions next. First question is what is your biggest fear in outdoor settings? Bob I think my biggest fear is actually very similar to Val's. So Val has been to New Zealand. I have also been to New Zealand. When we were doing our backpacking portion of our trip, kind of on the Greenstone trek and route also is like hunting territory and we actually were around a lot of hunters that were under the influence of items and wouldn't leave our group alone. Bob Actually, for multiple days it almost seemed as if they were following us on the trail at a point. We made phone calls to local wildlife officials to kind of check out these folks’ credentials. So, yeah, I'm with Val. So animals and natural wilderness things that don't necessarily scare me in the way that, you know, some people do and the way that they present themselves at times. Joy I completely understand. I’d share more but this is on you guys. So what is your most embarrassing or an embarrassing moment you've had in the outdoors? Bob Yeah, this is tough because I feel like I'm a person who is not easily embarrassed, so maybe this is more funny than anything, or a fun just tidbit or story about myself. I don't know how it ever started, but like, you know, JORTS were like always an embarrassing thing, especially like in the last ten years. You think of like your dad wearing jorts out in the front yard with some white New Balances on and it just became a running joke as like student staff back in college that we would jokingly just wear jorts on trip and one day for our multiple day trips I just started packing a pair of jorts and so since like 2012, I have one pair of jorts that has been on every multi-day trip I've ever been on. It is the same pair. My last trip as an undergrad student, I actually wore this jorts the entire trip. So backpacking, whitewater rafting, it just became like this, like living joke that has just become this like traveling story of the jorts. Joy That's awesome. All right. So what is your must have piece of outdoor gear that you can't live without? Bob So considering, you know, we're talking a lot about outdoor gear and specific to winter, for me, I'm a very warm person, but my feet and extremities get very cold. And for me it is socks...alot of pairs of wool socks. Pro-tip, always keep a pair of like really thick wool socks in your sleeping bag if you're sleeping over night and just only devote them to like sleep. Just putting on that one fresh pair of clean socks at night when you roll into your sleeping bag is like that feel good cozy comfort that just helps put you right to bed. Joy Awesome. What is your favorite local spot? Bob Val kind of like stole all of mine because I love swimming holes as well. So I would reiterate what Val said with Gragg Prong and then Harper's Creek Falls if I got to go even more local because those can be a bit of a drive up here for some reason, I just really like the Ridge Mountain Carriage Trail because it has some variety, because you can start there at the pond and be on crushed gravel, but eventually make your way up into the pasture. Bob And for me, I grew up in a farm in southern Ohio raising cattle and so to sometimes just walk up to some cattle out in the middle of the field, it's kind of nice and takes you back a little bit. Joy Cool! I was just out there today hiking. It gives you a quick hike, but without the roots and the rocks and like you said you come across cows and other things. So a couple of things before I wrap this up, I just wanted to mention the listeners. Valerie talked about LNT or Leave No Trace, and I know other programs has some programs on that and we may even do a podcast eventually on Leave No Trace. It is really how to what would you say, how to not behave but ethics for the outdoors. How would you guys say leave no trace? What's a one minute version of Leave No Trace that you would share with the listeners? Val Leave No Trace are the the outdoor ethics that you want to participate in when you're recreating outside, whether it's just a park right in your town or community or in the backcountry that will help keep the place more pristine and ready for other visitors to come and have the same enjoyable experience that you were able to have. Joy Thank you. My cat is telling me it's time to be done with this. She wants to be fed. So the other part I wanted to give you guys an opportunity to showcase anything you want to say about outdoor programs in terms of getting other students involved or staff or faculty, anything you'd like to be able to share with our listeners? Bob So we have our IDP program and what we call our instructor development program. That instructor development program is kind of a yearlong process that kicks off usually in the fall that you apply for to kind of learn to become an instructor and a trip leader with us here at Outdoor Programs, we get through everything, such as the theory behind facilitation and group management and dynamics through risk management and how to plan the logistics of a trip and plan meals and plan routes, as well as all the technical skills that go into activities such as rock climbing, backpacking, whitewater kayaking, whitewater rafting. And those are things that you don't have to have any skill prior coming in to. The instructor development program is beginner like zero to little to the advanced skill possible to get in and be a part of that. We do now have a custom trips program. So you may not want to sign up with a bunch of random folks and go on an open enrollment trip somewhere. Let's say you live together with some folks or you're part of this community that gathers regularly and you've kind of developed that small pod or bubble, you can actually work with us to create your own custom trip in which our guides will help lead you in that expedition. Val And gear rentals, too. We're offering what we always have, and we're still offering outdoor equipment rentals. So you want to go have your own outdoor adventure, but you don't own a tent or a sleeping bag or those different items. Or maybe you have gone camping before, but you didn't bring that with you in college because you have limited space. We offer that for an incredibly reasonable rate through Outdoor Programs, so you can check out the gear that you would need for you and your buddies to go have your own experience. Joy Thank you. Y'all are an incredible resource at our university. I think a lot of students come here because of the outdoors. So to be able to know that I as a novice can come in and learn as well as rent, and I can also be an expert and learn and rent and work with you guys is really a phenomenal experience. I don't know if you guys noticed in Getting the Dirt on the Outside is really like asking some kind of questions that we don't think about as as people who frequent the outdoors. We enjoy it when they happen. But a lot of people, I think, may not get into the outdoors because they're embarrassed or they don't know what gear they need. So I really, again, appreciate the time you guys took to be able to share a little bit about your own personal experiences, your insights and your professional expertise. So thank you. Becki App State’s Outdoor Programs is the place to start or continue your outdoor journey. See our notes for this episode for links to help you with dressing for cold and how to get connected outdoor programs. Thank you for listening to our show today. Remember, life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.

11. 

    8 Dec 2022

    Ep.04: Dressing for the Cold (Part 1)

