Come & Grow Podcast

About Come & Grow Podcast

Come & Grow Podcast is brought to you by friends Joy Star Bright & Lauren Barr where we discuss values, learnings, life and business. comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast)

Publisher

Conversations on Values, Business & Becoming

Category

business · education

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

18 May 2026

Latest episode

20 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

11 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   20 Oct 2026

   How to Be Present With Yourself, Not Just Others

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: * Joy’s donation page is almost done, and she’s noticing why it’s been so hard to hit publish after growing up as a missionary kid living on other people’s donations. Her journaling workshop has a name now, too: The Cartography of Calling, Tuesday, October 27 at noon, virtual * Lauren’s Seeking Space at Free the Gifts happened on a rainy mountain in a small room with five or six women. Alone time, together. Then a few days of recovering from all that peopling * This week’s value: presence. Being here, with other people and with yourself * Why Lauren can be fully present with someone else but struggles alone, and how an expected package can hijack a whole afternoon * Quick ways back: tapping, a cup of Tension Tamer instead of a Diet Coke, thumb-to-finger breathing, and the five senses * Joy’s four Ns from her therapist: notice, name, normalize, nurture. Plus the frozen mandarin trick * Choosing your life instead of running on default, thrift blindness, and the window of tolerance * Co-regulation, and why we sometimes try to fix other people so we can feel okay * What they’re learning: Lauren trades overwhelm for overload and names digital intrusion. Joy speaks up kindly in class about faith, psychology, and a book called Glittering Vices * What’s coming up: Ben turns 50, the Ohio buddies come to town, and there’s a Brunswick stew party with a bluegrass band. Plus a marigold front door. Joy heads to Myrtle Beach to see her chosen brother Tyson in Halloween City ✍️ Prompts for this week: Practice the four Ns once this week. Notice what's happening in your body, name it, normalize it with kind words, and ask what you actually need. Then sit with this: Am I present right now? What's pulling me away? And if you've been living on autopilot, ask yourself whether you want to keep living this way, and whether there's anything you're avoiding that's keeping you there. LET US KNOW We'd love to hear from you. DM us, drop a comment, or send a voice note on Instagram (Joy (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) or Lauren (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) or both!) and tell us which of the four Ns you tried, or what pulls you out of the present (or leave a comment on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKy3CbgmdMXfhgfaCC2s9Cg) or here on Substack). We would love to hear from you. Resources and Links Mentioned: * The Cartography of Calling, Joy’s virtual journaling workshop (Tuesday, October 27 at noon): COMING SOON! * Lauren’s The Seeking Space: https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space (https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space) * Renovaré Institute (Joy’s certification program): https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute) * The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron: https://juliacameronlive.com/book/the-artists-way-a-spiritual-path-to-higher-creativity/ (https://juliacameronlive.com/book/the-artists-way-a-spiritual-path-to-higher-creativity/) * Slow Productivity by Cal Newport: https://calnewport.com/slow-productivity/ (https://calnewport.com/slow-productivity/) * Glittering Vices by Rebecca Konyndyk DeYoung: https://renovare.org/books/glittering-vices (https://renovare.org/books/glittering-vices) Connect with us: 🐚 Joy Star Bright / Meridian Soul Care * Website: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) 🪄 Lauren Barr / The Smarter Creative * Website: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) * YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) The Conversation The Fall and Winter Couch LAUREN: Hi, Joy. JOY: Hi, Lauren. LAUREN: How are you today? JOY: I’m good. LAUREN: We’re on an actual different couch of yours. It’s the same couch, but different. JOY: Many yellow couches. There’s many. LAUREN: If you’re listening, you have no idea what we’re saying. But if you’re watching, we’re coming from a different couch because the sun has shifted where it is in the sky. The backlight at the couch we were on before was so bright you couldn’t really see us. And I just want to say, we’ve been filming this for so long that we now have a fall and winter couch. JOY: We have a fall and winter couch. How amazing. We have the summer couch, and we have the fall and winter couch. LAUREN: Good, ‘cause we film at the exact same time every week. JOY: On Fridays. I love it. It’s spacious. I like this side of the studio. And we get that view, too. LAUREN: We get to see out to all the beauty. JOY: Well, welcome to the podcast. LAUREN: Welcome to Come and Grow. JOY: Welcome to Come and Grow. We’re so glad to have you, and to know that you’re here with us in this conversation. Lauren and I are really excited about today. Just feeling really joyful and open about what we’re going to talk about. It’s going to be really good. LAUREN: We’ve been looking forward to this conversation ever since we filmed episode 10. But before we get there, I’d love a little catch-up. The last time we spoke, you were working on journaling workshops and the donation page for scholarships for your clients, which is so amazing. A Donation Page and a Missionary Kid’s Resistance JOY: Yes. And I am still working on both of those things. And I have somehow acquired more pro bono clients, and I’m just like, “Okay, this is a situation.” It’s been bringing up some things for me. I need to either change my pricing model or do something different. There’s more to it than that. But I’ve also noticed there’s some resistance in putting out a donation page. I was going to tell you about this earlier, but this is fine here. I think the struggle of growing up under the donations of other people as a missionary kid makes it hard to just hit publish and share, “Do you want to donate to this?” I think that’s why I’ve been sitting on it for so long. It’s almost finished, and I am going to do it. But it’s really interesting to pay attention to. The Cartography of Calling JOY: The other thing I’m working on is this journaling workshop, which I’m really excited about. I’ve been praying about it for a while now and asking the Lord about direction. I really want to create a space for people to work through their calling, where they want to go, and gain some clarity. It’ll be similar to the Jesus as My CEO stuff we used to do, but with some prompts, a little more formatted than just doing your own thing. The name I came up with is the Cartography of Calling. I’m still working on it. LAUREN: Aw. JOY: I’m hosting it Tuesday, October 27th, at noon. A lunchtime workshop. LAUREN: Love. We’ll have the link to sign up in the show notes, ‘cause it’s virtual. JOY: It’s virtual. The first people who’ll know about it are my email list, so I’ll send that out on Monday, and when this drops, we’ll put it here too. I’m excited. We’ll see how it goes. LAUREN: I feel like you used to host workshops like this often. Or maybe it was inside the spaces you led. JOY: No, I did it a lot before the Renovaré Institute, before I was in the program. It’s really difficult for me to manage both, and all of the reading, which I’ll tell you about when we get to learning. There’s a lot of reading and a lot of extra things that take up my mental space. That room in my mind used to be for creating workshops. Now it’s Renovaré stuff. But once I’m done with the program, I’m sure I’ll be doing more. I love doing workshops. It gives me so much joy. We’ve talked about this before, but the energy I get from a workshop is something else. I finish and I’m just buzzing. LAUREN: I’m so glad you found a corner of the room to share with others. JOY: I’m still going to do it. I’m like, “I’m still doing this, even while I’m in my program.” Alone Time, Together JOY: Which reminds me, you did a workshop over the weekend at Free the Gifts. That’s where we left off with you. I’m curious how it went. LAUREN: Free the Gifts weekend was awesome. I did the Seeking Space on Saturday, which was not guided. JOY: I feel like it was guided enough. It was exactly what I needed. I was in her group, of course. LAUREN: It was so beautiful. I actually grabbed one of the women who was journaling by herself in the other room and said, “You need to come join us. Just come. This is what we’re doing. We’re having alone time, but together.” You can share what you’re processing with the Lord and just be held by others. I feel more connected to all the women who were in that group. It was so lovely not to have a rigid structure. Just very open. And it was small. I think there were five or six of us in that room. JOY: It was such a sweet time. LAUREN: I was nervous, because when I had envisioned it, I pictured us departing from the room. But that day up the mountain was cold and rainy. Non-stop rain. There was nothing sheltered, no place to sit outside at all. So I prayed when we got going. “Lord, may we not hear the people on the other side of this door. May it just work. Can we each find our own spot?” It was a small room, and we were so close to one another. That can be distracting when you’re on top of somebody and you’re in this deep, almost meditative space. JOY: It’s true. We do it for Selah on Monday nights, though, and we’re pretty close to each other there. But I think the understanding is, if we’re in library mode, don’t talk to me. It can be distracting, especially when you’re wearing parachute pants. My parachute pants were really loud that one night. I kept trying to get up, and I’m like, “I need to stop walking around. This is distracting.” LAUREN: Well, I come prepared. I bring my noise-canceling headphones. JOY: You come with all your gear. I love that. LAUREN: My inner Boy Scout is always prepared. But it was a good time. I’m glad you were in the little one I did. JOY: It was exactly what I needed. It was so good. LAUREN: It was good to be back, too. It took me days to settle down from being around that many people. And I shared a cabin with seven strangers. JOY: The adrenaline crash is real. LAUREN: Oh my goodness gracious. But it’s okay. I didn’t skip our Monday group. I still went, even though I was like, “I don’t know if I can people right now.” JOY: You did it. And then again on Wednesday night. You’re doing it. On Presence LAUREN: So today, the value we’re going to talk about, I don’t quite know how to define it. I have it as the value of time, or presence. The here and the now, almost. JOY: I would say it’s the value of presence, and we’re going to go in some different directions with it. We have different thoughts on what it means to us. But I think