Growth isn’t just about great products—it’s about mastering the AI-driven forces shaping business today. Our podcast explores how companies can thrive in a world of data, machine learning, and constant change.
Join entrepreneur and AI expert Frost Li, alongside Jun Wang—the technology leader who propelled Twitter's SMB revenue from zero to billions—as they challenge norms and share practical insights on AI, growth hacking, and digital platforms. Algorithms might rewrite the rules, but human expertise is your edge. If you're ready to outsmart the future, hit follow and join the conversation!
AI Hype-chasing: The Case for JOMO -- late mover advantage?
AI FOMO is everywhere — but does every company really need an AI agent, chatbot, or “AI-powered” product story?
In this episode of Beyond Algorithms, Jun Wang and Frost Li discuss how companies should think about AI adoption without blindly chasing hype. They explore the difference between AI that creates real business value and AI that merely looks good to investors, boards, or the market.
From bad customer-facing chatbots to smarter internal automation, the conversation offers a practical framework for deciding where AI belongs, where it doesn’t, and why the “joy of missing out” may sometimes be the smartest strategy.
6 May 2026
Are We Measuring AI Adoption All Wrong?
In this first episode of the new season of Beyond Algorithms, Jun and Frost kick things off with a timely question: are we measuring AI adoption all wrong?
They unpack how companies are rushing to track AI usage through tokens, sessions, and spend—without a clear understanding of what success actually looks like. The conversation dives into the tension between input metrics and real outcomes, and why optimizing for usage can quietly derail ROI.
You’ll hear why leadership narratives around AI don’t always match employee reality, how “AI washing” is shaping the layoff conversation, and what metrics actually matter if you want better business results—not just bigger dashboards. Jun and Frost also explore why AI is less about cutting headcount and more about filling talent gaps, and how a lack of clarity is driving anxiety across teams.
You’ll learn:
• Why token usage is a misleading signal of AI success
• The only three metrics that actually matter for evaluating AI impact
• How unclear AI mandates create confusion—and what leaders should do instead
• Why learning by doing is the fastest way to stay relevant in an AI-driven workplace
Whether you’re leading an AI transformation, experimenting with new tools, or trying to make sense of the pressure to “use more AI,” this episode sets the foundation for what really matters in the next phase of adoption.
Tune in for a candid reset on AI strategy, practical frameworks for measurement, and a clearer way to think about the future of work.
24 Sept 2025
When Devs Tattoo Your Logo—But the Buyers Don’t Even Know Your Name
Nick Schrock, founder of Dagster Labs, discusses the challenges of building developer tools, open-source versus commercial strategies, and the impact of AI on developer-stakeholder relationships in an interview with Jun and Frost.
6 Aug 2025
Beyond ROI: Driving Breakthrough Growth with Otter.ai’s Darius Contractor
Chief Growth Officer Darius Contractor discusses value-driven growth at Otter.ai, revealing how user insights can drive product development and generate significant revenue, in this interview with Jun and Frost.
16 Jul 2025
The Unlikely Journey of a Tech Exec Turned Movie Producer – And the Rise of AI in Storytelling
Matt Rodriguez, indie film producer, discusses his career shift from tech executive to filmmaker with hosts Jun and Frost, examining AI's impact on storytelling and the entertainment industry in this interview.
13 Jun 2025
Geo-Targeted Growth: Expanding Good Eggs with ROI with Sipra
Sipra, former Head of Performance Marketing at Good Eggs, reveals the strategies for successful geo-targeted expansion and aligning marketing with operations, in an interview with Jun and Frost.
22 May 2025
The Real Reason Your App Ratings Suck (and How to Fix Them)
Robi Ganguly, founder of Apptentive (successfully sold to private equity acquired after raising only $18M), shares the hard truths behind app ratings, why NPS has become a lazy metric, and how brands like Starbucks and Nordstrom quietly turned passive users into raving fans. We unpack what actually works when trying to understand customer satisfaction — and why the next era of user feedback will be driven by AI and moments of truth, not long surveys.