    The entire Appalachian Outdoorosity crew comes together to discuss their favorite ways to recreate when the weather outside is frightful. We mean cold. You knew that.  Joy, Becki and Melissa talk layering, cotton vs polypro and time tested tricks for not becoming hypothermic whilst backpacking, biking and camping. Along the way we discover some of their biggest fears and most embarrassing cold weather related moments. A jolly time is had by all. Transcript: Becki Batista Welcome to the Outdoorosity podcast, where we encourage you to get outside and keep going outside. Here we will share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on health, the environment and human development. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu.  Hi, my name is Becki Battista and I am a professor in exercise science at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed physical activity addict. I will be your host for this Outdoorosity podcast. On today's episode, Outdoorosity team members will share their advice about what they like to wear when it gets cold out, types of clothing and the importance of layering. Let's go to the conversation now. Joy James I'm Joy James. I teach in recreation management, working in the Hope Lab. I'm a Southerner, born and raised. So, I've lived in the southern climate. I've lived in North Dakota, Utah, I’ve had the heat extreme and the cold extreme and they all provide different challenges to us, but they don't keep you from going outdoors. Becki Battista I'm Becki Batista, and I am a team member in the Hope Lab. With the fact that I have lived in cold weather climates like Michigan and Wisconsin, I definitely have had to adjust my layering of clothing items. But we can certainly address any issues associated or ideas, tips, tricks and some good common sense about what to wear when you are being active outside. Melissa Weddell And I'm Melissa Weddell. I think the one theme that we will collect today is that there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing choices. Becki, why don't you tell us your favorite outdoor activity and how you kind of plan and typically dress for outdoor recreation? Becki Battista Running is probably my favorite outdoor activity and over the years I have figured out what works in what temperature. Probably the most important thing that I always make sure I have is gloves. If my fingers are cold, then I'm cold. Sometimes I have to have two layers of gloves, just depending on what the temperature really is outside. I might have gloves and then added mittens. And I always thought mittens were kind of a weird concept, like, why would I wear mittens in the wintertime? That's what little kids wear. But mittens actually keep your fingers closer together. And so technically, mittens are much better in the really cold climates, like 30 degrees and lower. I'd say like a good weather wind resistant type mitten is really helpful for me when it's really cold and in this climate really cold as 20 degrees and lower than that is when I tend to put mittens on. I always dress in layers. I kind of I look at what is the temperature going to be like when I start my run? Now, keep in mind, I don't like to be cold at all. And so I probably over dress and over prepare, which that's just kind of how I am. So, if it's chilly out, I might just wear one layer, a top and then a jacket and hat and gloves if it's below 30, I tend to wear maybe two layers a jacket, hat and gloves. If any time I get hot, the first thing that I take off is my hat to just cool off a little bit. I think layering is a really important thing. So, for me it's my hands are the most critical part. I don't really have any problems with my feet, probably because I am running. And so the constant movement, they just usually stay warm. But I always think about the temperature and the temperature change and how to keep myself as warm as I can. Melissa Weddell Awesome. Great suggestions, Becki. Tell us one of your funniest outdoor experiences in cold weather, one of those times you'll never forget. Becki Battista So, I was actually laughing at myself the other day because when I lived in Michigan, I used to go for a run outside, but only if it was ten degrees or higher. Then I'd go outside and still go for a run. When I moved to Wisconsin, I had to change that temperature and so it had to be zero. And that didn't include the wind chill factor. So, if it was still above zero, I'd still go out for a run, except at the place where I worked. It was called La Crosse, Wisconsin, and it was a big exercise school and everybody in Wisconsin goes outside anyway. It doesn't matter the weather. I think they all looked at me funny because not only did I have my running tights, probably two layers like a t-shirt and then another shirt, another jacket. But on top of that, I also was able to get sweat pants on a sweatshirt from the exercise science department. You could get t shirts, shorts, sweatshirts and sweat pants from the department. I added those on and then had my hat. I had two pairs of gloves on and I went for a run. I would run by some of the cross-country runners and they're in like shorts and a long sleeve shirt and I have 3 to 4 layers of clothing on and I looked like an idiot, but I was warm and I just did not care as long as I was comfortable. It didn't matter to me. Melissa Weddell That's great, Becki. It's great that you could actually run with all this clothes on. Becki Battista It was a challenge. Add in snow and ice and then it gets even more challenging. Melissa Weddell That's definitely true. Joy, why don't you share with us your favorite outdoor activity and how you prepare? Joy James I love most outdoor activities camping, hiking and biking. Most recently, I probably do more hiking than anything else. Been doing that since I was a kid. I’m going to go on the theme of what Becki kind of said with I didn't really care if I was warm. When I go outdoors and I don't really care what I look like and that has changed up my ability to stay warm or stay cool. If I was looking at dressing for the weather, I would echo what Becki has to say with the cap and mittens. I do have really warm socks that I put on because there's nothing like having your feet be cold and your fingers be cold. Another thing that I found useful, particularly when I was in college, polypro started coming out. So, the technology has really advanced and now you can even wear athletic wear that is wicking. It doesn't have to be fancy like Patagonia or North Face. It can be Walmart or I'm even finding athletic T-shirts that I go look at in the Walmart and TJ Max in the men's section and find their athletic shirts. And I put those on because I'm a larger woman and sometimes it's more difficult to find outdoor gear that fits me or that wicks in the same way. Surprisingly, I still wear cotton t shirts when it's hot. But if I know it's going to be a hot, cold or a lot of variation, then I go to wearing technical gear so that I can wick moisture away because there's nothing like being sweaty and then getting cold. The other key for me as I like vests, you can warm up your chest really well. They're lightweight. You can put them in your backpack really easily and paired with a long-sleeved shirt, it can go a long way. And the other thing that I really have enjoyed are buffs. You can wear a buff around your neck, you can wear it as a hairband. I wear it a lot as covering my ears. So it's not for like zero degree weather like Becki was talking about, but it was for kind of like this, 30 degrees, 40 degrees. My ears get cold when that's windy I can pull the buff down or I can pull the buff up. So, I think that's been a key piece of wear that is important and good boots. Good solid shoes. And those shoes will keep you warm and dry. So, if you kind of like can't afford boots, then what I would tell you is that we got Re-Gearin town and you can waterproof your boots and just get work boots and go out there. It’ll help your ankles. That'll keep you warm. And when you have to go through creeks, it makes a difference in terms of your ability to stay dry. Melissa Weddell Absolutely. And I think also you bring up a good point when you pick hikes or different things, if I know it's going to be really cold and they'll be a lot of water crossings, I might pick a different trail that day knowing I can come back to that, but those are really good suggestions. Tell us a story from being cold in the outdoors that's memorable for you. Joy James Well, you know, it's interesting. I had to think about it was like, what are some memorable stories? And Melissa, you may need to add to the story because I repress things that are bad. You know, I always remember the positive. I don't know what's happening. I'm a Pollyanna or something. Melissa and I, I was working for Clemson. We're both in school at that time and I was teaching a backpacking class. We were down near Brevard area and it was a really kind of an easy trail. But the students at the time didn't know how easy it was because it was still challenging. Wearing a bunch of weight on you and they may not have dressed appropriately. It was before we had like weather at our palms, so I don't recall even checking the weather. We didn't know what the weather's going to be like. It was a fall, maybe October or late October or early November, and we're out. We did about a five-mile hike and we had all the students camped out and Melissa and I camped at a bluff above the students because we wanted to give students the chance to kind of be together. But we didn't know what to think about it. And I don't know most of us at the middle of the night or we just wake up and realize it had snowed on us? Melissa Weddell I think we woke up in the morning and the Saturday hike was nice. Like, it was it was a beautiful fall day. I remember being really comfortable and I do remember waking up and unzipping the tent and we both were like, Huh? Huh? It was not what we were expecting. Joy James Our friend Melissa, she needs a coffee. So, this was before coffee, the snow on the tent. And I don't remember it being particularly cold enough to be snowy. However, it was really a cool experience because our students and the participants with us got to see what it was like to backpack and then be in all kinds of conditions of weather. And there was no snow on the ground by the time we walked out. Melissa Weddell It was just a rare dusting and that was before smartphone phones. And yeah, it was a fun surprise. Joy James Well, the other thing to I would add, I think, we had good sleeping bags because we were staying pretty warm and there was two in a tent. The other piece of this that Becki alluded to really is all about layering. When I hike, I always have an extra piece of clothing on me so I can put it on or take it off. I also like long sleeves because you can wrap those around your waist and if you didn't get outside, you wouldn't have these experiences. I think that's what was so cool about this to wake up. And I remember I had just moved back from North Dakota probably about two years out of North Dakota, and I was kind of used to this now. And all of a sudden I'm like, “There's snow in the south?” Melissa Weddell It's a memory I won't forget. Thanks for sharing for me. I grew up in northern Indiana and so I can remember, you know, weeks on end, it would be so cold. And I grew up on a farm and we'd go out to to feed animals and we'd have to wear full face masks because the cold would just burn your nose and your mouth. And so being cold isn't necessarily rare to me. I do have a little more of a systematic approach. My favorite outdoor activity is riding bikes, and especially if you're on the road versus the mountain, you add that wind. There's a whole other layer of planning that has to go and unfortunately, I'll share a story where I kind of had to learn the hard way. But I look at the temperature, what the fluctuation might be when you look at the app and it says it's going to be 55 today, that might not be till about two or 3:00 and that might only last for 10 minutes. I kind of look at the lowest temperature throughout the day and plan on that. I also look at the precipitation. If it's going to be really windy, if it's going to be rainy, that's really important to me. Much like Joy, I carry this extra layer. It's not a rain jacket, but it's like a wind jacket. It is made by Patagonia. I carry it in every bag I have. So even if I just get a little chilly, I throw it on and it's enough to kind of keep that heat in. I also consider my effort level. If I am running like Becki does and I work up that heat, I don't need as much clothing. However, if I'm hiking or it's a little slower ride? I definitely need more clothes. Another thing I consider is the uphill. Downhill. I consider this on the bike, but I also consider it on a hike. If you are in the high country doing outdoor activities, it's guaranteed to have an uphill and a downhill and so for the bike portion and this is where I learned the hard way, this was maybe 15 years ago. I did a really long group ride on the road out of Greenville, South Carolina. We rode up to Caesar's head. It was, you know, like 100-mile day. And when we turned around at Caesar's head and came back down, I never got warm. In fact, I would argue I have been on the brink of hypothermia a lot. My fingers turned blue. I literally got back to the car and something that I've learned and it could be for a male or a female, but if your undergarments are wet, you need to get those off immediately. If I have a wet sports bra and I don't take that off, I will shiver and freeze. I can remember being in a public parking lot in the car with the heat turned on and the seat warmers stripping down to get all of my wet clothes off because it was starting to reach a dangerous point. And so, for example, I know Becki and I, we have hiked to the top of the profile trail at Grandfather when it was, you know, zero degrees. And I brought an extra coat. I will bring in extra undergarments. So, I will actually take off my sweaty top. Once I reach the top, put on a dry top, dry gloves, and then another layer to come back down. And I've learned that biking too. Actually I was on a backpacking trip a few weekends ago and I brought another pair of socks because I knew my socks would get sweaty and kind of swampy. It's not good for blisters, but I just sat down and threw on a dry pair of socks. I think those gloves are right. The layering. I don't dress as warm as Becki. In fact, I have another friend I mountain bike with whatever I wear, she will wear triple what I wear. I like to be a little more on the cooler side, but what I have learned is if my core gets cold, I'm in trouble. My feet actually get really cold on the bike. We do a few different things. You can bring plastic baggies and put your toes in plastic bags. That's an old school cheap way to keep your feet warm. I wouldn't hike that way, but it works for biking. And then you have toe covers that are neoprene. If it's under 50 degrees, you can guarantee I have toe covers on my mountain bike shoes. You know, the takeaways that I'm hearing from everyone is definitely the layering, checking the weather, making sure that you have a lot of different layers and options. You can always take things off. Like Joy said, wrap around your waist, put them in your pack. I think that's something else I've changed to just hiking, even if I'm just going around Moses Cone. I have a small little pack I carry and I carry a small first aid kit in it. I usually hike with my dogs. So I carry some Benadryl and some other stuff, but I always have an extra layer too. And some of my friends make fun of me, but it makes me feel more prepared. (commercial break) This podcast is brought to you by the hope Lab, where our focus continues to be encouraging people to get active and outside and finding spaces to be outside. The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the perfect foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu, or ourdoorosity.podcasts.appstate.edu. Joy James Because like I think the biggest thing for me when I was 20 was I didn't have the money to buy the gear. What so extraordinaire it's hard to imagine, I think when you're 20 is when I did buy a piece of gear that was it cost me money. I still have it like some of these shirts. We were talking about, even the Walmart shirt. I had that for years and it was $10 compared to $50 back in the eighties. That's the thing to think about as you're looking at getting stuff for yourself is it will last a long time and you can find it at thrift stores. I know Melissa does a lot of thrifting and you can find some good quality gear. You just got to look for it. You can go to Re-Gear, you can go to Walmart, but it will last. And it's kind of like, well, I want to spend the money on the Patagonia. I've worn the same poly pro shirt while I was sea kayaking for days, and it started to smell like a wet dog when it got wet. But it lasted at work, so it's not something you have to have multiple shirts for if you can kind of stand your own stank. Melissa Weddell That's a great point. I kind of do this at Christmas with my parents. They always want to buy me stuff and I'm like, I don't think I need anything, but if I usually have them, I need one really nice piece of gear that I feel guilty about and you're right, that Patagonia jacket I have, I've had it for 15 years, and it's the same one that's always in my pack. Joy James It is worth it. Becki Battista Well, and I think to me, it's a comfort. I trust that piece of. Clothing in certain temperatures. And so I'll hang on to it because I'm like, I know that I will be warm if I wear that. So I don't get rid of it because it's a comfort. If it's 30 degrees, I'm going to wear this and I'll be fine. Melissa Weddell Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you go outside enough, you start knowing your temperature range. I know that if I ride below 40 degrees, I have a whole different set of gear that I wear. I know that. And I make a note in my head and I think journaling or writing stuff down of what works and what doesn't work also can really help too. Joy James I carry extra gear in my car. Melissa, you started to talk about this. You have gear for when you come back to, but I have gear that I can share. I just have this kit of stuff that I can either put on like Melissa to keep myself dry or I can share it with someone else who might be having a problem. Or in North Dakota, the reason you did it is because you might get stuck on the highway and you had to have your sleeping bag and all your stuff to be able to stay warm. So even though I'm still in the South, I still kind of live by that motto in the winter. Melissa Weddell I love that, Joy. And I also think that goes back to not having cell phones like I remember even in northern Indiana; we had our winter kit that went in the back of the car that had small shovel and extra clothes and gloves. But I'm much like Joy, I think, for all of us. If you were to hop in our car, although I think Becki has a little cleaner car, my mantra is that whatever you ask me to do, that I'm physically fit enough to do it, and that I have all the gear which I have a lot of gear in my car all the time because I'm like, “Sure, let's go hike or let's go do that.” So yeah, you never know. And I think when you meet friends at the trailhead, we all forget our socks or gloves or hat. So, it is nice to be like, Oh no, no, I have some extra. Yeah, it is a comfort. Joy James One other thing that that's not an article of clothing that I do think is important for people who are just getting started in the outdoors to know is you should always have some sort of good solid food, granola bar trail mix, not only on your person but in your car. Because when you start to get hypothermic, one of the first things you should do is feed yourself, drink water, and feed yourself. Because that kind of helps warm up the inside. It seems counterintuitive, but as a sea kayak guide, this is what we just do. As soon as someone would fall in the water, we would like, “Here, eat this!” It kind of helped them get their energy and like I said, you're cold and freezing and why should I be eating? But that's one of the ways to combat the beginnings of hypothermia. Melissa Weddell That's awesome, Joy. Thanks for sharing. And also, we are going to ride on the Virginia Creeper this week. One of the things that Becki requested, which I love, is that we have hot drinks after. And so I know a lot of us carry our metal canteens and in the summer they keep the drinks really cold, but in the winter they keep them really warm. So, we're going to boil a bunch of hot chocolate and some tea and bring that for after our activity to kind of warm us up. I think some of that preplanning with the food and the hot drinks can really make a difference when you get back to the car and you’re freezing. Well, this is awesome. Thank you, Joy and Becki, for sharing your planning for cold weather. We like to finish every outdoor city podcast with “Getting the Dirt.” And so we have a few questions that will Rapid-fire. Becki, I'll have you go first. You can tell us what your biggest fear is, your must have. Let's go ahead and say outdoor winter gear and your favorite local spot. Becki Battista So, I think my biggest fear is falling off a cliff when I'm running on the trail and then my favorite winter outdoor gear. I do love my mittens. They keep my hands warm, which means I can stay out running longer. Melissa Weddell The favorite local spot? Becki Battista My favorite local spot. It's Moses Cone Trails, The carriage trails. It's like my sanctuary. Melissa Weddell That's awesome, Becki. Thanks for sharing. Joy, what is your biggest fear, favorite winter outdoor gear and your favorite local spot? Joy James You know, it's funny. Nothing is coming up in my head as my biggest fear. It’s not that I'm not afraid. I think I'm afraid for whatever the situation is. So, it could be something as simple as thinking I'm lost and I can't figure out my way. Or it could be the weather that is coming looks pretty ominous and I'm going to have to deal with it. So, I kind of I think my biggest fear is I don't get outside enough. Can I say that is the biggest fear? Melissa Weddell Yes, I think that works. We understand that. Joy James So I think my must have peace of gear clothing is the buff is what I would say. And then a Nalgene bottle favorite local spot. I'm going to take Becki's Moses Cone and say Trout Lake and the Carrot Trails, and she's part of that Moses Cone as system and Price Lake have been my go-to places to kind of get outside and connect. Melissa Weddell That's awesome, Joy. Thanks for sharing. Well, it won't be a surprise to anyone that I have one big fear in the outdoors, and that's a mountain lion. Luckily, we don't have to deal with that here. But, imagining a cat jumping on my tent and wrestling is not something I am interested in at all. And you know, the experts say to fight back. I just can't imagine that going well. But nonetheless, I don't have to worry about that stuff here. So, I'm able to go out and not really think about too much. I would say my favorite outdoor winter gear is a vest. You will be hard pressed to never find me without a vest. Whether that's a wind vest or a puffer vest almost always have one. Again, that goes back to my idea that if I can keep my core really warm in my arms, can air out. I'm really comfortable personally. And my favorite local spot is Wilson Creek. I love going out in our area, our district of the Pisgah National Forest, and exploring and having long days and lots of waterfalls every season. I just want to thank you all for your time. It's been great learning more about your outdoor experiences in the cold, and we always like to end with some quotes and inspiration. We can't emphasize enough that there's no bad weather, just bad clothing choices. And to really think about dressing for what the weather is and bring what the weather is not, you know, if you stand in one place in Boone, something will grow up your leg or the weather will change. So, dress for all of that and prepare for what it's not end to end a quote. You are only cold if you are standing still wherever you go, no matter what the weather, always bring your own sunshine. Anthony D'Angelo, thanks for joining us and get out there and enjoy the outdoor recreation even in the cold.

