Final Final

About Final Final

A show about creative work and the work behind it.

Publisher

Nick Blackmon

Category

arts

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

22 May 2025

Latest episode

17 Dec 2025

Latest episodes

8 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   17 Dec 2025

   The Side Project That Replaced His Resume: Ryan Gilbert's Journey from Wisconsin to Tech

   In this episode, Ryan Gilbert shares how he escaped seven years in supply chain by building Workspaces, a newsletter showcasing creative home offices that now reaches 15,000+ subscribers. After countless tech job rejections from Wisconsin, Ryan discovered that building in public could open doors that resumes couldn't. We dive deep into his journey from secretly starting a pandemic project to landing roles at Product Hunt, experiencing a hollow acquisition with Loops, buying back his creation for $1, and finally joining beehiiv. Along the way, we explore why he manually posts everything (6,000+ tweets and counting), the psychological complexity of selling your own creation, and how becoming a father to baby Lily has reshaped his approach to creative risk. Big Takeaways: How side projects can bypass traditional hiring gatekeepers The power of piggybacking on others' audiences for growth Why consistency matters more than perfection (publishing every weekend since April 2020) The hidden costs of acquisition success How parenthood changes your relationship with creative risk Why manual presence beats automation for authentic connection

2. 

   24 Sept 2025

   Building While Leading: Kris Puckett on AI, Apps, and the Future of Design Leadership

   Design management is evolving faster than ever. Kris Puckett, the "Ted Lasso of design managers" at Shopify, shares an unfiltered look at navigating this shift - from bombing his Figma interview to embracing AI tools he once resisted. In this candid conversation, we explore why companies now demand player-coaches over pure managers, how to survive brutal job searches (publicly), and why "vibe coding" represents the future of design leadership. Kris reveals how AI finally unlocked his 20-year dream of building an iOS app and why being a "personality hire" might actually be your superpower. Essential listening for design leaders adapting to industry changes, anyone struggling with job searches, or designers curious about integrating AI without losing their creative soul. Some Key Takeaways: The player-coach model is reshaping design leadership - Companies want leaders who can both manage and make Being a "personality hire" is a compliment - Relational skills combined with craft create unique value Remote culture requires intentional effort - "We've lost some of our fight to maintain relationships" AI unlocks impossible projects - After 20 years of trying, Kris built his app using Claude and Cursor Failure teaches faster than success - Bombing interviews led to complete portfolio rebuilds Show the thing, not the deck - Vibe-coded prototypes beat presentations every time Patience with AI pays off - "The ones that are really patient... can get their idea out there"

3. 

   11 Aug 2025

   How Strategic Ignorance Can Be a Superpower When Starting Something New with Matt Varughese

   Matt Varughese, CEO of 8020 and former petroleum engineering student, shares his unconventional journey from retail work at Nike to building one of the most respected Webflow agencies in the industry. This conversation explores how strategic naivety, cold emailing, and the courage to reject traditional career paths led to working with clients like Ellen DeGeneres, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and Chance the Rapper. Key Takeaways Strategic ignorance as a superpower: Not knowing how hard agency life would be allowed Matt to take risks that expertise would have prevented Cold emailing with proof of work: The exact strategy that landed Chance the Rapper - showing value upfront instead of asking for meetings Project minimums are negotiable: Taking smaller projects from big names can lead to massive long-term relationships AI is flipping the difficulty curve: Marketing websites are now harder to automate than web apps - creating new opportunities Relationships over revenue: Every major client came through relationships and referrals, not traditional sales Timestamps [00:00] Introduction and Matt's unique agency structure [02:26] Why aviation and motorcycles beat screen time [04:01] Indian immigrant parents vs. creative career aspirations [09:00] Starting Websterpiece in high school - the $525 first client [14:50] The Snapchat geo-filter hack that got Chance's attention [22:36] From contractor to CEO - the Tiny acquisition story [33:59] The lawsuit on day one of running 8020 [41:32] How referrals led to Ellen DeGeneres and Huberman Lab [51:14] Going full circle - buying back the agency [56:38] The cold email philosophy and proof of work strategy [59:06] Why AI + Webflow is the next frontier Resources Mentioned 8020 Agency: [8020.com] The Visual Developers Podcast (co-hosted by Matt) Peter Kang's agency articles (Barrel) Blair Enns - agency thought leadership Cursor + Webflow AI workflows Supercast - premium podcast platform Guest Information Matt Varughese is CEO and Partner at 8020, a leading Webflow Enterprise agency. Starting his first agency Websterpiece while in high school, Matt has built websites for Chance the Rapper, Ellen DeGeneres, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and more. He splits time between Oklahoma City and New York.

