Dancing with Systems (co-hosted by Dr Sally Uren and Prof. Dr Wayne Visser) aims to help change agents from across the spectrum - in business, government, academia, and civil society - better understand the complex set of dynamics at play in the extraordinary systems transitions currently underway.
This debut season will explore how six key systems - energy, food, finance, technology, nature and health - are evolving, examine where the key sticking points to transformation lie, and ask what actions will help unlock meaningful systems change.
S1.E6: The Symbiocene: Business, Boards, and the Nature Transition
Reconnecting economics with the foundational system of life. Nature is the foundational baseline of our global economy, yet mainstream financial systems have long priced its preservation at effectively zero. With wildlife populations declining by 73% since 1970, nature loss poses a severe, systemic threat to economic stability. In this Season 1 finale, Wayne and Sally explore how businesses can shift from extracting natural capital to embedding nature at the highest levels of governance, stra...
13 Oct 2026
S1.E5: Healthy Planet, Healthy People: The Health System Transition
Unlocking preventive healthcare for people and planet. Health is one of our most complex and deeply interconnected systems—shaping and shaped by climate change, food, agriculture, policy, and poverty. While healthcare delivery carries a significant environmental footprint, climate impacts from extreme heat to air pollution are rapidly worsening health outcomes worldwide. In this episode, Wayne and Sally explore how to shift from reactive "sickness" systems to preventive, climate-resilient hea...
29 Sept 2026
S1.E4: Making Nature an Investable Asset: The Finance System Transition
How finance underpins all sector transitions—and how we fix the flow The finance system underpins almost every major transition underway, acting both as a root cause of past systemic failures and as the ultimate lever for future solutions. In this episode, Wayne and Sally explore how to unlock financial flows to accelerate transitions across energy, food, nature, and health—despite political headwinds, market backlashes, and regulatory hurdles. Guests Paul Dickinson — Co-Founder and Man...
1 Sept 2026
S1.E3: Redesigning the Food System From the Soil Up
The food system is full of big numbers — and even bigger tensions. In this episode, Wayne and Sally dive deep into one of our most culturally embedded and vital global systems. From soil health and water usage to biodiversity and the power of food to bring people together, the food system connects deeply to human health, culture, and planetary boundaries. But with food accounting for a third of global greenhouse gas emissions and millions facing acute hunger or unaffordable healthy diets, the...
5 Aug 2026
S1.E1: Why the Energy Transition May Already Be Unstoppable
Why the energy transition might already be unstoppable. The energy transition isn't coming — it's already here. In our first episode, Wayne and Sally unpack why the shift to renewables has passed the point of no return, who's leading the charge globally, and what a truly fair transition looks like in practice. Guests Kingsmill Bond — Senior Principal, Ember Rhian Kelly — Chief Sustainability Officer, SSE What We Cover How systems change — and why the energy transition has hit its tippi...
5 Aug 2026
S1.E2: How Technology Is Shaping Every Global System Transition
AI and clean tech are converging to influence the pace and nature of key systems transition. AI is the great accelerator — but accelerating in the wrong direction is still the wrong direction. In this episode, Wayne and Sally explore the double-edged nature of technology: a powerful enabler of every other systems transition, and a sector with its own rapidly growing footprint. The question isn't whether AI is good or bad — it's what we point it at. Guests Joel Makower — Chair & Co-founder...
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