12. 

    6 Oct 2022

    Ep.03: Briggs Shealy - Faith Based Outdoor Experiences

    Dr. Joy James is joined by Recreation Management major, Briggs Shealy who shares how his participation in faith-based organizations opened the door to a variety of program opportunities, from day and week camps to extended outdoor expeditions. Melissa Weddell: Welcome to the Outdoorosity Podcast. Get outside. Keep going outside. Where we share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire, and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story, with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside, to improve your overall wellness. This podcast is presented by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on health, environment, and human development. The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the perfect foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play, through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Melissa Weddell, I'm a professor in recreation management at Appalachian State University, and a self-proclaimed outdoor addict. I'll be your host for the Outdoorosity Podcast. On today's episode team member, Dr. Joy James, also a professor in recreation management, interviews student Briggs Shealy. We will be discussing the title of the episode, Faith-Based Outdoor Experiences, where Briggs tells us his story of being introduced to the outdoors through faith-based organizations, and how that shaped his college journey. Dr. Joy James: We have Briggs Sheely here to share his story about getting into the outdoors. And Briggs, just want to say thank you for willing to take some time out to share your experiences with us. Briggs Shealy: Yeah, thank you for having me. Dr. Joy James: The first thing we'd like you to do is kind of introduce yourself, where you're from, why you came to App State, and tell us your favorite outdoor activity. Briggs Shealy: Okay. So my name is Briggs Shealy, I'm from Hickory, North Carolina, I lived there nine or 10 years, and I moved there from Greenville, South Carolina, where I spent the beginning half of my life. Right out of high school I went to a one year gap year program called One Life. That was a really, really awesome experience. I was able to earn college credit while traveling, and having these different experiences both outdoor interculturally. And those were all focused on just serving, and like really hands-on learning. And then through that experience was really how impactful different experiences can be, and how they can be used for personal growth, and in other ways as well. Really just through that was where I started looking for different opportunities to pursue that as a career, and I'd already kind of looked at App before I went to that gap year program. And looking at App with that new perspective, just kind of what I wanted to do, I found the Outdoor Experiential Education major program, and I looked at that, I referred it to a couple of people that I had met through One Life, who were in that type of career. And they all said, "Briggs, this is a phenomenal program. You're going to end up exactly where you want to be, you should absolutely do that if this is what you want to go into." So that's really what attracted me to App at first. Dr. Joy James: All right, and what is your favorite outdoor activity right now? Briggs Shealy: Right now, I would say backpacking and camping. And then over the summer I worked at a ropes course, so I've also been getting into a little bit of that. Dr. Joy James: Cool. I'm going to have you tell us a little bit more about yourself, in terms maybe how you got into some of these activities. And so the first question I have, is how did you first get interested in the outdoors? Briggs Shealy: I remember my first backpacking trip was back in maybe my freshman year of high school, and I kind of did it through an extracurricular class that my friend's dad, my roommate now actually, his dad led this extracurricular backpacking trip, and I absolutely loved it. I loved getting outside, just living with the things just on my back, and just using my hands to forge this type of adventure. And that's really what I loved about it, it was just the adventure, and hiking, and sleeping in different spots. Dr. Joy James: Where did you guys go? Briggs Shealy: We went to Shining Rock. Dr. Joy James: Oh, nice. Briggs Shealy: Yeah, so it was a good spot, super pretty. I don't remember a lot of that trip, besides when I was in my tent. We spent one or two nights out there, and one of the nights I remember distinctly in my tent I heard some rustling around outside. And since this is my first backpacking trip of course I overreacted, and instantly thought it was a bear. And so I was sleeping with my friend, I was like, "Hey Jack, is there a bear outside?" And so one of us pokes our heads outside, and was like, "No, it's just someone going to the bathroom." I still distinctly remember that to this day. And so that was really my first experience. And then I did a couple of other just short camping trips, hiking trips after that, and really what I love about the outdoors is just the sense of adventure, and just being able to do things with your hands. I've always been super physically active, and just enjoying being outside, so backpacking kind of a correlation of the adventure, being able to do stuff with your hands, and then just getting outside into nature, which I absolutely love. And so One Life really kind of reinforced that, we did a couple of backpacking and survival trips, through those I saw how those outdoors experiences can be used in a really meaningful and intentional way. Dr. Joy James: So the extracurricular backpacking, you said your now roommate's father led that. How did you find out about it? Was it your friend just said, "Hey, come go backpacking with us." Or was it a class through the school? Briggs Shealy: So it was a class through the school, yeah. Dr. Joy James: Cool. The second question is, you're referring to One Life, can you share how you found out about One Life? And then you've talked about why it was appealing to you now, it was service and adventure, did they advertise that they were going to be outdoor survival, and doing some of these things? How'd you find out about it, and how did it appeal to you? Briggs Shealy: In high school, my senior year, I was really back and forth between a lot of different options for college. I was looking at App State. I looked at Gardner-Webb University. I was looking at One Life and a couple of other colleges, and I really just couldn't decide what I wanted to do at all, and I didn't really feel led towards any one thing in particular, more than the other. I really liked the appeal of One Life, because it kind of gave me this space to be able to figure that out, without feeling I had to commit to something. Through high school, I did a bunch of dual enrollment for my junior and senior year, and so I was able to earn a ton of college credits through that. Knowing that I could go do One Life, I could experience this travel, and these different type of experiences, and not really get behind on school that much seems like a pretty good option. And really what appealed to me about One Life, was just the hands-on experiences that they focused on. So the way they worked One Life was we would have classes, and so we were able to earn college credit during the program. And so we would have these classes, and we'd do a week of in-person class, and then we would go outside of the classroom and do different service and experiential stuff, which all related back to what we learned in that class. And then we did another week where we would actually go and take a trip, and that trip would kind of still be focused on this experiential part, we could go out and kind of do field trip almost, but a little more intentional that also relates back to the class and just helps reinforce that learning. And then the fourth week we would have guest speakers, and do teach-backs, which is where we actually were able to teach the material that we were learning back to the class. And so all of that was really just focused on reinforcing learning, and for me personally, I knew that I was a very hands-on learner, and the best way I was going to learn how to do something was through experiencing it. And the classes we took were classes like Life Calling Class, Basic Christian Belief Class, A New Testament Survey Class. We also did outdoor leadership style class, and so classes like that, that had real practical implications just for me in my life. And I just thought this couples exactly what I learned best, and just some cool class content as well. And there was also some pretty cool trips. Dr. Joy James: Well, so tell us more. Were you camping, or were you staying in churches? Where were you going? How were you put up for these trips? Briggs Shealy: So I'll talk about those first, the whole program was based out of a college in South Carolina called Southern Wesleyan University. While we were doing our classes and a couple of experience weeks, we would just stay there, and we had a dorm, and that dorm was where our whole program of people stayed and lived. And then when we went on the trips, it kind of depended on the focus of the trips. So our first trip was out to Colorado, and it was kind of a two-part trip. The first part of the trip, we literally did go spend the nights in the woods, but we went out there, and then they were like, "We didn't bring tents for y'all, so you have to make your own shelters." And so we spent three nights out there in our own constructed shelters with just a sleeping bag, and a sleeping mat, and two pairs of clothes, and that's all we were allowed to bring with us. Dr. Joy James: Oh my gosh. Briggs Shealy: That was a pretty crazy experience. I was thriving. I don't know if everyone on the trip was thriving, but I enjoyed that a lot. Dr. Joy James: Was your shelter, was it sticks? Briggs Shealy: So we used a bunch of the logs, and kind of built a low shelter around a tree. And then they gave us the opportunity to win some different type of sheets, so we ended up being able to put those over our shelter. And since we built it low to the ground we kind of kept the heat in, and there were six guys in there, so we were able to kind of snuggle up together a little bit. So that was that trip, and then the second half of that trip we actually stayed in a hotel, and did different experience stuff around the city of Denver itself. So it really just depended on the trip. When we did our trip to Nashville, we stayed in a type of hostel. When we did our trip to Cumberland Island actually, and we did camping out there. And then we went and stayed at a person's house that was on an old citrus nursery, which was kind of a cool experience. Dr. Joy James: And was that Colorado more the survival one you were talking about, or was there another survival experience? Briggs Shealy: So that was more the survival one. We also did Cumberland Island, and a week long backpacking trip throughout the semester, but that Colorado one was really the big survival one. And really since it was at the beginning of the year, it focused on kind of pushing us into these attributes of group development, through storming, and conflict, and creating this space for our group to grow together and to bond. Dr. Joy James: Like you said, if you're snuggling together, you pretty much get to know each other really well. Briggs Shealy: Yes. And then over the entire year really, our group of people, we had 24 students, and we all lived and did everything together. So we got really close over the whole year. Dr. Joy James: Cool, sounds like it was a wonderful experience. I think that's why you and I were talking in class the other day, I realized this would be a great topic for our listeners to be able to hear about your experience. I'm going to go back to a little bit more about yourself before One Life. So we know your favorite activities right now are camping and backpacking, are there any other outdoor activities that you enjoy doing? Briggs Shealy: Yes, I also really enjoy mountain biking. I've ridden a bunch of trails up here, and just bunch of trails around Mount Pisgah, and DuPont Forest all up there, so I love mountain biking. And then also, like I said, I worked at a ropes course over the summer, and that kind of helped me conquer my fear of heights a little bit, so I've been getting a little bit more in the rock climbing this year. Dr. Joy James: What ropes course did you work at? Briggs Shealy: So it was called Treetop Adventures, It was in Hickory, North Carolina. Dr. Joy James: Yeah. And now you think, "okay, I can go do some rock climbing?" Briggs Shealy: Yes. Dr. Joy James: Cool. Mountain biking, did you get into that in high school, or is that something more of a later pursuit? Briggs Shealy: Yeah, so I did get into that in high school, I saw a couple of videos of people mountain biking, and I was like, "Man, that looks awesome." I knew my friend was a really avid mountain biker, and so I got him to go look at bikes with me, and I went and bought a bike, and then we started hitting trails, and been doing it ever since then. Dr. Joy James: That's so cool. Back in my day there was movies, we didn't have videos or YouTube, and so you had to kind of know somebody to even know anything about some outdoor activities. So it's so cool to hear you talk about, "I saw a video and thought that'd be really cool." And then you knew a friend who did it. And so there's so many ways to connect in the outdoors now with the internet kind of supporting us. How do you think you became comfortable in the outdoors to be able to sweat, get dirty, go to the bathroom? Who influenced you, or what were some of those experiences that kind of guided you to that comfort? Briggs Shealy: Yeah, that's an interesting question. I honestly never really thought about that. Let's see, I think just growing up my family was always just very, very active, and my dad was a college football player, and a college football coach for a while. And so we all loved playing sports, we all loved just being active. And so really just ever since then my whole family's just really enjoyed going outside, hiking, and doing all of that. And then when we used to live in Greenville, South Carolina we had a big old yard, and it stretched all the way back, and there was this creek behind us, and then there was just a ton of woods. And I had two brothers, and so me and my brothers would always go back, we'd play in the creek, we'd build forts back in the woods, we'd have a couple of neighborhood friends. And my parents were just comfortable with letting us go out and just get dirty. They gave us the freedom to be able to do that, which I think was huge. And then also my granddad lives in Sumter, South Carolina, and he probably has close to a hundred acres of property. It's all just big pine woods, and then he has a pond. And so whenever we went to his house, he would always get us to help him working outside, going