Hell Island Reports Podcast

About Hell Island Reports Podcast

The voices of trans people, activists, and all others out on the frontlines of the fight for trans rights in the UK. hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast)

Publisher

Hell Island Reports

Category

news · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

23 Jul 2023

Latest episode

1 Apr 2024

Latest episodes

7 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   1 Apr 2024

   NetPol: Overview of Trans Protesting & Legislation

   The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act Overview: https://netpol.org/pcsc-act-2022/ The Public Order Act Explainer: https://netpol.org/2023/05/18/explainer-the-public-order-act-2023/#:~:text=Public%20Order%20Act%20allows%20for,one%20of%20the%20new%20offences. Being Trans And Protesting (PDF): https://greenandblackcross.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Being-Trans-and-Protesting-Protest-Key-Information.pdf Know Your Rights: https://netpol.org/know-your-rights/ Consider donating to the Free SJB campaign: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/free-sarah-jane-baker And consider donating to Medical Aid for Palestinians: https://www.map.org.uk/donate/donate - To support our work: https://ko-fi.com/hellislandreps - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Twitter: twitter.com/hellislandreps Instagram: instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: twitter.com/TRANSRIOTMUSIC This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

2. 

   18 Mar 2024

   Dr Jo Hartland: Reforming Education & Eradicating 'Conversion Therapy'

   TAB’s callout: https://x.com/TransActionBloc/status/1762785766386634810?s=20 Dr Ruth Pearce’s blogpost: https://ruthpearce.net/2024/03/03/rcgp-host-conversion-therapy-conference-in-london-protest-23-march/ - Consider donating to the Free SJB campaign: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/free-sarah-jane-baker And consider donating to Medical Aid for Palestinians: https://www.map.org.uk/donate/donate - To support our work: https://ko-fi.com/hellislandreps - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Twitter: twitter.com/hellislandreps Instagram: instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: twitter.com/TRANSRIOTMUSIC This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

3. 

   9 Feb 2024

   Brianna Ghey: The Transphobia in the Trial and the Media w/ Jess O'Thomson

   Content Warning: This episode is a discussion of the murder of 16 year old-Brianna Ghey and the transphobia that contributed to her death. While there will not be description of her injuries, there will be reference to upsetting evidence in the trial, and heavy themes are present throughout. Keep yourself safe. - This episode is an interview with Jess O’Thomson, legal researcher and writer. They reported on much of the trial and sentencing of Brianna’s killers, and have since written pieces for national papers about the trial and their experience of it. They can be found [at]jessothomson on Twitter, and jessothomson.co.uk. - Consider donating to the Free SJB campaign: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/free-sarah-jane-baker And consider donating to Medical Aid for Palestinians: https://www.map.org.uk/donate/donate - To support our work: https://ko-fi.com/hellislandreps - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Twitter: twitter.com/hellislandreps Instagram: instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: twitter.com/xfree99x This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

4. 

   23 Nov 2023

   Sarah Jane Baker: Anita Discusses Trial to Forced Medical Detransition

   There is now a demo calling for Sarah’s hormone treatment to be restarted! It’s at 11:30am on the 5th of December, meeting in London at Marble Arch W1H 7EJ Consider donating to the Free SJB campaign: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/free-sarah-jane-baker And consider donating to Medical Aid for Palestinians: https://www.map.org.uk/donate/donate - August interview with Anita for context surrounding Sarah's arrest and initial imprisonment: https://hellislandreports.substack.com/p/free-sarah-jane-baker Written summary of this episode: To support our work: https://ko-fi.com/hellislandreps - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Twitter: twitter.com/hellislandreps Instagram: instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: twitter.com/xfree99x This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

5. 

   10 Oct 2023

   On the Ground - Liverpool Counter Demo 08/10/23

   To support our work: https://ko-fi.com/hellislandreps - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: https://hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: https://xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: https://free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/xfree99x - TRANSCRIPTION FOLLOWS. [Intro music] On the 8th of October 2023, Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, KJK, or Posie Parker held a so-called ‘Let Women Speak’ rally in Liverpool. Her rally, comprised of between 50 and 100 people, was outnumbered by a counter-protest supporting trans rights of about 150 people with chanting and booing audible on KJK’s livestream. This is an audio account of the day. [On the ground] All right. Well, good morning from Liverpool. It is currently 12:27. And after amassing and an initial face off between around 40, let's say, members of KJK’s group and about 30 counter-demoers with bloc and stewards providing each side of the line, KJK’s group has now split off into the obligatory half circle to do their talks. It's tense. It's tense here. There's not much room down on this dock. A lot of tension in the air as we come up to the beginning of the afternoon. [In studio] It's important to note that during this initial face off prior to the majority of both demonstrations arriving, there was not a significant police presence. There were perhaps around five or six police officers. And the the line, the demarcation, between KJK’s let women speak and the counter-demonstration was made up of on one side, KJK’s marshals, all the regular faces. If you've been, you know. And black bloc on the counter-demonstrations side. This initial lack of police intervention will change throughout the day. Moving on. [On the ground] Well, it's been about 15, 20 minutes and the size of the counterprotest has grown quite considerably. I'd estimate perhaps about 100 people here now. And this is all happening a 5 minutes walk away from Labor Party conference. So two a******s in Liverpool today. [Repeated chanting from crowd] Trans lives matter! [Repeated chanting from crowd] Let women speak! Shut fascists up! [Crowd booing, before repeated chanting] Fascist scum off our streets! Right. It's 1:30. KJK’s just finished her speech and all the way through: A lot of booing, a lot of chanting from the 100 to 150 counterdemoers that are currently here. I think a lot of community turnout today, a lot of Liverpudlian accents as you walk around, a lot of chants of “no fascists” in Liverpool. I think this is an incursion into quite a supportive city from KJK. But as always, she's walled off with barriers and protected by the police. A lot of marshals around as well. A lot of, you know, wannabe cops for KJK. And you'll never guess which way the cops are facing. That's right. It's towards the counterdemo. So 1312 I guess. A brief intermission before the next speaker currently. Chanting continues. [In studio] Just for some additional context about some of the speakers and some of the right wing figures who were on the dock at Liverpool: This is reporting taken from the Trans Safety Network and the work of Jess O’Thompson. There was a speaker from Thoughtful Therapists, an organization which supports conversion therapy alongside right wing streamer figure Charles Veitch. Veitch ended up in a scuffle with a counter-protester who was blocking his camera and quite naturally which came out with the words “Thank God for the police”. So as always with KJK’s ‘Let women speak’ events, there was a lot of begging from the transphobe side for the police to intervene, for the police to do more in terms of protecting the rally and essentially asking for the police to shut down the counter-protest. And you see that every single time with these demos. Marshalls constantly begging police to do more, begging police to intervene on their side, despite the fact that there was a by this point, considerable police presence. By the end of the day, there were horses, police horses out on the dock. And of course the rally had its own segregated area with barriers and police enforcing those barriers. Now, here's some more raw audio. [Repeated chanting from crowd] Trans lives matter! [One shouts] Stop talking shite! [Repeated chanting from crowd] My body, my choice! [One shouts] Posie Parker is the gayest name I’ve ever heard! [Repeated chanting from crowd] F**k off fascists! [Booing from the crowd] After about an hour and a half of speeches, KJK and her lot started to pack up and left. From the brief bits of speeches I heard through the chanting and the booing, I wouldn't say there's much point in going to seek out clips other than a couple of darkly humorous moments, and of course, for monitoring purposes. But this is audio from the moment the KJK left. You can see video of it on the Hell Island Report's Twitter page at HellIslandReps. [Booing from crowd] Well, it is currently 2:50. A series of speeches. I’m not gonna lie, I didn't hear them being on this side. As I've said before, a lot of shouting, a lot of cheering, a lot of booing, a lot of a lot of chanting. But I think, yeah, the overwhelming feeling is is is a community coming out to tell Posie to f**k off. Just a lot of shouts of “get out of Liverpool” and “go home”, as you've heard. And it really is that sense of community that's come through today. Overall impressions from Liverpool on the 8th of October 2023 is that this was not an event that went well for okay. A lot of local community came out to tell her to leave. And she was outnumbered and out chanted by the counter-protest. And from the brief bits of live stream I've seen, the chanting and the booing comes through in the audio. It's hard for her to paint this as a win simply because so much of the community came out to tell her that she was not welcome, that this was a fascist incursion into Liverpool. And I think that's really the takeaway from Sunday. That's really what shone through. Accompanying video for this report will be available on Hell Island Reports’ pages. That's at HellIslandReps on Twitter, Instagram and Threads. It was brilliant to be on the ground at Liverpool to speak to some people from the local community and just to get out and tell Posie to f**k off. Thanks to Jess O’Thompson for their reporting on the speakers and those present on the flash side at Liverpool. If you'd like to help support the work of Hell Island Reports, you can donate at ko-fi.com/hellislandreps. And if you'd like to contribute your own reports or contribute to the reports that I'm putting together, just get in touch through any of our social media handles. Music for this episode is MINDBREAK.018m and by FREE99. You can find their music on NewGrounds, Bandcamp and YouTube. More reports to follow. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

