Follow Me to the M-R-O-P! is a podcast for men considering the Illuman Men’s Rites of Passage (MROP). Through real, honest conversations with men who’ve been through the rites, we share what the experience is actually like—so you can discern whether this initiation is the right next step for you. - https://mroptalk.com (https://mroptalk.com)
What is the difference between a ceremony and a ritual, and how can the latter completely alter the course of a man's life?
In this forty-first episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Karim Aziz, a ritual elder and retired coastal resident of Portland, Texas. Karim shares his journey to the 2009 Men's Rites of Passage at John Knox Ranch, and how crossing that threshold gave him the language and the framework for the midlife stirring he couldn't quite name.
Episode Highlights
The Midlife Stirring: How Karim's ten years in first-half-of-life spirituality (Walk to Emmaus) eventually left him hungry for a deeper, second-half-of-life transition.
Entering the Unknown: Arriving at the rites with zero knowledge of Richard Rohr or initiation, and making the conscious decision to say "yes" to whatever the weekend held.
Releasing the Anger: A deeply moving account of Karim unexpectedly using the grief ritual to finally process the shame, anger, and embarrassment of his father's suicide.
The Power of Ritual: The vital distinction between a simple ceremony and a robust ritual that hits the body and moves a man from the known into the liminal unknown.
The Role of the Ritual Elder: Karim explains his journey from inventorying the supply closet in Texas to becoming a ritual elder, where his primary job is simply to set a safe container for men to do their own work.
Links & Resources
Brian Mueller (https://brianmueller.com) (Host)
BriansPoems.com (https://brianspoems.com)
Illuman MROP (https://illuman.org/mrop)
Choosing Presence (https://choosingpresence.org)
Practicing Presence App (https://choosingpresence.org/app)
The Universal Christ (https://amzn.to/4wffnXU) by Richard Rohr
Adam's Return (https://amzn.to/3PzVESH) by Richard Rohr
Breathing Under Water (https://amzn.to/452VLKQ) by Richard Rohr
Trust Stillness (https://amzn.to/4ucJLRv) by Brian Mueller
Credits
First and foremost, thank you to Karim Aziz for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
Music Credits:
Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams
5 Oct 2026
Episode #40 feat. Dean Robertson
What happens when a man carrying a lifetime of process addictions and a fierce "Warrior" ego finally surrenders in the wilderness?
In this deeply moving fortieth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Dean Robertson, a full-time woodworker and mentor in 12-step recovery from Linwood, Washington. Dean discusses his 2022 initiation at Skalitude, Washington, offering a profoundly honest look at addiction, the shadow, and the grueling but beautiful work of the hero's journey.
Episode Highlights
Permission to Surrender: How an anxious, over-prepared man hiding behind process addictions finally let go of his phone and his pride when his wife gave him permission to surrender.
The Alaskan Wilderness: Dean's harrowing and beautiful journey from jail cells and smoking tea bags to a three-year, off-the-grid solo in the Alaskan rainforest to get sober.
Sobriety vs. Recovery: Why simply eliminating substance abuse wasn't enough, and how the rites helped him confront the deadly sin of pride and his "dry drunk" process addictions.
Befriending the Dragon: Dean's incredible insight into the hero's journey—why we must get lost to find our way, and why surrendering to the dragon is more transformative than slaying it.
The Return of the Hero: A beautiful reflection on elderhood and why the true treasure of any initiation is returning to the community to give your story away.
Links & Resources
The Cave & The Fire - Season 1, Ep 5 - Streets to Surrender, with Dean Robertson (https://youtu.be/2jXmvrPCUSA)
Brian Mueller (https://brianmueller.com) (Host)
BriansPoems.com (https://brianspoems.com)
Illuman MROP (https://illuman.org/mrop)
Choosing Presence (https://choosingpresence.org)
Practicing Presence App (https://choosingpresence.org/app)
The Universal Christ (https://amzn.to/4wffnXU) by Richard Rohr
Adam's Return (https://amzn.to/3PzVESH) by Richard Rohr
Breathing Under Water (https://amzn.to/452VLKQ) by Richard Rohr
Trust Stillness (https://amzn.to/4ucJLRv) by Brian Mueller
Credits
First and foremost, thank you to Dean Robertson for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
Music Credits:
Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams
24 Sept 2026
Episode #39 feat. Tony Murray
What happens when a man searching for a quick fix arrives in Aravaipa Canyon weighed down by too much gear and a heavy load of fear?
In this thirty-ninth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Tony Murray to discuss his April 2014 initiation in Arizona. Tony, who works in HR and analytics in Louisiana, opens up about the deep anxieties he carried into the wilderness—from sleeping arrangements to bug bites—and how crossing the river into liminal space washed those fears away.
Episode Highlights
The Fear of the Unknown: Tony shares his hilarious and relatable anxieties about sleeping in the woods, the food, and bringing unnecessary gear to the canyon.
The "I Am" Exercise: The vulnerability of sitting in a circle of strangers and realizing that once his titles (father, manager, HR director) were stripped away, he had to face his true self.
Deepening the Practice: How an Arizona fireman taught Tony a simple trick with a yoga strap to support his hips, transforming his agonizing 20-minute sits into a daily practice he now craves.
The Silent Drive Home: Why Tony's mentor, Joe Hebert, insisted on driving him to the rites, providing a crucial, unspoken buffer between the emotional exhaustion of the initiation and the return to the real world.
Radical Self-Compassion: Tony explains how the rites ultimately initiated him into a path of forgiving himself and accepting his own flaws, which paved the way for a beautiful friendship with his ex-wife.brotherhood.
Links & Resources
Brian Mueller (https://brianmueller.com) (Host)
BriansPoems.com (https://brianspoems.com)
Illuman MROP (https://illuman.org/mrop)
Choosing Presence (https://choosingpresence.org)
Practicing Presence App (https://choosingpresence.org/app)
The Universal Christ (https://amzn.to/4wffnXU) by Richard Rohr
Adam's Return (https://amzn.to/3PzVESH) by Richard Rohr
Breathing Under Water (https://amzn.to/452VLKQ) by Richard Rohr
Trust Stillness (https://amzn.to/4ucJLRv) by Brian Mueller
Credits
First and foremost, thank you to Tony Murray for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
Music Credits:
Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams
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4 ratings
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