fishing in the pond. He would have some tractors and stuff, he let us just ride on the tractors with him. And he would always just kind of bring us alongside whatever project he was doing, so really just through that. And growing up I was exposed to just being outside a lot, and being okay with working hard and getting dirty, and then also just playing sports, and enjoying physical activity. Dr. Joy James: Well, you have a very normal experience to getting into the outdoors, many people who become comfortable in it find those childhood experiences of building forts, playing in creeks as one way to get into the outdoors. And often some people kind of meet people in college, or later in high school, that kind of get them into it as well. Briggs Shealy: Well. I think that's a really cool thing about here at App State, is everyone really enjoys being outside, and doing stuff outdoors. So you don't have to go very far to find someone who's willing to go outside and do something. Dr. Joy James: Right, it's just a matter of being open to being with someone you don't know. Have you been mountain biking over at Rocky Knob and met somebody, and then all of a sudden realized, we can mountain bike together? Briggs Shealy: Yes, I have. Dr. Joy James: It's amazing how it pulls this together in a variety of ways, our passions. Melissa Weddell: Listening to Briggs share his experiences, you realize there are many avenues to being introduced to the outdoors and organizations that can support your future endeavors. Faith-based organizations offer a variety of program opportunities, from day and week camps to extended outdoor expeditions. The literature tells us that faith, and the outdoors, often share a harmonious relationship, where spiritual experiences take place in nature. Time in the outdoors can be restorative, and create a spiritual bond to the natural world, along with those you share it with. Furthermore, the outdoors can be faith affirming, and offer a connection to a higher power or order. The natural beauty of nature is inspiring and provides space for us to reflect, meditate, and offer gratitude for the life we are living. Dr. Joy James: So could you tell us a story about an outdoor experience that influenced you? It could be a funny story, it could be a lesson that you learned story. Briggs Shealy: I think the most impactful outdoor experience I've had, also the most funny now that I kind of think about it more, was my trip with One Life to Cumberland Island. And just through that trip, we really focused on vocation, and different aspects of vocation, and how that can be meaningful, and how it can be used for more than just making a lot of money. More of a purposeful attribute of vocation, it's okay to do something that you love to do, and no one can blame you for that, and it's not always just about making a lot of money. So really just through that trip. I don't remember really any specific one moment where that kind of caught on to me. I think it was kind of more just a slow saturation through the trip. And we had Sam [inaudible 00:17:09] with us, who I mentioned earlier. I just talked to him, and just asked him questions about what he did, really just through talking to him I kind of felt this desire inside me, wow, that is awesome. Just to see people grow through these outdoors experiences, and see them kind of face challenges and overcome them is really an awesome thing. And so the funny story that I remembered from there, actually there are a couple. One that comes to the forefront of my mind, on Cumberland Island, since it's on the ocean, it's on the coast, our campsite was pretty close to the ocean. And one afternoon we kind of had just some free time while we were spending time there when we got to camp, and I couldn't find four of the guys. And so we were going around looking for them, and we went off towards the coast, and we met them coming back from where the ocean was. And we were like, "Hey guys, what have y'all been up to?" And they were like, "Oh, we went swimming." And we were like, "Cool." And they were like, "Yeah, we just stripped down all the way and went skinny-dipping in the ocean." I was like, "Oh, all right." And then the story goes on, and they were in the ocean. Anyways, this couple comes walking up on the beach, who was just there for the day or something with their young kid, and they're all in the ocean, and they're like, "Oh no." And so they had to just sit out there until they passed by, just over waist deep in the freezing cold ocean water in the middle of November, so that was kind of a funny experience. And there's also wild horses on Cumberland Island, is kind of the funnier story. And my friend tried to get really close to one, and ended up almost being attacked, but he wasn't, thankfully Dr. Joy James: You've mentioned two really classic things, it's feeling freedom in the outdoors so that you can kind of do some things, but then you don't realize other people are using those outdoors, and might come across. That's the fun I think of skinny-dipping, I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing, however getting caught adds to that level. And then while the ponies aren't necessarily wild animals, but interacting with wild animals, or animals who've gone feral, can lead to some interesting experiences and dynamics. One of the things too, I do want to ask based on some of our conversations, and just what I know from you, it sounds like the outdoors has been transformative in terms of figuring out your career path that you wanted to do, and strengthening in your faith. How has the outdoors shaped your faith, or strengthened your faith, if you're willing to share that? Briggs Shealy: Okay. Yeah, I would love to. Our One Life trip to Colorado, I remember this distinct moment. So we didn't really backpack in, we kind of more of just walked in, they dropped us off with the van and we walked up to where we were camping, because we were just staying in one spot. And so we had to lug all of our gear up on top of this hill. I've never forgotten this, this really stuck with me ever since that moment. I was carrying our five gallon water cooler that we were going to be using for water, I was walking pretty close to our director of One Life. As we were walking up the hill, one of the other students asked me, he was like, "Hey Briggs, do you need some help carrying that or something?" And they were just like, "Do you want to switch off?" And I was like, "No, man, I got it." And I just kept chugging it up the hill myself. And so the director was standing right there, and he's kind of been one of my mentors. So after we got up the hill and set up camp, he pulled me aside, and he was like, "Hey Briggs, I saw that exchange happen. What were you thinking when that happened?" I was like, "I knew I had the physical and capability to lug it up the hill, and I wanted to finish the job." And he was like, "But what if in doing that, in letting the other student do his own thing, and be comfortable and not have the burden of carrying the water, you stole that experience from him so that he couldn't face the challenge of carrying the water up the hill, and you didn't really humble yourself to be able to receive help from other people." And so he kind of mentioned the thing to me, he was like, "Maybe you're thinking you're being selfless, but actually you're being selfish." Stealing that experience from him really stuck with me ever since then, and kind of been a filter throughout my life. What areas am I actually being, not just in outdoors experiences, where I'm thinking I'm being selfless and actually being selfish, and trusting myself to operate things better than asking people to come alongside me, or specifically in my faith asking God to come alongside of me. And so really that's been kind of a life motto for me ever since then, is being able to humble myself to not only invite other people to come alongside me and face challenges with me, but also invite God. And that's been something that's been challenging for me, and also been really good for me, because a lot of times I like trusting myself to do what I got to do, because I think I'm a pretty capable person. But parts of the message of Christianity just talk about, how we aren't capable, and how we have to depend on God for our needs, and the fulfillment of our desires, and how his plans are better than ours. And so really just kind of fostering that idea of trust. Dr. Joy James: What a powerful experience. Briggs Shealy: Yes, it was awesome, and that image is solidified in my brain. Dr. Joy James: I'm still struggling with this idea of, like you said, "I think I'm being selfless, but I may be being selfish in not letting others to help me." And particularly in the outdoor settings, it's more of a catalyst for being able to see that. So thank you for sharing that story. Briggs Shealy: Yeah. And one more thing on that thought, during our backpacking trip with One Life, one of the people in our hiking group had something going on with her hip, and she was just not able to carry her pack well. But she kept just toughing it out, and wanting to finish the thing, because she didn't want the burden to be put on us to help her carry her pack. But she ended up just not being physically able to finish out the hike, and so me and the rest of the people in our hiking group ended up just sharing the load of her pack between us so she wouldn't have to carry it. And so not only was that a thing for her, but it was also just a thing for us to be able to feel like we were helping her, and just have that sense of contributing to her wellbeing, and then also I know it was a powerful experience for her. And so really just thinking about how powerful backpacking trips like that. That's really why I love backpacking, for opportunities like that, where people have to come alongside each other, and realize that they can't do things on their own. Dr. Joy James: And it's a really introspective moment, you are the one who had to be helped, and you have always been very capable. It's a humbling experience to be helped by everybody, at the same time you're having to interact with yourself, and go, "I need to accept this." And so that's a learning process too. Briggs Shealy: Yeah, and that was one of those experiences that pinpointed for me what outdoor experiences could really be. Dr. Joy James: Yeah, cool. Well, I'll end the official interview with that. So the next part, we have a segment called The Dirt on Getting Outside. And we ask every person that we interview these questions, the first question is, what is your biggest fear in the outdoors? Briggs Shealy: Oh man, I would say still, even to this day, is heights. So even working the ropes course over the summer, we were always strapped in, harnessed up, fully clipped on at all times. And so I still don't really love heights, they still make me kind of uncomfortable. Dr. Joy James: I think that's a reasonable thing. I don't disagree with you. Although I love the comfort of being strapped in, it still doesn't take care of the fact that you're still 50 feet in the air. Briggs Shealy: That's true. Dr. Joy James: All right. What is your most embarrassing outdoor moment? Briggs Shealy: Oh no. Nothing really comes to the top of my head right now. Oh I know, so on one of the backpack trips with One Life we were walking through the forest, and when you go through a spider web you're always just flipping around, and throwing your hands everywhere, trying to get it off you. And there's that fear that, "I don't know if the spider's on me." And so I walked through a spider web, and I had never had the spider actually be on me, so I wasn't freaking not too bad, and I was just trying to peel it off my face and off my shoulders. And I turned around to one of the people behind me, and I'm like, "Hey, you don't see the spider on me?" He's like, "Briggs, it's right on the side of your face." And I screamed, because I do not like spiders. And I was like, "No." Dr. Joy James: Isn't that funny? You're cool, calm, and collected, and then when you realize it was on you. Briggs Shealy: And so I was slapping my face, trying to get it off, and he was just laughing at me. Dr. Joy James: Yeah, I've had some of those. All right, what is an outdoor tip, or what is something you can't live without in the outdoors? So you can choose one, or you can do both of those. Briggs Shealy: I really love my food in the outdoors. So I will sacrifice some comfort, as far as clothing goes, in order to bring more food. And I'll just mention my favorite food item, if you can bring it, is taking a banana actually and wrapping it in some tin foil, and then cutting it open and putting chocolate and marshmallows inside of that, and just putting it in the coals of the fire. It's so good. Dr. Joy James: It's like a banana split. Briggs Shealy: It is, exactly. Dr. Joy James: And it's hard to explain that to people. It's like, "It's not ice cream, but it is tastes like it's a banana split." Briggs Shealy: The first time I heard about it, I was like, "There's no way that's good." But now I love it, it's really good. Dr. Joy James: Well, thank you for sharing that recipe. And the thing with food that I've noticed with camping, or backpacking, backpacking in particular, even crappy food tastes better. Have you noticed that? Briggs Shealy: Yes, you can make some really good meals out of some crappy food. Dr. Joy James: But if I made that same meal at my house, it doesn't taste... Briggs Shealy: It wouldn't taste good. Dr. Joy James: No, I don't know if it's because you had to work for it, or you're just so darn hungry, it just tastes phenomenal. All right, last question we have for you is, what is your favorite local outdoor spot here in Boone, North Carolina? Briggs Shealy: I think my favorite one, just within pretty easy driving range, would be Grandfather Mountain. I love hiking up the Profile Trail. I actually did it by myself a couple of weeks ago, and doing it by myself, that was phenomenal. I hiked all the way up to Macrae Peak, and just the view up there is great, the hike is awesome. Dr. Joy James: It's practically bouldering too. Briggs Shealy: It is. Dr. Joy James: You're climbing over things, you're going up ladders, how did your heights do on the ladders? Briggs Shealy: Not too bad, honestly. Since they are kind of relatively close to ground, it's not too bad. It's kind of like an off on thing for my fear of Heights. Dr. Joy James: Well Briggs, thank you very much for being willing to be a part of Outdoorosity, and thanks for sharing your experiences. Briggs Shealy: Yeah, thanks for having me. Melissa Weddell: Often when you combine adventure education with being in the outdoors you gain confidence, and refine your perceptions of what you're capable of when you navigate challenging situations. We just want to thank Briggs and Joy for sharing these stories as we sign off, and we always like to end with a quote that encourages you to get outdoors. As William Shakespeare said, "The earth has music for those who listen."