6. 

   18 Aug 2023

   Free Sarah Jane Baker

   Next demos: 10am 22nd August at Westminster Magistrates Court 10am 31st August City of London Magistrates Court - Free Sarah Jane Baker details: Website: freesarahjanebaker.com Messages of support can be emailed to: Freesarahjanebaker@proton.me Crowdfunder: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/free-sarah-jane-baker Twitter: @freesarahjbaker Instagram: @freesarahjanebaker Facebook: Free Sarah Jane Baker If you'd like to get involed or have ideas for the campiagn, get in touch through the website. - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: https://hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: https://xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: https://free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/xfree99x - [Machine transcription, apologies for any inaccuracies.] Welcome to the Hell Island Reports podcast. I'm. This episode features an interview with Anita, partner of activist, creative, and trans woman Sarah Jane Baker, who was recently recalled to prison. Anita is part of a campaign called Free Sarah Jane Baker, who are raising money to send both to Sarah in prison, as well as helping Anita with living and campaigning costs. You're also able and encouraged to send messages of support to Sarah through an email and court support. Demos are being organized by Free Sarah Jane Baker. Links in the show notes. Before the interview, here's a quick timeline of recent events that surround Sarah. If you're not in the loop on the 8th of July, a London Trans Plus pride during an open mic session featuring other speakers. Sarah Jane Baker gave a speech, including the line "I was going to come here and be really fluffy and be really nice and say, Yeah, be really lovely and queer and gay. Nah, if you see a TERF, punch them in the f*****g face." After media coverage of Sarah's speech, Trans Plus Pride issued a statement highlighting the singling out of this moment to their event and what this says about the scrutiny and harassment of the trans community. "We do not condone violence. We do not back a call to arms for violence of any kind. We do condone righteous anger and the right to the free speech that was expressed yesterday. We have and will continue to march in peace." Sarah speech was reported to the bastion of impartial justice, the Metropolitan Police. However, they initially decided not to pursue charges or to view Sarah's speech as a breach of her license for a previous offense. However, this would change on the 12th of July, when Sarah Jane Baker was recalled on license and charged with using threatening or abusive words or behavior with intent to cause harassment, alarm or distress. On the same day her arrest was welcomed on Twitter by the Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, who said, "I'm glad the police have decided to investigate this incident at a trans pride event having initially closed it with no further action, I'm sure the police will consider the evidence carefully." Sarah has pleaded not guilty to this first charge. And as of the 17th of August, another charge against Sarah, that of intentionally encouraging the commission of an offense, is set to be lodged by prosecutors. Her next court appearance in London is set to be the 22nd of August. That's next Tuesday. And her trial is set to begin on the 31st of August. Now, her partner, Anita. [INTERVIEW BEGINS] K Have you been in contact with Sarah at all? Anita Yes. Yes. So she's able to find me, which is really good. Yeah. So she's in quite frequent phone contact with me. Yeah, I haven't seen her, but May, very good to talk. So that's good. K That's good. And how is she doing? Anita Yeah, I think she's very much sort of up and down. It's really tough environment. So she's in Wandsworth jail and she's which is obviously a male jail and she's on a vulnerable prisoner's wing, which is got a lot of sex offenders on it. And so it's a really tough environment for her to be on. Being a trans woman. Anita Yeah. And so, yeah. So that's all really difficult. And then, you know, there's the fact that she's in jail. It's all really because she might know she was in jail. Society is out on license and had been doing really well. And I think to go back to jail for this reason just feels, you know, really unfair, really and upsetting when she's begun to make a life for herself outside of jail. Anita Yeah. K How was the demo today in London? Anita Yeah. So it was then it was time very much went on there. I'm going into court and then coming back out. So I wasn't there for the whole time. But but yeah, we had, we had a good group of people outside and yeah, it's just I think, really important space to show the outside world that people care about. Anita Sarah and also about the issues. And also for Sarah herself to see that people are supporting her. And so that was, that was good and that went well. K What kind of in terms of the Free Sarah Jane Baker organization, what kind of response have you had from the community and also the press? Anita Yeah, So we've had and the campaign really was started fairly organically with people who knew about her being a particularly in the trans community and wanting to support her. And since then we've managed to set up social media and our website and we've been having these demonstrations. It's just great. There've been a couple of other events that we've been invited to to tell other groups about the organization as well. Anita And you know, it seems quite a lot of people know about it. So one of the events I went to had to still that and a lot of the people I was talking to were already knew about the campaign and about everything that was going on with Sarah. So that's, you know, really positive. And in terms of the press and we've had some press coverage from gay times and some pinknews which has been supportive and being great, I think, you know, wanting to sort of reach out to people. Anita I think now as the campaign has become a bit more established and I guess sort of broadening the sentiment and but yeah, that's been that's been positive. And so yeah, I mean, so far it seems like it's potentially quite a vibrant campaign. We've had several events and we've got more things planned and Sarah's got a poetry book that's going to be published and in the next couple of weeks. Anita So I'm expecting there to be events coming out of that as well. And yeah, so there's this, there's been a lot to do. K MM That's good. There's been a lot of support though. Anita I mean yeah, Yeah. I mean the first, you know, when she first was arrested the number of people contacting me was this huge, you know, issues and contact with so many people who were wanting to help and wanting to find out what had happened and what to do and how she was safe. And yeah, there's just she's just in touch with so many people now. Anita It's just really in so many people who really care about her. K Hmm. So just to move on to actually sort of the the circumstances surrounding her arrest, quite a few people are speculating that it was in some way motivated after they reopen the investigation. Is that belief in in a motivation, something that you share? Anita I mean, I think that and you know what happened, she obviously made her speech at trans pride. And I think that you can see from the initial response from police and probation how something like that would normally be dealt with. So originally, the police didn't feel there was any need for further action and probation will say, of the visit. Anita And this wasn't something that she would need to be recalled for. And, you know, base agencies changed their mind. So she was then arrested and charged and we called and I think it seems pretty clear that the difference with Sarah is about things like Daily Mail articles and that when the police reopen the investigation and similar problem, then put out a tweet saying that she is glad about that and that she was sure that they would look at the evidence carefully. Anita I think the society side and I so I think that it to me, it looks as though this is something that is politically motivated and she's being treated differently because of the politics of this. I mean, I think this is part of part and parcel of the culture war that is focusing so much on trans people and also, you know, it doesn't affect anyone quite so much as it's affecting Sarah right now. Anita I think it is something that should be of interest to lots of people because if this is what can be done to Sarah, then that's, that's you know, it raises a question about what can happen to other people as well. And it's you know, I feel like it's it is all to do with the push against trans people in the trans community as a whole and, you know, coming down more and more harshly on on protesters and freedom of speech. Anita All of these issues, I think, are involved. And it's you know, it's not a thing, I guess, in isolation. It's not that they it's not all about Sarah, You know, it's in there. It's in the context of what's going on that's affecting our whole society. So you you know, I think the basic thing about