Corporate Bodies

About Corporate Bodies

Corporate Bodies asks: why are organisations so weird? And what could we do to make them better? After all, most of us have worked in companies at some point in our lives and know one thing for sure: working life is odd. The dynamics are messy, the hierarchies are often unjust, and when things go wrong, people start acting very strangely indeed. Hosts Kate Swade and Mark Walton – the co-creators of Shared Assets – talk to people with a range of perspectives on organisational weirdness, providing practical examples of how we can make this relationship between people and organisations better. Join us on the journey as we turn and face the strange! corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast)

Publisher

Kate Swade and Mark Walton

Category

business · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

22 Apr 2025

Latest episode

10 Jul 2025

Latest episodes

12 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   10 Jul 2025

   Episode 11: Brainwaves

   Join Mark and Kate as they look back over the last ten episodes of Corporate Bodies and talk about what they’ve learned. They particularly talk about how their thinking about legal personhood and the other “original sins” of incorporation has changed. They talk about how organisations might change if we conceptualise them as ecosystems that need tending rather than people that need animating, and other day-to-day practices we might use to change how we approach work. They also consider what the next step for the Corporate Bodies project might be – and are looking for funders, supporters, and fellow travellers as they explore next steps. Should they examine organisational weirdness in bigger organisations? Uncover more links between work and intimate relationships? Maybe think about more structural or legalistic changes to corporate structures? Let them know what you think by emailing corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) or dropping a voicenote to www.speakpipe.com/corporatebodies (https://www.speakpipe.com/corporatebodies) Resources: The article accompanying the episode is here (https://open.substack.com/pub/corporatebodies/p/from-corporate-bodies-to-gardens?r=1iays&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true). * You can see all the podcast episodes we refer to here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/podcast) * Find more on the original sins here: incorporation (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-incorporation), limited liability (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-limited-liability), legal personhood (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-incorporation-ed1) and employment contracting (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/always-read-the-fine-print) * Annette Dhami and her team’s work on Beyond the Rules at Dark Matter Labs (https://darkmatterlabs.org/) – more here (https://darkmatterlabs.notion.site/Beyond-the-Rules-19e692bf98f54b44971ca34700e246fd), or a great overview here (https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-balanced-governance-and-behaving-well-everywhere-every-day-5aa852b4843e) * Esther Perel’s “How’s Work” (https://www.estherperel.com/podcasts/hw-s1-episode1) podcast Follow us: at … or wherever you get your podcasts. Email us: at corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) Presenters: Kate Swade (she/her), independent organisational development and governance consultant Mark Walton (he/him), Founder and Director, Shared Assets Editor: Katie Revell (https://katierevell.com/) (she/her) Artwork: Hanna Norberg-Williams (https://hannanorbergwilliams.myportfolio.com/home) (they/them) Music: fête beat (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/huit-moments-avec-jean/fete-beat/) by Jean Toba (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/) Supporters: The series is supported by the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP), which is a cutting edge research organisation based at the University of Surrey. CUSP explores the question: What does prosperity mean in a world of environmental, social, and economic limits? For more details, visit cusp.ac.uk (http://cusp.ac.uk). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

2. 

   3 Jul 2025

   Episode 10: Composting

   Esther Foreman from Social Change Nest joins hosts Kate Swade and Mark Walton to examine organizing collectively as an ecosystem, requiring comfort with mess and new rituals, in this interview episode.

3. 

   26 Jun 2025

   Episode 9: Death

   Louise Armstrong, co-founder of The Decelerator, joins hosts Kate Swade and Mark Walton to discuss the emotional complexities of organizational death, exploring signs of decline and missed opportunities in endings in this interview.

4. 

   19 Jun 2025

   Episode 8: The Soul

   Zarah Davidson and Daniel Ford discuss the concept of a corporate "soul" or "source" within organizations, particularly focusing on the founder's role and the challenges of succession, in an interview with Kate Swade and Mark Walton.

5. 

   12 Jun 2025

   Episode 7: The Immune System

   Hosts Kate Swade and Mark Walton discuss the history, structures, and practices of the cooperative movement in the UK with Mark Simmonds, exploring the nuances of worker, community, and consumer co-ops in this interview episode.

