Crossing the Tideline

About Crossing the Tideline

In 2023, Brett Burcher had a close encounter with a Great White Shark while surfing at his local beach in Forster, NSW. The entire incident was captured on drone, in clear blue water, from directly above. He was a new father with a three month old daughter at the time. That moment became the catalyst for Crossing the Tideline, a podcast sitting right at the line where certainty gives way to unpredictability, and where most of us, despite the risks, keep choosing to step in. Right now it has never been a more complex time to be an ocean user in Australia. Sightings, encounters and near misses are common. Conflicting theories, limited data, sensationalism and reactionary commentary leave coastal communities feeling confused, scared and frustrated. The car park chats are happening everywhere. This podcast is a series of those conversations, with people who occupy those same car parks but who also spend a lot of time learning, researching, responding to and living with shark related risk. Brett speaks with shark attack survivors, families of fatal attack victims, scientists, conservationists, first responders, policymakers, First Nations custodians, swimmers, surfers, mitigation experts and community members from a range of countries, coastlines and communities. The goal is simple. Better information, clearer thinking, calmer responses. So we can all make more informed decisions in and around the ocean. Crossing the Tideline is also a companion to an observational documentary of the same name, currently in production with Stitch Films & Regen Studios. Distributed by Madman Entertainment.

Publisher

Brett Burcher

Category

education · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

17 May 2026

Latest episode

11 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

18 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   11 Oct 2026

   E17 | Tiger Sharks 101 | Dr Paul Butcher | Crossing the Tideline

   Hey everyone, welcome to Crossing The Tideline podcast, Brett Burcher here. The word “shark” is often used to describe a broad range of species, but that can overlook some significant differences. Great whites, bull sharks and tiger sharks have different biology, behaviours, movements, diets and population dynamics and those differences matter when we’re talking about how they interact with people and the environments they share. These three species have been highlighted because they are the species most commonly associated with serious interactions with humans in areas where sharks and people overlap. Understanding why that may be, and what makes each species different, is part of understanding the broader picture. For this series of three episodes, we’re taking a closer look at each of these 3 species individually. Each episode is essentially a 101 on the species in focus, covering biology and behaviour, population, growth and recovery, shark encounters and attacks, mitigation, what comes next, and some of the bigger questions surrounding each species. This is the Tiger shark episode and the final episode in this little mini series. The Great white and Bull shark episodes are already in the library. The aim is to build a better understanding of the individual species, rather than grouping everything together under the word “shark”. It then becomes easier to understand the differences between species and add a bit more context to the information, research and conversations that surround them. All 3 episodes are recorded with Dr Paul Butcher, a Principal Research Scientist with NSW Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development (Fisheries), based in Coffs Harbour. Paul is a leading marine researcher who has spent years working across shark research and management in NSW, including the NSW Government’s Shark Management Strategy, shark tagging programs, SMART drumlines and research into post-release fish survival. If you have any pressing questions from any of the following eps, please comment or DM through as Paul has generously offered to do an ep dedicated to audience questions once the 3 eps have been aired. These eps were recorded during August and September, 2026.

2. 

   4 Oct 2026

   Ep16 | Bull Sharks 101 | Dr Paul Butcher DPI | Crossing the Tideline

   The word “shark” is often used to describe a broad range of species, but that can overlook some significant differences. Great whites, bull sharks and tiger sharks have different biology, behaviours, movements, diets and population dynamics and those differences matter when we’re talking about how they interact with people and the environments they share. These three species have been highlighted because they are the species most commonly associated with serious interactions with humans in areas where sharks and people overlap. Understanding why that may be, and what makes each species different, is part of understanding the broader picture. For this series of three episodes, we’re taking a closer look at each of these 3 species individually. Each episode is essentially a 101 on the species in focus, covering biology and behaviour, population, growth and recovery, shark encounters and attacks, mitigation, what comes next, and some of the bigger questions surrounding each species. This is the Bull shark episode and the second episode in this little mini series. The Great white ep is already in the library and the tiger shark ep will drop in the coming weeks. The aim is to build a better understanding of the individual species, rather than grouping everything together under the word “shark”. It then becomes easier to understand the differences between species and add a bit more context to the information, research and conversations that surround them. All 3 episodes are recorded with Dr Paul Butcher, a Principal Research Scientist with NSW Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development (Fisheries), based in Coffs Harbour. Paul is a leading marine researcher who has spent years working across shark research and management in NSW, including the NSW Government’s Shark Management Strategy, shark tagging programs, SMART drumlines and research into post-release fish survival. If you have any pressing questions from any of the following eps, please comment or DM through as Paul has generously offered to do an ep dedicated to audience questions once the 3 eps have been aired. These eps were recorded during August and September, 2026.

