1 in 4 women have experienced miscarriage, and yet the loss of life in the womb can be a particularly lonely grief. On the Held Podcast, we'll hear from friends who have been there. They'll help us think biblically and practically about the struggles and temptations that accompany this type of loss.
by Abbey Wedgeworth
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10 episodes
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Podcast Overview
1 in 4 women have experienced miscarriage, and yet the loss of life in the womb can be a particularly lonely grief. On the Held Podcast, we'll hear from friends who have been there. They'll help us think biblically and practically about the struggles and temptations that accompany this type of loss.
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7/17/2020
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Recent Episodes
October 7, 2020
Ep. 010 | Developing a Theology of Suffering with Abigail Dodds
<p class="" data-pm-slice="1 1 []">In this episode of the Held Podcast, I chatted with Abigail Dodds about the importance of developing a theology of suffering. We talked about what a theology of suffering is, how to develop one, and walked through some common thoughts and reactions to miscarriage that cause us to doubt God’s goodness in the face of our suffering. What we believe about God shapes our experience of suffering, I hope this episode will be a true help in helping you to reconcile your hard experience with a good and sovereign God.</p> <h4><strong>About Abigail:</strong></h4> <p class="">Abigail Dodds is wife to Tom and mom to five great kids. She is a Regular Contributor at Desiring God, the author of <a href="https://amzn.to/2Sx4Gz3">'(A)Typical Woman'</a> (Crossway 2019), an M.A. student at Bethlehem College and Seminary, a baking enthusiast, garden fanatic, and mediocre knitter. She writes at <a href="https://hopeandstay.com/">hopeandstay.com</a> and on instagram <a href= "https://www.instagram.com/abigail__dodds/?hl=en">@abigail__dodds</a> .</p> <h4><strong>Questions in this Episode:</strong></h4> <p class=""> Would you start off by just telling us a bit about your own experience with miscarriage personally?</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">Today’s episode is entitled “Developing a Theology of Suffering.” Can you explain for us what this means, and why it’s so important to have?</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">I know that your miscarriage led to a much longer season of hardship. Can you tell us a bit about that and perhaps use that experience as an example to show us how what we believe about God and know about his word shapes our experience of suffering? How did that season challenge or shape what you believed about God? Or maybe how did what you believed about God impact your experience of that season of suffering?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">I received a message recently from a woman who has miscarried who said that that was the first time she had had to deal with “senseless suffering” personally… and by that she meant, a situation in which there was no one or nothing to blame but… well, God. The intensely personal experience of experiencing death within your own body can raise a lot of theological questions, it definitely did for me! Let’s think for a moment from the perspective of a listener who felt like they had a solid understanding of suffering but is suddenly feeling totally stumped by the problem of evil. If God is good, and in control, how can I reconcile the presence of evil, sickness, and death with his character?! What wisdom do you have for us here?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">What are some practical ways that we can develop a theology of suffering even in the midst of it?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Maybe you could help us apply the truth to these real scenarios I have read online…</p> <p class=""> a. “I feel like God is taunting me, pregnant women and big families everywhere, even at church…”</p> <p class=""> b. I know God is trying to teach me something, but what is there left to learn? I mean really, four miscarriages?! Can we move on to another trial?!</p> <p class=""> c. For a women for whom the process is taking forever or is having a season of suffering after loss that won’t let up… perhaps she’s saying “I’ve heard the expression “refiners fire” but I feel like I have been forgotten in the kiln, maybe God is punishing me for something.”</p> <p class=""> d. I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do! I waited until I was married to have sex, we were prayerful about when to start trying, we have served God and attended church and worked with the youth group! What more could he want from us?! How are these teen girls and drug addicts that don’t even want their kids getting pregnant when I’m not?</p> <p class=""> e. “It’s been a week since they told me the baby’s heart had stopped. I’m still throwing up, still have this bad taste in my mouth, still so exhausted and having food aversions… The baby is dead, the least God could do is take away these symptoms!”</p> <p class=""> </p> <h4><strong>Questions for every guest:</strong></h4> <p class="">What’s one way God has used your experience of miscarriage to work in your heart and life?</p> <p class="">If you could encourage a woman to meditate on or memorize any verse or short set of verses in this season, what would it be and why?