The Sumner Files, Episode Eleven: Milton Resnick, Part 1
This episode was not recorded by Adam. It was recorded by Sumner, on February 20, 1980, when he, along with Rudolph Grey and Duncan Lindsay, sat down for a conversation with abstract expressionist painter Milton Resnick. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Resnick taught at the New York Studio School, where he was Sumner’s most important teacher. Under Resnick’s tutelage, Sumner’s own painting switched from figurative to abstract, and remained abstract until he began doing figurative painting again in the post-Mars period, the end of the 1970s into the 1980s. During this same time he also made a practice of conducting interviews, with artists and others. He interviewed Resnick three times, of which this is the first. While Sumner published some of these interviews in Vacation magazine, these interviews with Resnick have never been released publicly in any form, to our knowledge. This one is a remarkable, wide-ranging conversation, covering many topics, but coming back repeatedly to questions around the value and meaning of art and the role of the artist in society.
Adam is also now writing about Sumner on substack (https://deepconvection.substack.com/), approximately weekly. You can find out more about Milton Resnick at the web site of the Milton Resnick and Pat Passlof Foundation (https://www.resnickpasslof.org/milton-resnick).
15 Feb 2026
The Sumner Files, Episode Ten: Weasel Walter
In this episode, Adam talks to musician, archivist, and historian Weasel Walter. As a musician, Weasel’s work spans (quoting from his web page) “extreme rock forms and free jazz”. He was a key figure in what has been called the second no wave movement, in Chicago in the 1990s. His bands and collaborations include the Flying Luttenbachers and (with Lydia Lunch) Retrovirus, among too many others to list. But Weasel is also known as one of the most knowledgeable archivists and historians of the original no wave scene. He was too young to be there in downtown NYC in the 70s, but he can tell you more about who did what, where and when than just about anyone, including the people who were there. Weasel and Adam talk about what happened back then, how it influenced Weasel’s own life and career, and the broader issues around art, culture and commerce that are raised by all of it and that form the context in which we can try to understand Sumner. This interview was recorded in March 2025.
Adam is also now writing about Sumner on substack (https://deepconvection.substack.com/), approximately weekly. You can find Weasel’s music on weaselwalter.com.
15 Dec 2025
The Sumner Files, Episode Nine: Arto Lindsay, Again
In this episode, Adam talks to Arto Lindsay for a second time. The first time (The Sumner Files, Episode Five) was remote, when Arto was in Brazil and Adam in NYC. This time, a few months later, Arto was in NYC and came by to look at Sumner’s archive and talk about it. Arto himself appears in the archive, in multiple ways — for example, the drawing shown above (8.5″x11″, ink on paper), one of many that Arto did as part of the Jack Texas collective with Sumner and Rudolph Grey. This interview was recorded in November 2024.
Adam is also now writing about Sumner on substack (https://deepconvection.substack.com/), approximately weekly.
Inside a recent episode
The Sumner Files, Episode Eleven: Milton Resnick, Part 1
Published 2 Mar 2026 · Transcript excerpt
[…] And this gave me the proper attitude for this thing. But what finally happened? What did you finally do? Did you finally get the right kind of thing? Well, I had to make up for white. That was my worst. So I bought some enamel, and then I found somewhere I picked up the... uh titanium white and powder you know and uh and i threw that into the enamel to thicken it and got it so i could work with you work on the big painting well the big painting the big canvas i had brought up you mean up in the country yeah i threw that out i didn't have the heart to scrape it but i worked on those others at any rate i thought it turned out better than i had You know, I hadn't guessed at what I had found in the work by taking advantage of what I didn't have. […]
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