4. 

   2 Aug 2025

   Refusing to 'Pick One Thing' (And Why That Works) with Kyle Barrett

   Designer, drummer, and creative entrepreneur Kyle Barrett shares his unconventional journey from Whiteboard's first employee to building a successful freelance practice specializing in music industry design. This conversation explores the reality of multi-creative careers, the challenges of freelance creative work, and building sustainable practice that honors your full creative identity rather than forcing specialization. Key Takeaways Creative careers rarely follow linear paths: Kyle's journey from childhood fascination with CD typography to pharmaceutical consideration to design specialization demonstrates the non-linear nature of authentic creative development Early creative obsessions often signal future professional direction: His childhood hours spent studying album liner notes directly connected to his eventual specialization in music industry design Community and mentorship accelerate creative career development: From Jonathan Cattrell's introduction to Whiteboard founders to AJ Cheek's first album project, relationships opened doors that solo effort couldn't Specialization can coexist with creative diversity: Kyle developed deep expertise in music industry design while maintaining his identity as a drummer and exploring other creative outlets The freelance landscape requires constant adaptation: Success means navigating business cycles, client relationships, and industry changes while maintaining creative quality and personal sustainability Physical practices support creative work: Regular exercise and movement are essential for maintaining creative flow and mental clarity during long design sessions Timestamps 00:00 - Meet Kyle Barrett 07:29 - Early creative influences and childhood design fascination 15:37 - Realizing creative work could be a career 20:35 - Balancing multiple creative identities (design + music) 26:15 - Transition from Whiteboard to freelance practice 32:07 - Following creative interests vs. pressure to generalize 34:10 - Building music industry specialization 39:47 - Landing the Sleeping At Last collaboration 44:18 - The ups and downs of freelance creative practice 49:20 - Portfolio career approach and changing creative landscape 54:42 - Advice for multi-creative professionals This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit copyoffinalfinal.substack.com (https://copyoffinalfinal.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

5. 

