Grey is a podcast that cuts through the theory to explore the real-world challenges of building high-performance environments in corporate Australia. Hosted by powerhouse duo Rajan Kumar — entrepreneur, business founder, and advisor to Australia’s biggest brands — and Dr. Mel Irons — psychologist, executive coach, and organisational development leader — Grey dives into honest, unfiltered conversations with leaders who are living the work every day. Forget the glossy playbooks and polished keynote speeches. This is about what it really takes.
Episode 9: Fuel vs Friction - What Happens When You Bring OD In-House
What really changes when organisational development (OD) stops being something you bring in and becomes something you build in?
In this episode of Grey, Dr. Mel Irons and Rajan Kumar continue their look back at the business Rajan co-founded, this time covering years three and four. That was when the founders made a big bet: replacing an external OD consultant with an in-house OD leader who reported straight to the CEO.
They get honest about why it was a gamble, the "what are we actually getting for this?" moment six weeks in, and why the unglamorous clean-up work came before anything shiny.
Chapters:
00:00 - 08:38 External consultant vs in-house OD
08:39 - 17:06 Two big decisions: outsourcing HR and reporting to the CEO
17:07 - 19:37 The rocket model: fuel vs friction
19:38 - 24:30 Letting go of control and delegating well
24:31 - 27:55 The permission slip
27:56 - 33:37 Scaling beyond startup mode
33:38 - 35:16 Grounding it all in the bottom line
35:17 - 38:06 What would you do differently?
19 Jun 2026
Episode 8: Taking It Back to the Beginning
In Episode 8 of Grey, Dr. Mel Irons and Rajan Kumar continue their deep dive into the practical realities of organisational development by taking it back to the beginning.
Building on the previous episode, we explore the first phase of The Lumery's organisational development journey and unpack the foundational decisions that shaped the years that followed.
What happens when leaders realise that growth can no longer rely on good intentions, talented people, and reactive decision making alone? This episode explores the turning point where organisational development became a strategic investment rather than an operational afterthought.
Using four key categories: Structure, Systems & Processes, Capability, and Networks & Relationships, we walk through the core tactics and decisions implemented during the first three years of the journey. You'll hear how these elements connect over time to create the foundations for sustainable growth, stronger culture, and organisational effectiveness.
9 Apr 2026
Episode 7: The Foundations of Organisational Development
What actually is organisational development - and why do so many businesses only think about it when something is already broken?
We are back for Season 2 and in this first episode, Dr. Melanie Irons and Rajan Kumar unpack the fundamentals of organisational development and why it is one of the most misunderstood parts of building a successful business.
From mindset and leadership to strategy, systems, structure and capability, they explore what it really takes to build an organisation that can grow.
Remember to subscribe for more conversations on leadership, culture, organisational development and high-performing workplaces.
18 Dec 2025
Episode 6: Leading with Heart - Linda Dessau on Power, Dignity and Humanity
In this deeply human and thought-provoking episode of Grey, we sit down with one of Australia’s most respected and trailblazing leaders, The Honourable Linda Dessau AC CVO.
As Victoria’s 29th Governor and the first woman to hold the role, Linda Dessau has spent decades at the intersection of leadership, justice and public service. Her extraordinary career spans the Family Court of Australia, where she served for 18 years as a judge, to her ongoing leadership roles as Chair of Beyond Blue, Deputy Chair of the Australian Grand Prix Corporation, and Ambassador for the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute. Recognised with some of the nation’s highest honours, Linda’s contribution to community, mental health, sport and the arts has reshaped what dignified leadership looks like in modern Australia.
But behind the titles and the accolades lies a story of humanity, resilience and quiet strength. In this conversation, Linda opens up about:
🔹The emotional demands of leadership - what the public doesn’t see when high office meets human vulnerability🔹The moral complexity of decision-making - leading with integrity even when the answers aren’t clear🔹Mental health at the highest levels - her work with Beyond Blue and the evolving conversation around resilience, burnout and vulnerability in leadership🔹Identity and legacy - how she stayed grounded and authentic while embodying the weight of public institutions🔹Dignity and grace in the face of pressure - the personal philosophies that guided her through moments of scrutiny and change
This is not a conversation about theory or status, it’s about what it really takes to lead with heart, humility and courage when the stakes are high!
30 Oct 2025
Episode 5: Changing the Game - Leading On and Off the Field
In this episode of Grey, we are joined by Dominic Baker, CEO of Cricket Tasmania. Dom is a proud Tasmanian and accomplished leader with over 25 years across iconic organisations like Cascade Brewery and the Federal Group.From the changeroom to the boardroom, Dom shares how to build a high-performance culture that connects community, sport, and business - on and off the field. This is a masterclass in leadership and having the courage to take risks! Chapters:0:00 - 6:34 Winning, the Arrival Fallacy, and Motivation6:35 - 10:59 Meet Dominic Baker11:00 - 16:39 Finding Your Authenticity as a Leader16:40 - 18:59 Cricket Tasmania’s Journey to Build “One Team”19:00 - 29:38 Realising the Business Value of Psychological Investment29:39 - 38:55 Betting on Your People and Organisational Structure38:56 - 42:55 Do High-Performance Systems Translate Well Across Teams?42:56 - end Creating Clarity and What’s NextTake a seat and dive in with us!