it’s that awareness of the present moment. Not letting time slip away, not wasting time, but just being intentional with the time that we have. Not living in the past, not living in the future. LAUREN: Both physically and mentally. Being in this moment. JOY: And the other thought we had was about noticing when someone is present with us, or even our own presence. How do we know when we’re being present? There are lots of different angles. LAUREN: Because there’s being present with others, like how you give them your attention. But then there’s also your own self, your day, your choices. JOY: On your own. LAUREN: On your own. You have to be present to yourself. And they’re very different. JOY: What would you say is the difference between those two? That’s a great starting point. Present With Others, Present With Yourself LAUREN: For me, I can be present with other people really well, because that’s what’s expected of me. I’m here right now. I’m focused on you. I never have my phone out when I’m with other people. I’m doing my best not to come up with answers before they finish speaking. That’s a learned thing. To not be in my own head about what I’m going to say next, but just be fully here. I’m not perfect at it at all, but I try. JOY: It’s a journey. LAUREN: So I’m really good at being present with somebody else, and it’s very grounding for me. But when I’m by myself, it’s so much harder to be fully present with myself. Because I’m carrying the anxieties of what’s to come, all the things that need to get done, the requests out there that I haven’t responded to. JOY: So it pulls you away. LAUREN: It’s all these mental things spinning that don’t help me be present in the moment, and it derails my days when I’m stuck there. JOY: Totally. Now, are you a ruminator, like on the past? Or once it’s gone, is it gone? LAUREN: Can I be a future ruminator? Not in a dreamy way, but in an “I have to do all of these” way. Not the past, though. Once it’s gone, it’s done. JOY: So rumination is usually replaying. It’s like a tape, replaying in different ways. Anxiety is more future. “This could happen, or this could happen, and I need...” Or running through your list over and over and over. LAUREN: Not trusting my system. Because I have the list written down. It shouldn’t be living in my head. But if I don’t trust where I put it, I hold it. JOY: Would you say it takes up emotional space? I know for me it does. I still have to make a call later today. It’s on the list. I shouldn’t be thinking about it. But it somehow takes up room inside me. The Package Problem LAUREN: Yes. I’ve noticed that even if I’m expecting a package, I can’t be fully present to what I have to do in this moment. I don’t need that package for anything right now. It’s not affecting me. But because I’m anticipating it, I’m on the lookout for it. JOY: That’s wild. And it pulls you away from what’s happening right here and now. LAUREN: It does. And it pulls me out of flow, like getting into a flow state with work, which is very much in the here and now. JOY: Being able to get there is kind of magical. I haven’t been there in a long time. LAUREN: It’s huge. I can get into a flow state pretty quickly as long as I’ve identified the thing I need to work on and I have everything I need for it. But I have to shut everything else out. Does It Have to Be a Fight? JOY: That’s really good. And I wonder, is that always the requirement for staying present, to shut everything else out? Does it always have to be a fight? I’m trying to get into flow, I’m trying to get into flow, and I’m fighting these other things from the past and the future just so I can be present. Or is there a state we can get to where it’s like, I have tools to handle this moment, and if a thought comes up, there doesn’t have to be an “I need this to go away”? We get so caught in “I need this to stop so that I can be present,” or so I can be whatever kind of person we want to be. Whenever I talk to my therapist about this, she says, “Your thoughts are not your fault. They’re just your thoughts. They just come up.” That’s so liberating in one sense. And also, please stop and please go away. You have a thought, and then you have an opinion about the thought. I wonder how helpful it would be to just have tools. I was going to say a fly swatter, but then we’re still getting rid of the fly. Just knowing we have the tools to handle a situation and help us return to the present moment. So I’m curious. What are some tools you use to bring yourself back? Tapping and a Tension Tamer LAUREN: We talked about tapping on a recent episode, how helpful it is. I found myself in an instance today where I was really anxious. I could feel the anxiety in my body, and I had 30 minutes and needed to focus so I could get out of the house and come here. And I was like, “I can’t focus in this heightened anxiety state.” So I pulled up a YouTube video on tapping and followed it for a couple of minutes until the anxiety wasn’t so alive. I’m sure it’s still in my body. But it felt like my nerves were exposed before, and after, they weren’t. JOY: That’s a great way to put it. It calms your nervous system down. LAUREN: I could identify it. “I need to calm my nervous system. My nerves are not okay.” So I did the tapping. I got one task done that I was good to focus on. I made a cup of tea. I’m not bringing a Diet Coke today. That’s also not going to serve my nerves. JOY: Bringing down the caffeine. LAUREN: Get a Tension Tamer up in here. JOY: That’s amazing. LAUREN: And then I was able to be aware of it. Even just noticing it in my body meant I’d been in a calm state before. Because sometimes, when you’re in high anxiety all the time... JOY: Fight or flight. You don’t even notice. LAUREN: So that’s a whole other thing. There’s the short term, how do you get out of it. But then there’s the long term. How do you actually get to a present state... JOY: If you’re always in survival mode. LAUREN: Which is probably a longer conversation. JOY: That’s probably a longer conversation. This is more of a quick fix for your day. LAUREN: How about you, Joy? Do you have any quick tools? The Four Ns JOY: My therapist has been teaching me about the four Ns, which have been really helpful. I’ve been dishing them out to all my clients whenever we talk about this kind of thing. The first one is what you said: notice. The way that translates into action is you notice the symptoms of what’s going on. Say today, when you were in that space, maybe your face felt hot, or you felt a little shaky. LAUREN: My heart was... JOY: Your heart was beating fast. I had a moment yesterday, which I’ll tell you about later, where my vision was actually shaking. Where there’s a line, it was literally shaking. So that was a symptom. Just noticing. Then I’m able to collect everything I’m noticing and name what it is. So the next N is to name it. With this one, I suggest taking the feelings wheel and finding whatever’s closest to what’s going on. Yesterday, it was actual anger. I was feeling quite angry and protective over a conversation we’re having in school. I’ll tell you about that, too. My body was reacting with this protective kind of anger. It felt like a righteous anger. Protective over people who might not be being protected. After you name it, you normalize the feeling. That’s what self-compassion sounds like. You say something like, “It makes sense that you’re angry about this, because of the people you serve. It makes sense, because you’ve seen spiritual trauma happen to people, or spiritual abuse.” Normalizing it by using kind and gentle words over yourself is really helpful. And lastly, the most practical to me, is to nurture. Which is basically what you did with the tapping. So we notice, we name, we normalize, and then we nurture, usually with an action. The question with nurture is, what do I actually need right now? Maybe I need a walk. LAUREN: I really wanted a run. I really wanted to get in my body, but there wasn’t time. JOY: Or sometimes you need a drink of water. A Mandarin in the Freezer JOY: One trick I really love, my therapist taught me. You put a mandarin in the freezer, and tossing it from one hand to the other is a bilateral exercise for your nervous system. Your focus goes to the cold, so it actually pulls some of the energy away from whatever you’re dealing with and into your hands. LAUREN: Interesting. JOY: You could probably do it with something warm, too. But putting it in the freezer and tossing it bilaterally is a really helpful way to nurture your body back to presence. LAUREN: That’s amazing. And I like how tapping, tossing a mandarin, going for a run, it’s all so physical. It’s not in your head. JOY: Now, journaling might be a nurturing thing, too. That’s something I did yesterday, in addition to the other things. I was like, “Oh, I haven’t eaten food in many hours,” so that’s where we started. Journaling can be cathartic, but it’s still connected to the mental. When you’re nurturing, it doesn’t have to make sense. You don’t have to continue the conversation of why did I do this, what happened, why am I so upset. The words can actually stop, and the body can just be ministered to. It can be nurtured. LAUREN: I needed a dance break or something. I want to flail for some reason. JOY: Which would be great. That’s a dance break. Do that. LAUREN: Breathwork, probably. JOY: Breathwork. All of those things are nurture. And they bring us back home. Back Into the Body LAUREN: You know what I find so weird? Getting into the body. I never knew this before, so I’m going to tell you. When you breathe, you can tap your thumb to each of your fingers and take a breath, and you can feel how your breath shifts in your diaphragm. With your thumb and forefinger together, it’s higher up, and by the time you get to the last finger, you can feel it lower in your body. JOY: No way. I’ve never done that. That’s amazing. LAUREN: I can shift my fingers and give my attention to my breath, and it helps bring me back to this moment. JOY: It grounds you. I love that. I’ve got to really try that. LAUREN: They also say to stop and identify each of your senses. Something you hear, something you smell. JOY: The five senses exercise is great. That’s nurture, too. It’s five, four, three, where you start with five things you see. I can’t remember them all. LAUREN: Four things you hear, three things you touch. It just grounds you. For me, I’m often spiraling when I notice something’s awry in my body. So journaling in the moment doesn’t help me, because I keep spiraling. But overall, for staying present, journaling is huge. JOY: Or even journaling after the fact, once your body calms down. What happened? Once you’re regulated, you can put words to it. I think that’s really important to the continuity of our story. What happened, how was I feeling, and opening it up. In the middle of the feels? Not a great time. But once you’ve passed through and you’re regulated again, it’s a really good thing. Morning Pages JOY: You’ve been doing your morning pages again recently? LAUREN: It’s so good. There’s a book, The Artist’s Way, where she talks about morning pages. Three pages of longhand