solidarity is that if you allow people to get picked off, then it's bad for everybody. Anita And so it's it's really important for people to, you know, to be in solidarity with each other when something like this happens. K Yeah. Yeah. Are you getting a lot of you've talked a bit about like the support you've been getting certainly from the trans community. Have you been getting more intersectional support? Like is there any overlap with arrests, like the arrests of, like ecological protesters, like just oil and things like that? Anita Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, people that are campaigning around trans issues are often campaigning about lots of different issues at the same time. So yeah, a lot of the people are also campaigning around environmental issues and human rights issues and, you know, things affecting migrants. So, yeah, I think that these things are all such as into why and that and you know, I know Sarah would say that actually it's not really about being trans, it's about freedom. Anita And I think that's true. I think you know, you can say it the other way that the the government are waging a culture war against lots of groups of people in society. The casino being treated as scapegoats for the fact the government is not doing a good job at all in terms of cutting services and their management of the economy. Anita And so, yeah, I think these things are all interlinked and you know, people that are campaigning on one issue are quite often campaigning on multiple different issues as well, because, you know, it is about people kind of having having that freedom and groups of people that sometimes, you know, I suppose the powers that be want us to look at people as being different. Anita And I think that's a really dehumanizing. But all sorts of people are sort of labeled as different, whether they're trans or migrants or know, I think the trans phobia has an awful lot in common with how the fiber as well and what affecting trans people is will affect the whole LGBTQ community as well. K I don't know how much you can speak to. I'm not sure how long you and Sarah have known each other. Anita Mm. K But after her release she became quite ubiquitous, almost in the London trans political scene. I mean, what point did you meet her in, in, in her doing that. Anita Yeah. So I met Sarah about a year after she was released, and. And I think Sarah's always been somebody to campaign, even when she was in jail, she was always writing letters to people and trying to to network with people as much as she could and trying to help people to stand up for their rights. So that's always been the, you know, things that she was interested in even before she came out of jail. Anita She wrote two books while she was in jail. And her art is political. So, you know, she's been getting things out and getting attention for ideas and for a long time. So I suppose it is natural that when she came out of jail, she's going to carry on doing that and carrying on campaigning. And I think doing that probably through lots of different means. Anita So, yeah, being on, being on podcasts and writing articles and in the past and being part of events and things that she would do, being part of protest, making speeches, and that she also supported people very much on a 1 to 1 level as well. So there was a lot of people in lots of different ways that she was in contact with who she would be supporting and trying to help, you know, in whatever way she could. Anita And I think I saw that a lot when she did when she was arrested, as a lot of people contacted me. And I sort of realizing that, you know, those people that whether it was talking to people or having met up with them or just having chats online, some people should be messaging for years and not even just people in this country, people in other countries as well. Anita And that felt, you know, she had really supported them and done a huge amount for them. So, yeah, I think she's she's done these things on lots and lots of different issues. And I'm not so different levels. And yeah, not just about trans people. I know she spent a lot of time with the SO Pictures Too campaign in particular. Anita She worked with BlackLivesMatter and Yeah. So and as you say, dealing with things around prisoners rights as well and so yeah she's I guess always been somebody that is interested in campaigning but also supporting people, you know, 1 to 1 as well as much as she could. K Mm. I've never really sort of talked to her for particularly long but like just going to vigils and protests in London, like she's very ubiquitous there and very present. So like Yeah. And then for her to suddenly not be after London trans pride is. Anita Yeah. I guess, I don't know. I suppose I've just seen things through my perspective I suppose of being have how and it's interesting to think about how she's seen maybe by people who don't know her well enough as you see in her giving speeches or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, I, I think she should certainly be glad to know that she's she's had a heart attack and she's, you know, as a person very engaging and and very creative. Anita So, you know, in different sort of environments. If we were somewhere, you know, has an event where people play music or something, then she'd be up on stage and playing guitar. And I think and she's a fantastic guitarist and she's also someone who I encourages. Other people say, you know, she wouldn't just be there performing, trying to get all the limelight herself. Anita She'd be encouraging other people who may be affected. Shall we center to come and jam with her? And in a checking if they know the song she's playing and, you know, the chords that she's that she's using and encouraging people. And, you know, similarly with with art, if she's got people around her who are photographers or artists, then, you know, should always be looking at what they're doing and encouraging people, I think, to to reach their potential. Anita She's not she's never somebody to try and put other people down. She's somebody to sort of encourage people to, you know, to to make the most of of the talents and creativity that they have as well. And yeah. K In terms of the Free Sarah Jane Baker organization, how has that organizing gone and how is that the the behind the scenes work of court support and and demos and things like that? How has that gone over the last couple of weeks? Anita Yeah. So it's I mean, I think partly because she has built up this network of people that she's been campaigning with and many of whom she knows personally, you know, over some time. And it's it's, it's not as though I've had to sort of go and try and build something from nothing. That is, there's a group of people who are really quite committed to it, do it, doing what they can, as I say, both to raise issues and to support Sarah. Anita And so I suppose there's a bit of a natural grief of people coming together to work on that. And you know, of course within that different people have got different levels that they're able to commit. But yeah, it's it's been, you know, a lot of people doing things together and there's obviously lots of practical things of designing fliers and doing social media and trying to network with people and and, you know, making banners and and all sorts of different things. Anita So yeah, so it's been work that's been done by a lot of people, not just not just one or two people. So, yeah, I mean, it's been busy, He's been really busy and, and he's it's something I suppose, that has happened in response to something. So it's, it's not just that I was a I long planned before we launched some they just, we literally had when you know, when we knew she was going to be in court the next day, we put a call out at 9:00 in the evening for people to get together, 10:00 the next morning. Anita So there was hardly any notice till and then people judge me. So this is and it's something obviously that's evolving because, I mean, today we found out that there's going to be an additional day in court. So obviously there has to be an additional demo. So yeah, so you have to sort of change what you're doing and be flexible and do things with little notice and, you know, and something that I expect will change and develop in time as we go on as well. Anita And so, you know, I mean, it's a vibrant campaign. It's been very busy, but I think there's good reason to think it will continue to to to grow and get stronger as we go along. Hmm. K That's really good. Well, what's next? I mean, there's the 31st for your demo and the actual trial beginning, isn't it? Anita Yeah. So what happened today is apparently the Crown wants to put an additional charge, which doesn't sound as they will make much difference. This is a similar sort of thing to watch out what what's already there and the fact that they want to do that means that she needs to be in court to plead guilty or not guilty. Anita And she was supposed to be in court today and that wasn't because. Yeah, the organization of the court system is the complete farce. So I think somebody didn't put her name on a list of