1 May 2025
The Tariff Shock – What Smart E-Commerce Players Must Do Now
In this episode, Frost and Jun sit down with Zoil, former head of cross-border inventory at Wish, to unpack lessons from the last U.S.-China tariff war—and why this time, the challenges are even greater. Zoil shares firsthand experiences navigating sudden tariff hikes, shifting supply chains, and adapting to rapidly changing trade policies.
We dive into what’s different about today’s environment, from global tariffs to the end of the $800 de minimis exemption, and why traditional “move manufacturing elsewhere” strategies are no longer enough. You’ll learn how e-commerce players, manufacturers, and brands can adapt, what pitfalls to avoid, and why staying flexible may be your greatest advantage.
Whether you’re running a direct-to-consumer shop, sourcing overseas, or simply trying to survive the next wave of global trade turbulence, this episode offers hard-earned insights from someone who’s been through the fire before—and has battle-tested advice for what’s coming next.
16 Apr 2025
When the Right Users Aren’t the Paying Ones – A Startup’s Hardest Lesson
Top-tier users don’t always mean paying customers. In this episode, we explore one of the toughest lessons in building a startup: what happens when your product gains traction with industry giants—but fails to convert that traction into revenue.Leo Anthias, founder of Data Pane, shares how he grew adoption with teams at Nvidia, Amazon, and more—only to hit a monetization wall. We dive into what went wrong, what he’d do differently, and how to balance growth with revenue in the real world.You’ll learn how to stand out in a crowded market, grow organically without paid channels, and navigate the tricky gap between users who love your product and those willing to pay for it. Whether you're building something new or scaling fast, this episode offers hard-earned insights every founder should hear.
2 Apr 2025
Free Trials, Real Damage – When Smart Customers Outsmart Dumb Promotions
Promotions can drive growth—or drain your margins. In this episode, we unpack how to design promotions that scale using data, not guesswork. Learn how to stay competitive in a crowded market without attracting deal-seekers who churn. We’ll cover strategies to segment high-value users, track promotion impact accurately, and avoid the common traps that make discounts look good on paper but bad on your bottom line. Whether you're running flash sales, free trials, or referral programs, this episode will help you build promos that fuel sustainable growth—not just short-term spikes.
18 Mar 2025
The Dark Side of Virality – AI-Generated Content and Black Market Advertising
What if the viral stories flooding your feed weren’t real? In this episode, Frost and Jun uncover the hidden world of AI-generated content farms—where agencies run thousands of fake accounts, crafting dramatic stories to drive engagement and sell ads at a fraction of the cost. Is this a brilliant marketing hack or a dangerous game that could erode trust in digital advertising? Join us as we explore how brands are tempted by these underground tactics, why platforms are scrambling to deal with them, and what this means for the future of social media marketing.
7 Mar 2025
Measuring Success in the AI Era – Rethinking ROI and Attribution
What does ROI really mean in the age of AI-driven marketing?
As attribution models evolve, platforms promise smarter ad optimization—but does that mean we should trust them blindly?
In this episode, we dive into the shifting landscape of digital advertising, how AI is reshaping attribution, and why defining success remains an art, not a science. Join Frost and Jun as they explore the challenges of measuring ROI, the impact of AI on marketing decisions, and the essential skills marketers need to stay ahead.
#AIMarketing #ROI #DigitalAdvertising #MarketingAttribution #GrowthMarketing #ArtificialIntelligence
25 Feb 2025
Does Your Follower Count Matter? - TikTok's Recommendation Algorithm
If I had 100 people watch my video in the first 10 seconds after posting on social media, would it work?
On platforms like TikTok, does my follower count matter?
#AIMarketing #Ecommerce #DigitalMarketing #TikTok #TikTokMarketing
Who has been a guest on Beyond Algorithms
Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.
Nick Schrock
Darius Contractor
Matt Rodriguez
Sipra
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
YouTube views
14,341
Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025
Apple Podcasts (US)
5.0 / 5
15 ratings
Spotify
5.0 / 5
5 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 38 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
27
Social presence
0
YouTube
72
Engagement
51
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