6. 

   5 Jun 2025

   Episode 6: Injuries to the Body

   Abbie Kempson from People Support Co-op discusses with hosts Kate Swade and Mark Walton how organizations develop legal, robust policies that share power while balancing organizational, collective, and individual needs in this interview episode.

7. 

   29 May 2025

   Episode 5: The Heart

   Farzana Khan of Healing Justice London discusses bringing your whole self to work and the real work that needs to be done with hosts Kate Swade and Mark Walton, exploring thriving in systems change in this interview.

8. 

   22 May 2025

   Episode 4: The Spirit

   How do we create the culture within an organisation? What does it mean to be able to bring your whole self to work… and who gets to do it? In this fourth episode of Corporate Bodies, Kate and Mark explore organisational culture, the psychological conditions that enable us to show up fully at work, how professionalism is coded in terms of race, sex and gender, and who gets to feel safe in the workspace. They also interview Immy Kaur (https://www.linkedin.com/in/immykaur/), Co-Founder and Director at CIVIC SQUARE (https://civicsquare.cc/), who talks about the challenges of creating a socially just organisation, balancing the desire to build a good workplace with the need to deliver the work, and the personal impacts of navigating racialised and gendered perceptions of competence and accountability. Resources: Find more about the origins of the idea of bringing our whole selves to work here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/corporate-bodies-or-corporate-selves). Find out more about the history of employment contracts here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/always-read-the-fine-print). Read the article accompanying the episode here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/can-we-make-work-safe). Articles, organisations and resources referenced during this episode: CIVIC SQUARE (https://civicsquare.cc/) TedX Brum (https://www.ted.com/tedx/events/12748) Indy Johar (https://www.linkedin.com/in/indy-johar-b440b010/) Project 00 (https://www.project00.cc/) Dark Matter Labs (https://darkmatterlabs.org/) Annette Dhami (https://www.linkedin.com/in/annette-dhami-1735554a/) Beyond the Rules (https://darkmatterlabs.notion.site/Beyond-the-Rules-19e692bf98f54b44971ca34700e246fd) Contract-ing Between the Rules: Employment contracts (https://darkmatterlabs.notion.site/Contract-ing-Between-the-Rules-Employment-contracts-a6a967f1f78f4f3f9aef4c1ab6f8cc9a) Grace Lee Boggs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Lee_Boggs) Dr Gabor Maté (https://drgabormate.com/) Farzana Khan (https://healingjusticeldn.org/team/farzana-khan/) Staci Haines (https://www.stacihaines.com/) Shared Assets (https://www.sharedassets.org.uk/) We Can Make (https://wecanmake.org/) Portland Inn Project (https://www.theportlandinnproject.com/) East Marsh United (https://eastmarshunited.org/) Land In Our Names (https://landinournames.community/) MAIA Group (https://www.maiagroup.co/) Dark Matter Labs FreeHouse (https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/freehouse-tkaronto-4e6c2d27967a) Centre for Indigenous Innovation and Technology (https://ciit.io/) Follow us: at … or wherever you get your podcasts. Email us: at corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) Presenters: Kate Swade (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-swade/) (she/her), independent organisational development and governance consultant Mark Walton (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-walton-9b2aa023/) (he/him), Founder and Director, Shared Assets Interviewee: Immy Kaur (https://www.linkedin.com/in/immykaur/) (she/her), Co-Founder & Director, CIVIC SQUARE (https://civicsquare.cc/) Editor: Katie Revell (https://katierevell.com/) (she/her) Artwork: Hanna Norberg-Williams (https://hannanorbergwilliams.myportfolio.com/home) (they/them) Music: fête beat (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/huit-moments-avec-jean/fete-beat/) by Jean Toba (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/) Supporters: The series is supported by the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP), which is a cutting edge research organisation based at the University of Surrey. CUSP explores the question: What does prosperity mean in a world of environmental, social, and economic limits? For more details, visit cusp.ac.uk (http://cusp.ac.uk). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

9. 

