What the World Needs Now: A Non-Anxious Presence with Wayne Schmidt
"One of the staple axioms of change theory is that you cannot have new levels of change and maintain previous levels of control."
Join me for a rich conversation with Dr. Wayne Schmidt, centered on Mark Sayer's recent work A Non-Anxious Presence. (https://www.amazon.com/Non-Anxious-Presence-Changing-Complex-Christian/dp/0802428576)
Wayne has been the General Superintendent of the Wesleyan Church since 2016. Prior to that he served as the Chief Administrative Officer of Wesley Seminary. And even further back, Wayne was the senior pastor of Kentwood Community Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan for 30 years. But more than all of that, I believe Wayne is a man that embodies what being a non-anxious presence looks like in every day life and leadership.
Find more of Wayne's writings, including the book Surrender mentioned in this episode on his Amazon author page (https://www.amazon.com/Wayne-Schmidt/e/B001JS7F6Y?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_5&qid=1666334817&sr=1-5).
13 Jun 2022
Parenting in Exile with Andrea & Jeremy Summers
Parenting has never been a cake walk, but like everything in our world today, it's become increasingly complex and confusing. In this episode, I chat with two of the most intentional parents I know, Andrea and Jeremy Summers. We talk about the unique challenges facing 21st century families, why resiliency may be the most important virtue to cultivate, our greatest hopes and fears for our kids, and some practical things they've done to spiritual form their children. I've always benefitted from learning from others a little further down the road than me , and this conversation was no exception (their kids are 17, 15, 13, and 11).
The links:
It's Just a Phase (https://phaseguides.com)
The Anxiety of Exile (https://anchor.fm/exploringexile/episodes/The-Anxiety-of-Exile---Noticing--Naming--and-Diffusing-with-Steve-Cuss-e1ggcuq) (episode with Steve Cuss)
Summer's "Rule of Life" (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QdilN8k2w9hbWiqP_KfBFtTz-cI17A2W022P5kUMNTc/edit?usp=sharing) -- some of the principles the Summers' are looking to instill in their children
Awakening Grace (https://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Grace-Spiritual-Practices-Transform/dp/0898274311/ref=sr_1_4?qid=1654880063&refinements=p_27%3AJeremy+Summers&s=books&sr=1-4) by Jeremy Summers & Matt Leroy
Paradox (https://www.amazon.com/Paradox-Embracing-Christianity-Matt-LeRoy/dp/1632570912/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1654880063&sr=1-5)by Jeremy Summers and Matt Leroy
19 May 2022
Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars with Brent Ingersoll
It's been a popular past time for American theologians, pastors, and cultural critics to look to Canada to get a snapshot of our future. Is that true? What does it look like to not only follow Jesus, but lead a church, in the predominantly post-christian context of Atlantic Canada? In this episode, I sit down with Brent Ingersoll, lead pastor of Kings Church. (https://kingschurch.cc/)He gets real about the struggles of the past two years, what's he's learned about himself, the danger of "culture wars," and the revival he sees brewing.
Brent's website, blog, & podcast (https://brentingersoll.com/)
Twitter (https://twitter.com/brentingersoll)
Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/brentingersoll/)
Woke Jesus article (https://mikemacneil.substack.com/p/woke-jesus?s=r)
1 Apr 2022
The Anxiety of Exile - Noticing, Naming, and Diffusing with Steve Cuss
"Often the most anxious person in the room holds the most power."
I first encountered Steve Cuss' work in 2019. His book Managing Leadership Anxiety was a key resource in helping me understand how my own anxiety was presenting itself and affecting me personally and professionally. In this wide ranging conversation, we discuss the "four spaces" where anxiety resides and spreads, how you can notice it in yourself and others, how to best manage or diffuse it, and where Steve sees anxiety impacting some current events in our day. We also talk about the unique dynamics in the church and pastoral leadership.
Steve cut his teeth on leadership anxiety when serving as a chaplain at a level one trauma hospital at 24 years of age. He currently serves as a pastor on staff at Discovery Christian Church in Denver, Colorado. When not working, you can find him laughing with family, knee-deep in a trout stream, or trying a guitar he cannot afford at a local music store. For more great resources and to dig deeper into this important topic, check out the following:
The Book - Managing Leadership Anxiety (https://www.amazon.com/Managing-Leadership-Anxiety-Yours-Theirs/dp/1400210887)
The Podcast - Managing Leadership Anxiety (https://open.spotify.com/show/12Calj2bRLJffna1egQfaw?si=8adb3e667f404c15)
The Website - https://www.stevecusswords.com/ (https://www.stevecusswords.com/)
The Twitter - https://twitter.com/stevecusswords (https://twitter.com/stevecusswords)
1 Mar 2022
Get Off The Fence! A Conversation with David Kinnan
Is there a better alternative than "canceling" those we disagree with? In this episode, I sit down for a wide ranging conversation with David Kinnan. David is the Lead Pastor of Fountain Springs Church, and the author of Off the Fence: Live the Life You Were Born to Live. David and his wife Katy have been married eighteen years and enjoy raising their four children in the beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota.
