Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.
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With Stan unavailable this week, it is left to Frank to manage proceedings. The chat is fortunate to be connected with some amazing guests, and this week we welcome back Andy Buck, author, speaker, former headteacher, director at National College and Trust Managing Director. He is also the founder of Leadership Matters, BASIC 4 Schools and Cadogan Press. I'm always left wondering what I did with my career when I review the significant achievements of others. Anyway, Andy provides an interesting outline of his career and how he was encouraged by senior colleagues to take the next step forward and upward. He reflects on the reasons for stepping down and how exciting his current work is. Andy considers the importance of Lucy Powell's speech emphasising the importance of oracy and her commitment to reform at Ofsted. Frank then reflects on two recent visits when he met CEO Beryce Nixon and Headteacher Jonathan Berry and considers the power of understated (or not flashy) leadership, that is firmly rooted in shared piorities, honesty, respect and trust. Enjoy.
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8 Oct 2026
Frank and Stan Chat No. 296
Dave McPartlin is the Headteacher of Flakefleet Primary School in Fleetwood. He is an extraordinary colleague who has driven improvements at his school for the benefit of his pupils, but also for the local community. We last visited the school in November 2023, when he was just about to open a community cafe. We were delighted to walk around the school, chat with staff and pupils and finish off the visit by recording our weekly chat there. Dave is probably best known for leading his school to the Britian's Got Talent final...and winning. But, it would be totally wrong to make this his greatest achievement because he has committed his career to working in some of the most socially and economically challenging areas of the North West and has made a significant impact in raising aspirations and outcomes. He has used the recognition he has gained to comment on important education issues. This week, Stan considers the rather mixed messages being offered around the importance of attendance while Dave comments on the woes at Ofsted. Frank completes the chat by considering what Trust and Governing Boards can learn from the problems currently being experienced at Manchester City FC.
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1 Oct 2026
Frank and Stan Chat No. 295
No guest has appeared three times in a year on the Frank and Stan Chat. Dame Kathy August is the exception. She has worked for over forty years in the public sector (Education) with three Headships and Director posts in LEAs. She was Principal of one of the first city Academies in Moss Side, Manchester, which opened in 2003 and became outstanding in 2008/09. Following this, she was Deputy Chief Executive and Acting Chief Executive of a large multi-academy trust and then helped a new trust establish itself in the East of England. She was awarded a DBE for services to education in 2014. More recently, she was a Board member at Ofsted and has written two books on school improvement and leadership. Her recent collaboration with Tom Clark saw the publication of the brilliantly informative and insightful book 'Voices of the Education Vanguard'. During the discussion, Kathy misquoted the description of John Patton. It was in fact, ‘arrogance mixed with lack of confidence’ The chat covers Stan's reflections on research undertaken by 'ICT Mr. P' on why teachers are leaving the profession. We all reflect on toxic leaders and the culture they sadly promote. Kathy then considers the PM's speech, and Frank closes the discussion with thoughts on the shift in approach that is required when a school is retracting, as against a period of expansion. A highly enjoyable chat. We are pleased to report that Kathy is keen to join us again in the autumn of 2027.
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