people that would have been transferred from Wandsworth to come to court. And then somehow I think possibly because they thought she'd be in court in person, there then wasn't a videolink for her to be on video link either. Anita And you know so you have court discussing something when she's not even there which it always amazes me that when you have all of these very well educated and well dressed people speaking very politely in circumstances and it's such a complete ha, I don't know how they can keep their composure. I mean I that's yeah. You just think, wow, if you can't even get the person that the case is about to be able to attend and how you know you're supposed to be for people who are making these huge life changing decisions, but you can't even sort out your transport or if video. Anita I think it's just yeah, I don't know. You know, who'd be funny if it wasn't serious and chap But anyway, so you asking what's next. I think I'm going off on a tangent. So what that meant is that I needed an extra day in court, so that will be the 22nd. So that's, that's the next date that we have. Anita So that's Tuesday. So we've got a few days to put a demonstration together because we will have a demonstration outside court every day that Sandra is in court and and then after that it will be the trial date is the 31st of August. And so that's the next couple of things that we've got coming up. But I'm sure there'll be more to be announced soon. K No, I mean, I've never I haven't interacted well, I haven't interacts with the court system myself. But like people around me, I've never heard a good story about the courts running efficiently or effectively. So, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess it's disgraceful considering this is all based on the police back like you turning on, on dropping the investigation anyway now. Anita Yeah. I mean it's, you know, I don't know, you sort of look at these people and it's all supposed to be about rules and laws and yet and how it's implemented just feels like it's arbitrary in I mean I know. Well we might say well what you expect, you know, but it just seems so blatant and and yet, you know, when you send somebody to prison, you have just a huge effect on their lives, obviously, and everybody around them. Anita And and it just doesn't seem I mean, when Sarah first was arrested, you know, she's in a prison police station initially, and then you get sent to the jail, some court, and there's literally no one can contact you. It's like she didn't have all sign numbers. I didn't know where she was. Her solicitors didn't know where she was. Anita Nobody knew where she was. And I think this is such a traumatic thing to happen to some of the day. And for someone to be taken away to somewhere and told that they can't make any contact with any of the people that care about them for days. And I just feel like there's I can't understand how if in any way you think that prison can rehabilitate people, how you think that's going to help anything. Anita And it just seems completely inhumane and utterly unnecessary. And and yet that's the norm. That's just what happens to people. Yeah. And there's so many people in prison with serious mental health difficulties and know it's just putting them into a situation that's really traumatizing and removing all of their support. And so, yeah, I find it it's I know I knew about a lot of these things before. Anita You know, what people have told me about the justice system and about prison, But to have the experience of somebody that you love dearly and just treated that way and, you know, is is something else really scary to me. K It makes makes the court support all the more important. Anita And yeah so I don't know what your question doesn't seem to come and. K Neither it's just a bit of attention Is that okay? I mean do you have any I mean, I can't imagine you you must be thinking about what it must be thinking because it far ahead with everything that's going on. But I mean, do you do you and or Sarah have sort of plans beyond the next month? Because I know there was talk somewhere about standing as an MP, Sarah doing that. K There's her poetry. Yeah. If there's anything else you're thinking about. Anita I'd say. And yeah, I mean, she wanted to send an MP in the next general election. I think she won't be able to stand. I don't think if she's in prison I believe you can stand if you're just going to be in prison for a short period of time. But she's on a life license. She's on what's on the life license and is now serving a life sentence again. Anita And I know she wouldn't be able to do that while she's in jail, but, you know, when she comes out and she would be able to stand in the next general election once she's out. And so, yeah, she has a Poochie book coming out. And I think we have plans as a campaign for a number of other such events. Anita But they're not completely confirmed yet. But we expect to have more to announce in the near future because, you know, Sarah is a very creative person and a lot of the people involved in the campaign are very creative as well. So, you know, we hope to do things like have exhibitions, poetry readings and other performances, different sorts of events over time, which hopefully will raise issue, raise funds and be enjoyable events in themselves as well. Anita So but it's yeah, it's obviously really difficult to plan because I don't know how long. Sarah is going to be in jail for and neither does she say, yeah, anyone that that doesn't know, it doesn't matter what the outcome is in terms of how long she's in prison and then if she's found not guilty in the current court proceedings, then she will still be in jail because she was recalled to jail and because she was under license and then she will be needing to apply for parole. Anita And it's not clear when she might be able to do that. I believe they've got a big backlog in terms of processing parole hearings. The nearest idea that I've had about that or been given is that it's likely to be March or April next year at the earliest. So yeah, so it's well, we'll have to have to see. Anita It's very difficult to plan when you don't know what's going down then. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have to have to see, you know, but at some point she'll be out again and I'm sure that she will be continuing to campaign. K I mean, that's everything I had written down. I don't know if there's anything else you want to cover. Anita And I don't know really. I feel I've done quite a lot of talking. I think just for people to sort of know how to get in touch with the campaign, that even if, you know, some of your listeners might not be based in London or even in the country and there's still things that you can do to support Sarah. Anita You can send messages of support. There's a link to do that as an email address and sharing social media, things like that. It's always very helpful and that, you know, there's a group of people in Brighton now who are setting up a campaign for her as well. I've got someone who's traveling back to Italy who will be talking to campaigning groups there. Anita And so, you know, I think there's there's whether someone is, you know, able to help with creative things or just help spread the word or send messages to her. And there's many, many different things that can be done to support her. So, you know, please, obviously to this is just please do get in touch and and and help help with the campaign And that it's not just for Sarah it's also to really build things about justice and about people, you know, people not being sent to jail for political reasons and and about trans rights. Anita And I guess the overarching thing is, is just about human liberation. And, you know, living in a society where people can be themselves. So, yeah, there's lots of lots of good reasons to get involved and lots of different ways that people can do something. K Okay. I mean, I'll be sure to have links to the campaign in Shownotes and all other section at the end of them out. I mean, if she. Anita Want to say one more thing, you probably just I know Sarah would want as well to just say to everybody that's involved in supporting her how much she appreciates it and that she loves you all. And yeah, I know she just me to pass on. Yeah. [INTERVIEW ENDS] Thank you so much to Anita for her time. Links to the website, the Crowdfunder social media and an email address to send messages of support can all be found in the show notes, but the main site is free. Sarah Jane Baker dot com. If you have ideas or want to get involved in the campaign, you can also message through the website if you're in London or able to travel the next demo's planned in support of Sarah are being held 10 a.m. on the 22nd of August. K That's next Tuesday a Westminster Magistrates Court and 10 a.m. on the 31st of August at the City of London Magistrates Court. Our opening and closing music is MindBreak.018m by free 99. It's not really about being trans, it's about freedom. Thanks for listening to Hell Island. More reports soon. [END TRANSCRIPTION] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