writing. And I finally understood the no-judgment part of it, and I’ve just been writing. It’s been really helpful. JOY: Completely unedited. It’s really liberating. LAUREN: I’ve been reaching for it before I reach for a cup of coffee in the morning. JOY: Oh, wow. LAUREN: I was like, “Okay, that’s wild.” I’m going to grab my journal and bring it to me. And then, “Oh wait. Coffee. Feeding the dog. Responsibilities.” JOY: Other things. I love a good morning page. Sometimes it’s morning pages, sometimes it’s just a morning page. One morning page. I love it. Choosing Your Life LAUREN: With presence and awareness of time, and being present with yourself, there’s such a need to honor where you’re at right now with how you spend your time. I just want to call that out, because we’re all in such different seasons. A young mom versus a retired person versus somebody working in corporate America... JOY: Entrepreneurs. LAUREN: Our days can look so different from one another. And I think it probably goes back to what your calling is, and how you’re called to live your days. But all of that requires you to be present with yourself and your circumstances, to choose how you’re going to live out your days. What projects you’ll work on, what you’re saying no to and yes to, where you’re putting yourself out there and trying new things. For me, presence is also taking hold of my actual life and choosing to live it to its fullest. Because otherwise I can clock into my job and do great work, clock out, sit on the couch, watch TV, go to bed, wake up, and repeat. And I’m not actually living. I’m not saying what I’m doing is wrong. It’s an internal state of what I’m choosing to do. I might still choose to sit on the couch and watch TV, but... JOY: To actually make that choice. LAUREN: Instead of just running on default. The Off Button JOY: That brings us back to the things that pull us out of the present moment. When we started talking about it, we had the past and the future, the things pulling on us. And what you’re talking about is what pulls you out of an intentional choice. Anxiety is where you’re focused on the future, dread. Rumination is the past, or even shame over something that happened. But what you’re describing, and I experience this too, is more of a dissociation, where we just turn it off. We make no decisions and go into some kind of autopilot. That happens to me with shopping, where I’m not actually making choices. There’s literally a thrift blindness thing, where you’re just like, “Oh, yes, yes, yes.” And then you go home and you’re like, “How did...” LAUREN: Why did this even make it into my cart, let alone through the cash register, into my car, and into my home? JOY: Literally. And it’s not that it’s right or wrong, like you just said. The money’s there. It’s okay. But I want to make a choice. I want to intuitively choose before I go in. How much do I want to spend today? LAUREN: What do I actually need in my life? JOY: What do I actually need? Is this a joy run? Which is fine. But what am I actually looking for? Which is why Joy’s on a spending freeze right now. We’re going to leave that right there. LAUREN: The dissociation of life, almost. And I’m sure the numbness can come from anxiety that’s not named. JOY: Well, there’s the window of tolerance. Not to cut you off. The window of tolerance is essentially proportions. Someone might have this much anxiety and they can function. Other people have too much anxiety, or a different measure, and they shut off. There’s actually an off button. When it’s outside your window of tolerance, you turn it off. You’re done. There’s hyperarousal and hypoarousal. If I’m getting this right, and hopefully I am, hyperarousal is when it’s so far outside your window of tolerance that you go into anger, or into fear and anxiety, and you can’t handle it. Hypo is just the off button. Shut down. “I’m done.” Someone asks you a question and you’re like, “I don’t know. I don’t know.” LAUREN: “Do you want to come to dinner next week?” JOY: “I don’t know.” Literally. Both of those are outside what we can tolerate, our emotional window of tolerance. So you’re right. Maybe there’s too much anxiety and I just can’t handle it. Or some other feeling. LAUREN: How do you even... For me, when I’m in that state, I have to get sick of myself and choose to face it. Like, “Okay, I have to do this.” JOY: For me, when my emotions are hijacking me, the things I want to do, I can’t do. The things I’ve scheduled or planned just slip away. So then I’m like, “Okay, if I want to access the energy to be present to my kids, or make a phone call, or see clients and really enjoy that,” which I do love my job, “I have to deal with this. I have to go there.” LAUREN: ‘Cause it’s keeping you from the fullness. JOY: It is. Co-Regulation JOY: I do find that we can help each other. There’s also co-regulation. It happens a lot with babies. I was going to say their nervous system, but I think it’s a different system that’s regulated with their mother. I can’t think of it right now. But we can do it as adults, too. There are actually neurons called mirror neurons. You can just feel it. When someone’s really anxious and they come into the room, you start to tense up. Or someone’s super sad and they hate their life, you can feel that, too. But when someone’s present, and maybe easy in themselves, and there’s room for you in their presence, some part of your body just starts to calm down. That’s how we co-regulate. LAUREN: Or not. Or we co-regulate to the wrong frequency. JOY: That’s right. LAUREN: Which is why we’re told to choose our friends. JOY: My thermostat gets set to your thermostat, and then why do I feel terrible? LAUREN: But then there’s also being present to yourself. If you’re with a friend or somebody who’s not in a calm place, you can see them and be self-reflective, too. If we’re not being judgmental, thinking, “Oh my gosh, she’s got to shake out of this.” JOY: She’s got to get it together. LAUREN: And make a different choice. And trying to fix and control. JOY: Which is just a waste of time. But sometimes we go there in stress responses. We try to fix someone else in order for us to be okay. That’s sometimes why we judge. LAUREN: We’re trying to fix... JOY: “If I could just get you to be okay, then I’ll be okay.” That’s why we do it. LAUREN: It has nothing to do with actually helping the other person. JOY: Oftentimes it doesn’t. When you have a desire to help someone, that’s not the wrong thing. But when you feel desperate, “I really need you to stop, I need you to change right now, you should stop dating this dude, this is a bad decision,” and you feel it in your body and you want to come at them, that’s because you think if they are okay, then you are okay. And then we bring it home. “Oh no, I get to be in charge of me, and they get to be in charge of themselves.” I’m in charge of me. You’re in charge of you. When we stay in our own lane, we actually make better decisions, instead of telling each other what to do. Not My Circus LAUREN: We do. I love the phrase, “Not my circus, not my monkeys.” JOY: It’s such a good one. LAUREN: Sweeping my own side of the street. JOY: That’s exactly right. LAUREN: But also, in community, we can call one another back to stability and to the present moment. Remind one another of regulation. JOY: That’s so good. LAUREN: I love that conversation so much. I feel like we really went through it. JOY: We did. Want to go into learning next? What Lauren Is Learning: Overload, Not Overwhelm LAUREN: My learning feels on theme. And I need the feelings wheel to name anything. JOY: There’s pillows. You can get a pillow and just look at it. Therapists have them all the time. LAUREN: I think I’ve been overwhelmed, which is in the anxiety family. And this week I was listening to a podcast by the guy who wrote Slow Productivity, and he used the term overload. Not overwhelm, overload. Overwhelm is a feeling, but overload is how I got to be overwhelmed. JOY: Right. LAUREN: You can actually see overload on your computer stats. JOY: There’s too much. LAUREN: He also called it the whirlwind, quoting somebody else. You’re caught up in the whirlwind. You’re overloaded by the tasks you have. And he very clearly stated that a lot of this is... I’ve got to get this word right, ‘cause it’s so good. Digital intrusion. JOY: Ooh. LAUREN: Especially for someone like me. I’m an online entrepreneur. I serve all my clients online. JOY: That’s where you work. LAUREN: And when I’ve given my yes, and work’s been really good, I’ve got all these digital intrusions coming at me. They’re overloading me, and I’m caught in this whirlwind. Just having that context helped. All those emails, Basecamp messages, Notion notifications, text messages, Slack messages. They’re coming from everywhere, and it’s overloading me. My brain goes into protection mode. And I’m flat. I can’t dream. I can’t look to the future. I can’t even look ahead to what’s coming. JOY: There’s no space. LAUREN: So having the word overload was so freeing for me this week. JOY: Really liberating. That’s amazing. LAUREN: I wrote about it in my newsletter today. I put a social media post out there. I’ve shared about it so much, because I’m so embracing this idea of overload. And it connects to being in the present moment. That’s what I’m trying to get back to. How do I get out of this overwhelm and this overload, so I can dream and feel expansive and have ideas? Where are they? So part of it is, how do I manage myself in the midst of the overload? And then step two is, how do I actually change my business so I’m not here again in my next busy season? Or is this just the new normal of busy, and something’s got to change? JOY: And how do we change it? LAUREN: Because I’m not operating to my fullness. I’m meeting the tasks. I’m operating to my fullness in the tasks I’m getting done. But me, myself, and who I am in this world, I’m not showing up in fullness. And that’s got to change. I can’t live like that. JOY: 100%. This is not sustainable. LAUREN: So I learned the word overload and was able to apply it to my situation, and it’s been very good. JOY: That is amazing. Just having the right word can sometimes unlock something. LAUREN: And I didn’t like how he dealt with the overload, how to get back to yourself in the midst of it. It was another list. JOY: And you’re like, “No.” LAUREN: I was like, “I do not need another list. Come on.” So that’s when I picked up The Artist’s Way. JOY: I love it. You’re like, “No, I know how to do this. I’m overloaded. I know what to do. I’m going to the source.” LAUREN: I need to nurture my inner artist. I need to get back to creativity in the midst of the overload. Make space for the artist. Because I can’t even figure out how to dream my way out of the overload until I can connect with my inner artist. JOY: That’s exactly right. I love that. What Joy Is Learning: Speaking Up, Kindly LAUREN: How about you, Joy? What have you been learning? JOY: I feel like my confrontation lessons have continued. There were three different conversations this week where I was like, “Oh wow, I have to say something really hard. Oh, I have to do that