</p> <h4><strong>Noteworthy Quotes:</strong></h4> <p class="">“When the miscarriage happened, I had all my theology ducks in a row. I knew what I believed about who God was— his goodness, his sovereignty— and I had all the boxes checked I knew were from his word. There was nothing lacking in that in a truly sinful or negative way. I had been well taught. And I believed what I was taught from the word. But as the scriptures talk about so often we are tested at times. And so what happens is those beliefs that are in one sense theoretical can’t remain theoretical anymore. And that’s what happened with my miscarriage was it was kind of that first ‘I’m an adult, something bad has happened’ that really impacted me personally.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“Theology is just our knowledge of God. And so a theology of Suffering would just be trying to understand what we know about God as it relates to our suffering. What does suffering mean when we believe certain things to be true about God’s character. Is there a way to reconcile suffering with what we believe about the character of God? And so those are usually the types of things people are trying to sort through and work through, hopefully biblically, when they talk about developing a theology of suffering: What do we believe about God in relation to our suffering? It’s often in regards to suffering that we can’t relate to our own sin.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“Adam sinned. Sin entered the world through the one man, Adam. So if you zoom out, if you step back, sin still is the cause in some ways of the evil and the sickness and the death that we see in the world. There is a futility, a groaning, that has worked itself into creation that we can say is the result of sin. Not our specific sin that led to this miscarriage, but sin in general. And I think that’s a helpful thing to realize and recognize. It’s helpful because it allows us to grieve, and it also allows us to hate sin as we ought to, even original sin that has now gotten into everything in a way.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“God is in control. We serve a sovereign God who is completely in control of everything that happens. And if I stopped at “Oh, sin cause what happened.” And if I didn’t move past that or join with it that “no, that was God’s plan. He planned it before the foundation of the world, he is sovereign over it,’ and as a Christian we get to add ‘And I know and trust that there is good in it.’ And the best place I can take us to see this is the cross. Here you have Jesus, Gods own son, who is receiving the greatest evil. And yet at the same time we can read in Isaiah that it was the will of God to crush him. I don’t know what to do with that. These are high thoughts. We don’t go around sort of glibbly trying to reconcile them or easily fit them together in a puzzle, but what we do is we stand back and we look at this all powerful God who planned that reality of the cross, the reality of the greatest ‘senseless’ suffering to ever happen to happen to his Son, who did no wrong who was never deserving of anything bad to happen to him, and he worked the greatest possible of all possible goods for it—for his people.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“What was really helpful to me was to be given very small bite sized pieces of truth that I could affirm and that weren’t too overwhelming.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“[We must] guard against making someone else’s blessing our trial.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“Certainly God is teaching us, there is no doubt about it that he is teaching us through our trials, but not in that kind of a transactional way where if we just do X then he’ll finally give us the thing we want. A Christian’s deepest want is him. And so, we don’t use God to get the thing we want, the thing we want is God. What’s potent is that he gives us himself in the trials.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“What is there left to learn? There’s left to learn the heart of God for you. [Even] if the trials don’t let up, he is for you in the trials!”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“God is so much better than what you can use him for. He, himself, is the gift.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“We have a sense that there is a way things ought to be and when it doesn’t go that way we can feel the futility and even that is a sign of God’s purposes and plans because they will one day be as they ought.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“Go to the cross again and just keep looking to the proof, the absolutely irrefutable proof that God is for you. And the only way that you can keep reminding yourself of that reality, He’s for you, He’s for you, He’s for you, is looking at the cross because the scriptures tell us that this is love. Keep reminding yourself of what love actually is.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class="">“He has used [miscarriage] to help me trust his goodness and his ways more.”<br /> <br /></p> <h4><strong>Scripture References:</strong></h4> <p class="">The Book of Job</p> <p class="">Psalm 145</p> <p class="">Romans 5</p> <p class="">The Book of Ecclesiastes</p> <p class="">Psalm 131</p> <p class="">Romans 8</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <h4><strong>Intro/ Outro Music:</strong></h4> <p class=""><a href= "https://open.spotify.com/track/2aSwUiLXP3WIFcFPBVchpZ?si=mK6VWi3ZTmWzJSbqUNUmNw"> My Soul Will Wait (Psalm 62) [feat. Stacy Lantz], Hilton Head Presbyterian Church</a></p> <h4><strong>“Held” Book Purchasing Info:</strong></h4> <p class=""><a href="https://www.thegoodbook.com/held">purchasing link</a> (discount code: heldpodcast10 )</p> <p class="">(or order from <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1784984779/ref=as_li_tl?camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1784984779&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&linkId=013acf4ce7fdcfd6c074f13b5bc2b033&tag=abbeywedgew01-20"> amazon</a>)</p>
