Curiouser & Curiouser is a podcast for leaders, builders, and curious minds navigating AI, GenAI safety, and governance in a rapidly changing world.
Produced by Alice, the enterprise trust, safety, and security platform for the AI era, the show draws on frontline adversarial intelligence to explore how AI systems are stress-tested, red-teamed, governed, and protected across their lifecycle.
Each episode looks at how AI is actually showing up in the real world, how organizations evaluate it, where it breaks, and what it takes to build systems people can trust.
We cut through hype and fear to explore how AI shapes trust, decision-making, and real-world work, one rabbit hole at a time.
Explore more from Alice:
Website: https://alice.io (https://alice.io)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Alice.io.advance.unafraid (https://www.youtube.com/@Alice.io.advance.unafraid)
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/alice-io (https://linkedin.com/company/alice-io)
X: https://x.com/alice_dot_io (https://x.com/alice_dot_io)
LIVE from Black Hat Las Vegas: AI, Nation-States, and the Battlefield That Keeps Changing
What if the biggest threat to your security team isn't the attacker, it's the model you're relying on to stop them? LIVE from Black Hat Las Vegas, Mo and Madi bring together two cybersecurity authors, Caroline Wong, Chief Strategy Officer at Axari and author of The AI Cybersecurity Handbook, and Allie Mellen, Principal Analyst at Forrester and author of Code War, who wrote very different books that turn out to be arguing the same point. One explains why nations attack the way they do. The oth...
27 Jul 2026
Why Your CISO Shouldn't Be the Department of No
What if the person whose entire job is risk was the most excited one in the room about AI? That's Mea Clift. While most CISOs are bracing for what could go wrong, she's leaning in, she calls it being "risk excited," and it flips the whole conversation. She and Mo get into saying yes to AI without letting risk run away from you, how she handles shadow AI without punishing people for being curious, and how she somehow ends up teaching all of this through Marvel and Monsters Inc. 🔗 Podcast: http...
15 Jul 2026
AI in Healthcare: Protecting Patient Data Without Falling Behind
Your doctor's office knows more about you than almost anyone. So what happens when AI gets its hands on all of it? That's Sandy Dunn's whole job as a healthcare CISO, and her answer is calmer than you'd expect, because the threats aren't new, it's the speed and the blast radius that changed. Which is where she and Mo pick it up, getting into HIPAA as a checkbox that protects no one, why synthetic data beats guarding data you never needed, and what AI does to trust in a field that runs on it. ...
30 Jun 2026
The Former Google Cloud CISO's Take on AI, Agents, and What Comes Next
Some guests have seen the field from one seat. Phil Venables has seen it from most of them: CISO at Goldman Sachs, the first CISO for Google Cloud, and now a partner at Ballistic Ventures. So when he says what's worth paying attention to in AI security, it's worth a listen. We get into why he's more worried about attackers scaling up than about the flood of new vulnerabilities, what changes when the actor in your environment is an agent instead of a person, and why the smartest move is still ...
17 Jun 2026
AI in Finance: From Money Laundering to Deepfakes
Mo sits down with Dr. Janet Bastiman, Chief Data Scientist at Napier AI, to talk about why fraud is easier to catch than money laundering, how deepfakes got good enough to fool a finance team out of millions, and why the humans who oversee AI matter more than ever. 🔗 Podcast: https://alice.io/podcast Follow the show so you don’t miss the next episode. New episodes every two weeks. Stay curious.
1 Jun 2026
Afraid AI Will Replace You? Here's the One Skill It Can't
James Villarrubia went from building AI for NASA's drone and aerospace programs to becoming CTO of a travel tech company. In this episode, he and Mo get into why curiosity might be the most important skill in the AI era, what happens to our brains when we stop pushing back on the answers we get, and why the people most resistant to AI might actually be seeing something the rest of us are missing. Guest: James Villurbia, Group CTO, AnyRes.com / Former Head of Digital Innovation & AI @ NASA...
18 May 2026
The Problem With AI Observability Nobody Wants To Admit
In this episode of Curiouser & Curiouser, Mo sits down with Alison Cossette, Founder and CEO of ClariTrace, to talk about why your enterprise AI is moving faster than your visibility into it and what to actually do about it. They get into control native AI, why observability and traceability aren't optional anymore, and what leaders need to put in place before something goes wrong. 🔗 Podcast: https://alice.io/podcast Follow the show so you don’t miss the next episode. New episodes every t...
4 May 2026
What Does It Actually Take to Build Unbiased AI?
Tennisha Martin has five master's degrees, a doctorate in progress, founded one of the most important communities in cybersecurity, and will be the first to tell you that none of it mattered until she stopped trying to do it alone. In this episode, Mo and Tennisha get into AI bias, why the systems being built today are only as good as the people building them, and what it actually takes to break into a field that wasn't designed for everyone. 🔗 Podcast: https://alice.io/podcast Follow the sho...
21 Apr 2026
AI Governance Needs a Dungeon Master
David Wendt spent 30 years building models for Fortune 100 companies before stepping away from the keyboard entirely to focus on AI governance. He also happens to be a Dungeon Master, and it turns out those two things have more in common than you'd think. Mo and David get into red teaming, what good metrics look like in a probabilistic system, why you should probably stop measuring AI and start measuring outcomes, and what we actually owe the workers whose roles are being quietly restru...
6 Apr 2026
Your LLM Has No Idea What It's Doing
Diana Kelley has spent four decades in security watching AI go from a Dartmouth conference to an avalanche. Now CISO at Noma Security, she joins Mo to break down why the LLM is not your guardrail, why agentic AI is exposing hygiene debt you already knew you had, and why misplaced trust in these systems is the real vulnerability. 🔗 Podcast: https://alice.io/podcast Follow the show so you don’t miss the next episode. New episodes every two weeks. Stay curious.
19 Mar 2026
Resilience by Design: Inside Estonia's Digital Nation
Most countries talk about digital trust. Estonia built it into the architecture. Joseph Carson, Chief Security Evangelist and Advisory CISO at Segura, has spent 23 years living through Estonia's digital transformation from the inside. In this episode, he and Mo get into what it actually takes to engineer trust at a national scale, what went wrong along the way, and why the lessons from a small Baltic nation matter more than ever right now. Joseph also previews his talk at RSA Conference 2026,...
9 Mar 2026
Building AI We Can Actually Trust
AI governance sounds straightforward until you try to actually do it. In this episode, Mo talks with Laura Powell, Senior Director of Partnerships at LatticeFlow AI, about the messy reality of building AI systems organizations can actually trust. They discuss translating responsible AI principles into technical controls, why many systems never make it into production, and how teams should think about risk as agentic AI systems become more common. 🔗 Podcast: https://alice.io/podcast Follow the...
24 Feb 2026
Securing Agentic AI: The OWASP Approach
Agentic AI is moving fast. So are the risks. Mo talks with Steve Wilson (Chief AI and Product Officer at Exabeam and Founder and Co-chair of the OWASP GenAI Security Project) about OWASP’s approach to agentic AI security, including prompt injection, guardrails, and what it means to keep humans in the loop as agents scale. 🔗 OWASP GenAI Project: https://genai.owasp.org 📘 The Developer’s Playbook for Large Language Model Security (O’Reilly): https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/the-develo...
10 Feb 2026
Making Sense of AI: Trust, Scale, and the Human Role
AI is moving fast, but good judgment still takes time. In this premiere episode, Mo Sadek and Julie Tsai explore AI, security, and why curiosity and human perspective still matter as technology scales. 🔗 Podcast: https://alice.io/podcast Follow the show so you don’t miss the next episode. New episodes every two weeks. Stay curious.
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