3. 

   27 Sept 2026

   Ep15 | Great White Sharks 101 | Dr Paul Butcher | Crossing the Tideline

   The word shark is often used to describe a broad range of species, but that can overlook some significant differences. Great whites, bull sharks and tiger sharks have different biology, behaviours, movements, diets and population dynamics. Those differences matter when we're talking about how they interact with people and the environments they share. This is a three part mini-series taking a closer look at each species individually, recorded with Dr Paul Butcher, Principal Research Scientist with the NSW Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development, based in Coffs Harbour. Paul has spent years leading shark research and management in NSW, including the government's Shark Management Strategy, shark tagging programs, SMART drumlines and post-release survival research. Each episode is a 101 on the species in focus. This is the Great White episode and the first of the three. We cover population estimates and what stable actually means scientifically, why the current range of 1,500 to 4,200 animals leaves so much room for uncertainty and what the whole genome sequencing work currently underway will tell us for the first time about historical baselines. Paul also walks through the annual east coast migration, how white sharks move from Tasmanian and Victorian waters northward each year, what draws them inshore and what the drone footage from tens of thousands of hours actually shows about their behaviour around humans. We get into what happens at the scene of a shark bite, how species and size are identified from a bite imprint, whether genetic swabbing could one day identify repeat individuals, and what the data from SMART drumlines is actually telling researchers about movement and behaviour post-capture. Paul also addresses directly whether there is evidence that Great Whites are becoming more confident near coastlines, what role whale presence plays in their inshore behaviour and why the last few metres of a predatory approach happen entirely blind. If you have questions after listening to any of the three episodes, Paul has offered to record a dedicated Q and A episode once all three have aired. Send questions through via DM or comment.

4. 

   12 Sept 2026

   Ep 14 | ProGuarding: Aaron Graham & Paddy James | Real-World Trauma Training | Crossing the Tideline

   Welcome to Crossing the tideline podcast, Brett Burcher here. In this ep you will Meet Aaron Graham, founder of Proguarding, a company that delivers water safety and medical services to a range of industries. Aaron and his team currently run control Trauma first aid courses across Australia. Ive been to a few of these courses and they are shockingly good. They provide first response style training for life threatening trauma wounds and injuries. They make it so realistic and the info, both the theoretical and practical side of things is so comprehensive, relatable and transferable to all type of situations. The reason I say shockingly good is because after doing the first course, I was quite shocked and disappointed in myself that I did not already have these skills.l. it’s an incredible initiative and Aaron will be chatting us through everything we need to know about these courses. We will also hear from Paddy James, who facilitates the courses. His experience in emergency situations is so noticeable when you partake in the course. Paddy certainly doesnt fuck around and he gives us some expert tips on what to do if we find ourselves first on scene to a traumatic injury. Quick little note before we roll in, I need to clarify the timeline when Aaron is sharing the story of Barney the shark spotter in the opening minutes of the chat. The numbers are from 14 days of shark spotting, not a years worth. Astounding stat. Not much got past Barney It would seem. This chat was recorded at 3pm on March 5th 2026.

5. 