7. 

   23 Jul 2023

   Trans Liberation Cambridge

   Welcome to Hell Island Reports, talking to the groups and organisers on the frontlines of the UK's struggle for Trans Rights. This time, we talk to Trans Liberation Cambridge, an affinity group based in the city. Their links follow: Twitter: twitter.com/TransLibCam Instagram: instagram.com/trans.liberation.cambridge/ Queer Radicals Self Defence sessions: instagram.com/p/CuRO5kaMsvd/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== - Follow Hell Island Reports' other work at: Instagram: instagram.com/hellislandreps/ Substack: hellislandreports.substack.com/ - Music is MINDBREAK.018m by FREE.99: Bandcamp: xfree99x.bandcamp.com/ Newgrounds: free99.newgrounds.com Twitter: twitter.com/xfree99x - TRANSCRIPTION [Machine transcription, apologies for inaccuracy]: K: This is the Hell Island Reports podcast talking to groups and their organizers on the frontlines of the fight for Trans Rights in the United Kingdom. I'm “K”. And this episode I talk to “A” from the affinity group Trans Liberation Cambridge. Now, before we begin, on the 20th of July, there was a demo at Westminster Magistrates Court in solidarity with political prisoner Sarah Jane Baker, and there likely be more demos against her imprisonment. K: So do keep your eyes peeled for more details. Trans Liberation Front Bristol are co-hosting a fundraiser for Themselves and Trans Safety Network with Bristol Anarchist Federation with drag and music, including musician Evan Greer at the Exchange on the 28th of August. Now onto Trans Liberation Cambridge. A: So Trans Liberation Cambridge. First of all, it's an affinity group. And just to give a small, short definition for people who might not know what an affinity group is, so an affinity group is a group of people who come together to organize a campaign on a specific issue. And this kind of group might often exist in a wider network of activists. A: They could be members of this group, could be from multiple different groups or could be it could be a subset of a larger group. And the point of having this affinity group is to facilitate these people to work together, either to change something, either in a wider group they're part of or in wider society. And what Chelsea does more or less is we organize it, promote protests and actions. A: We do community building, community building, which includes things like, for example, the clubs swaps that Chelsea has been doing for a while now, the open mic nights, social events. We also monitor local anti trans people, so to speak, including to prevent local institutional capture. We also do solidarity and support for student actions and solidarity and support for some of the London actions, like, for example, on the rock or the happenings with Posy Parker. K: You talk about monitoring in Cambridge. What what is the situation like in Cambridge? I mean, with the university, but also just in generally in the town. A: So the thing is, with Cambridge, I think I've heard that from some of trade union pals some good years ago. Some some of them described to Cambridge as being the I like the council, the birthplace, but like a like a strong stronghold. The turf is the military used to call it, because it has a bit of a history when it comes to specific people within politics and the academia that have launched themselves on a platform of either, well, concerns or anti-trans hate, for example. A: And since it used to be a Cambridge councilor that resigned after the council renewed a basically a fair equality policy around the use of gendered facilities by trans people. But the use of those specific facilities of their gender and she kind of resigned in protest over the inclusive policy that up till then was no and no problem at all. A: But for mostly no one. She then went on to co-found the LGB Alliance, which is quite interesting, seeing that she is a married straight woman. But, you know, I guess things like that do happen. I mean, there's there's other people and groups who have felt, well, like, for example, because because Cambridge University and it's quite the place of renown. A: There's people that do like things like, you know, coming here to do certain talks, like for something caffeine stock came to Harvard the Cambridge debater in free speech union. I don't know what the full name of it is. It's called Cambridge University. In short, it's sort of like a debate society. So we did organize with students supporting for that one to do a protest, basically to show that, you know, expressing both sides views when it comes to trans people is really not an okay thing to do. A: Basically. Other things that have happened, I mean, there has been like for a while there was this thing called the respect my sex campaign or respect my sex if you want my ex, which sounds weird when you say it. I think it makes more sense when it's written. There was this was a group formed between the group Sex Matters founded by me for Start There, the Women's Rights Network, which is a countrywide, let's say, MIT level activism group, trying to push back gender critical anti-trans narratives. A: And another group called Women Uniting, which was a cross-party group trying to do this similar thing. And it was basically those between like different people from different political parties, including Labor, conservatives, Greens and so on, people who in their particular party may not have been happy about, let's say their political party was necessary at that time, pushing for anti-trans narratives. A: And they from this campaign to pressure or at least sort of like publicly highlight, like to pressure politicians into into giving into their narrative or then to see if more people agreed with them and or to highlight the politicians that already agreed with their narrative. And but at the time, TLC, that was to counter that by first and foremost well, in sending questions to our local councilors or candidates for council and simply asking them basically about, you know, their support for trans rights. A: And then, of course, publishing that. So everyone who wants to vote can know what their councilor thinks about trans rights and not pressuring, of course, because, you know, no one can pressure a I mean, no one should be pressuring a local politician into doing one thing or another. But, you know, we should know what the people we vote for think and want to do. A: And in my opinion, that was quite a good action that TLC did, because we showed very well that the vast majority of the local councilors were either indifferent or supportive of trans rights. That's reassuring trans people and allies within Cambridge that they can safely vote for someone that will not take their rights away when we try to. That might lead to indignity towards trans people. A: And in the process, it caused a lot of the those who were in that respect my sex campaign to, well, first of all, lose steam and morale because they saw very well that none of them were supportive of their narrative. One single candidate was, but that was insufficient to actually, well, gain anything. And that person actually didn't get any support. A: Funny enough, the funniest thing to me was when we got the results of the census and it turned out that the ward with which that candidate was in had more trans people than the votes the candidate got. K: So a lot of that, at least statistically speaking. A: But yeah. K: So do you think a lot of the like you called it a stronghold of Terf is but then does a lot of that like academic Terf is not really transfer over into like community in Cambridge like is there a divide between like people coming in and doing debates and talks, giving like very