again. Oh, I have to do that again. Oh, now I have to do it in class in front of all my classmates.” We’re reading a book right now called Glittering Vices. It’s essentially based on the seven deadly sins. So it’s a super fun read. LAUREN: Very light. JOY: Really light. And we’re all just like, “Okay.” I have many beefs with the book, and with how the class is going. But essentially, I gathered up a little bit of anger, a little bit of misunderstanding, and a little bit of humility to say what I’m actually feeling. And also the idea that in my cohort, what I’m learning as we grow together belongs to me, but it also belongs to my classmates. And I feel the same way about them. I want to know how they’re experiencing the material, and I want to be able to talk with them about it. So first, we have this group chat, and I’m literally freaking out. “Guys.” LAUREN: With close friends of yours in the cohort? JOY: In my cohort. “How are we feeling? Is anybody else... I’m freaking out. What about this vainglory chapter?” And yes, I’m having a hard time with the material. But the core of what I’m having a hard time with is the way the idea is being presented. It can turn you toward religiosity and actually take you off course. There are a few sentences about receiving God’s love, and that being the antidote. But there’s not a lot of “this is how we got here, and this is how we get out of it.” It’s just very heavy on every single angle. On envy, on everything. Just not helpful content. So of course I’m reacting to it as a person. But as a soul care practitioner, I’m reacting like, are we actually teaching this to people? How is this helpful? And even with my pastor heart, I’m thinking, people need to stop being harmed by certain teachings. I’m seeing the way these kinds of teachings have been used in the past, and I’m feeling protective of my own cohort members and classmates. I’ll wrap up with this. I won’t go into a ton of it, but I have a lot of thoughts about this class in particular. Psychology was dismissed immediately, at the beginning of the book. It’s basically, psychology has nothing for us, and we listen to the desert fathers and the disciplines. That’s the premise. LAUREN: My jaw is on the floor. JOY: So you can imagine me. Faith and psychology. Immediately my guard was up with the book. If we’re not even going to make a tiny bit of room... LAUREN: For science. JOY: Not even a minute for science. Not to discover what our faith is. We don’t go to science to find our faith. We go to science to understand why and how we are where we are, and what happens in the world. So with the professor on the call, I asked the question. I said, “I noticed that psychology is basically pooh-poohed throughout the book, and I have a hard time with that, because I actually appreciate psychology. I feel like there’s a lot we can learn there.” She went into attachment theory a little, so I guess she picks and chooses what she likes from psychology. But then she landed on, essentially, psychology is humanistic and we just need the disciplines. And I was like, “Okay. Well, I disagree, but maybe we can talk about it more later.” So what I’m learning is how to speak my truth in an honoring way. I didn’t come at her. It wasn’t an altercation. LAUREN: You didn’t dismiss what she said. JOY: No, I didn’t dismiss what she said. I just said, “I disagree. I don’t see psychology that way. Thank you so much for your response.” But it was a whole thing, and then other classmates asked questions, and I was not happy with her responses to them either. What I’m learning is how to kindly, gently speak my piece to a situation that actually needs my voice. I think it was important for me to speak up. I was speaking to my classmates, but also to her. LAUREN: And for them. JOY: And for them. There are even therapists in the cohort. So that was intense. And there have been multiple this week. Confrontation is hard. I think I’m still in the confrontation class. Jesus, are we almost done with that class? Can we check this one off? I can get my grade now and close the book. I’m ready to graduate. What’s Coming Up JOY: Well, what’s coming up for you this week? LAUREN: Next weekend my husband turns 50. JOY: Oh my goodness, that’s so exciting. LAUREN: Super exciting. And what’s most exciting is two of his really dear buddies from Ohio are driving into town and staying at an Airbnb right around the corner from us. My husband has the best weekend planned. His kind of weekend. Lots of golf scheduled. JOY: Of course. LAUREN: We’re supposed to get tickets to whatever show is happening at the amphitheater on Thursday. A country artist I’ve never heard of. But live music is fun. We were thinking about throwing a party, because it’s his 50th, and one of his really dear friends in town is turning 40. Their birthdays are one day apart. JOY: A combo. Love it. LAUREN: But then I found out that dear friends of ours host a Brunswick stew party every year. A fall thing. They’re up in the mountains of Amherst. Their family are cattle farmers, so they’ve got lots and lots of land. We all drive up to the top of this mountain, and there’s a beautiful pergola... JOY: And they’re going to be here for that weekend. LAUREN: And they’re going to be here for that weekend. So perfect. It’s one of my absolute favorite traditions I’ve been able to be a part of. I’m so grateful for this friend, who invited me before she even knew me. They get a bluegrass band that plays the whole time. Usually we camp up there after, but we won’t. I won’t make those boys camp. I’m so excited to celebrate my husband, and for the Brunswick Stew Festival. It’s not a festival. It’s a party. About 100 people gather for it. It’s huge. JOY: That’s so great. LAUREN: And I got paint for the front door. Ben really wanted to paint the front door. JOY: Did you pick out a color you like? Are you happy with it? LAUREN: It’s a marigold. A goldy yellow. Ben wanted Masters yellow, that bright, greeny yellow. I was like, “I love you, but no.” JOY: Marigold is going to be great. LAUREN: A little cozier yellow. That’s what’s coming up for me. How about you? JOY: Well, we have another trip. I feel like every time we sit here talking, I’m going on another trip. I’m going to see my bestie Tyson from the Renovaré Institute. He lives in Myrtle Beach with his wife Grace, and we’re going to be with him and his family. He’s got two little boys and a baby girl. My son’s coming with us, and we’re going to spend the weekend. Apparently the city he lives in turns completely into Halloween City. There are festivals and decorations everywhere. I don’t know what we’re going to be doing, but we’re going to be together and have a great time. Can’t wait to see you, Tyson. LAUREN: Enjoying fall in the South. I hope you have the best time. JOY: He’s my adopted brother. All of our siblings in the RI are just like family. It’s really special to have that together, especially when things don’t always work out with your own family in the ways you wish they would. Which I won’t go into. But I’m really grateful for my chosen brother Tyson, and my other brothers and sisters from the RI. LAUREN: And the fact that you all, as adults, chose to do this program. You knew you needed it. And then you showed up so fully, exposed your hearts, and bonded with one another. It’s just beautiful. I’m happy for you all. JOY: It really does take bravery at this age, all of us at different ages and stages, to open up. LAUREN: To do something difficult. Y’all chose to do that through school. JOY: To go to classes you don’t want to go to. LAUREN: For the betterment of your soul. JOY: That’s right. And I get my certificate. LAUREN: It’ll be great for you to have the certificate. But it’s so cool that you all chose it. JOY: It’s really great. Overall it’s been an incredible program, but I’m definitely there for the people. That’s why I’m there. LAUREN: That’s huge. Well, thank you for sharing. Prompts for This Week LAUREN: Do you have any prompts when it comes to presence? JOY: Oh, prompts. I didn’t even think about that. I think it would just be practicing the Ns. Try to practice notice, name, normalize, and nurture. Just give it a whirl. Can you take a minute to see what’s going on? That would be a helpful practice. I can’t think of a journaling prompt. Do you have something? LAUREN: Notice. Not even journal. Just feel it, live it. Be in your body. JOY: And maybe even while you’re listening right now, think of the question: Am I present? What could I do to be more present? Am I a present person? What is taking me away from presence? LAUREN: And if you’re in fight or flight, or in that numb, dissociated place where you’re living life on autopilot, just stop and ask, “Do I want to be living this way? Is there another path I could take to shake things up a bit? And is there anything I’m avoiding that’s keeping me here?” JOY: Ooh, avoiding. That’s a good one. That could take us on another half-hour conversation. But we’re going to wrap it up now. Thank you so much for being here, friends, on the fall side of the studio. LAUREN: The fall side of the studio. It’s lovely. We have a beautiful view of the fall leaves. JOY: I really like this view. Thanks for being with us, and we’ll see you next time. LAUREN: See you, guys. Bye. JOY: Bye. Resources and Links Mentioned: * The Cartography of Calling, Joy’s virtual journaling workshop (Tuesday, October 27 at noon): * Lauren’s The Seeking Space: https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space (https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space) * Renovaré Institute (Joy’s certification program): https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute) * The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron: https://juliacameronlive.com/book/the-artists-way-a-spiritual-path-to-higher-creativity/ (https://juliacameronlive.com/book/the-artists-way-a-spiritual-path-to-higher-creativity/) * Slow Productivity by Cal Newport: https://calnewport.com/slow-productivity/ (https://calnewport.com/slow-productivity/) * Glittering Vices by Rebecca Konyndyk DeYoung: https://renovare.org/books/glittering-vices (https://renovare.org/books/glittering-vices) Thanks for reading! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support this podcast. Connect with Joy:Meridian Soul Care (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) | Instagram (http://tps//www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) Connect with Lauren:The Smarter Creative (https://thesmartercreative.com/) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) | YouTube (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) We’d love to hear from you. DM us, drop a comment, or send a voice note on Instagram (Joy (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) or Lauren (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) or both!) and tell us which of the four Ns you tried, or what pulls you out of the present (or leave a comment on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKy3CbgmdMXfhgfaCC2s9Cg) or here on Substack). We would love to hear from you. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

