Overworked, under-resourced, juggling complex legal challenges? If this sounds familiar, Beyond The Fine Print is the podcast for you.
Managing high-stakes decisions on tight deadlines leads to stress and burnout, and keeping up with what’s coming next in law and the world of tech can feel like a full-time job in itself.
Beyond The Fine Print cuts through the noise, delivering digestible insights on legal trends and developments in tech while breaking through the jargon.
I’m your host, Rory O’Keeffe and each episode I’ll be bringing you a conversation with a thought leader in the space.
This is the tech law podcast designed for in-house legal counsel in tech and commercial sectors, bringing you clarity on UK and European regulations, helping you feel more informed, effective and just a bit less stressed.
This isn’t a legal seminar. If you want to gain real value without falling asleep, subscribe to Beyond The Fine Print on your favourite podcast platform now.
Beyond The Fine Print ® 2024.
He Quit A Top Legal Career To Go In-House: What Lawyers Get Wrong About Success with Sunil Bashal
The traditional legal career path is like an escalator. Everyone knows where it’s going, and if you follow the rules, you’ll eventually reach the top.
But what happens when you reach the top, look around and realise it's not actually where you want to be?
In this episode, I'm joined by Sunil Bashal, who qualified at 24 and joined a specialist antitrust team at one of the world's largest law firms. On paper, he'd landed exactly where many aspiring lawyers dream of being. But after getting an inside look, Sunil made an early decision to step away and move to an in-house role, while building a business on the side.
We discuss what success really looks like in the legal profession and why many lawyers are increasingly questioning the traditional career ladder.
We also explore the disappearing entry-level roles, and the skills young lawyers should be building now, as well as what it takes for a high-performer to make a career change and build something of their own on the side.
If you ever find yourself questioning whether or not you’re heading in the right direction, this is for you.
Covered in this episode:
Why Sunil stepped away from a top legal firm to go in-house.
The realities of moving from private practice to an in-house role.
What success really means in the legal profession.
Why talented lawyers are questioning the traditional career path.
What in-house legal leaders should look for when hiring junior lawyers.
The two skills junior lawyers should develop to future-proof their careers.
The real cause of the disappearance of entry-level legal work.
Balancing high performance and burnout.
Why fitness and personal wellbeing can't be an afterthought.
Building a business and personal brand alongside a full-time legal career.
If you got value from this episode of Beyond The Fine Print, subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so you don’t miss the next one.
LEARN MORE
RMOK Legal- https://www.rmoklegal.com/ (https://www.rmoklegal.com/)
CONNECT
Sunil Bashal on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunil-bashal-a17509170/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunil-bashal-a17509170/)
Rory O’Keeffe on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryokeeffe/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryokeeffe/)
LISTEN
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIj9v3yCsj5XNBbrS0byC?si=90ced509f70b4a35 ( https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIj9v3yCsj5XNBbrS0byC?si=90ced509f70b4a35)
Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-fine-print/id1826498926 (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-fine-print/id1826498926)
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheFinePrint/ (https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheFinePrint/)
30 Jul 2026
Your Best Years As A Lawyer Aren’t Behind You (If You Do THIS) with Dr. Mark Vincent
Do you ever feel like your best professional years are behind you?
Like you’re being slowly filed away along with yesterday’s news, as organisations furiously “restructure” in the name of doing more with fewer people?
Many experienced legal professionals are finding themselves in this position and asking the same question - what happens when the role you've built your career around starts to change?
In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Mark Vincent – organisational practitioner, author of The Maestro Effect and advisor to senior leaders for more than 35 years. Mark has spent his career helping professionals navigate what he calls the Third Turn: the point where success is no longer about doing the work yourself, but about orchestrating and creating value in new ways.
But not all legal professionals manage to find their way to the Third Turn, and because of this, struggle to stay relevant and fulfilled.
In this conversation, we explore why so many professionals wait until change is forced upon them before reinventing themselves and why the skills that make us most human may become our greatest advantage.
Whether you're facing redundancy or simply wondering what comes next after decades of following a clear path, this will give you a new perspective on building the next chapter of your career.
Covered in this episode:
The Three Turns of a successful legal career.
Why so many professionals miss the transition to the Third Turn.
How to respond when your role starts to become redundant.
Moving from an operator role to an orchestrator role.
The human qualities that AI can't replicate.
How experienced professionals can stay indispensable in an AI-driven world.
Working through the grieving process of leaving a career behind.
Why humour and humanity create better business relationships.
And more…
If you got value from this episode of Beyond The Fine Print, subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so you don’t miss the next one.
LEARN MORE
The Maestro Effect (book) - https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Maestro_Effect.html?id=Cyfb0QEACAAJ (https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Maestro_Effect.html?id=Cyfb0QEACAAJ)
RMOK Legal- https://www.rmoklegal.com/ (https://www.rmoklegal.com/)
CONNECT
Dr. Mark Vincent on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklvincent/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklvincent/)
Rory O’Keeffe on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryokeeffe/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryokeeffe/)
LISTEN
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIj9v3yCsj5XNBbrS0byC?si=90ced509f70b4a35 (https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIj9v3yCsj5XNBbrS0byC?si=90ced509f70b4a35)
Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-fine-print/id1826498926 (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-fine-print/id1826498926)
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheFinePrint/ (https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheFinePrint/)
18 Jun 2026
A Lawyer’s Guide To Building A Successful Legal Tech Company with Wanne Pemmelaar
Some problems seem too boring to solve.
Data retention is one of them.
And Wanne Pemmelaar noticed this when he was tasked with reading every data protection rule across nearly 100 countries. A task which rapidly drifted away from its budget.
In this episode, I'm joined by Wanne Pemmelaar, CEO and Founder of filerskeepers, data protection lawyer, legal tech entrepreneur, and CEO and Co-Founder of Lawstronaut.
What started as a legal challenge for Wanne, has now grown into a company that serves more than 3000 organisations worldwide, by ensuring they’re up to date with the latest data retention rules.
But this conversation isn't all about retention schedules.
It's about spotting opportunities where everyone else sees admin. It's about building trust in legal tech and understanding why some legal tech products succeed while others fail. And it’s about the lessons Wanne learned turning a spreadsheet and an idea into a global legal tech business.
Covered in this episode:
Uncovering the legal challenges that are ripe for a more substantial solution.
Why data retention is far more important than most organisations realise.
The three biggest retention problems companies face.
How Wanne built trust in a platform covering jurisdictions worldwide.
The journey from lawyer to legal tech founder.
Why some legal tech products succeed while others fail.
How AI is doing what GDPR was supposed to do.
Lessons for lawyers considering entrepreneurship.
And more…
If you got value from this episode of Beyond The Fine Print, subscribe on your favourite podcast platform so you don’t miss the next one.
LEARN MORE
filerskeepers - https://www.filerskeepers.co/ (https://www.filerskeepers.co/)
RMOK Legal - https://www.rmoklegal.com/ (https://www.rmoklegal.com/)
CONNECT
Wanne Pemmelaar on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wannepemmelaar/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/wannepemmelaar/)
Rory O’Keeffe on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryokeeffe/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryokeeffe/)
LISTEN
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIj9v3yCsj5XNBbrS0byC?si=90ced509f70b4a35 (https://open.spotify.com/show/1gIj9v3yCsj5XNBbrS0byC?si=90ced509f70b4a35)
Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-fine-print/id1826498926 (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-fine-print/id1826498926)
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheFinePrint/ (https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheFinePrint/)
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