13. 

    24 Jun 2022

    Ep. 02: Megan Bryant - Big Adventures Empowered by Little Inspirations

    Dr. Joy James speaks with App State alumnae Megan Bryant about her her trek solo hiking the Appalachian Trail for 6 weeks covering 600 miles. Along the way she found a community of like minded people from many different walks of life, suffered through shin splints, discovered she was much stronger than she thought and even happened to meet her future fiance! Transcript: 00;00;19;00 - 00;00;51;06 Melissa Weddell Welcome to the Outdoorosity Podcast. Get outside. Keep going outside. Where we share Appalachian State stories that entertain, inspire and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story. The goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. The Outdoorosity Podcast is brought to you by the Hope Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise and play on healthy environment and human development. 00;00;51;16 - 00;01;16;22 Melissa Weddell The vision of the Hope Lab is to continue developing the perfect foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise and play through interdisciplinary research. Feel free to check us out at hopelab.appstate.edu. Hi, my name is Melissa Weddell. I'm a professor in Recreation Management at Appalachian State University and a self-proclaimed outdoor addict. I will be your host for the Outdoorosity Podcast. 00;01;17;04 - 00;01;45;06 Melissa Weddell On today's episode, team member Dr. Joy James, also Professor in Recreation Management Interviews Alumni Megan Bryant. We will be discussing the title of the episode, Big Adventures Empowered by Little Inspirations, where Megan tells us the story of how she moved from the city to attend Appalachian State University, why she made that decision in her journey from learning how to hike and enjoying the outdoors, to planning and participating in a six week backpacking trip on the Appalachian Trail. 00;01;46;07 - 00;01;48;14 Melissa Weddell Now, here's the interview with Joy and Megan. 00;01;50;27 - 00;02;10;16 Joy James So this is Joy James, and we have Megan Bryant here with us today to share her story on Outdoorosity. Megan, what I'd like you to do, if possible, if you would introduce yourself, kind of like where you from, how you ended up at Appalachian State. I know you've graduated and then tell us your favorite outdoor activity. 00;02;10;25 - 00;02;36;09 Megan Bryant Yeah. So I'm originally from Atlanta, Georgia, grew up there, but was always drawn up to the mountains, which is one of the reasons that most people end up it up to me, too. I did my first two years of college at the University of Georgia, and I studied environmental economics there. But the mix of the campus culture and also just the focus on economic use of the outdoors was just not where my interest was. 00;02;36;23 - 00;02;55;05 Megan Bryant When I was in high school. I originally applied and got into App, and after two years at UGA, I was like, I'm not happy here. I'm going to try to mix this up a bit. I love App, let's try that out again. So went out for two years and graduated there. I'd say my favorite outdoor activity. I love long distance backpacking, which I know we'll talk a bit about later. 00;02;55;16 - 00;02;58;28 Megan Bryant So that's my all time favorite outdoor activity. 00;02;59;04 - 00;03;04;25 Joy James Cool, so how would you say you first got interested in the outdoors, like your childhood or a friend? 00;03;05;01 - 00;03;22;16 Megan Bryant So my introduction to the outdoors was through Girl Scouts when I was in elementary school, going on little camp outs and stuff. And if you've ever been to The Hike Inn in North Georgia. It's Four miles out and then you stay at this awesome lodge and hike back. We did that and I was like, this is my type of thing. 00;03;22;16 - 00;03;44;15 Megan Bryant Like, I love this. And then as I got into high school, me and my friends love to go hiking. And then on spring break, when most people are going to the beach, we planned a big hiking trip with all of our friends and camping and all of that. And more and more as I was doing it, I was like, I love being outside and then when I got to college, I actually originally wanted to do international affairs and work for like State Department and like big government and stuff. 00;03;44;15 - 00;04;04;24 Megan Bryant And I was very quickly like, Oh, I'm not nearly as passionate about this as I am about being outside. Like I wanted to do National Park stuff. As I got more and more into college, I was like, This is what I want to do. And then I ended up doing a six week solo hike on the Appalachian Trail because I was kind of just lost and wasn't sure what I was going to do. 00;04;04;28 - 00;04;23;05 Megan Bryant After my first year at college. Having all that time out there kind of being like, not only is this opportunity awesome for me, just being able to be outside, like, I think I want to do something to give more people access to opportunities like this. So it was like, Oh, wow, this really helps me. I bet it can help other people too. 00;04;23;08 - 00;04;26;01 Megan Bryant I want to do this. And it was like down that path. 00;04;26;10 - 00;04;43;29 Joy James In terms of backpacking and that solo hike, what inspired you or helped you to make that plan? Because, you know, a lot of people don't like to do things by themselves and sometimes backpacking is a solo activity, but it can be social. How did you move from hiking with your friends to backpacking? 00;04;44;06 - 00;05;05;21 Megan Bryant I went backpacking twice with my aunt who lives out in California when I was in high school, when that was out in Yosemite. So it was like, oh yeah, starting up the best I knew it was awesome and I was like, This is incredible. Like, this is so great. The time to reflect out there. I really like I was saying I was feeling lost that like... 00;05;05;26 - 00;05;35;17 Megan Bryant I don't really feel like I have that many people that I can rely on to do a long trip. And I was like, Well, I can rely on myself. Let's make this happen. And when I reflect on that time of planning for my experience, the planning became a leisure activity of itself. When I had my free time, I was doing research, I was watching videos, I was going on the RV website or going to local outfitters and trying to figure out what the best sleeping bag would be because I had a super low budget for the trip. 00;05;35;17 - 00;05;58;20 Megan Bryant Like, what's the best sleeping bag, what's the best backpack, what's the weather going to look like? Because I was 18 when I went out there. That's also one of the things that brought me to doing the 80 instead of any other long trail was that I knew that there would be that community. Once I got out there, I felt super socially awkward at the time, so I was like, Even if I don't make any like super long term friends, you know, once I got out there was like a super big community. 00;05;58;20 - 00;06;04;09 Megan Bryant I was like, Oh my gosh, I actually get along with these people. What is this? This is crazy. But it's like, Oh, this makes sense. 00;06;04;28 - 00;06;06;14 Joy James Did you have a trail name for the app? 00;06;06;24 - 00;06;23;17 Megan Bryant I did, and my church name is Duct Tape. My second day out there, I was at Trail Magic with a bunch of people that were like yellow blazers. I kind of just drove from one trail crossing to another, and we were about to go into a really scenic section, Grace Highlands. And I was like, you know, I heard supposed rain for the next few days. 00;06;23;21 - 00;06;34;04 Megan Bryant And they said, if you keep perusing the weather like that, we're going to have to duct tape you to a tree. For some reason, I was like, All right. And then they're like, We're going to call you duct tape. And I'm like, Cool. Like, I have a trail yeah. 00;06;35;03 - 00;06;44;26 Joy James Well, a couple more things I want to go a little deeper into your backpacking planning and stuff like that. Before I do that, can you describe that feeling of lost? Like. 00;06;45;04 - 00;06;45;15 Megan Bryant Yeah. 00;06;45;24 - 00;06;55;04 Joy James You were just kind of not knowing what to do, like, what was that feeling? And then how did you get out of that feeling to direct yourself into backpacking? 00;06;55;04 - 00;07;15;00 Megan Bryant I mean, I was at a school that I didn't want to be in. I hadn't followed my heart. I was more like, This is a well-respected school and it has a good program, so I'm going to go there. Even though everything inside of me is like, don't go like I'm just going to go and like because will probably be good in the long term. 00;07;15;06 - 00;07;41;26 Megan Bryant So I wasn't really where I wanted to be. I wasn't setting stuff that made me passionate. So feeling really bogged down by the core Sloan and the tech stuff I was studying in the classroom environment, which was so different from App. It was very unprofessional. Also, the campus culture there was just not me. It was very sorority based or like really cultural in a way that I was in touch with, like really good music. 00;07;41;26 - 00;07;59;02 Megan Bryant And art and stuff. And I just was like, I don't know anything about that. So I was just having a really hard time finding my people in my place, and I knew I loved the outdoors, and I knew that when I started thinking about doing something like a big trip, like a big backpacking trip, I was feeling excited and I felt good. 00;07;59;14 - 00;08;02;00 Megan Bryant So I was like, I'm going to follow that. I'm going to make that happen. 00;08;02;12 - 00;08;05;17 Joy James How did you bring it to your parents? I want to do a six week solo hike. 00;08;07;07 - 00;08;22;15 Megan Bryant I inched into it. I was like, I think I want to do a big trip by myself. This summer. And then I was like, I think I want to go on the 80, Hey, here's all these documentaries that I can show you that we can watch together that show how many people are out there and here's all this cleaning that I've been doing. 00;08;22;15 - 00;08;44;07 Megan Bryant Like, Look, I'm not just coming up with this and just going to go. I have done my research. I feel like this is a safe enough place. Also, just kind of like reassuring myself, like I can do this myself. I would love my parents would be super supportive, which they ended up being super supportive. Just telling myself, even if they don't feel like it's the safest or best place I'm going to do this. 00;08;44;13 - 00;08;49;28 Megan Bryant So it's like a mix of trying to appease them, but also feeling self-assured in your journey. 00;08;50;26 - 00;09;06;10 Joy James Probably the process of trying to appease them help you as well. Like you were kind of buying all this stuff and that made you more confident when you were talking to them. Yeah, so ultimately they kind of were supportive of you as well. And so you did it during the summer. Does that mean you didn't work that summer? 00;09;06;10 - 00;09;10;04 Joy James You kind of worked really hard to save up, but like how did you afford to happen? 00;09;10;16 - 00;09;30;12 Megan Bryant I didn't like it two ways. So the reason why I did it for six weeks, I did it time based instead of distance based. My family was awesome with it eventually and once I had, they really felt secure about it, but they were like, Wherever you are, six weeks into it, we'll pick you up there. So I had that six week period the whole time. 00;09;30;12 - 00;09;46;24 Megan Bryant Before that, I worked really hard. I was a waitress at a sushi restaurant, works really hard as much as I could save up money. That pretty much all went into the trip afterwards. I came back after that six weeks and I nanny Donna Summer front loading and back loading and just trying to keep myself secure throughout it. 00;09;46;28 - 00;09;52;10 Joy James Yeah. What section did you end up doing did you start from the beginning? Did you pick that area? 00;09;52;22 - 00;10;10;13 Megan Bryant Yeah, I research a lot. I'm a very big planner, so I was like, I know I'm going to be starting May seven where is the bubble going to be? And I want to put myself right in the middle of it. And I was like, right in the beginning of Virginia. So I was like, you know, it'd be really fun if I started right at the base of Virginia. 00;10;10;13 - 00;10;28;11 Megan Bryant So I started in Damascus. My pipe dream was to get through Virginia, and I ended up getting three Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland and I my last day hiking, I crossed into Pennsylvania. So it was like 600 miles total, which I was not planning on doing, but I felt really proud of. 00;10;28;12 - 00;10;30;18 Joy James What was your original mileage you thought you would do? 00;10;30;27 - 00;10;45;04 Megan Bryant I thought that my longest day would be 15, but my first day I ended up doing 15 miles, which was not good planning. I got Shin splints three days into it. I did not think in the beginning, but my longest ended up being 25 miles. 