September 23, 2020
Ep. 009 | Receiving Help and Service with Irene Sun
<p class="">In this episode of the Held Podcast, I chatted with Irene Sun about help and service in the wake of pregnancy loss. We talked about everything from why it is sometimes difficult to ask for or receive help, to what we should do when the attempts of others to help actually end up hurting us, to where we can go when we feel like no one is offering to help us. Whether you’re wrestling with pride, acutely feeling your need, or experiencing disappointment over the lack of help from your family and community, I pray that Irene’s vulnerable reflections and biblical insights will be a help and a comfort to you.</p> <h4><strong>About Irene Sun:</strong></h4> <p class="">Irene Sun was born in Malaysia but has lived all over the world. She is the author of the picture book <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/God-Counts-Numbers-Word-World/dp/1945270799/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8"> God Counts: Numbers in His World and His World</a>. She studied liturgy and literature at Yale University (M.A.R.) and the Old Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (Th.M.). She now teaches her four boys at home with her husband Hans, is the pastor of a Chinese Church in the Pittsburgh area.</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <h4><strong>Questions in this Episode:</strong></h4> <p class="">Would you start off by just telling us a bit about your own experience with miscarriage?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">What are some of the ways that people cared for you in the wake of your loss that were really helpful and meaningful?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class=""> What do you think some reasons might be that people refuse to ask for help or decline it when it is offered after pregnancy loss or suffering in general?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">What word does the bible have for women struggling to allow others to help them?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Are there good/ non-sinful reasons to refuse help?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Maybe we’re overwhelmed by general offers of help like “let me know if you need anything” and even though we are overwhelmed and hurting, we don’t know how to respond specifically. What help/ suggestion would you offer here?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Sometimes helping hurts. Maybe we feel violated or offended by the way someone helps us. How does God’s word and the Bible offer comfort and help when this happens?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Maybe someone listening doesn’t feel like anyone has offered to help or maybe feels disappointed by her husband, her family, or her church or community’s response to her loss. What encouragement would you offer her?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class=""> </p> <h4><strong>Questions for every guest:</strong></h4> <p class="">What’s one way God has used your experience of miscarriage to work in your heart and life?</p> <p class="">If you could encourage a woman to meditate on or memorize any verse or short set of verses in this season, what would it be and why?</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <h4><strong>Scripture References:</strong></h4> <p class="">Psalm 73</p> <p class="">2 Corinthians 1:3-5</p> <p class="">Psalm 139</p> <p class="">Psalm 84</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <h4>Intro/ Outro Music:</h4> <p class=""><a href= "https://open.spotify.com/track/2aSwUiLXP3WIFcFPBVchpZ?si=mK6VWi3ZTmWzJSbqUNUmNw"> My Soul Will Wait (Psalm 62) [feat. Stacy Lantz], Hilton Head Presbyterian Church</a></p> <h4>“Held” Book Purchasing Info:</h4> <p class=""><a href="https://www.thegoodbook.com/held">purchasing link</a> (discount code: heldpodcast10 )</p> <p class="">(or order from <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1784984779/ref=as_li_tl?camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1784984779&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&linkId=013acf4ce7fdcfd6c074f13b5bc2b033&tag=abbeywedgew01-20"> amazon</a>)</p> <p> </p>
September 2, 2020
Ep. 008 | Pregnancy After Loss with Courtney Reissig