2. 

   6 Oct 2026

   Is There Growing Without Learning?

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: * Joy made it up the mountain. Her solo weekend at a friend’s house in Asheville came with a loaner car, a five-minute driveway, and a mini panic attack. She came home with six or seven pages of journaling and a new practice of taking mental pictures so the rest could come home with her * Lauren hosted the first Seeking Space, the Free the Gifts retreat starts today. * This week’s value: learning and growing, the one so built into the show that it never made the original list * Joy says learning calms her nervous system. Lauren says that is not her experience, and names the shame of not already knowing * Learning as a heart posture, plus Lauren’s two-hour Mahjong class as proof you can learn just for fun * Why knowing the answers can feel like safety, and what Joy heard about it being okay not to know * Over-learning: when staying in research mode feels like progress but nothing actually moves * What they’re learning: Lauren on resistance that turned out to have a reason, and Joy on hearing “not right now” and staying the course with Renovaré, with a stop at Julian of Norwich and the hazelnut * What’s coming up: Lauren is getting back to her morning writing, and Joy is bringing back journaling workshops and finishing a donation page so soul care is available to people who need it ✍️ Prompts for this week: What are you learning right now? How are you growing? Then the harder one: what's getting in the way? What is keeping you from learning, and from becoming the person you want to be? Take both to your journal and just sit with the questions. LET US KNOW We’d love to hear what you're learning right now, or how you're growing! Drop us a DM on Instagram (Joy (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) or Lauren (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) or both!) or leave a comment on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKy3CbgmdMXfhgfaCC2s9Cg) or here on Substack. Resources and Links Mentioned: * The Seeking Space: https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space (https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space) * I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet (https://bookshop.org/p/books/i-guess-i-haven-t-learned-that-yet-discovering-new-ways-of-living-when-the-old-ways-stop-working-shauna-niequist/5b17aeab711fa94e?ean=9780310355564) by Shauna Niequist: (https://bookshop.org/p/books/i-guess-i-haven-t-learned-that-yet-discovering-new-ways-of-living-when-the-old-ways-stop-working-shauna-niequist/5b17aeab711fa94e?ean=9780310355564) * Renovaré (Joy’s certification program): https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute) * Renovaré Podcast, Episode 95: Mimi Dixon on Julian of Norwich: https://renovare.org/podcast/episode-95-mimi-dixon-julian-of-norwich (https://renovare.org/podcast/episode-95-mimi-dixon-julian-of-norwich) * Julian of Norwich, (https://bookshop.org/p/books/revelations-of-divine-love-julian-of-norwich/e07139c32a9ac2ba?ean=9780199641185)Revelations of Divine Love (https://bookshop.org/p/books/revelations-of-divine-love-julian-of-norwich/e07139c32a9ac2ba?ean=9780199641185) * The free woman and the slave woman, Galatians 4:21-31 Connect with us: 🐚 Joy Star Bright / Meridian Soul Care * Website: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) 🪄 Lauren Barr / The Smarter Creative * Website: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) * YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

3. 