00;10;45;13 - 00;10;50;16 Joy James And how did you persevere with sunspots? Like some people that would knock us off the trail. 00;10;51;00 - 00;11;09;08 Megan Bryant Yeah. So my sisters boyfriend at the time told me before I left, Hey, like I want you to know, like, you can call it quits at any time your family was talking. If you call it quits early, they can pick you up. And in my head I was like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to call it quits. 00;11;09;17 - 00;11;31;25 Megan Bryant It was like this feeling of, Don't tell me that I can't do it. Like, I can do it. So I ended up taking a ton of ibuprofen for a few days with my shin splints until I got into town. And I actually ended up staying in a motel room in Marion, Virginia, by myself for like four days, just trying to recover. 00;11;32;05 - 00;11;53;10 Megan Bryant And that was definitely a why am I doing this moment? But I just was like really hard headed and get through it. And then a few days later, because I was keeping my mileage down because of the shin splints. And the next day, I think this hiker named Weather Man was like, oh, you have shin splints. I had these really long socks that compress your legs and can help you with shin splints. 00;11;53;10 - 00;12;04;21 Megan Bryant Do you want them? And I was like, yeah, awesome. So it's like the trail provides. It's what people say. And it helped me out, and I just had to really watch my mileage for the next week. Yeah. 00;12;06;11 - 00;12;29;16 Melissa Weddell As we listened to Megan's story, one of the purposes of the podcast is to also inspire you to get outdoors. Recent literature discusses an abundance of benefits for your health through being in nature. We know that being outside and exercising includes improved heart and lung fitness, fewer cardiovascular risk factors, fewer deaths, and less coronary heart disease. It also reduces your risk of cancer and reduces obesity. 00;12;29;23 - 00;12;52;11 Melissa Weddell While these are physical aspects of being outside and exercising, there are many emotional and intellectual aspects where research has shown that we can concentrate more just by taking a ten minute walk around the neighborhood, having nature around us, whether we have plants around us or in our work. Home, Office or Windows. These health benefits are documented through different disciplines that we represent in the Hope Lab. 00;12;53;09 - 00;12;59;12 Melissa Weddell In the next half, Megan shares more of her experiences and how she became more comfortable in the outdoors. 00;13;01;27 - 00;13;18;09 Joy James While you're on the trail, what did you learn about yourself? And then as an outdoor person, what did you learn that you didn't know before about the outdoors or a skill or something that is going to help you like with your pursuit of being a backpacker for the rest of your life? 00;13;18;09 - 00;13;41;14 Megan Bryant Yeah, so I tell you what I learned about myself is that I'm a lot stronger than I think I am and that I can push through a lot more than I think I could. There were like so many moments that if there had been a road where I was, I may have hitchhiked and called it quits. But when you're stuck in the middle of the woods and you're five miles to a road crossing, you have five miles to think about, OK, this is why I'm doing this. 00;13;41;19 - 00;13;58;12 Megan Bryant I'm going to try to push on or, you know, you meet someone that's like, OK, this is why I'm doing this. I can do this. So I really found out that not only I'm like I'm strong enough, but I can find strength in other people and that's OK also because that's a big thing you'll hear on the edge is a big part of it is the people in the community. 00;13;59;03 - 00;14;24;14 Megan Bryant And then from an outdoor perspective, I think a lot of that, what I learned came from the just huge, diverse array of people that I met, veterans and retired folks and people that were triathletes and people that had never gone backpacking a day in their life, like just this huge array of people that were out there recreating and doing something totally transformative and crazy for themselves. 00;14;24;25 - 00;14;53;11 Megan Bryant And as an outdoor professional or just as a recreation professional in general, I think seeing that can show you like, oh, anyone can benefit from recreation. These opportunities that, you know, sometimes you think like, oh, you have to be like peak fitness be mentally like super disciplined to get done with something like no, like anyone who puts their mind to getting themselves involved in some sort of recreation or awesome leisure activity can find that enrichment and improvement. 00;14;53;19 - 00;15;00;23 Megan Bryant And that was super inspiring to me. And that was one of the reasons why I was like, OK, I'm definitely going down the rec pathway once I got a rate hike. 00;15;01;25 - 00;15;21;11 Joy James You put it so well. It's amazing with the human body and the human mind can overcome regardless of our ability, our size, the amount of money we have. If we want to do it and put our mind to it, we could do it and it could be transformative. And you kind of mentioned this transformation sounds like the trail change your perspective of a career. 00;15;21;20 - 00;15;40;19 Megan Bryant I was leaning environmental law at the time. I actually took some law classes trying to figure out like, I think this is what I want to do. But it was like being out there, really seeing direct experience with nature and direct experience with yourself can do. And I was like, I want to go the recreation side of things. 00;15;41;05 - 00;16;06;05 Megan Bryant Yeah. Like doing a big law case that protects an area of land is awesome. That land has so much worth in itself but think about how much protection that land can spread if people are able to, like, engage with that area of land. And that's where I'm now looking for and where I'd like to go because I found that, oh, I can have that desire of protection, due protection with sustainable recreation use on land. 00;16;06;08 - 00;16;16;01 Megan Bryant And that's where I'm most passionate about. And being an app and working with the risk management department really helps me like figure out, wind down like, OK, this is what I think I want to do. 00;16;16;05 - 00;16;34;03 Joy James Yeah, cool. This may go back to more in your childhood, but you were hiking a lot as a young person and then you decided I wanted to go and do this backpack. But what actually created comfort for you to go to the bathroom in the outdoors or to just be comfortable with insect or be uncomfortable with being wet? 00;16;34;09 - 00;16;37;13 Joy James Like, how did you become comfortable in outdoor settings? 00;16;37;27 - 00;17;05;03 Megan Bryant Experience? 100% experience. I was like, I'm not going to be able to be comfortable going to the bathroom or I'm not going to be comfortable going six, seven days without a shower. But the only way you're able to see if you can or if you can't is if you do it. If you put yourself in that uncomfortable position, I realized that I don't mind there being little bugs around me, but if they're near my eyes, it really bothers me. 00;17;05;03 - 00;17;30;14 Megan Bryant I hate it. So it's like, OK, when I'm out there, I'm going to put a little bit of like a Groupon here and like I'm able to make the adjustment instead of never going out there because I'm afraid I may not like bugs and not realizing how to make those adjustments to make recreation work for you. So I think if you're curious about something, if you think that something might be a way to like be like intriguing and transformational, like try it and then try to make adjustments for you. 00;17;31;02 - 00;17;50;22 Joy James OK, cool. This is kind of like a social media question, but it shouldn't have to be social media response. I've been reading about influencers and how they influence people on social media. And so another way of looking at this is was there an influencer or a mentor or someone in your life? It sounds like your aunt took you to Yosemite, but like, was it her? 00;17;50;22 - 00;18;06;12 Joy James Was there someone else that kind of really I mean, just the fact that you were a high school student, hiking is where yeah. And from Atlanta, I'm like, there was Atlanta. You know, all I did was Stone Mountain for how did you go seek that out yeah. 00;18;06;21 - 00;18;33;06 Megan Bryant I. I feel like it may have been field trips, eso mountain or for Science Center or if you're from Atlanta, I bet you if that were like OK, let's give these kids as little experience with outdoors and then let's let them explore that. I was an environmental education intern at a nature center back in Athens, and that was a big part of what we did, which was just getting kids into nature and seeing kind of what sticks and what's intriguing to them. 00;18;33;15 - 00;18;47;28 Megan Bryant And I think those experiences, especially with kids, are so wonderful and can lead someone who's lives in Atlanta in a kind of a concrete jungle, like getting them to prioritize nature and natural experiences. Yeah. 00;18;48;09 - 00;19;00;14 Joy James Some of your experience mirrors some of mine as that young person, but I'm assuming the Sandy Creek Nature Center you were at and did you volunteer at them because that was something you want to do? Or is that a class assignment for you at the University of Georgia? 00;19;00;19 - 00;19;25;14 Megan Bryant No, I was wanting to get involved I was wanting to do something with my days, and I was taking a class through UGA was Forestry and Natural Resources College were now and because I was in one class, I was technically on their listserv and Sandy Creek sent out an email that was like, Hey, if you want to volunteer, you'll come in a few mornings a month, bring some kids on hikes. 00;19;25;14 - 00;19;43;29 Megan Bryant And I was like, That sounds awesome. That sounds like so much fun. So I volunteered with them for probably a year and I just went in one morning and we were kind of just getting like told what the curriculum is going to be and what standards we want to meet and stuff. And they were like, Oh, also, we have a paid internship and you can do this pretty much on a bigger scale. 00;19;43;29 - 00;20;02;13 Megan Bryant And do animal encounters and go to the farmer's markets and do all this fun stuff. And I was like, I would love to do that. And I was looking for a summer job. I thought I was going to have to work at like a restaurant or something again. And I was like, No, I want to do that prep for the interview to handwrite it, written thank you notes, which is totally like trying my hardest. 00;20;02;13 - 00;20;19;08 Megan Bryant And I got the internship and it wasn't for a class or anything. I just really wanted working with kids, working in the outdoors. I love animals. I like working with animals. I like this is going to be the best. And it was awesome. It was like a super cool way to be like, Oh, this is a job. Like, this is an actual job I could do. 00;20;19;17 - 00;20;27;00 Megan Bryant These are people that are employed that are literally like just doing the most exciting stuff. Like, I want to do this. I can actually do this. 00;20;27;10 - 00;20;42;12 Joy James Not to bemoan that, but I wish, you know, Boone had a nature center similar to Sandy Creek Thriving program because it would be a great partnership for our students and all majors to be able to have access to that experience that you have. 00;20;42;18 - 00;21;00;05 Megan Bryant Yeah, it was super great. They had a sea turtle and snakes and bearded dragon, like just awesome animals and their interpretive hall any of our students would freak about it because it was so interactive and engaging. Great signage. Just awesome. The dream. 00;21;01;08 - 00;21;20;08 Joy James One last question. And then I go into another segment. We were wondering if you could share a story with us about an outdoor experience. You've kind of been sharing your backpacking experience, but think about it on a micro level. Is there a moment that was really funny, revealing, or hilarious? That's a story that you'd be willing to share with our listeners? 00;21;20;16 - 00;21;45;20 Megan Bryant Yeah, it was one of those Appalachian periods where it rains for like five days straight. You ever see this guy? I sat down, I was like, I am so in pain right now. I am miserable. I took my shoes off to try to like, treat my feet. My feet were so blistered and pruney that there wasn't even any point I was just like, OK, let me make my plan to leave. 