   15 May 2025

   Episode 3: Creating the Body

   What happens when you accept an employment contract? What are the unspoken and unexamined things that happen when a new person is recruited into an organisation? In this third episode of Corporate Bodies, Mark and Kate explore the feudal history of employment contracting, and how that plays out in working cultures today. They are joined by Liam Barrington-Bush, the founder of RadHR.org (http://radhr.org), to explore the challenges and dangers of not looking closely enough at how we welcome new people into companies. In a wide ranging conversation, they cover the problems with traditional recruitment processes, the optimum size of organisations, and the “exponential complexity” of bringing new people into a team. They talk about the impact of practices from social movement spaces becoming more mainstream, and it’s important to consider power when thinking about new ways of working. The conversation includes some practical steps organisations can take today as well as some larger and more challenging provocations. Resources: RadHR.org (http://radhr.org) is a wonderful repository of HR policies and includes lots of very useful guides. Read more about the history of employment contracting here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/always-read-the-fine-print), and about the development of thinking about organisations as machines here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/the-potato-king-and-the-mechanical). Read the article accompanying the episode here (https://open.substack.com/pub/corporatebodies/p/from-servitude-to-stewardship?r=1iays&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true). Liam mentions the work of Maslaha (https://www.maslaha.org/) and Transforming Together (https://www.wearetransformingtogether.com/) around Radical Safeguarding. (https://www.maslaha.org/project/radical-safeguarding) Liam wrote a great book called Anarchists in the Boardroom which you can read here (https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/liam-barrington-bush-anarchists-in-the-boardroom). Follow us: at … or wherever you get your podcasts. Email us: at corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) Presenters: Kate Swade (she/her), independent organisational development and governance consultant Mark Walton (he/him), Founder and Director, Shared Assets Interviewee: Liam Barrington-Bush (https://www.instagram.com/liambarringtonbush/?hl=en) (he/him), Director, RadHR (https://radhr.org/) Editor: Katie Revell (https://katierevell.com/) (she/her) Artwork: Hanna Norberg-Williams (https://hannanorbergwilliams.myportfolio.com/home) (they/them) Music: fête beat (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/huit-moments-avec-jean/fete-beat/) by Jean Toba (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/) Supporters: The series is supported by the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP), which is a cutting edge research organisation based at the University of Surrey. CUSP explores the question: What does prosperity mean in a world of environmental, social, and economic limits? For more details, visit cusp.ac.uk (http://cusp.ac.uk). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

10. 

    8 May 2025

    Episode 2: The Head and Brain

    How do decisions get made in an organisation? Who has power and control – and are they the same people who bear the consequences of their decisions? In this second episode of Corporate Bodies, we explore governance and limited liability – a form of legal protection for shareholders and owners of companies that prevents individuals from being held personally responsible for their company's debts or financial losses. Limited liability is something Kate and Mark previously identified as one of the “original sins” that impacts the way we run companies today. Here, they talk about their own experience of how power shifted at Shared Assets in a moment of crisis. They also interview Sarah McAdam, a Co-Steward at the Transformational Governance Collective, who talks about how we can take a much wider view of governance, what healthy power looks like, how we can distribute power more widely in organisations, and whether we should be able to consent to giving and receiving power. Resources: Find more on the original sins here – incorporation (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-incorporation), limited liability (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-limited-liability), legal personhood (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-incorporation-ed1) and employment contracting (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/always-read-the-fine-print). Read the article accompanying the episode here (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/draft-power-is-a-consent-issue). Articles and resources referenced in this episode: #BeyondtheRules — Balanced governance and ‘behaving well’ everywhere, every day (https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-balanced-governance-and-behaving-well-everywhere-every-day-5aa852b4843e): Annette Dhami, Thomas Theodore and Himanshu Rohilla, Dark Matter Labs (https://darkmatterlabs.org/) Transformational Governance Collective (https://www.linkedin.com/company/transformational-governance-stewarding-group/posts/?feedView=all) The Wheel of Consent (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-wisdom-of-anger/202408/boundaries-and-the-wheel-of-consent) Université du Nous (https://universite-du-nous.org/en_GB/) Shared Assets (https://www.sharedassets.org.uk/)’ draft Leadership Manifesto (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JrQhvBmbQM03XFuygbzWruASttAwaSeipz211a9mHxk/edit?usp=sharing) Follow us: at … or wherever you get your podcasts. Email us: at corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) Presenters: Kate Swade (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-swade/) (she/her), independent organisational development and governance consultant Mark Walton (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-walton-9b2aa023/) (he/him), Founder and Director, Shared Assets Interviewee: Sarah McAdam (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-mcadam-01566217/) (she/her), Co-Steward, Transformational Governance Collective (https://www.linkedin.com/company/transformational-governance-stewarding-group/posts/?feedView=all) Editor: Katie Revell (https://katierevell.com/) (she/her) Artwork: Hanna Norberg-Williams (https://hannanorbergwilliams.myportfolio.com/home) (they/them) Music: fête beat (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/huit-moments-avec-jean/fete-beat/) by Jean Toba (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/) Supporters: The series is supported by the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP), which is a cutting edge research organisation based at the University of Surrey. CUSP explores the question: What does prosperity mean in a world of environmental, social, and economic limits? For more details, visit cusp.ac.uk (http://cusp.ac.uk). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