   22 Sept 2026

   Calling Is a Practice, Not a Finish Line

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: - Joy recaps the whirlwind weekend of moving her daughter into her dorm in Philly (a midnight IKEA run, a mysteriously perfect dresser found curbside) followed by a restful visit from her friend Beth - Lauren shares she's launching The Seeking Space, a new virtual quiet time gathering, ahead of her upcoming Free the Gifts retreat - This week's value: living into our creative calling, and what changes when you pair "creative" with "calling" - Joy shares the three part framework she felt the Lord give her: called to the Creator, recreated by Him, then creating alongside Him - Lauren opens up about leaving her ministry job to start The Smarter Creative, and how her sense of calling has kept shifting since - They talk about identity, status, and what it looks like to hold your calling with an open hand - What they're learning: Lauren is building a simple system to capture marketing ideas, and Joy is shifting some clients toward imaginative prayer, calling herself a student in "the school of confrontation" Prompts for this week: Take real, unhurried time this week to sit with your calling. Come with one specific question, even a vague one like "what should I focus on for the next five years?" No advice, no AI, just you and the question. Journal, stare at a wall, whatever gets you there. If you want company while you do it, Lauren's hosting the first Seeking Space, a free virtual quiet time gathering, this Wednesday at 10am. Resources and Links Mentioned:- The Seeking Space: https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space (https://smartercreative.myflodesk.com/seeking-space)- Free the Gifts Retreat: https://www.rhinocollective.org/freethegifts (https://www.rhinocollective.org/freethegifts)- Renovaré (Joy's certification program): https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute)- Dr. Keri Schafer, Joy's soul care mentor: https://breathesoulcare.org/ (https://breathesoulcare.org/) Connect with us: Lauren Barr, The Smarter Creative: Website (https://thesmartercreative.com), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/), YouTube (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) Joy Star Bright, Meridian Soul Care: Website (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) We'd love to hear from you. DM us, drop a comment, or send a voice note on Instagram and tell us what living into your creative calling looks like for you. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

4. 

   8 Sept 2026

   The Practice of Self-Compassion

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: > The solitude day verdict is in, plus an unplanned empty-house weekend that turned out even better. > Lauren’s building a scaled-down version of her Jesus CEO practice, to test with friends before her Free the Gifts retreat in October. > Lauren’s halfway through Big Magic and can’t put it down, plus what her current fiction pick taught her about how books affect your sleep. > This week’s value is self-compassion, and Joy walks through Kristin Neff’s three components: self-kindness, common humanity, and mindfulness. > Joy’s go-to practical tool for overwhelm: tapping, paired with words of self-compassion spoken out loud. > What self-compassion looks like for Lauren day to day, from pleasure reading to working from bed during her luteal phase. > Neither host relates to “common humanity” the way Kristin Neff describes it, and they dig into why. > What Joy’s learning: setting up Stripe for a client scholarship fund, and a new habit borrowed from Lauren, tracking her own weekly wins. > What Lauren’s learning: a return to writing, her LiveJournal roots, and where she’s drawn a hard line with AI. > What’s coming up: Lauren’s rebuilding her content system from scratch, and Joy’s gearing up for a Philadelphia move, a girls’ weekend, and the next Selah Sisterhood. ✍️ Prompts for this week: Take Kristin Neff's three components of self-compassion, self-kindness, common humanity, and mindfulness, and ask yourself: > which one do I need to grow in? > which one do I already feel confident in? > write down two or three things you learned about yourself along the way. LET US KNOW What does self-compassion look like for you, or where is it hardest to practice? Drop us a DM on Instagram (Joy (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) or Lauren (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) or both!) or leave a comment on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKy3CbgmdMXfhgfaCC2s9Cg) or here on Substack. We would love to hear from you. Resources and Links Mentioned: Kristin Neff’s self-compassion research (https://selfcompassionacademy.com/kristin-neff-self-compassion/) Big Magic (https://bookshop.org/p/books/big-magic-creative-living-beyond-fear-elizabeth-gilbert/8e82d1652a8a500f) by Elizabeth Gilbert The Poisonwood Bible (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-poisonwood-bible-barbara-kingsolver/15546008) by Barbara Kingsolver Christ Centered Tribe (https://www.christcenteredtribe.com/), Christian EFT tapping and meditation Free the Gifts retreat (https://www.rhinocollective.org/freethegifts), Central Virginia, first weekend of October Connect with us: 🐚 Joy Star Bright / Meridian Soul Care Website: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) 🪄 Lauren Barr / The Smarter Creative Website: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

5. 

   10 Aug 2026

   What It Means to Remember

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode The hair steamer verdict is in, plus Ben's reaction to Lauren finally buying something for herself. Joy turns in her Renovaré papers and gets hit with the adrenaline crash that follows. Lauren finally sits down with the client project she'd been avoiding, with an assist from eight hours of brown noise. A new duo journal, and the daily promise Lauren's been keeping: be gentle with yourself. This week's value is remembrance, and its shadow side, forgetfulness. Joy traces remembrance back to the Eucharist, and to the idea that to remember is to re-member, to put separated things back together. Lauren admits she bristled at the word remembrance at first, mistaking it for nostalgia. Honoring a lived life, from a friend they've lost to a historically Black neighborhood restoration project in town. What Lauren's learning: fountain pens, restful podcast rabbit holes, and letting an AI track her days for her. What Joy's learning: a new Renovaré book on the Desert Fathers, and finally listening to her body before it forces the issue. Joy's actual plan for solitude this fall, including a borrowed Airbnb for a full day. What's coming up: Lauren's Free the Gifts retreat and a project she isn't ready to talk about yet, plus Joy's new couples' soul care program and Lucy's move to Philadelphia. Prompts for this week Take some quiet time this week and start a gratitude list. Let it lead you somewhere. Ask directly: Lord, what do you want to remind me of? What have you done in my life that I've forgotten? If you look back at your own history and it stings a little, sit with that too. Remembrance is not just the good parts. It's honoring the whole of a lived life. Resources and Links Mentioned Wilde House Paper Routine Journals (https://wildehousepaper.com/collections/routine-journals), the morning and evening duo The Five Minute Journal (https://www.intelligentchange.com/products/the-five-minute-journal) by Intelligent Change Pilot Kakuno fountain pen (https://www.gouletpens.com/collections/pilot-kakuno-fountain-pens) 99% Invisible (https://99percentinvisible.org) To Love as God Loves (https://renovare.org/books/to-love-as-god-loves) by Roberta C. Bondi, this course's Renovaré book on the Desert Fathers Big Magic (https://bookshop.org/p/books/big-magic-creative-living-beyond-fear-elizabeth-gilbert/8e82d1652a8a500f) by Elizabeth Gilbert The Artist's Way (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-artist-s-way-30th-anniversary-edition-julia-cameron/7f27745af1fe4ae4) by Julia Cameron [Free the Gifts retreat](ADD LINK), Central Virginia, first weekend of October The Gottman Method (https://www.gottman.com/) Emotionally Focused Therapy (https://iceeft.com/), Sue Johnson's approach to couples work Connect with us Lauren Barr, The Smarter Creative Website (https://thesmartercreative.com) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) | YouTube (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) Joy Star Bright, Meridian Soul Care Website (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) What are you remembering this week, and what have you let yourself forget? Tell us. DM us, drop a comment, or send a voice note on Instagram. We read every one. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

6. 