00;21;46;06 - 00;22;06;29 Megan Bryant This was like my lowest, just every step miserable. And I was like, I need something right now to make me feel good. And I turned a corner and I knew I was Enemy Crossy Road. I said a little bit of like Blue or some, like, human color. And I'm like, probably someone just sitting there like, don't get excited, keep walking. 00;22;06;29 - 00;22;28;16 Megan Bryant And I'm like, Don't get excited. Like, it's probably nothing. They're like, Everything sucks. They're going to be anything good. Right now, the world's general and I get closer and I see that it's this huge set up through true magic and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, please let there be something. Cause I was a vegetarian at the time, and I was like, probably not going to be able to get anything, like everything, socks, whatever. 00;22;28;27 - 00;22;50;23 Megan Bryant And I walk up and like, the first thing they say is, Do you eat meat? And I was like, No, we have veggie burgers for you. Awesome. No problem. We want grilled onions. We got grilled onions, like putting together all these burgers and like, I sit down, I start talking to them. And it turns out that they were from the town my sister was living in and that their daughter lived in the same area that my parents lived in. 00;22;51;01 - 00;23;10;27 Megan Bryant And she worked at our family's favorite restaurant of all time. And I was like, I'm not a superstitious person or anything, but I was just like, this is crazy. I was literally at the like, This is it. I'm done. It was like the best food ever. Something I could eat as many snacks as I could want. All these nice people there, everything about these people's life fit into mine. 00;23;11;07 - 00;23;23;13 Megan Bryant It was like, OK, I can do it. And I just think that feeling of even when things can be like super at the lowest that people can really come together, lift you up from there. That's like a moment that stuck out of my mind. 00;23;23;26 - 00;23;32;03 Joy James As a hiker, and particularly at the age you're familiar with this. But could you describe what trail magic means? Yeah, your listeners who may not know what that means. 00;23;32;19 - 00;23;52;17 Megan Bryant There's a whole lexicon of hiker words. Trail magic is when traditionally people that aren't hiking leave things or station at road crossing and either make a lot of food or leave really good treats and stuff. I've seen it where a lady just put a little box of homemade cookies and a little note on it, like true magic. Take one if you like. 00;23;52;27 - 00;24;12;11 Megan Bryant Or it could be like this where they apparently made breakfast, lunch and dinner. Wow. And beers, soda, snacks, anything anyone could ever want. Sometimes it's like a whole grill out. It's just people taking time out of their days to just give to hikers. And they never charge any money or really ask for anything. It's more just you guys are doing something really hard, really awesome. 00;24;12;13 - 00;24;14;00 Megan Bryant I want to give you guys some love. 00;24;14;08 - 00;24;21;02 Joy James It's really quite amazing. And it goes along with what you're saying about meeting people and that community of support. 00;24;21;23 - 00;24;40;22 Megan Bryant Because a lot of times our culture really promotes individualism doing it yourself. And a lot of people like hear that people go out on long hikes by themselves. You must have really had to push through. Well, I pushed through a fair bit, but if I didn't have so many awesome people around me, I wouldn't have been able to get through it. 00;24;40;28 - 00;24;53;19 Megan Bryant I think we need to realize, yeah, personal motivation is awesome, but personal motivation is lonely. If you don't have people to share it with, it's awesome to really engage in a community especially a community of people that are creating alongside you, I think is really special. Yeah. 00;24;54;01 - 00;25;01;05 Joy James Do you see yourself doing the A.T. as a section hiker or do you want to ever pursue it all in one fell swoop? 00;25;01;23 - 00;25;20;04 Megan Bryant I definitely want to do it all in one fell swoop. I actually met my now fiance on the trail. Oh, I have this partner now in my life. We are able to like want to do these same things together. And he did half the trail and I did a quarter of it. And we're like we have certain beginning and end. 00;25;20;18 - 00;25;38;22 Megan Bryant Like we don't want to just do the parts we don't like. We want to do it all through. And right now, you know, we're like settling in. We don't quite have the funds to do it, but as soon as we can, as soon as the time's right, we're getting out there. We love to do the PCT and do as many as we can because it's our thing. 00;25;38;22 - 00;25;39;01 Megan Bryant We, you. 00;25;39;01 - 00;25;53;23 Joy James Know, it's almost like it's going to happen because my I had a college buddy who she did the 80 and at the time they didn't have the Internet to meet people she knew. She didn't want to do it by herself. So she was not like you in terms of the solo and we just didn't have a lot of information. 00;25;53;23 - 00;26;21;05 Joy James So she, there was a club newsletter that you could get and she found this guy and so they started hiking together. She hated him. He had her and they partied in Pennsylvania, which apparently is one of the most difficult parts of the trail, from what I understand. And then in the brief period of time they stopped, they realized they couldn't live without each other, and then did the eight in the next year together and got married at the bottom of Mount Katahdin. 00;26;21;21 - 00;26;41;08 Joy James That's on the hike, the last part up. So and then they did the PCT and they did I mean, so it really is interesting, once you start kind of getting into that crowd of people, you not only maybe meet partners or significant others, but you you get more support and encouragement so that you feel inspired that I can continue to do these big type of hikes. 00;26;42;04 - 00;27;03;12 Joy James Oh, cool. That kind of finishes out the questions that we have for you. And one of the things we're doing with the people that we're interviewing is to segment getting the dirt on getting outside, particularly in boom. And I know you're living in Asheville now that you've graduated, but I have like four questions. So what is your biggest fear about being in the outdoors? 00;27;04;15 - 00;27;26;22 Megan Bryant Whitewater really fast moving water can't do it. I have friends that do whitewater kayaking and stuff. I've tried it petrified is neat. I recently did the little gorge loop, a backpack that was a friend, and there's a point where you have to swim across to bring your pack over and it's like a whole thing and just swimming across water. 00;27;26;22 - 00;27;32;10 Megan Bryant That was pretty slowly moving toward a rapid I can't do it. That's my biggest fear. 100%. 00;27;32;27 - 00;27;37;00 Joy James All right. What is your most embarrassing outdoor moment? 00;27;38;18 - 00;27;50;02 Megan Bryant When I was in Yosemite and we didn't put our food away, right? And Chipmunks got into all of our food and we had to go back early. Yeah, I would say that's probably the most embarrassing. Not even the Bears chipmunk. 00;27;50;10 - 00;28;12;06 Joy James I had a raccoon eat through one of my backpacks I had Eminem's rolled up in my raincoat in a pocket, like in the middle, and the raccoon ate the pork. It got to the Eminem. So I enjoyed those. Eminem. All right, the third question, what is a must have when you go backpacking or in the outdoors? What's something of a piece of equipment? 00;28;13;04 - 00;28;44;23 Megan Bryant I have a lot because whenever people are like getting into gear and like a bunch of different stuff. But I would say my top recommendation is a squeeze water filter. It seems so simple, but so many people use pumps or the tablets or bleach or aqua mirror and stuff. But having something that when you're on a really long hike, you get to a water source that you can just immediately drink water just by like squeezing it into your mouth or into another water bottle or something I think is the biggest game changer and get the school sized ones not the little ones full size. 00;28;44;26 - 00;28;46;23 Joy James And what did you call it in a squeeze? 00;28;46;23 - 00;29;05;11 Megan Bryant We the Sawyer squeeze water filter. I keep one in my car. It's so worth it. So you don't have to risk getting any sort of digestive problem or sick, just immediate water. I've gotten so many backpacking trips with people that use tablets and they're having to do all that. Flipping around and shaking and waiting have said all these times, I'm squeezing my water bottle. 00;29;05;11 - 00;29;07;26 Megan Bryant I'm good to go. I think it's such a game changer. 00;29;08;03 - 00;29;12;04 Joy James All right. And then what's your favorite local spot in Boone? 00;29;12;14 - 00;29;38;09 Megan Bryant So I trail run a lot. I actually lived in Blowing Rock, and I would go to Moses all the time, and a lot of people go to Moses and they're like, this isn't really like good hiking. And because it's so, like paved and gravel and stuff and like it's like it's not real hiking, but it's so great for training running because there's 20 something miles of trails so you're able to make loops that are longer as you get more comfortable and awesome. 00;29;38;09 - 00;29;45;25 Megan Bryant Really mildly great. Great for horses, great views. You get to see the house and everything and I really miss Moses Cohn and running all around there. 00;29;45;27 - 00;29;53;29 Joy James It really is a treat to have that. And even though it may not be like the hiking experience, it's still nature. Yeah, and getting the sand. 00;29;54;00 - 00;30;17;20 Megan Bryant It's such an accessible place. People that may not be super experienced with hiking are able to get out in nature, feel what it's like to like someone up that mountain, get to the house and stuff. Like they're able to have those experiences that even though like as a professional, you might be like Oh, this isn't real rock, but it's like, think about all the doors that a place like this could open for people. 00;30;18;00 - 00;30;19;27 Megan Bryant I think it's such an awesome resource. 00;30;20;00 - 00;30;44;29 Melissa Weddell Been as Megan shares how she became comfortable in the outdoors, you may be reminded of who introduced you to a new outdoor activity or experience. When Megan talks about her time in Yosemite with her aunt, we can refer back to some research examining environmental socialization experiences in the outdoors. What we know is that experiences as a child often shapes our ability to be comfortable in the outdoors. 00;30;44;29 - 00;31;06;17 Melissa Weddell We have outdoor experiences we can kind of think of like a ladder. You take the first up, the second step, the next step, and pretty soon you're a conservationist or an outdoor enthusiast. If you are new to the outdoors, some local options are to visit Grandfather Mountain which has an amazing nature center where you could also volunteer April and December or what we call dollar days. 00;31;06;17 - 00;31;33;13 Melissa Weddell Local students, employees or anyone in the community can go for a reduced price. These are great spaces to go and learn about animals and to go hiking on more developed trails where you will see people around other opportunities in our area, our Moses Cone in the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is close to campus, we have other small trails around campus that you can also hike personally, we like to use the all trail app on our phone. 00;31;33;13 - 00;31;50;00 Melissa Weddell What's nice about this is even if you don't have cell service, it has GPS and can tell you exactly where you are. On the trail. Remember, outdoors is a learning process. You're not going to go on your first trip or your first hike and have everything go right and say it was perfect. This is not how it goes. 00;31;50;10 - 00;32;13;14 Melissa Weddell Mother Nature has her own mind. The weather can change. You can get a blister, have an animal encounter. Things are constantly changing. Each situation is different and we all make a lot of mistakes. But remember, every experience is an opportunity to learn. But you need to continue moving forward and continue braving those challenges. We want to thank Megan Enjoy for sharing these stories. 00;32;13;14 - 00;32;22;00 Melissa Weddell As we sign off, we want to end with a quote and encourage you to get outdoors. Remember a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

