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This podcast is available on 4 platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. You can also use the RSS feed directly.

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Cheers & Tiers: Design Leadership Tales Retold

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by Chapter 2

5.0(8 reviews)

31 episodes

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Cheers & Tiers welcomes you into a circle of design leaders whose bonds were forged during iconic AIGA design leadership retreats and conferences. These gatherings were more than just strategic sessions with the nation’s chapter leaders—they were moments of shared growth, laughter, and camaraderie that shaped careers and lives, blending organizational development with celebratory toasts and even the occasional human pyramid. Fellow design leaders Erik and Rachel as they reconnect with friends about shared experiences, memorable lessons, and transformative moments gleaned that defined this extraordinary group. Join us as we honor the relationships and memories that continue to shape design and leadership today.

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Recent Episodes

April 8, 2026

030: Terry Marks & Brien Thompson of AIGA Seattle

Terry Marks and Brien Thompson have been fixtures in Seattle’s design community for decades, though they’ve never served on the AIGA board at the same time. They take turns. Terry got pulled in by Jesse Doquillo despite not even being a member yet, and Brien accidentally launched his recruiting career at a Vegas conference after Terry forged him a badge to get into the parties.This is a conversation about how relationships trump resumes, why Terry’s face ended up on the AOL homepage for impotence when he was 30, and what it means to build community when applying to 14 jobs gets you exactly one response. Also: how Brien built an entire staffing firm on AIGA connections, and why the answer to “are you busy?” is always the wrong question.Key Takeaways <ul><li>Relationships are the lingua franca of everything: Jobs, clients, careers—all of it comes down to who knows you and how much they care.</li><li>AIGA was the only channel before online: National conferences and leadership retreats were how you met people and built your network across the country.</li><li>Forge ahead (literally): Sometimes getting someone into the parties requires a trip to Kinko’s and some creative Photoshop work.</li><li>Imposter syndrome is universal: Even self-taught designers who end up speaking across the country started out thinking they didn't belong.</li><li>Volunteering is networking: If you’re looking for work, volunteer at events—you'll meet people and get in free.</li><li>The job market is brutal, but it’s not you: Applying to hundreds of jobs with no response isn’t about your portfolio, it’s about the market.</li></ul>Key Moments in This Episode 06:00 – The forged badge story: How Terry got Brien into Vegas AIGA parties via Kinko’s and Photoshop 10:00 – Meeting Michael Bierut with laryngitis: When Terry couldn’t talk and didn’t recognize one of the Michaels 14:00 – Taking turns on the board: How Terry and Brien have never served at the same time, and why that might have saved Terry’s marriage 22:00 – Erik and Brien’s origin story: How Brien’s dad—a pastor in Shelton—connected them 29:00 – Terry’s Photodisc fame: How a $40 photo shoot led to his face appearing on everything from Apple to AOL 33:00 – Relationships as business model: How Brien built Haystack Creative entirely on AIGA connections 42:00 – Solving the award book crisis: How Terry got 10,000 copies of a 350-page book printed when the deal fell through 46:00 – The job search black hole: Applying to 14 jobs, getting one “not filling this position” response, and the futility of AI-driven hiring 52:00 – How to actually get a job: Skip the portal, build relationships, find a recruiting firm, get face-to-face timeAbout Our Guests Terry Marks is principal at TMarks Design, where he builds living brand systems that help teams move faster. A self-taught designer who co-founded Seattle's LINK program, he got his start in AIGA without even being a member—recruited by Jesse Doquillo to be the LINK liaison. He’s spoken across the country, appeared on more stock photography than he’d like to remember, and is currently back on the AIGA Seattle board.Brien Thompson is founder of Haystack Creative, a recruitment and development expert specializing in design, UX, product, marketing, and creative industries. He’s been a connector in the Seattle design community for decades, serving on the AIGA Seattle Board as Sponsorship Director from 2002-2009. His career started accidentally—attending a Vegas AIGA conference with a forged badge, and discovering that relationship-based recruiting was his calling. He’s never served on the board at the same time as Terry—they take turns.FeaturingGuest Terry Marks, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-marks-91b1b51/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Guest Brien Thompson, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/brienthompson/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Host Erik Cargill, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikcargill/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Host Rachel Elnar, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelnar/">connect on LinkedIn</a> Support the Show<ul><li>Theme music: Loose Ends by <a href="https://silvershipsplasticoceans.bandcamp.com/">Silver Ships Plastic Oceans</a></li><li>Produced by <a href="https://chapter2.media/cheers">Chapter 2 Media</a></li><li>Subscribe to the<a href="https://mail.chapter2.media/"> Together by Design newsletter</a> for more community-building and podcast episode updates</li></ul> Sponsored by: Able Made, The Original Off Pitch Soccer Style: <a href="https://ablemadeshop.com/">shop now</a> Sponsored by: Draplin Design Company, <a href="https://www.draplin.com/">check us out!</a> Sponsored by: The People's Graphic Design Archive: <a href="https://peoplesgdarchive.org/">browse, contribute, and research</a>