   25 Jul 2025

   How to Know When It's Time to Leave Your Successful Career with Peter Sum

   When startup marketing leader Peter Sum turned 34, he had a moment of reckoning that changed everything. Despite 15 years of success in tech, he couldn't shake the feeling that he wasn't fully bringing himself to his work. Today, Peter runs Kenzie Club, hosting sold-out supper clubs in Berlin and redefining what career success actually means. This conversation explores the messy reality of career transitions, from the privilege required to make big changes to the fear of burning bridges to your old identity. Peter shares how moving to Berlin opened new perspectives on authentic living, why he's "anti-planning" these days, and what it really takes to align your work with your values. If you've ever felt successful but misaligned, comfortable but restless, this episode offers honest insights about following authentic paths when the safe choice stops feeling safe. Key Themes Explored * The 34th Birthday Moment: How Peter's birthday reflection revealed the gap between external success and internal alignment * Geographic Catalyst: Why moving to Berlin opened new perspectives on authentic living * Anti-Planning Philosophy: How following flow and curiosity can be more effective than rigid goal-setting * Privilege and Responsibility: The complex role of financial security in creative career transitions * Sustainable vs. Scalable: Redefining success metrics from growth to lifestyle alignment Episode Timeline & Key Moments * 03:00 - Peter's university journey: switching programs every year and finding startups * 06:15 - The 34th birthday realization and looking ahead 15 years * 09:30 - How Berlin's culture influenced his perspective on authentic living * 16:00 - The transition from tech motivations to food passion * 24:30 - Working in professional kitchens for the first time * 32:15 - Building Kenzie Club and the supper club model * 38:00 - The "smash burger lasagna" innovation and pop-up success * 41:30 - Navigating financial privilege and creative exploration * 46:30 - Advice for examining life assumptions and following authentic paths Guest Information Peter Sum - Former startup marketing leader turned chef and food entrepreneur * 15 years in tech startups, helping companies grow from pre-seed to Series B * Currently runs Kenzy Club, hosting intimate supper clubs and pop-ups in Berlin * Culinary school graduate from Italy Key Takeaways * Career misalignment often manifests as inability to "fully bring yourself" to work * Geographic change can unlock new perspectives on what's possible * Following curiosity and energy can be more effective than rigid planning * Financial privilege creates both opportunity and responsibility in career transitions * Success metrics can shift from external validation to internal alignment * Regular assumption examination is essential for authentic living Connect with Peter * Kenzie Club Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/kenzy.club/) * Peter on Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/petersum/) * Peter on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/petersum/) Thanks for reading Final Final! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit copyoffinalfinal.substack.com (https://copyoffinalfinal.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

6. 

   14 Jul 2025

   Why the Best Creative Careers Don't Follow Rulebooks

   Show Overview Designer, dad, and creative director Chris Conley shares his unconventional journey from Apple retail to co-founding Thread, a multi-disciplinary creative studio in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. This conversation explores the reality of creative career pivots, the challenges of transitioning from maker to manager, and building sustainable creative businesses rooted in authentic relationships. Key Takeaways Career transitions are rarely linear: Chris's path from Apple retail to music production to design school to agency work to co-founding Thread demonstrates how creative careers often evolve through unexpected opportunities and relationships Education as confidence building: Design school provided Chris not just technical skills, but the confidence and critical thinking needed to defend creative work and build client relationships Partnership dynamics matter: The complementary skills and personalities between Chris (extroverted, relationship-focused) and co-founder Zach (introverted, operations-focused) create a balanced leadership foundation Small studio realities: Creative directors at small studios wear multiple hats daily - from account management to sales to actual creative work Work-life ballast vs. balance: Rather than seeking perfect work-life balance, embracing seasonal intensity allows for both focused work periods and genuine rest Episode Highlights & Timestamps [7:30] First paid creative project: $100 logo and website for sister-in-law's wedding photography business [12:45] Moving from Knoxville to Lancaster, PA for family - and accidentally falling in love with the city [18:30] Going back to design school at 27 with a newborn - the reality of 100-hour weeks [28:15] Why Chris chose local community college over prestigious design schools [34:30] The transition from freelancing to joining Thread as co-founder [41:15] Honest take on the "creative director" title and wearing multiple hats in small business [49:30] Thread's profit-sharing model and why equity "means nothing and everything" Guest Information Chris Conley Co-Founder & Creative Director, Thread Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania Website: madebythread.com (http://madebythread.com) LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/madebyconley (http://madebythread.com) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit copyoffinalfinal.substack.com (https://copyoffinalfinal.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

7. 

   20 Jun 2025

   Jose Ocando: The "Failed" Copywriter and English Major Turned Designer

   Staff brand designer Jose Ocando at Webflow discusses how his background in literature informs his design philosophy of expressive minimalism, balancing restraint with personality in this interview.

8. 

   22 May 2025

   Introducing: Final Final

   Host Nick Blackmon introduces Final Final, a podcast exploring the creative journeys, processes, and mindsets of designers, animators, filmmakers, and other creatives.

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

1 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 26 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

53

Social presence

0

YouTube

0

Engagement

0

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Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.