11. 

    1 May 2025

    Episode 1: Birth

    What does it mean to set up an organisation? In this first episode of Corporate Bodies, we explore incorporation – the creation of the corporate body – and we hear from Mark Walton and Kate Swade about who they are, and why they are embarking on this inquiry together. Kate and Mark both started this investigation with the assumption that the company – as a legal vehicle for collective action – is a useful tool for getting things done, and that there are some unexamined things, deep in its DNA, which contribute to some of the weirdnesses that play out in working life today. They also both have a pragmatic interest in creating nice and healthy places to work! In this episode, they talk about what they see as some of the original sins of companies, and why they think delving into history is important for creating healthy working cultures today. Across this series, they speak to ten brilliant people. In this episode, you’ll hear from each of them about their experiences and perspectives on setting up new ventures. Resources: Find more on the original sins here – incorporation (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-incorporation), limited liability (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-limited-liability), legal personhood (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/original-sins-incorporation-ed1) and employment contracting (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/p/always-read-the-fine-print). Read the article accompanying the episode here (https://open.substack.com/pub/corporatebodies/p/how-does-an-idea-become-an-organisation?r=1iays&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true). Some of the interviewees mention particular work: Immy mentions Dark Matter Labs and their work on employment contracts (https://darkmatterlabs.org/feed/beyond-the-rules), and Open Systems Lab’s work on a new land contract (https://medium.com/open-systems-lab/a-new-land-contract-684c3ba1f1b3). Farzana mentions Platform London, (https://platformlondon.org/)the organisation that hosted Healing Justice London. She also mentions Panthea Lee’s work on the importance of “minding the boring details” (https://panthealee.medium.com/on-stewarding-love-liberation-1ccad3b69486) when setting things up (and much more!). Sarah talks about an amazing experience with the team at Université du Nous (https://universite-du-nous.org/en_GB/). Follow us: at … or wherever you get your podcasts. Email us: at corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) Presenters: Kate Swade (she/her), independent organisational development and governance consultant Mark Walton (he/him), Founder and Director, Shared Assets Interviewees (in order of appearance): Mark Simmonds (https://www.linkedin.com/in/markculture/) (he/him), Co-operative and Community Business Advisor, Co-op Culture (https://www.culture.coop/) Abbie Kempson (https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbie-kempson-35b572140/) (she/her), Co-operative Member, People Support Coop (https://peoplesupport.coop/) Louise Armstrong (https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-armstrong-83143128/) (she/her), Co-Founder, The Decelerator (https://decelerator.org.uk/) Esther Foreman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherforeman/) (she/her), CEO, The Social Change Nest (https://thesocialchangenest.org/) Zahra Davidson (https://www.linkedin.com/in/zahra-davidson-84710920/) (she/her), Non-Exec Director & Associate, Huddlecraft (https://www.huddlecraft.com/) Liam Barrington-Bush (https://www.instagram.com/liambarringtonbush/) (he/him), Co-Director, RadHR (https://radhr.org/) Immy Kaur (https://www.linkedin.com/in/immykaur/) (she/her), Co-Founder & Director, CIVIC SQUARE (https://civicsquare.cc/) Farzana Khan (https://www.linkedin.com/in/farzana-khan-31279b174/) (she/her), Executive Co-Director, Healing Justice Ldn (https://healingjusticeldn.org/) Sarah McAdam (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-mcadam-01566217/) (she/her), Co-Steward, Transformational Governance Collective (https://www.linkedin.com/company/transformational-governance-stewarding-group/posts/?feedView=all) Editor: Katie Revell (https://katierevell.com/) (she/her) Artwork: Hanna Norberg-Williams (https://hannanorbergwilliams.myportfolio.com/home) (they/them) Music: fête beat (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/huit-moments-avec-jean/fete-beat/) by Jean Toba (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/jean-toba/) Supporters: The series is supported by the Centre for the Understanding of Sustainable Prosperity (CUSP), which is a cutting edge research organisation based at the University of Surrey. CUSP explores the question: What does prosperity mean in a world of environmental, social, and economic limits? For more details, visit cusp.ac.uk (http://cusp.ac.uk). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