<p class="" data-pm-slice="1 1 []">In this episode of the Held Podcast, I chatted with Courtney Reissig about pregnancy after loss. We talked about common struggles and temptations that women face in pregnancy after loss including fear, anxiety, cynicism, blind optimism, triggered grief, and feeling guilt over not enjoying the very thing they’ve hoped for. I hope it this episode will encourage you to run to the Lord with whatever you may be feeling or facing, and find that he is compassionate and trustworthy.</p> <p class=""><strong>About Courtney Reissig:</strong></p> <p class="">Courtney Reissig is a writer and bible teacher living in Little Rock, Arkansas. She is the proud mom of four sons, happy wife to Daniel, and author of three books: <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/Accidental-Feminist-Restoring-Delight-Design/dp/1433545489/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+accidental+feminist&qid=1573417414&sr=8-1"> The Accidental Feminist</a>, <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/Glory-Ordinary-Matters-Gospel-Coalition/dp/1433552671/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2NS37ETXLBR8C&keywords=glory+in+the+ordinary+why+your+work+in+the+home+matters+to+god&qid=1573417386&sprefix=glory+in+the+ordinary+%2Caps%2C175&sr=8-1"> Glory in the Ordinary</a>, and <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/Teach-Me-Feel-Worshiping-Through/dp/1784984442/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PUFSPT1HPFFD&keywords=teach+me+to+feel+courtney+reissig&qid=1573417173&sprefix=teach+me+to+feel%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-1"> Teach Me to Feel: Worshiping Through the Psalms in Every Season of Life</a>. They are members of Immanuel Baptist Church. You can follow her on Twitter or Instagram (@courtneyreissig).</p> <h4><strong>Questions in this Episode:</strong></h4> <p class="">Would you start off by just telling us a bit about your own experience with miscarriage?</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">How did your experience of loss impact your own subsequent pregnancies? Positively and/ or negatively? </p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Let’s walk through some of the common struggles or temptations that face a woman in pregnancy after loss. And talk about how the good news of the gospel and God’s word offer help in that place.</p> <p class="">a. fear</p> <p class="">b. anxiety</p> <p class="">c. cynicism</p> <p class="">d. blind optimism (not thinking about negative outcomes)</p> <p class="">e. triggered grief</p> <p class="">f. guilt over grumbling</p> <p class=""> </p> <p class=""> </p> <p class="">Practically speaking, what are some things we can do to fight this temptation/ remember the truth in those overwhelming moments? </p> <p class=""> </p> <p class=""><strong>Questions for every guest:</strong></p> <p class="">What’s one way God has used your experience of miscarriage to work in your heart and life?</p> <p class="">If you could encourage a woman to meditate on or memorize any verse or short set of verses in this season, what would it be and why?</p> <h4><strong>Noteworthy Quotes:</strong></h4> <p class="">“I always describe [pregnancy] as, if you’re standing at the top of a black diamond mountain (and I hate black diamonds, I refuse to go down them), and you have no other way down. You’re up there and you’ve gotta go down, like you have to do it, and you could get really hurt along the way, but the only way out of this is down. And I feel like pregnancy, for me, was like that. I’m pregnant, and I have to deliver this baby, but it could go really badly and I could get really hurt along the way.”</p> <p class="">“One of the things that I think the Lord did in my life with having hard pregnancies… What the Lord did in all of those was kind of rescue me from thinking I had any semblance of control over anything. I don’t think I would have said, “Oh, i think if I do xy and z it’s all going to work out fine.” I wouldn’t have told you that, but I know in hindsight 10 years later that that was kind of where my heart was.”</p> <p class="">“It was a real test for me to have open hands before the Lord and say, “I have no control over this. I can’t keep a baby alive inside me. It sounds negative, but it's a positive!”</p> <p class="">“I struggled to find joy in being pregnant. Instead of giving it to the Lord I would often just spin my wheels, look at message boards, look at articles, try to have some semblance of things are going to be okay… and the anxiety was just really hard for me at times.”</p> <p class="">“Another negative that it was hard for me to process was that I would feel guilty over the fact that I didn’t like being pregnant.”</p> <p class="">“All of the difficulty we face in pregnancy is not how God intended pregnancy to be. So, it’s all part of living in a broken world. And so in the same way that we grieve over the difficulties that this world brings us, throwing up in pregnancy is not how God intended pregnancy to be. [It’s not a good thing.] And not being able to enjoy food, and being so fatigued that you can’t take care of anything else. I think often-times we idealize and idolize what it means to be pregnant,..but feeling difficulty in pregnancy is just part of living in a broken world. And there’s a place for grieving that and lamenting that and saying “I don’t like this anymore than I like working outside in the heat without cold water. It doesn’t mean you resent your baby, it just means you don’t really like the process of getting your baby into the world.”</p> <p class="">“[We] as modern people may look at [the Psalms] and say “that sounds like grumbling to me,” but it’s also in scripture so…, that’s the main distinction: are we taking our complaints and our hearts before the Lord primarily or are we airing our grievances all across the internet.”