March 25, 2026

029: Amy Jo Levine & MaeLin Levine of AIGA San Diego Tijuana

Amy Jo and MaeLin Levine have been running Visual Asylum together since 1987—and spending nearly as long proving that fearlessness is a San Diego AIGA tradition. In the early days, the chapter had $500 in the bank. A board member named Guy said: take money off the table and dream big. The answer became Y Conference, which ran for 26 years and inspired chapters across the country to launch their own events.This is a conversation about framing Soviet posters when the USSR fell, following Bennett on an epic Toronto restaurant walk where people dropped like flies, and why Terry Marks couldn’t get a date. It’s about saving a chapter post-COVID with one email (not a single person said no), winning a World Design Capital bid during a pandemic, and the direct line from AIGA leadership to starting charter schools. Also: why you should never, ever suggest auctioning lawn chairs at a board meeting.Key Takeaways<ul><li>Fearlessness becomes culture: When your chapter starts by importing Soviet posters during the fall of the USSR, you set a precedent for taking on big challenges.</li><li>Remove money from the equation first: The Y Conference was born when someone said “take money off the table—what would you want to do?”</li><li>Sell sponsorships to cover costs, sell tickets for profit: This funding model sustained Y Conference for 26 years.</li><li>Leadership retreats create lifelong bonds: AIGA friendships lead to weddings, godparenthoods, and collaborations that last decades.</li><li>What you give comes back tenfold: Ron Muriello's advice proved true—AIGA leadership builds confidence and opens doors you never imagined.</li><li>Chapters need to pass the torch: The generation that built these programs is getting tired of schlepping water bottles—new leaders need to step up.</li></ul>Key Moments in This Episode 03:20 – Framing Soviet posters: How MaeLin got recruited to work shoulder-to-shoulder with San Diego’s design who’s who06:00 – The posters that wouldn't leave: When the Soviet Union fell, there was nowhere to send them back to—so the chapter kept them for 25 years14:00 – Bennett’s epic restaurant walk: When 40 people started following Bennett in Toronto and only 6 made it to the end17:00 – Terry Marks and the STD billboards: Why Seattle’s gorilla suit guy couldn’t figure out why no one would date him19:00 – That one intimidating retreat: When MaeLin walked into a room with all the Michaels and Jennifers—and felt like the only normal person there21:00 – Following Jesse and Terry to start LINK: How a leadership retreat conversation led to 30+ years of San Diego’s mentorship program24:00 – The backyard that birthed Y Conference: Guy’s challenge to dream big when the chapter only had $500 in the bank26:00 – We are NOT auctioning lawn chairs: MaeLin’s breaking point that redirected the chapter’s energy31:00 – 26 years of Y Conference: How San Diego became the first chapter outside New York to run a major design conference32:00 – The email that saved the chapter: When MaeLin asked former board members to help save AIGA post-COVID, not one person said no35:00 – World Design Capital bid: How AIGA experience gave MaeLin the confidence to chair a world-class designation—during a pandemic45:00 – What AIGA gave back: From Harvard Business School programs to starting charter schools—the direct line from leadership to life-changing opportunitiesAbout Our GuestsAmy Jo Levine is co-founder of Visual Asylum, past president of AIGA San Diego-Tijuana, and former Y Conference chair. A typography expert who teaches advanced typography and wayfinding, she spent 17 years on the AIGA board—about 15 of which involved moving, reinstalling, or shipping those Soviet posters. She specializes in environmental design and making spaces actually communicate with people.MaeLin Levine is co-founder of Visual Asylum, an AIGA Fellow, and incoming President’s Council Chair for AIGA National. She helped San Diego Tijuana win the World Design Capital 2024 designation, co-founded the Y Conference, and started Urban Discovery Academy, a K-8 charter school in San Diego. She’s been proving that designers can lead anything since she walked into a room to frame Soviet posters in 1987. FeaturingGuest Amy Jo Levine, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/alevine4/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Guest MaeLin Levine, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/maelinlevine/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Host Erik Cargill, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikcargill/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Host Rachel Elnar, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelnar/">connect on LinkedIn</a> Support the Show<ul><li>Theme music: Loose Ends by <a href="https://silvershipsplasticoceans.bandcamp.com/">Silver Ships Plastic Oceans</a></li><li>Produced by <a href="https://chapter2.media/cheers">Chapter 2 Media</a></li><li>Subscribe to the<a href="https://mail.chapter2.media/"> Together by Design newsletter</a> for more community-building and podcast episode updates</li></ul> Sponsored by: Able Made, The Original Off Pitch Soccer Style: <a href="https://ablemadeshop.com/">shop now</a> Sponsored by: Draplin Design Company, <a href="https://www.draplin.com/">check us out!</a> Sponsored by: The People's Graphic Design Archive: <a href="https://peoplesgdarchive.org/">browse, contribute, and research</a>