12. 

    22 Apr 2025

    Corporate Bodies podcast: coming soon!

    Most of us have worked in companies at some point in our lives, and know one thing for sure: working life is odd. The dynamics are messy, the hierarchies are often unjust and, when things go wrong, people start acting very strangely indeed. Corporate Bodies is a podcast series asking: why are organisations so weird? And what can we do to make them better? Across 11 episodes, organisational development practitioners Kate Swade and Mark Walton set out to explore how one core concept – that companies are legal people – impacts on the whole lifecycle of an organisation, and on everyone who works for it. In each episode, Kate and Mark explore a different aspect of organisational development with the help of a range of contributors, each with their own unique lived experience of organisational weirdness. Follow us: https://corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com/) Email us: corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com (mailto:corporatebodiespodcast@gmail.com) Leave us a voicenote: https://www.speakpipe.com/CorporateBodies (https://www.speakpipe.com/CorporateBodies) Presenters: Kate Swade (she/her), independent organisational development and governance consultant Mark Walton (he/him), Founder and Director, Shared Assets (https://www.sharedassets.org.uk/) Contributors: Liam Barrington-Bush (he/him), Director, RadHR (https://radhr.org/) Immy Kaur (https://www.linkedin.com/in/immykaur/) (she/her), Co-Founder & Director, CIVIC SQUARE (https://civicsquare.cc/) Daniel Ford (https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-ford-9726925a/) (he/him), Co-Director, Huddlecraft (https://www.huddlecraft.com/) Farzana Khan (https://www.linkedin.com/in/farzana-khan-31279b174/) (she/her), Executive Co-Director, Healing Justice Ldn (https://healingjusticeldn.org/) Abbie Kempson (https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbie-kempson-35b572140/) (she/her), Co-operative Member, People Support Coop (https://peoplesupport.coop/) Esther Foreman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherforeman/) (she/her), CEO, The Social Change Nest (https://thesocialchangenest.org/) Sarah McAdam (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-mcadam-01566217/) (she/her), Co-Steward, Transformational Governance Collective (https://www.linkedin.com/company/transformational-governance-stewarding-group/posts/?feedView=all) Editor: Katie Revell (https://katierevell.com/) (she/her) Artwork: Hanna Norberg-Williams (https://hannanorbergwilliams.myportfolio.com/home) (they/them) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit corporatebodies.substack.com (https://corporatebodies.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

Who has been a guest on Corporate Bodies

Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.

• Esther Foreman
• Louise Armstrong
• Mark Simmonds
• Abbie Kempson
• Farzana Khan

Podcast Authority Score: 7 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

15

Social presence

0

YouTube

0

Engagement

0

Contact Corporate Bodies

Guest appearances

Does not typically book guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.