   30 Aug 2026

   Ep 13 | Lucas & Matt - Surfing NSW | Government Funding & Shark Safety | Crossing the Tideline

   Lucas Townsend is the CEO of Surfing NSW and has been in the rooms where funding decisions are being made. A Northern Beaches local himself, he understands what communities have been living through and has been pushing for surfer representation at a government level through one of the most active periods of shark activity NSW has seen. Matt Lawson is the man on the ground. He has spent years running shark awareness and education programs up and down the NSW coast and has been in communities in the aftermath of shark incidents to offer support and assistance. He has seen more of this than most. Together they give a clear picture of what Surfing NSW actually does, which is a lot more than most people realise. Drone operator training, state government advocacy, safety innovation, community education and being present when things go wrong. Everyone who uses the NSW coastline is a beneficiary of their work in some way. The shark awareness courses run by Proguarding, which feature in a separate episode, have been promoted and rolled out through Surfing NSW and are now a fixture at events across the state. Two people who genuinely care about surfers, surfing and anyone entering the water. Worth hearing from both.

6. 

   16 Aug 2026

   Ep 12 | Anna Breytenbach | Interspecies Communication & Shark Intelligence | Crossing the Tideline

   Anna Breytenbach is a South African interspecies communicator. That means she communicates with animals, not through behaviour observation or science, but through direct energetic exchange. She has worked with big cats, elephants, wolves and wild predators across the world. She has also communicated with Great White Sharks. Brett came across Anna on the Telepathy Tapes podcast, then a friend sent him a video of her speaking about shark human interactions at the Byron Bay lighthouse, filmed just after the cluster of Great White incidents there in 2015. The questions it raised wouldn't leave him alone. If we could talk to Great Whites, what would they tell us? Do they sense us? Do they want to harm us? What role do any of us play in this? This conversation goes to those questions directly. Anna shares what Great Whites have communicated to her about why they approach humans, what they make of us as a species, how shark nets and culling programs register to them, and what they would ask of us if they could. She also talks about species survival syndrome, the orca pair hunting Great Whites off Cape Town, and the Aboriginal increase site practices that parallel so much of what this podcast has been circling. The conversation also gets personal. Brett opens up about the conflict between wanting to reach a place of peace in the water and the reality of hyper vigilance that trauma leaves behind. Anna's response to that is one of the most useful things said in the series so far.

7. 

   2 Aug 2026

   Ep 11 | Dr Riley Elliot | NZ Shark Tracker | Crossing the Tideline

   Dr Riley Elliott is one of the world's leading shark scientists. Before that he was, and still is, a surfer and diver from New Zealand trying to understand the animals he shared the ocean with. That curiosity has taken him around the world studying Great White Sharks, tracking their movements, producing documentaries and trying to communicate the science to people who actually need it. In this conversation we get into the migration of Great Whites between New Zealand and Australia, what decades of research is beginning to reveal, and why there are still so many questions that science can't confidently answer. Riley talks about how Great Whites navigate vast stretches of open ocean and why understanding their movements matters for both conservation and public safety. We also spend a lot of time on mitigation. Drones, electronic deterrents, shark nets, public perception and political decision making. Riley speaks openly about what appears to be working, what isn't, and why he thinks the uncertainty needs to be spoken about more honestly than it currently is. He also understands what shark incidents do to communities firsthand, having visited Elliston in South Australia and worked around several fatalities in New Zealand. And in a world first, he tells us what actually had a nibble of Ed Sloane's foot at the 2026 Raglan WCT event.

8. 

   19 Jul 2026

   Ep 10 | Michael Hoarau | Reunion Island: Bull Sharks, Bans & Lethal Measures | Crossing the Tideline

   Between 2011 and 2019, Reunion Island experienced 30 shark attacks, 11 of them fatal. Bull sharks were responsible for 90% of them, on a small French island of 900,000 people in the Indian Ocean, in the most popular tourist and surfing areas on the west coast. For a place that small, it was unfathomable to live through. Michael Hoarau runs operations for the Shark Safety Unit on Reunion Island and has spent years deep in the data, the fieldwork and the politics of trying to reduce shark encounters in the aftermath of those years. Reunion is regularly referenced internationally as a benchmark for shark risk management. With Bull shark activity surging along the east coast of Australia this year, particularly in Sydney, it felt like the right time to have this conversation. Michael walks us through what those years actually felt like on the island, the community divisions that opened up and why nobody could ever agree on what caused the spike in the first place. He explains what the French government put in place, including a permanent ban on surfing and swimming outside the lagoon, the world's first large scale exclusion net trials, and a shark control program using smart drum lines that has now run for 12 years. The numbers are striking. In 2016 alone, 52 bull sharks were caught on the drum lines in targeted areas. That same effort now yields an average of four or five bull sharks a year. There has not been a single shark attack on Reunion Island since May 2019. The back half of the conversation goes deep on the balance between lethal and non lethal measures, what the shark control program has actually taught them about bull shark behaviour and why Michael says the answer is never one thing.