gender critical ideas, But then actually in the town itself, it's a lot more chill than that. A: Yeah, I mean, the thing is like I personally didn't call it the stronghold of academic TERFism. I've heard that it being called by some pals who have been here for a long, long time. And you are right in that there's that veneer of like, okay, this is like a majority opinion. You know, they're coming. They come here and they start, you know, doing these like academy academic debates and they want to position themselves as being the commonsense position when you are very, very much right. A: Like most people in town, I would say would not have an opinion to start with when it comes to trans people in general. And in my experience, most people, if they do have an opinion, it tends to be like neutral to positive. Like very few people share those like very specific ideological points that people who align themselves with, let's say, gender critical transphobia. A: Very few people have those those ideological points in mind. K: Have you seen a shift in Cambridge? And like with the current panic around trans people, is that been like a shift in Cambridge around those views or is it still most people are quite neutral on the issue? A: Honestly, I think most of the changes that happen to people's attitudes don't necessarily come from the academics. They mostly influence the people in the higher strata of society. So for example, Kathleen Stock or even Helen Joyce and I'll be coming back to the Helen Choice bit in a bit, you know, talking either in, let's say a big paper or writing, you know, article or fancy articles or even coming to have talks with other people who go to these kind of debates because, you know, most people won't go actually, most people won't even have money to have membership to, let's say, the Cambridge Debates Union. A: Right. So your average person from Cambridge doesn't tend to listen to these kind of things rather, most people will be influenced by broad newspapers like The Daily Mail and even other kinds of newspapers, because even the Cambridge Independent, for example, has at one time published a more let's let's call it a trans skeptical article. So, yeah, those those kind of things tend to influence people rather than these kind of debates. A: It's rather more like down to earth news and tabloids. And if there has been a slight change in attitudes, I'd say over the years, from my personal experience, I think some, but I think it's mostly the people who already were hateful to start with have been emboldened to show it more visibly. And I think some people have been scared away from being allies because some sometimes allies do get hate. A: Then sometimes people, if they're not invested enough in being allies, they will feel the brunt of, let's say, you know, they they stop losing sight of, you know, why are the allies, because they're getting hate and they don't understand, you know, what they're achieving. So they can kind of stop being as vocal. Because if you remember, like a couple of years ago, everyone used to do that thing when they would put pronouns in their bio and your emails and or like accounts at work. A: And then, well, I don't know if that's necessarily the most like strongest allyship, but, you know, that was something. And then people kind of slowly start to remove those because, you know, they just wanted to people to be more quiet about it, which is, you know, at the end of the day, that's slightly sad because those people who, you know, may not be strong allies, but like they were not hateful people. A: They didn't hold those ideological views that, you know, gender critical people do, for example, or even Far-Right people, there's a big overlap there that even very people do, but they're driven to not be as vocal, that they're just okay with trans people. And then they feel as it feels as if there's less people who are just okay, even though, you know, most of them would not have changed their opinions, that they don't have a greater fear. A: Like a lot of opinions about trans people to start with. So all coming back to that, like, um, I guess academia is coming because I mentioned Helen Joyce. We did. So this one was in collaboration with the student union. Um, and basically what we did is because this is, this is what's called diversity of tactics, because the student union would not be able to do things like, for example, to cause more severe disruption. A: Nothing stops us from doing that. So some of, you know, some of us being louder, we're allowed to do that because we are just tun. The student union wasn't able to do that. So, you know, then they're able to bring numbers and, you know, make sure people's safety and we're able to the allow people some of us actually attended Helen Joyce's talk at the time for a combination of reasons, including to assess the situation of what exactly is this right because sometimes you can't even have there's recordings, you might get snipped, parts you might not get to the context of how many people are actually attending these events, what kind of people are attending, you A: know, what's the chat about? Because anything that's recorded intentionally, you know, tends to be picked and sanitized. I mean, I would, you know, if I wanted to do a PR for a group or a company, I wouldn't, you know, just randomly record myself saying things about it. I would pick, you know, a time and a place and I would pick the topics I'd want to discuss. A: And yeah, one of the surprises that I had listening to the let's see what was happening in the room, so to speak, was because there was it was framed as if it was a a debate. But it actually the format was more or less of an interview. And actually I'd seen more or less of a book club because the majority of people who attended were people who already either agreed with Helen Joyce or very much held the same views. A: So some of the local transphobes, um, a small number of students that strongly agreed with Joyce and a few, I guess, academics who were interested in making a networking. And the thing that surprised me about listening to Helen Joyce was how much more hateful she sounded in person than in writing, I think because she doesn't really have, um, I wouldn't call it media training or like she, she's not very good in interviews in controlling what information she gives, and she just talks very honestly, which is a disadvantage to her because her that hate basically comes very transparently out of the way she speaks. A: Part of what struck me was how she very transparently kind of stated that she was annoyed that she couldn't talk about, you know, bigoted ways about trans people. And now she's so happy that she found a way to do that. K: That's a lovely thing to say. A: Yeah. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, of course. Yeah. But it was it was quite shocking to, like, put that together, listening to her and understanding, wait, so this is just like a, like a kid who, um, you know, finds a naughty word and then is still happy that this kid, the kid could just say these naughty words somewhere and one get in trouble. A: And it's because she was talking about how she introduced the concept of how ostracism is death and how basically she feels that if she can't say what she wants to say, that feels like ostracism and therefore it's like being given a death sentence or something like that, which was just out there. Big brain stuff. I don't know if it was it was it was surreal to listen to that. A: And honestly, I don't recommend to anyone to subject themselves to that because I did not have a good time listening to her words honestly. K: No, it's. A: Always yeah. K: It's always interesting going in person to something and then like hearing which bits they leave out when they like to put it on YouTube or something on Twitter, like seeing the selected woman minute clips on Twitter and then you go and it's so much more insane. A: And the thing is right, because I wanted to one of my original intentions was that I want to write down, you know, like sort of because there was a bit of a questions and answers and I wanted to ask some questions to clarify things that I thought, you know, would at least show to the rest of the public some level of, okay, so this is her real opinion on this. A: But as I was writing things on a notepad trying to formulate okay, she said she said this someone to ask about this, I realized that she was going from topic to topic that was semi unrelated, like, for example, when she suddenly started talking about pedophilia. And in the middle of of all of this, which was quite like a shift of topic, like she started talking about trans people, she started she just inserted a sort of that she doesn't think she should have never said that trans people are pedophiles, but then she keeps this she talks for 10 minutes about pedophilia. A: And once her points was that apparently she at least to her from her recount of history, it was when with gay liberation it was difficult to actually what was it finally to point out the abusers or pedophiles because it wasn't P.C. to talk about gay pedophiles or something like that. And thing is that I, I had just the previous week or the week before I just read out from Giovanni's book. A: It's not unusual, a gay and lesbian history of Britain. And I do not recall reading the entire book anything talked about any talk there about how much of a problem they are on political correctness was back in the days when it comes to pointing out abusers or something like that. You know, like it was it was just shocking to hear this like thing that she was trying to construct. A: But what she's basically trying was show thing to say is that she should be allowed to just point at trans people and say groomer or pedophile or whatever, because I don't know, because basically she thinks that there's a PC culture that won't allow you to to point out the actual abusers when it's really, really not the truth. K: I mean, we keep seeing that strategy from a lot of like gender critical people of of just sort of throwing everything out in an argument and just talking about like violence and violence against women and like and pedophilia and stuff like that. And then they just throw everything at the wall and you listen and you're not quite sure what you can say about any of it, because where do you even start? A: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, it is it is a strategy. So calling your opponent a groomer or abuser or pedophile, when obviously they are not, is a very good strategy because it pulls on specific heartstrings, especially in the UK with the, um, very specific cultural sensitivities around child abuse. When I say this, I mean like specific things that have happened and or the way the public approaches. A: Yeah. Topics. K: Yeah. I mean, really the easiest way to insult someone is just give them like Jimmy Savile and then Yeah, yeah. On the, on Helen Joyce's book club, what was the action outside the because it was, it was reported quite widely, especially in places like the Daily Mail about like the masked protesters outside for TLC. What was that what was that action like? A: It was I mean, I would call it standard demo stuff, chants, um, you know, making the noise, making sure they hear us inside. Because, you know, that's the thing as well. If, if a demo isn't heard, if you are only talking to the people in your own demo, it's not really a demo right at the end of the day, Like if you were to hold a protest in a forest where you would hold speeches to each other, it wouldn't really be a protest. A: It would just be a party. The effectiveness of a demonstration or protest is that particular people or even a lot of people, you know, will hear you. Disruption is important. So noise was one of the things being as close as possible to where this was being held. So they can very well hear us, you know, banging pots and pans, chanting all the fun stuff. K: And do you think you were hurt in the actually inside the debate hall? A: Uh, yes. I think the actually on the recording it might be audible quite a few times when specific pots and pans were. And I think I think actually if I remember correctly, Helen Joyce kind of paused at one point because it was getting very loud. So I would say that was that was effective. And then after putting that message across of, you know, we know you're here, we know what you're saying, and just say, no, we don't agree. A: So, you know, you can't you can't just come and, you know, seem to say these things and just, you know, not be challenged basically. And thing is right because the the the general vibe I get from these kind of events is they always say, oh, well, you know, we invite people to actually have a healthy debate and, you know, have a discussion, all these things. A: But the thing is, right there was from the start, the first thing that's that was said because they probably saw some queer people that were in the in the room and they said, oh, you know, if you're just here to wave trans flags, that you might as well leave. And, you know, when you start with those kind of things of, Oh, if this is your political opinion, please leave, then, you know, it's not really a you not inviting people to discuss it anyway. A: Second of all, you know, inviting someone to discuss when the rhetoric is very caustic, especially, you know, towards a minority group, it's not really something most people can and would do. It's a difficult situation to put oneself, you know, to discuss when your identity and existence are under attack. To some people it may be a theoretical discussion, but, you know, to trans people it isn't because, you know, it's you are the target of that rhetoric. A: We can imagine, you know, trying to talk in front of a ton of people. And your opponent insists, well, the debate over the topic is whether or not you are a groomer and you're the one being under attack. Your opponent doesn't get that kind of flack. Your opponent just gets to freely make assumptions and use hyperbole and, you know, tug on heartstrings and what they call common sense to paint you as someone who is to be feared and someone who is doing things wrong just for existing, you know what's funny? A: The person who organized that, what's his name? Oh, mad because he was he was just appointed to an interesting position some time ago. So he was she was invited by I first met a fellow of Granville and Caius. So this is public knowledge, by the way, a professor I have. I've met fellow Granville and Caius, invited what hosted the talk, and later on, I think she got the point that a position within the HRC. A: And then later on there was discussions about appointing him as some sort of, like, free speech czar by one of the was it the Education Ministry or something like that. So basically you might see this pattern where someone launches themselves into this kind of career of, okay, I'm the one who actually opens up the, you know, the talk, the discussions. A: I'm not saying, you know, I'm with one thing, one position or the other. I'm just inviting just facilitating a discussion and then gets appointed to this in that position. Um, and launches themselves into, you know, a kind of career. K: Basically a brief. Ahmed is now a commissioner for the HRC after being appointed by Kemi Badenoch earlier in 2023 and in June of 2023, he