14. 

    29 Apr 2022

    Ep.01: Meet Your Hosts

    In the first episode of Appalachian Outdoorosity we explain what the podcast is about and introduce you to our team. Melissa Weddell, Becki Battista and Joy James share a bit themselves as well as some stories about their time together in the outdoors. Transcript: Melissa Weddell: Welcome to Outdoorosity, the get outside and keep going outside podcast, where we share Appalachian State stories to entertain, inspire, and inform listeners about living an active outdoor lifestyle. Each episode features a story with the goal to get you outside and keep you going outside to improve your overall wellness. Our goal is to promote Healthy Outdoor Play & Exercise across the lifespan or what we call HOPE. Melissa Weddell: The HOPE Lab, where our purpose is to investigate the role of outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play on health, the environment, and human development, the vision of the HOPE Lab is to continue developing the scientific foundation for promoting and supporting outdoor physical activity, exercise, and play through interdisciplinary research. You can check us out online at hopelab.appstate.edu. My name is Melissa Weddell. Melissa Weddell: Today, we are going to introduce your three hosts. But before we get started, we wanted to share with you some benefits of being in the outdoors. According to the American Public Health Association, people of all ages and ability enjoy higher levels of health and well-being when they have nature nearby in parks, gardens, green ways, naturalized school yards and playgrounds, and natural landscaping around homes and workplaces. Melissa Weddell: Access to nature has been related to lower levels of mortality and illness, higher levels of outdoor physical activity, restoration from stress, and a greater sense of well-being and social capital. The integration of nature into towns and cities has secondary benefits that contribute to better health and more sustainable societies. Melissa Weddell: Given the importance of contact with nature for well-being, the American Public Health Association and the HOPE Lab supports the protection and restoration of nature and the environment where people live, work, and play at every scale, from building sites to large regional park systems and ecologically sustainable rural areas. With that said, we would like to introduce ourselves as host. Joy James, would you like to go first? Joy James: Yes. I am a professor of recreation management here at Appalachian State University. I teach a lot about how people spend time in the outdoors. I thought I'd share with you a little bit about how I came to love or realize the outdoors was a space that I wanted to be in. Imagine the possibilities within yourself and the outdoors, and then transferring it to daily life. And that's sort of like what Melissa was saying were some of the benefits. That's what happened to me as a young girl who was shy and lacked confidence. Joy James: I was involved in Girl Scouts, which is already a nerdy thing to do, right? And a strike against me in the popular crowd. But I found I loved it because it was all about getting outdoors and I was learning backpacking and camping and having fun and goofing off and really making connections with the other girls. It was also something that my other classmates weren't doing. I could come back after a weekend and said, "I was learning disco," which has nothing to do with that outdoors. Joy James: But I also could come back and say, "I went backpacking, or I went camping." One formidable experience for me was our troop went hiking to Mount LeConte Lodge, which is a lodge in the Smokeys near Gatlinburg when I was about 15 years old. This was kind of like a precursor to backpacking for me. We didn't have to bring a sleeping bag. We didn't have to bring cooking gear. The lodge provided food and a place for us to rest. All I had to do was just hike up there with a change of clothes. Joy James: Also, it was unusual for me being from Georgia. The elevation was about 6,593 feet. And not having ever seen anything like that or hiked anything like that was a daunting task that I wasn't quite sure I was capable of doing it. I don't remember how many people were in the group, but what I do remember about the number in our troop was we had three groups, a fast group, a medium group, and a slow group. Joy James: I was the only one that was in the medium group, because I was not very fast and I wasn't slow at the time, although my two friends here would say I'm slow now. At that time, I was a little more of a medium, and I could yo-yo between the two groups. What would happen is I would be by myself, and then I would catch up to the fast group and chat with them. And then I would wait for the other group while the fast group took off, and then talk with the slow group, and then I would take off. Joy James: What I started to it was this sense of I didn't mind being by myself in the woods, but I also got to be social. It was the best of both worlds. I really loved it. I was in nature and I could meet the physical challenge, while not necessarily taking away from other people's experiences. I was able to go at my own pace. When I was hiking with the other groups, if I did stay with them, I felt like I was being supportive and I was growing comfortable with others and making connections. Joy James: When we reached the lodge at the top, we met other interesting hikers who found it interesting that this Girl Scout troop was hiking. They also told stories about their personal adventures. I just wanted more of that. That's kind of a pinnacle experience for me where I realized I was capable. I was also could be by myself, but I also was liked for who I was and what I brought to the table and being supportive. This adventure while little and not very big in scope, it led to me becoming a camp counselor, a bike tour guide. Joy James: I went on to be a park ranger, a sea kayak guide, and ultimately where I am today, sitting here behind this microphone talking to you guys, a professor of recreation. The outdoor has always given me confidence in life, which has translated into my professional and personal success. I have to say without the outdoors and the recreation activities I did in the past some years, I would not be who I am today, confident and adventurous. Melissa Weddell: Thank you, Joy. We really appreciate you sharing that story and all the people and students that clearly you've impacted along the way. I think what's great is that you've been able to turn that into your full-time career. We get to share that with students here at Appalachian State. Up next, another researcher and host, Dr. Becki Battista. Becki Battista: Hi, thanks for the introduction. My name is Becki Battista, and I am a professor in the department of health and exercise science. My area really is around exercise. If you've had a class with me or have any vague knowledge of what I do, I'm all about promoting physical activity. When I think about the outdoors and why this area is really of interest to me, I think, as I reflect back on it, it really goes back to I love sports. I always have loved sports. My parents were active. My dad played softball. Becki Battista: My brother played soccer. Sports were just a part of my life since probably age five. All the sports I did were always outside. It was soccer. I wanted to play football when I was little. I mean, everything that you could imagine I wanted to try. Because my dad was in the Air Force, we moved around a lot. When I think about where I'm really from, I am really from Delaware, but we lived in Texas, and we lived in Virginia, and we lived in Alabama. Becki Battista: And in all of those places, I remember as a kid going back into the streams and trying to catch tadpoles or going camping all the time in Alabama. We had a camper. As a family, we joined a camping group. We always went out on weekends in the State of Alabama, which there are some pretty phenomenal camping places. I remember one specifically that was around a lake. I loved going to that one particular campground because it was just... You could ride bikes everywhere. Becki Battista: You could go swimming in the lake, and you could go hiking on the trails, which my brother and I did quite often. But then we moved to Delaware when I was probably 10 and Delaware, super small state, but Delaware is along the coast. I started to have friends that always went down to the beach. And all of a sudden, the beach became like my happy place. It was just relaxing, the sound of the wave, just walking along the ocean. I mean, it was really just a great place to be. Becki Battista: I thought I always want to live near the beach. Well, my life kind of changed a little bit with all the education that I had. I was a PE major, again, because I love sports, and I ended up moving to Colorado. In Colorado, there's mountains. And all of a sudden, I realized, these are pretty spectacular also. I lived in Colorado at a time that I was by myself. I wasn't making a lot of money. I was out of graduate school, and I would have to do things on my own. I'd go hiking. I'd go running on the trails. Becki Battista: Just kind of learning how to navigate that by yourself is a little bit of a challenge, but it was so beautiful that I couldn't resist. Everybody in Colorado always goes outside. If you're not outside, it's strange. After I moved from Colorado and I went to graduate school to get my PhD in growth and motor development, from there, I learned a few things about Michigan. The State of Michigan is also beautiful. It had some great lakes and had some great outdoor adventures when I was in Michigan. Becki Battista: And then from Michigan, I moved to Wisconsin, and I think that's where I kind of brought my childhood memories into my adult world, where I always loved being outside. I loved playing sports. In Wisconsin, I met a colleague who was a physical education person and he was all about outdoor education. I was intrigued by this because Wisconsin also has some beautiful outdoor areas and I was always willing to kind of go up for a challenge. Becki Battista: He asked me one day if I wanted to go on a trip with some students to Colorado and go rock climbing. Well, who's going to pass up a trip to go to Colorado? It was really at that time watching what he did with those students and allowing me to be a part of that which solidified my absolute love of the outdoors and I think made me understand that outdoors can be part of my research interest. I love of being active. I love being outside. Becki Battista: That time spent in Colorado seeing the students, graduate students and undergraduate students, climb rocks, which was a challenge all within itself, really kind of solidified why I think the outdoors to me is a place of comfort. It allows me to feel kind of whole again. If I am stressed out, I'll go for a walk in the woods. All I have to do is just stand and look around and just the beauty of the trees and the sun shining through the trees, it's just amazing. Becki Battista: For me, it's a way to get my physical activity and it's a way to kind of destress a little bit. I would not have known that if it wasn't for kind of participating in some research that related back to physical education. That's kind of my story. Melissa Weddell: Thank you, Becki. Not only do you share this with your students, you have been one of the founding members of the HOPE Lab, but you keep us all on a schedule. We can find you out at Moses Cone running on Saturday mornings, and you are very consistent with your physical activity outdoors. Always a great adventure partner. Thank you both. You've heard my voice from the beginning. My name is Melissa Weddell. Melissa Weddell: I teach also in recreation management with Dr. Joy James, but all of us are in the college of health science. We have packaged this together to talk about physical activity and health and wellness and in outdoors. My story's a little bit different. I'm originally from Northern Indiana. I grew up on a large farm. I did not realize at the time as a young girl all the access to outdoors that I had in my comfort with the outdoors. We were able to ride horses all around the county. Melissa Weddell: My grandparents had a lake cottage. I wouldn't think about it in the terms that you would today as some really nice second home. They built it in the '60s. We'd be at the lakes on the weekends and playing indoors just wasn't something that we did. We also didn't have air conditioning in the summer, so no one wanted to be inside. I grew up hunting and fishing, and we would go sit in the woods for hours in the fall. And as a young girl, I didn't always like that. But later on, I realized how much I cherished that time. Melissa Weddell: That's really where I started to develop this love of the outdoors. In terms of camping and hiking and mountain biking and all this stuff, we didn't really do any of that. We lived on so much land that that wasn't what we did for vacation. That was kind of everyday life. When I went away to graduate school, I met various people that started to do all of this outdoor recreation. I was able to get a mountain bike and start mountain biking in all these cool destinations. Melissa Weddell: I will say that it was very challenging and it was a new way to experience the outdoors. And much like Becki talked about, it was a real place of restoration for me to not only have the physical aspect, but to be in these beautiful surroundings. Some of the takeaways that I've had have been... I do love to be in the outdoors and suffer. I like things to be hard. It makes me... If I have a really hard mountain bike ride, I forget whatever stress I had. I'm physically challenging myself. Melissa Weddell: I also am one of those people that enjoy a little thrill or an adrenaline rush. When you're in your tent at night, if you hear something outside, if you know it's a raccoon or maybe a buffalo or a bear or something, that's really exciting to me and hiking and being part of that. Those have been some of my experiences. What I've also noticed is through the years, specifically with mountain biking or just going camping, leading various women's groups or inviting women to go on trips and introducing other folks to the outdoors is extremely rewarding to me. Melissa Weddell: I really enjoy it. I never considered myself to have a lot of outdoor skills, but through the years, I've realized I just have a comfort that makes it easier for other people to go with me. I really enjoy being dirty is what I've learned. That's always been a little bit of a joke, but the outdoors is just such a great place. I think as we look at the amount of time that we spend on technology, really highlighting the importance of the outdoors and physical activity and getting out there is more imperative now than ever. Melissa Weddell: As we kind of wrap up our first introduction of this podcast, I also wanted to share that Joy, Becki and I have been friends for over a decade. Some of us were friends before we came to App State. We've all been here together for probably 11 years now. One of our first trips together was going to Alaska. We spent two weeks in Alaska kind of traveling around. We spent about four days in Denali. We have some really fun stories to share. Melissa Weddell: We often made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every morning at the campsite before we left. A little known fact, Joy does not like peanut butter, which we all still can't quite understand, but we've allowed to work through that. But in efficiency, as you will, someone said, "Well, why doesn't one person just make all the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for that day so we could kind of divide our duties?" I think what was so funny was that we all made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches differently. Melissa Weddell: Some people didn't like the crust. Some people like the peanut butter spread all the way to the end. Some people like their jelly in the middle. Some people like it cut in fours. That was just one of many jokes that we were able to share. Since then, of course, we have gone on numerous outdoor adventures and pick different places. Some close to home. Some as far away as Alaska. I think some of those real benefits for us is not only the physical activity and being outside and adventuring are these lifelong friendships that we make and the things that we share with each other. Melissa Weddell: I know, Becki, you've pointed out, sometimes one person might be scared and the other person's not scared. You're like, okay, I feel like I have a little more confidence because I know Joy can do this, and so I'm going to do it too, even though that makes me really, really nervous, or I think all of us have good and bad days. On our bad days, the friends we travel with and go outside with could be having a really good day. We're able to carry each other. Melissa Weddell: Those bonds and understanding each other really keep us together for lifelong friendships. With that said in our introductions, really the impetus of this was to share our stories, but then to start a journey of sharing other folk stories. We know that people come to the Blue Ridge Mountains, to the high country, to Boone, mainly to be in the outdoors. There's something very beautiful, very spiritual. The mountains speak to us. We have technology demands like never before. Melissa Weddell: We have this real nature deficit disorder. How do we get out in the outdoors? How do we highlight people that are doing it? And in those experience, how are lives being changed on our campus? We are going to have a series of speakers that we are going to interview and share with you stories from our university that we hope inspire you. I just want to thank Joy and Becki and all the folks that are going to make this possible. Again, the HOPE Lab, you can visit us at hopelab.appstate.edu to learn more. Melissa Weddell: Again, thank you for joining us. Remember to get outside and keep going outside and life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

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