30 Sept 2025
Episode 4: High Performing Teams in Practice - Turning Models into Momentum
In this episode of Grey, your hosts Dr Mel Irons and Rajan Kumar dive deep into four of the most influential high-performing team frameworks. They unpack the psychology, science, and structure behind successful collaboration — and more importantly, how to bring these models to life inside organisations.
Frameworks discussed:
1. Amy Edmondson’s Psychological Safety — the foundation of trust and openness in teams.
2. Google’s Project Aristotle — what the tech giant learned about what actually drives team effectiveness.
3. Tuckman’s Model — the classic “forming, storming, norming, performing” stages of team development.
4. Patrick Lencioni’s Five Dysfunctions of a Team — a practical lens for diagnosing and fixing team challenges.
Mel and Rajan go beyond the whiteboard to discuss:
✅ How to operationalise these models
✅ The tools and tactics that help embed them into culture
✅ Where teams often get stuck — and how to keep momentum
Tune in, take notes, and transform how your team works.
3 Sept 2025
Episode 3: Pointing North - Can Your Brand Anchor a Purpose-Led Culture?
In this episode we're joined by Simon Hakim, Co-Founder of the award-winning brand agency Hunter, to explore the grey space between brand, purpose, and culture. If you’ve ever wondered whether your brand could do more than just sell — if it could inspire, align, and anchor your team’s identity — this episode is for you.
What we cover;
- Why brand isn't just external — it's a cultural tool
- How purpose-led branding can reshape how teams see their work
- Bringing this to life with real world examples-
Who drives cultural change — leadership, creatives, or both?
Why this matters:
We’re in an era where purpose on the wall isn't enough. Employees and customers alike are asking harder questions. And branding — when done right — isn't just about positioning. It's about pointing north. It's about anchoring a culture in something real, lived, and resonant.
About our guest:
Simon Hakim is the co-founder and CEO of Hunter, a brand transformation company working across Australia and New Zealand. For over a decade, he’s helped ambitious businesses use brand as a lever for growth, reinvention, and cultural change — not just a marketing tool.
Subscribe and follow for more:
Like and subscribe to see when we drop our episodes. If you’re leading teams or shaping workplaces, these are the stories and insights for you. Have a question or want to join an episode? Drop us a message!
29 Jul 2025
Episode 2: From Super Chickens to "Soft Skills" - Why Capability Is the New Currency
In this episode of Grey the podcast, your hosts Dr. Mel Irons and Rajan Kumar explore the often-overlooked difference between capability and competency, and why having a shared language around these concepts is critical for modern organisations.From building effective capability frameworks to understanding the growing value of creativity and soft skills, this episode unpacks what it means to future-proof your workforce in an evolving corporate landscape.Chapters:0:00 - 8:00 - Why does it matter to have a language around competency and capability?8:00 - 16:16 - Building a Capability Framework16:07 - 21:12 - The challenges21:13 - 22:05 - Having your people as your differentiator22:06 - 25:59 - The growing importance of creativity and soft skills26:00 -31:09 - The evolving definition of success and value in the workplace👉 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and follow Grey for more conversations that go beyond black-and-white thinking.Got a curly high performing teams or culture question you'd love us to tackle? Or think you’d make a great guest on Grey the Podcast? We’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us via hello@greythepodcast.com.au.
6 Jul 2025
Episode 1: What Even Is High Performing Teams?
Welcome to the very first episode of Grey the Podcast — where we leave the glossy playbooks behind and get real about what it takes to build high-performance cultures in corporate Australia.
In this launch episode, hosts Dr. Mel Irons and Raj Kumar introduce themselves and share the backstory of how this podcast — and their unique partnership — came to be. From COVID-era culture shifts to executive conversations behind closed doors, they pull back the curtain on why this work matters now more than ever.
Together, they dive headfirst into the big question: What even IS high performing teams?
Is it something you can measure? Is it the same in business as it is in sport? Does it actually move the bottom line — or is it just more corporate fluff? Mel brings the science, Raj brings the business lens, and both bring years of lived experience navigating the grey zones between culture, leadership, and impact.
They also explore two of the biggest tugs of war facing leaders today: Science and theory vs. the reality of corporate life
You’ll hear:
How senior leaders really think about performance and culture
The tension between theory and practice — and how to bridge it
The big ‘grey areas’ no one’s talking about (but should be)
How to make the intangible tangible — and prove the value of the so-called “fluffy stuff”
If you’ve ever wrestled with how to measure culture, convince execs this stuff matters, or lead in the grey — this episode is where it begins.
Got a curly high performing teams or culture question you'd love us to tackle? Or think you’d make a great guest on Grey the Podcast? We’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us via hello@greythepodcast.com.au.
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