</p> <p class="">“The verse that was always at the forefront of my mind was in Psalm 20 and it says “Some trust in chariots, some trust in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.” And we don’t have chariots or horses to trust in today but we do have ultrasound machines and rising HCG levels and feeling the baby kick, [and sickness], and I was struck by that verse in my second pregnancy after loss that I was putting a whole lot of hope in that ultrasound showing a beating heart. And if I had that outcome, that that would remove my fear, and if I could just carry that with me to the next appointment then I could feel okay and I was just convicted and also reminded that the ultrasound’s only telling me what’s already there, it’s not making my baby live. Only God can make my baby live.”</p> <p class="">“What I’ve been really convicted by lately is that when I struggle with anxiety, I have found in my own life that I don’t obey Philippians 4. I just am anxious about all things. Instead of [taking] that to the Lord, I don’t take that step. He’s the only one that can sustain me and sustain the life of my unborn child.”</p> <p class="">“[Ask] what am I trusting in that’s actually making my fear worse because it’s actually something that can’t save? And then where am I taking my fears and anxiety? Am I spinning my wheels or am I taking them to the Lord?”</p> <p class="">“Part of living in a broken world is that we’re vulnerable. If we love deeply we’re vulnerable to pain and loss.”</p> <p class="">“I didn’t handle cynicism well, but what helped me was that I had other people who hoped for me.”</p> <p class="">“We could at any given point be facing the reality of any impact of the fall. We have to be mindful of that because I think if we [aren’t] then we root ourselves far too much in this world and this is not all we have.”</p> <p class="">“The heart behind that [mentality of] “I just believe this is my rainbow baby,” the heart behind that is they want to believe God is good, they want to believe God loves them, they want to believe God is for them, and the only way that they can grasp and hold on to that is to believe that he’s not going to let anything happen to them again. Because how could he? And I get that. It would feel cruel if your rainbow baby then becomes another miscarriage, it would feel incredibly cruel, and that’s hard to work through. But it doesn’t prepare you for those realities if you only think in terms of “God would never let that happen to me again.” We just have to live in that tension of “I’m going to actively have faith here that God is good and that he is for me and that he’s gunna do good in my life, and then I’m going to actively pray that he would let this baby live. And then I’m also going to ask God to sustain me and prepare me for whatever could come.”</p> <p class="">“I have always been comforted by Jesus’s interactions with Mary and Martha in John 11. And the comfort that he provides them and the empathy he provides them in their grief– he grieves with them. And when you’re having to walk through grief… you’re having to go back to the same doctor’s appointment, you’re having to sit in the same ultrasound room, all of those things that are triggering all those fears and anxieties you had when you actually were miscarrying your baby, the nearness of the Savior and the comfort of the Savior and the fact that he’s not far off; he’s very near to his people, he’s very near to the brokenhearted, and he tells all who are weary to come to him and find rest,... in those moments, the only way you get out of that spiral is to breathe deeply and ask the Lord to sustain you.”</p> <p class="">“To remove yourself mentally when you can’t physically is sometimes what you need.”</p> <p class="">“The verses that were in my mind, and I didn’t even know I knew them by heart, but they were in my mind all the time after our first miscarriage, were in Isaiah 43. And in verse 2 he says, “I will be with you, When you pass through the waters; and through the rivers, they will not overwhelm you; when not be scorched when you walk through the fire, and the flame will not burn you for I am the Lord your God.” That was just in my mind all the time. I needed those reminders… I’m walking through fire here I’m walking through difficulty here and it feels like I’m being burned. It feels like I’m being burned alive and destroyed. But the Lord is with me. He’s my God. He will be with me.”</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <p class=""><strong>Scripture References:</strong></p> <p class="">Psalm 20</p> <p class="">Philippians 4:13</p> <p class="">John 11</p> <p class="">Isaiah 43:2</p> <p class="" data-rte-preserve-empty="true"> </p> <h4><strong>Intro/ Outro Music:</strong></h4> <p class=""><a href= "https://open.spotify.com/track/2aSwUiLXP3WIFcFPBVchpZ?si=mK6VWi3ZTmWzJSbqUNUmNw"> My Soul Will Wait (Psalm 62) [feat. Stacy Lantz], Hilton Head Presbyterian Church</a></p> <h4><strong>“Held” Book Purchasing Info:</strong></h4> <p class=""><a href="https://www.thegoodbook.com/held">purchasing link</a> (discount code: heldpodcast10 )</p> <p class="">(or order from <a href= "https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1784984779/ref=as_li_tl?camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1784984779&ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&linkId=013acf4ce7fdcfd6c074f13b5bc2b033&tag=abbeywedgew01-20"> amazon</a>)</p>
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