9. 

   6 Jul 2026

   Ep 9 | Carl Musker | Surfers, Shark Data & the Fight for a Seat at the Table | Crossing the Tideline

   This episode I'm joined by Carl Musker from Sydney's Northern Beaches, one of the most shark-active stretches of coastline in the world right now. A Long Reef Boardriders member for more than 30 years, Carl is part of an alliance of surfers and community members who are pushing for stronger government action on shark mitigation. Carl is also a close friend of the Psilakis family and was surfing at Long Reef with Mercury on the morning he was fatally attacked. In this conversation, Carl explains why he believes surfers and others who frequent the ocean need to be listened to when it comes to government decision-making around shark management. He's been in council chambers, in meetings with local members, and alongside the Psilakis family at state government level and also helped build a simple community shark sighting and interaction logbook that has recorded over 100 engagements in its first four weeks. In this conversation Carl talks about what the community has been living through and the anxiety that's become part of everyday life on Sydney's Northern Beaches. The car park conversations about shark activity, beach closures, human safety and the lengths people are now going to just to feel comfortable entering the water. This chat with Carl was recorded on the 25th of April. This episode also features short contributions from Lucas Townsend from Surfing NSW on recent government drone funding announcements, filmmaker and surfer Will Sommerville on what it's felt like in the water lately and local business owner Matt Grainger on how the activity is hitting the community economically. Carl also recorded a message this week with an update on what's changed since we spoke.

10. 

    25 Jun 2026

    Ep 8 | Katie Thompson | Grief, Loss & Life After a Fatal Shark Attack | Crossing the Tideline

    On Father's Day, September 5 2021, Tim Thompson was fatally attacked by a shark while surfing at Shelley Beach, Emerald Beach near Coffs Harbour. He was 31 years old. His partner Katie Thompson was at home, eight months pregnant with their daughter Elka. She found out through a link to an ABC news article her mum sent her. Katie talks about the morning Tim died, an ordinary Sunday they had spent at home talking about how different the following Father's Day would be. How the news reached her. What the first weeks looked like when the logistics of death gave her something to do, and what happened when they stopped. Raising a newborn alone while carrying grief that nobody around her had a reference point for. Writing letters to Tim and to Elka because she couldn't find a single resource that spoke to what she was going through. And how five years on, she has moved from surviving to something that feels closer to thriving, even as she watches Elka begin to grapple with growing up without her dad. Katie also speaks about the media handling of Tim's death, the Bite Club community and why she eventually decided to share her story publicly. Support a shark deterrant rebate in NSW. https://jyem13.github.io/nsw-shark-rebate/ (https://jyem13.github.io/nsw-shark-rebate/)

11. 

    14 Jun 2026

    Ep 7 | Dan Webber | What the Science Isn't Telling You | Crossing the Tideline

    Dan Webber is a journalist, surfer and longtime observer of the shark debate in Australia. He was in the water for two shark attacks during the Ballina cluster of 2014 and 2015, a two year period that saw twelve incidents across a 70km stretch of coastline between Evans Head and Byron Bay. Out of that experience he built the Ballina Shark Reports page, a real time community sighting tool that was running one shark report per day at its peak before the local mayor asked him to take it down. In the decade since, Dan has gone deep on the research. He's spoken at a Senate inquiry, written multiple academic pieces on shark mitigation technology, and contributed a chapter to an international book on the subject. His work sits in the top 1% of shark related articles on ResearchGate. He is not aligned with the mainstream scientific consensus on a number of issues, and he does not shy away from saying so. This conversation covers what it was actually like inside a community living through a cluster of attacks. How the media arrived, how the fear spread, and how a small group of surfers quietly kept paddling out and looking after each other. We also get into his views on shark nets and why he supports them when most others don't, his deep skepticism of smart drum lines, his theory on bold versus shy shark personalities, and his pointed criticism of what he sees as ideologically driven science that shapes policy in ways that don't serve ocean users.