Check out David's book - Off The Fence (https://www.amazon.com/Off-Fence-Live-Life-Were/dp/0578927314)
And subscribe to their raw and practical podcast -- David and Katy's podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/off-the-fence/id1606264014 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/off-the-fence/id1606264014)
2 Feb 2022
Work, Purpose, and The Great Resignation with Trisha Welstad
We apparently really like using the word "great" to describe things (see episode 1)
The Great Resignation.
The Great Renegotiation.
The Great Reflection.
Whatever you want to call it, it's clear that something strange is happening in the world of employment. It's estimated that up to 33% of the non-farm US workforce voluntarily quit their jobs in the last two years. These aren't layoffs. These are people pursuing other opportunities, while others are choosing to leave the workforce altogether. What are we to make of this? On this episode, I chat with my friend and vocational coach Trisha Welstad from the Northwest Leadership Center to discern what's going on and whether or not the Christian faith offers anything to the conversation.
Start "living your calling" and connect with Trisha more at the Northwest Leadership Center (https://nwleadershipcenter.com/)website or on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/nwleadershipcenter/) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/NWLeadershipCenter).
9 Jan 2022
The Speed of Trust
Picking up from our very first episode...we talked about how in every one of those massive 500 year shifts in history, one of the core issues was TRUST. Something would happen -- the fall of Rome or the Great Schism of the church , etc -- there was this event that pops the collective balloon of society, and it triggers this breakdown of previously trusted institutions or understandings. And in its wake, you have this large vacuum of authority and a climate of severe DISTRUST.
Does that strike you as something that might be relevant for us today?
How has trust been so broken? And how can we begin to get it back?
And what role do mandates (vaccine or otherwise) play in all of this?
8 Dec 2021
Doubt and Deconstruction: Questioning Your Faith Without Losing It with AJ Swoboda
Though it's certainly not a new phenomenon, there is a growing number of Christians, particularly in the West, who are deconstructing parts of the religion they've inherited. Is it possible to travel that road without completely abandoning Christianity? Can doubt and deconstruction actually lead to a more rich and authentic faith in Jesus? Today's guest thinks so. Dr. Aj Swoboda joins Exploring Exile drawing on his most recent book and his many experiences walking the desert of doubt with young adults in the Pacific Northwest.
To order After Doubt or any other books by Dr. Swoboda -- https://www.ajswobodawrites.com (https://www.ajswobodawrites.com)
To listen to AJ's brilliant podcast, co-hosted by Ninja Gupta -- In Faith and Doubt (https://open.spotify.com/show/6w4NSprhzcY65MzfxI2tcq?si=16a899a7c90148bd)
Add your voice to the conversation and connect more on the Exploring Exile Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/ExploringExile) page
22 Nov 2021
The Stockdale Paradox
Do you remember the "two week" COVID shutdown... that actually took a few months...and then became a "season"...and now, 18 months later, is still very much affecting our lives? One of the biggest challenges of this moment is finding a way to keep hope alive. Every time we think we are about to come out the other side, we just see more tunnel. Can we face the hard facts of our situation, and yet stay encouraged? I think so. And I think it's vital that we not only figure out how to do this for ourselves, but find a way to do it for others. In this episode, we learn from the incredible example of Admiral Jim Stockdale, a POW during the Vietnam War.
To add your voice to the conversation, follow and comment on the Exploring Exile (http://www.facebook.com/exploringexile) Facebook page.
You can also can also find me on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/cline_mike) @cline_mike
8 Nov 2021
When the Universe Cracks: Hope & Grief in Times of Crisis with Dr. Jo Anne Lyon
Dr. Jo Anne Lyon, founder of World Hope International and former General Superintendent of the Wesleyan Church discusses both the dangers and opportunities that crisis presents followers of Jesus. And how can grief and lament actually foster intimacy? To learn more, check out her contribution to the recent book "When the Universe Cracks" ( (https://www.amazon.com/When-Universe-Cracks-Kingdom-Conversations/dp/1641584092?)Amazon link (https://tinyurl.com/yj8f5vw7))
25 Oct 2021
History in the Making
What if we are not only living through a major shift in world history, but are also the product of another one some 500 years in the making? Mike discusses why this could very well be the case, and what difference that might make in how we approach this season and the one to come.
8 Oct 2021
The Why Behind the What
Welcome to the launch of Exploring Exile. On this first episode, Mike explains why he felt led to start a podcast, and where the whole "exile" name comes from.
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