   27 Jul 2026

   Building Real Community in a Lonely World

   Lauren drove over to Joy's studio for this one. It's the first time the two of them had sat down together in about a month, and the first new conversation since the archival values workshop that ran last week. The value this week is community, and Joy came with research she could not wait to read out loud. In this episode: * The verdict on the 40-day YAP challenge. Lauren made it to about day 35 and then could not bring herself to yap one more time. What she learned about daily posting, and why it is so embarrassing to be seen trying something new. * Joy’s update on working with a creative coach, and what changes when someone matches your energy instead of pushing you. * The value this week is community, and Joy brings receipts. The 2023 Surgeon General advisory found that lacking social connection carries a mortality risk comparable to smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. * Why the most digitally connected generation is also reporting loneliness at or above the rates of older adults. * Hurt that happens in community needs to heal in community. Relational wounds require shared safety, accountability, and connection to truly repair. * How long do you keep repairing a relationship before you accept that it is not repairable? Nobody teaches us this. * Rupture, repair, and the stability in between. Plus what Survival of the Thickest gets right about the awkwardness of going first. * Third places, and where they went. Gyms, art studios, D&D groups, golf clubs, the writers group that meets in town. * Inconvenience is the price of community. And the harder half of that deal, which is letting other people be inconvenienced for you. * Forgiveness is not the same thing as repair. You can forgive someone completely without inviting them back into your life. * What Joy is learning about managing her 12 week year goals, and the four things she now attaches to every single one. * What Lauren is learning about avoiding the project that needs her whole brain, and how to be gentle with herself in it. * What’s coming up. Lauren has a retreat in October and knows exactly what she wants to lead. Joy is holding a lot of summer, and her youngest turns 13. ✍️ Prompts for this week: Where do you feel the ache? We can be surrounded by people and notifications and still feel alone. Get specific about what kind of lonely it is. Lonely for a parent. Lonely for a partner. Lonely for a friend, or for a community. If you could have exactly what your heart is longing for right now, what would that be? Name one real, in person, repeated point of contact in your life. Not just someone who exists in your life, but a connection that actually feeds you. Why does that one work? If you want to go a step deeper: look at where you are holding resentment and where you could forgive. Take it to prayer, or to a therapist, or to whoever you process with. LET US KNOW We’d love to hear what community means to you or what you’re learning! Drop us a DM on Instagram (Joy (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) or Lauren (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) or both!) or leave a comment on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKy3CbgmdMXfhgfaCC2s9Cg) or on Substack (https://comeandgrow.substack.com/). We would love to hear from you. Resources and Links Mentioned: * The Happiness Trap (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-happiness-trap-how-to-stop-struggling-and-start-living-second-edition-russ-harris/11796733) by Russ Harris, the book behind the values workshop in Episode 5 * Christina Hubbard (https://www.christinahubbard.com/), creative coach * The 12 Week Year (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-12-week-year-get-more-done-in-12-weeks-than-others-do-in-12-months-brian-p-moran/155bb8e9ae584609) by Brian P. Moran and Michael Lennington * Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation (https://whatisessential.org/surgeon-general-loneliness-epidemic-requires-investments-social-connection?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=24055312471&gbraid=0AAAAADH4zCloYT3evaOpRxUR8KP4BloH7&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvLj-8f7ylQMVSW9HAR0yyQ-mEAAYASAAEgK8-_D_BwE), the 2023 US Surgeon General advisory * WHO Commission on Social Connection (https://www.who.int/groups/commission-on-social-connection) * The Restless Heart (https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-restless-heart-finding-our-spiritual-home-in-times-of-loneliness_ronald-rolheiser/307849/item/36303616/) by Ronald Rolheiser * Find Your People (https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/find-your-people-building-deep-community-in-a-lonely-world_jennie-allen/28938453/) by Jennie Allen * Renovaré (https://renovare.org/) Connect with us: 🐚 Joy Star Bright / Meridian Soul Care * Website: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) 🪄 Lauren Barr / The Smarter Creative * Website: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) * YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

7. 

   13 Jul 2026

   The Values Workshop

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: * Lauren and Joy took a real break from recording this week, so instead of skipping it, they’re sharing something from the archive: a values workshop Lauren taught a couple of years ago inside a community Joy was hosting at the time * A breakdown of Russ Harris’s The Happiness Trap and why values, rules, virtues, and goals are not the same thing * Five research-backed reasons values matter, including how the World Health Organization uses this same framework in refugee camps * The four areas of life this workshop is built around: work, love, play, health, and why “family” or “faith” are categories, not values themselves * A live workbook conversation with Joy and a friend, working through their own values in real time * What surprised them, including the idea that a value can be seasonal and doesn’t have to last forever Prompts for this week: Is there a value you hold that you’re not currently living out? Are you still allowed to claim it as yours? Looking at your four areas, work, love, play, health, pick just one value to focus on this week instead of five. What’s a personal “rule” you’ve been mistaking for a value? Resources and Links Mentioned: * The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris — https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-happiness-trap-second-edition-how-to-stop-struggling-and-start-living-russ-harris/ce72845c925af76b * Values workbook mentioned in the episode — https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-IUy1rucYHRYyq2RarGwO6k2kqXPV-hu/view?usp=drive_link * Meridian Soul Care: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ Connect with us: 🐚 Joy Star Bright / Meridian Soul Care * Website: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) 🪄 Lauren Barr / The Smarter Creative * Website: https://thesmartercreative.com * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) * YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) Loved this one? Share it with a friend, or send us a DM, comment, or voice note on Instagram telling us your own values. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

8. 

   29 Jun 2026

   What Your True North Is Pointing Toward

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: - Lauren gives a verdict on her 40-day video challenge: she's posted almost every day - Joy just got back from a Renovare retreat in Colorado Springs and a trip to San Antonio, and is still getting her days back - The value for the episode: Pilgrimage, the practice of journeying toward a holy place — and what that looks like in ordinary life - Joy shares a framework she calls "Becoming the Dream of God," built around four concentric circles (intimacy, identity, inheritance, influence) and four cornerstone beliefs from Bill Johnson - Lauren's favorite book on pilgrimage: The Way of the Pilgrim, a 19th-century Russian text about what it means to pray without ceasing - Joy's: Hinds' Feet on High Places — specifically the illustrated version — and the road treasures the character finds along the way - Lauren shares something she heard from Becoming Your Future Self Now about a study where teachers were told three random students had the highest IQ scores — and at year's end, those kids actually outperformed their peers - Joy reflects on what she learned working alongside her daughter Lucy to pack up her apartment in San Antonio, and how they actively chose not to let the pressure wreck their relationship - Joy is starting a 100-painting project inspired by Flora Bowley's Fresh Paint, and beginning work with a creative coach to develop a Meridian Soul Care certification curriculumPrompts for this week: Where am I headed, and what am I longing for? What is my true north actually pointing toward — and do I believe it's available to me? What do I believe about God? What do I believe about myself on the journey? Resources and Links Mentioned: Hinds' Feet on High Places (https://bookshop.org/p/books/hinds-feet-on-high-places-hannah-hurnard/ae4990ec3eef9839) by Hannah Hurnard The Way of the Pilgrim (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-way-of-a-pilgrim-and-the-pilgrim-continues-on-his-way-collector-s-edition-anonymous-19th-century-russian-peasant/11434123) (19th-century Russian mystic text) Renovare Institute (https://renovare.org/institute/overview) St. Francis Retreat Center, Colorado Springs (https://www.franciscanretreatcenter.org/) Becoming Your Future Self Now (https://bookshop.org/p/books/be-your-future-self-now-the-science-of-intentional-transformation-dr-benjamin-hardy/134b566c0b58f98d) by Benjamin Hardy Caleb Ralston (https://calebralston.com/) (personal brand/content creation podcast) Fresh Paint (https://florabowley.com/books/) by Flora Bowley The Scrappy Elephant (https://www.scrappyelephant.com/) (local shop where Joy found the book) Psalm 84:5-7 (The Passion Translation): "How enriched are they who find their strength in the Lord. Within their hearts are the highways of holiness. Even when their paths wind through the dark valley of tears, they dig deep to find a pleasant pool where others find only pain. He gives to them a brook of blessing filled from the rain of an outpouring. They grow stronger and stronger with every step forward, and the God of all gods will appear before them in Zion." — Read on (https://www.bible.com/en/bible/1849/PSA.84.5-7.TPT) Bible.com (http://Bible.com) Bill Johnson's books (https://shop.bethel.com/collections/bill-johnson) Connect with us: 🐚 Joy Star Bright / Meridian Soul Care Website: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) 🪄 Lauren Barr / The Smarter Creative Website: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) Want to continue the conversation? Drop a comment on Substack or YouTube, or find us in our DMs on Instagram. We'd love to hear what pilgrimage means to you. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

9. 