12. 

    14 Jun 2026

    Ep 6 | Senator Surfer | Shark Policy, Deterrents & Government Responsibility | Crossing the Tideline

    Senator Peter Whish-Wilson has spent 14 years in Australian politics fighting for ocean and environmental protection. He's also a surfer and diver who uses deterrence himself, has had his own unannounced Great White encounters off the Tasmanian coast, and made the trip out to the Neptune Islands to observe deterrent testing firsthand. He's stepping away from the Senate mid-2026, and this conversation catches him at a moment of genuine reflection. Pete doesn't sit comfortably on either side of the debate and that's what makes him worth listening to. We get into why he thinks drum lines and shark nets give communities a false sense of security rather than actual protection. Why the genetic data on adult white shark populations doesn't necessarily line up with what people are feeling in the water. And why he believes both the fear and the frustration in coastal communities are completely rational, even when the policy responses aren't. We also talk about what governments can and can't realistically be asked to do, the difference between risk and perception of risk, and what he thinks ocean users themselves need to take more ownership of. He also shares a story from diving with Great Whites off South Africa that shifted something in how he sees them. Hard to explain. Worth hearing. A conversation that goes a lot of places. One of the more honest takes on the political side of all this I've had so far.

13. 

    1 Jun 2026

    Ep 5 | Easkey Britton | Water, Healing & Our Relationship with the Ocean | Crossing the Tideline

    Easkey Britton is an Irish surfer, marine social scientist, writer and ocean advocate who has spent her life studying the relationship between people and water. Born into a surfing family on the northwest coast of Ireland, she competed internationally from the age of twelve and has spent the decades since trying to understand what the ocean does to us, and for us, and what we owe it in return. This one is different to the others in the series. Sharks barely get a mention. But water is where people and sharks find each other, and Easkey has a way of talking about that relationship that gets to something the science and statistics rarely reach. We talk about what it means to have your identity shaped by the ocean, and what happens when that connection gets broken. The healing properties of water, physically and psychologically, and why restoring that relationship after trauma is not something you can think your way through. The complexity of holding love for the ocean alongside genuine fear of it. And why our culture's tendency to want black and white answers makes all of this so much harder than it needs to be. Brett also opens up about where he is in his own process of rebuilding trust with the water, and what Easkey's books Salt Water in the Blood and Ebb and Flow have given him during that. A slower, more reflective conversation. One that sits in the questions rather than rushing toward answers.

14. 

    27 May 2026

    An Introduction to Crossing the Tideline

    In 2023, Brett Burcher had a close encounter with a Great White Shark while surfing at his local beach in Forster, NSW. The entire incident was captured on drone, in clear blue water, from directly above. He was a new father with a three month old daughter at home. That moment became the catalyst for Crossing the Tideline, a podcast sitting right at the line where certainty gives way to unpredictability, and where most of us, despite the risks, keep choosing to step in. Right now it has never been a more complex time to be an ocean user in Australia. Sightings, encounters and near misses are common. Conflicting theories, limited data, sensationalism and reactionary commentary leave coastal communities feeling confused, scared and frustrated. The car park chats are happening everywhere. This podcast is a series of those conversations, with people who occupy those same car parks but who also spend a lot of time learning, researching, responding to and living with shark related risk. Brett speaks with shark attack survivors, families of fatal attack victims, scientists, conservationists, first responders, policymakers, First Nations custodians, swimmers, surfers, mitigation experts and community members from a range of countries, coastlines and communities. The goal is simple. Better information, clearer thinking, calmer responses. So we can all make more informed decisions in and around the ocean. Crossing the Tideline is also a companion to an observational documentary of the same name, currently in production with Stitch Films & Regen Studios. Distributed by Madman Entertainment.

15. 