March 3, 2026

028: Rebecca Mushtare & Doug Bartow of AIGA Upstate New York

Rebecca Mushtare and Doug Bartow had a problem: how do you build design community across 5,000 square miles of upstate New York? The answer was equal parts strategic and scrappy—portfolio reviews in multiple cities, educator dialogues, and at one point, nine simultaneous “Cocktails for Creatives” meetups happening across the state on a Tuesday night.In 2016, they traveled to Raleigh expecting to feel behind. Instead, they found chapters in Colorado facing the exact same challenges. This is a conversation about building hubs when you can’t be in one place, using Zoom before it was cool, and why that random student email deserves a reply. Also: the story of a very crowded glass room that Rebecca may or may not remember.Key Takeaways<ul><li>Geographic challenges are universal: Upstate chapters aren’t behind—they’re dealing with the same hub-building problems as other large-state chapters.</li><li>Networking compounds over time: The person you meet at a portfolio review might help you land a job a decade later.</li><li>Virtual events were necessary before they were normal: Upstate New York was doing multi-location FaceTime meetups years before COVID made it standard.</li><li>Faculty relationships sustain chapters: Students come and go, but faculty stay—and they bring new students into the community year after year.</li><li>AI is a tool, not a designer: Use it for spreadsheets and color palettes, not for the creative work that makes you human.</li><li>Accessibility isn’t optional anymore: WCAG compliance deadlines are real, and design thinking can lead the way.</li></ul>Key Moments in This Episode 07:40 – Nine cocktails, simultaneously: How upstate New York activated hubs across Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Albany, and beyond 09:30 – The human pyramid moment: When Doug realized this retreat was going to push him way outside his comfort zone 12:20 – “We’re not that bad”: Meeting other geographic chapters at Raleigh and realizing upstate wasn’t behind after all 16:45 – Staying connected through students: Why recruiting students into chapter roles keeps the community alive 20:10 – The Get Out the Vote posters: How a Raleigh conversation led to exhibitions at the Women’s Rights National Historic Park 24:40 – AI isn’t going to replace designers: It’s CorelDRAW all over again—a tool, not a threat 27:00 – Designing for accessibility: Why WCAG deadlines matter and how color-blind designers use AI for palettes 30:50 – Paying it forward: Why answering that random LinkedIn message matters more than you thinkAbout Our GuestsRebecca Mushtare is Deputy Dean of Graduate Studies and Professor of Interaction Design at SUNY Oswego, specializing in accessibility and data visualization. As Education Director for AIGA Upstate New York, she organized student conferences, educator dialogues, and portfolio reviews across the state.Doug Bartow is Design Director for the New York State Design System at NYS Office of Information Technology Services. He served as President of AIGA Upstate New York and has been running portfolio reviews in the Albany area for 17 years—including helping coordinate nine simultaneous cocktail meetups across New York State.FeaturingGuest Rebecca Mushtare, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/cyberthread/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Guest Doug Bartow, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougbartow/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Host Erik Cargill, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikcargill/">connect on LinkedIn</a>Host Rachel Elnar, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelnar/">connect on LinkedIn</a> Support the Show<ul><li>Theme music: Loose Ends by <a href="https://silvershipsplasticoceans.bandcamp.com/">Silver Ships Plastic Oceans</a></li><li>Produced by <a href="https://chapter2.media/cheers">Chapter 2 Media</a></li><li>Subscribe to the<a href="https://mail.chapter2.media/"> Together by Design newsletter</a> for more community-building and podcast episode updates</li></ul> Sponsored by: Able Made, The Original Off Pitch Soccer Style: <a href="https://ablemadeshop.com/">shop now</a> Sponsored by: Draplin Design Company, <a href="https://www.draplin.com/">check us out!</a> Sponsored by: The People's Graphic Design Archive: <a href="https://peoplesgdarchive.org/">browse, contribute, and research</a>

31 total episodes available

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What is Cheers & Tiers: Design Leadership Tales Retold?: Cheers & Tiers welcomes you into a circle of design leaders whose bonds were forged during iconic AIGA design leadership retreats and conferences. These gatherings were more than just strategic sessions with the nation’s chapter leaders—they were moments of shared growth, laughter, and camaraderie that shaped careers and lives, blending organizational development with celebratory toasts and even the occasional human pyramid.

Fellow design leaders Erik and Rachel as they reconnect with friends about shared experiences, memorable lessons, and transformative moments gleaned that defined this extraordinary group. Join us as we honor the relationships and memories that continue to shape design and leadership today.
How often does this podcast release new episodes?: This podcast updates daily.
Where can I listen to this podcast?: This podcast is available on 4 platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. You can also use the RSS feed directly.
Does this podcast accept guests?: No, this podcast does not typically feature guests.

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