   15 Jun 2026

   Finding Simplicity by Leaving Chaos

   Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: → Lauren made it happen: she figured out the logistics and is heading to the beach in South Carolina for a solo trip. Seven hours in the car alone, and she's very happy about it. → Joy dropped her son off at Camp Deerfoot in North Carolina for two weeks with no phones. Her mama heart is adjusting. → Joy is still working on her Instagram content pillars and is leaving Saturday for a 10-day trip that includes helping pack up Lucy's place. → The value this week is simplicity. Lauren and Joy unpack what it means, how it shows up differently for each of them, and why the opposite of simplicity isn't minimalism. It's chaos. → Joy shares something personal: years of overcomplicating her life were tied to self-sabotage and a deep belief that she didn't deserve to succeed. Simplicity changed when her identity changed. → Lauren notices AI-generated client emails that are needlessly elaborate and how complexity without self-expression is just cumbersome. → Lauren is doing a 40-day YAP challenge with a TikTok creator she followed. She's posting every day and gaining followers. The big lesson: soul over strategy. → Joy is in the Renovare Institute, writing papers, and noodling on the question of what it actually means to become like Jesus, especially as a woman. → Lauren is sitting with a belief she's still carrying: that making money has to require a lot of effort. She's not sure that's true. → Coming up: Joy is hiring a writing coach (Christina Hubbard) to help develop a certification for Meridian Soul Care, and possibly combine it with her Renovare final project. Prompts for this week: Where in your life are you overcomplicating something that could be simple? Is that connected to what you believe you deserve? What are you learning right now? (Lauren and Joy want to know. Hit their DMs.) Resources and Links Mentioned: Camp Deerfoot: https://blueridge.deerfoot.org/ (https://blueridge.deerfoot.org/) Renovare Institute: https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute) Dallas Willard, Renovation of the Heart: https://dwillard.org/resources/books/renovation-of-the-heart (https://dwillard.org/resources/books/renovation-of-the-heart) Dallas Willard, Spirit of the Disciplines: https://dwillard.org/resources/books/spirit-of-the-disciplines (https://dwillard.org/resources/books/spirit-of-the-disciplines) A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Kelly: https://quakerbooks.org/products/a-testament-of-devotion-2793 (https://quakerbooks.org/products/a-testament-of-devotion-2793) The YAP Challenge (Jessi Jean): https://www.instagram.com/jessijeanhome/ (https://www.instagram.com/jessijeanhome/) Lauren’s Personal Brand where the YAP Challenge is happening: @laurenbarr.co (https://www.instagram.com/laurenbarr.co) Christina Hubbard (writing coach and poet): https://www.christinahubbard.com/ (https://www.christinahubbard.com/) Meridian Soul Care: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) The Smarter Creative: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) Connect with us: Lauren Barr: Website (https://thesmartercreative.com) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) | YouTube (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) Joy Star Bright: Website (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) We'd love to hear from you. What does simplicity mean to you? What are you learning right now? Drop a comment, leave a review, or send us a DM on Instagram. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

10. 

    1 Jun 2026

    On Authenticity

    Come and Grow is a podcast hosted by two dear friends, Joy Star Bright and Lauren Barr. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They're different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. Each episode anchors in a value discussion and what each host is learning right now. In this episode: → Recap: Lauren's reformer Pilates verdict (four out of five, not sweaty, very bougie) → Joy met a woman at the Y who is turning 90 in November, runs 10Ks, and weighs what she weighed in high school. Joy recorded the conversation. You'll want to hear it. → This week's value: Authenticity. Lauren went to Merriam-Webster. Joy went to the Greek. Both landed in the same place: acting from self, not performing for others. IFS, parts work, and what "self" we're actually being authentic to → Lauren's one-journal-entry story that changed her life in her 20s → Joy's Substack essay on embodiment and what it took to start listening to her body → Lauren learned to make a paper zine. She brought one. Joy lost it. → What's coming up: Joy has a Renovare retreat in Colorado and a birthday trip to Texas. Lauren is deciding whether to make it to a family beach trip on Edisto Island, laptop question pending. ✍️ Prompts for this week: When are you not living your authentic self? When do you feel disconnected from who you want to be in this world? Sit with that. Take it to your journal. And if something surprises you, you don't have to share it with anyone. Full permission to keep that one for yourself. 📖 Resources and Links Mentioned: Raye, "Joy" from This Music May Contain Hope (2026): https://music.apple.com/us/album/joy/1871085677?i=1871086036 (https://music.apple.com/us/album/joy/1871085677?i=1871086036) IFS (Internal Family Systems) — Richard Schwartz: https://ifs-institute.com (https://ifs-institute.com) No Bad Parts by Richard Schwartz: https://www.amazon.com/No-Bad-Parts-Restoring-Wholeness/dp/1683646681 (https://www.amazon.com/No-Bad-Parts-Restoring-Wholeness/dp/1683646681) The 8 Cs and 5 Ps of Self in IFS — 8 Cs: Curiosity, Compassion, Calm, Clarity, Courage, Confidence, Creativity, Connectedness. 5 Ps: Presence, Perspective, Patience, Persistence, Playfulness: https://ifs-institute.com (https://ifs-institute.com) The Renovare Institute: https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute) Cultivate by The Cageless Birds (Melissa Helser essay): https://shop.cagelessbirds.com/products/cultivate-the-head-to-the-heart-volume-1 (https://shop.cagelessbirds.com/products/cultivate-the-head-to-the-heart-volume-1) The Creative Bodega with Em Connors (Canva content creator): https://www.thecreativebodega.com/ (https://www.thecreativebodega.com/) Canva: https://www.canva.com (https://www.canva.com) Lauren's zine Instagram post: https://www.instagram.com/p/DZCv86ZkWOH/?img_index=1 (https://www.instagram.com/p/DZCv86ZkWOH/?img_index=1) Free zine PDF formatter (Zine Arranger): https://nashhigh.itch.io/zinearranger (https://nashhigh.itch.io/zinearranger) 🌸 Connect with us: Lauren Barr The Smarter Creative: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) Joy Star Bright Meridian Soul Care: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) We'd love to hear what authenticity means to you. Drop us a DM on Instagram, leave a comment on YouTube, or send us a voice note. We want to hear your actual voice. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

11. 

    18 May 2026

    Turning Towards Wholeness

    Welcome to Come and Grow, a podcast hosted by two friends who live in a small mountain town in Virginia. Lauren runs The Smarter Creative, a business operations studio for creative entrepreneurs. Joy is a soul care coach at Meridian Soul Care. They are different in how they work and see the world, but deeply aligned in what they value. This show is rooted in two things: a value discussion and what each host is currently learning. The invitation is simple: come, and grow with us. In this episode: ● Who Lauren and Joy are and how they met (paint smocks were involved) ● The story behind the podcast name Come and Grow, and what each word means to them ● Their first value: Wholesomeness. What it is, what it is not, and why it matters right now ● What they are each learning: Lauren is reading The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod and sitting with the S.A.V.E.R.S. framework. Joy discovered that creativity breeds more creativity, and is making peace with keeping her art in the hobby lane for now. ● What is coming up: Lauren tries reformer Pilates for the first time and has a birthday massage on the calendar. Joy is working on an email about disembodiment and what it means to honor your body’s design. LET US KNOW What does “wholesome” mean to you? Drop us a DM on Instagram or leave a comment on YouTube. We would love to hear it. Resources Mentioned:Joy’s Business Coach, Minette Riordan: https://www.minetteriordan.com/ (https://www.minetteriordan.com/) The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod: https://miraclemorning.com/books/ (https://miraclemorning.com/books/) The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-happiness-trap-second-edition-how-to-stop-struggling-and-start-living-russ-harris/ce72845c925af76b?ean=9781645471165&next=t (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-happiness-trap-second-edition-how-to-stop-struggling-and-start-living-russ-harris/ce72845c925af76b?ean=9781645471165&next=t) The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron: https://www.amazon.com/Artists-Way-25th-Anniversary/dp/0143129252 (https://www.amazon.com/Artists-Way-25th-Anniversary/dp/0143129252) The Renovare Institute: https://renovare.org/institute (https://renovare.org/institute) Flewd Bath Soaks: https://flewdsoaks.com (https://flewdsoaks.com) Connect with Joy: Meridian Soul Care: https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/ (https://www.meridiansoulcare.com/) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/ (https://www.instagram.com/meridian.soul/) Connect with Lauren: The Smarter Creative: https://thesmartercreative.com (https://thesmartercreative.com) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/ (https://www.instagram.com/thesmartercreative/) YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative (https://youtube.com/@thesmartercreative) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit comeandgrow.substack.com (https://comeandgrow.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

Contact Come & Grow Podcast

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Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.