    19 May 2026

    Ep 4 | Prof. Charlie Huveneers | Shark Deterrents, Population Debate & Risk | Crossing the Tideline

    Charlie Huveneers is a researcher and lecturer at Flinders University in South Australia, and one of the leading names in shark bite mitigation science in this country. For close to 20 years his team has been doing the fieldwork that most people only read about, testing deterrents on live sharks, studying Great White behaviour and trying to answer the questions that coastal communities are actually asking. This one gets into the practical stuff. We go through what the research actually shows on electric deterrents, how effective they are, how they were tested and what their limitations are. We also get into the population debate, what the data can and cannot tell us about whether Great White numbers are increasing, why those big discrepancies in population estimates exist, and why Charlie himself has grown to distrust the blanket statistics often used to reassure the public. That last point stuck with me. Here is someone who has spent two decades in this field, and he openly says the stats can be misleading and are not helpful for people who are in the water regularly in high risk areas. That felt important to hear from someone in his position. We also cover species management, the gap between what science knows and what gets communicated to ocean users, and what he thinks still needs to happen before we are anywhere near a real solution. No silver bullet yet. But a much clearer picture of where things actually stand.

16. 

    18 May 2026

    Ep 3 | Brinkley Davies | Shark Conservation and Communities | Crossing the Tideline

    Brinkley Davies grew up surfing the Yorke Peninsula and the West Coast of South Australia, two coastlines that have had more than their share of shark encounters, fatalities included. She is also a marine biologist, conservationist and diver who has spent years working alongside Great Whites, including three years on the cage diving boats out of Port Lincoln. That combination makes for a rare kind of conversation. Brinkley doesn't sit neatly on either side of the debate, and that's what makes her perspective so valuable. We talk about what it was like growing up surfing in SA when shark presence was just part of the deal, what she observed working that closely with Great Whites, the difference between surfing and diving in terms of how you read risk, and the environmental factors driving more frequent encounters along the SA and WA coasts. We also get into the mental health toll on coastal communities after clusters of attacks, what she saw happen to the people around Streaky Bay and Yorke Peninsula in recent years, the gap between what the data says and what people are actually feeling, and why better risk communication at a community level is something she feels strongly about. One of the more layered conversations in this series.

17. 

    18 May 2026

    Ep 2 | Dave Rastovich | Fear, Solitude & Reading the Ocean | Crossing the Tideline

    Dave Rastovich has spent more time in the ocean than most people spend indoors. A lifetime of surfing remote coastlines, alone, in all conditions, has given him a way of reading the water that is intuitive and deliberate. He has had to reckon with his own fear, now watching his son find his feet at the same breaks where he found his. This conversation goes to places I didn't expect. We talk about the tension between seeking solitude in the water and the vulnerability that comes with it. How Dave navigates fear and scenario building in his head when he's out there alone. The difference between a gut feeling and a spiral. And how reading the ocean, dolphins, fish activity, the mood of the water, becomes its own form of risk assessment. Dave also shares a couple of wild shark encounters of his own, including a close pass from a very large Great White at Broken Head that's hard to forget once you hear it. This one's about what it means to stay present in an environment that will always have the upper hand.

18. 

    17 May 2026

    Ep 1 | Dr Chris Lowe - Shark Lab CSULB | Shark Behaviour, Science and Risk | Crossing the Tideline

    For over 27 years, Dr Chris Lowe has been studying Great White Sharks on the beaches of California - one of the most densely populated coastlines in the world. As director of the Shark Lab at Cal State Long Beach, his team uses drones, acoustic tagging and underwater cameras to track juvenile white sharks that spend their days metres from swimmers, mostly unnoticed. What they've found might surprise you. Sharks and people are sharing the water far more often than anyone realised, and bites remain extraordinarily rare. Brett sits down with Chris to unpack what the data actually shows: why juvenile whites behave the way they do, how California manages shark presence on public beaches, what research into shark hearing tells us about why attacks are so infrequent, and what Australia might learn from a system that has been doing this longer than anyone. It's a conversation that raises as many questions as it answers, and that's the point.

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

1 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

15 ratings

Contact Crossing the Tideline

Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.

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