was appointed as the Director for Freedom of Speech and Academic Freedom at the Office for Students. A: The funny thing about all of these ones, right, because so all of these ones that we did in collaboration with the Students union, I would say, you know, this kind of collaboration was very flexible in that either we organized and, you know, they came to our kind of thing and we of course, we did it as a joint venture, so to speak, or they organized. A: And we also brought our numbers and helped with stewarding and so on. So we kind of like flexibly organize between the two groups. The funny thing is, a lot of the times when we when it was covered or when specific anti-trans actors would talk about us, when I say us, I mean us and the students. They would always label the entire group of protesting people as students, young students, specifically, even when it came to the people who were in the room, by the way, listening to or the last time when the walkout was being done, we were labeled as being like very young people or students. A: But till has members all the way from, you know, from students age to like forties and we are all active in organizing and doing stuff. But there's a narrative there that's trying to be struck off because there's a specific narrative, like the privileged young students who doesn't understand the world and is just like, you know, just having a tantrum because this is a used, often used words for people who do activism for for trans rights that we're trying tantrums. A: It's a form of infantilizing to basically suggest that we have no understanding of, you know, what we're actually doing, that we're just being, you know, offended snowflakes to use an old Internet term, you know, that, you know, and that also this is just the students that it is that that doesn't concern the working class people of Cambridge, even though some of the TLC know quite a lot are working class. A: You know, it was it was and always will be a town and gown action because it concerns everyone in Cambridge. And you know it's you know, it's frankly insulting to hear at this level of infantilizing and that even the students would know what they're protesting or to assume whether or not the students protesting are privileged or not. You know, it's it's frankly insulting, but they use this narrative to de-legitimize their position. K: MM Yeah. I mean, I guess that's like quite a wide narrative. I mean, you even see that narrative with like, like ecological protests, like, like just a hotel where it's is protest. It's like students and I mean even teenagers who are out there like doing s**t that adults don't, and then they just get slated in the Daily Mail for like, you know, these kids don't even know what they're on about, whereas it's sort of their futures and everyone's futures that that they're doing this for. K: But they just get swept under the rug for, as you say, throwing a tantrum rather than. Yeah, yeah. They have the. A: Irony of it is like I think you might have seen that action done by Western Oxford. Yes. Against something talk with a protester glued themselves to the ground in front of her and but it didn't do anything else. Just stood there as a sign of defiance, basically. They absolutely got like infantilized in the worst way possible. And when they found out that this person was related to a climate activist, I think they definitely use that a lot. A: But the thing is, right when it comes to demos, especially those kind of demos where you are, your face will start appearing, let's say in the newspaper. Some people use the fact that they have, let's say, more privilege or less disadvantage than other people within their affinity group to do demos. Like, that's kind of the point. Like the people who are already at a massive disadvantage shouldn't be the people who should do these kind of actions because they put themselves at risk like you wouldn't do. A: You wouldn't want to force people who suffer racism to do anti-racist action. Like you wouldn't say, Oh, you know, when aren't they doing it? You wouldn't want to force them to be the ones exclusively doing it. You'd want people who also, you know, allies to also do or more privileged people to also do that action because they wouldn't suffer, let's say, from, you know, actual racists trying to, you know, harm them as much. A: MM You would use that privilege as a shield because otherwise, you know, if we would only fight for our own personal, let's say, well we want to fight our own personal oppression, then we end up, first of all, not getting a lot done because, you know, when you're a minority, it's kind of harder to fight. Second of all, we would achieve nothing on a larger scale. A: The only way to achieve change is through strong allyship and intersectionality and understanding where the strengths lie and whether you can balance, you know, people's disadvantages and people's strengths or privileges like of course, that person took upon themselves to do that because they knew they might suffer less than someone who, let's say, you know, was already in a much, much less privileged position and would get a lot more flak. A: You know, if they did it. K: Mm. I mean we've talked a lot about like TLC's demo actions, I, you recently had an open mic night if you want to like just talk briefly about that and how that went and like what other, what other causes and and actions TLC take on. A: Well, community building, I would say it's a very community building is a very important aspect because at the end of the day, you know, you may organize as many demos as you want. You might do direct action, but if you don't have any place to come home to any community, to you don't feel safe and you don't have anywhere to recharge. A: And also community building creates resilience. Some of the things we do well, I mean, like you mentioned and like I mentioned open mic nights and I'd say those those go quite well. Everything from spoken word poetry to just singing deejaying since all sorts of people come to it. And it's great to see like this mix of mix, the people that like our events will do it and should do one maybe next month for Club swap. A: This is more or less we've got like a well, we were in combination with some other groups, we've got some people that we get to donate to posts and then people can either donate some of their wardrobe and get some back. People seem to appreciate this kind of thing. I imagine it's like a sort of like a twist thrift store, but without necessarily have to pay anything. A: It just come with the clothes you don't need and then take some that you might feel you need, that someone else might need yours. But rather than gather around, we've also been in well organized with other groups events for the Trans Day of Remembrance and unfortunately had to organize the vigil for bioenergy. We thought it was important to hold this also as a wake up call to our allies and also to every single trans person in Cambridge that we should be looking towards, taking steps towards building community and, you know, resisting what's happening because else these kind of things happen. A: I was moved by the number of people that attended the Cambridge one. I didn't expect like more than, I don't know, 30, 40 people to attend the test. But there were hundreds. And I was quite surprised when people just started pouring in and we didn't really know where to put everyone to speak. But yeah, it was it was quite moving. A: The number of people coming, people spoke that have never held them. I can come in their entire life. They specifically came because they said they wanted to like it. So now we're never a situation where either they want to, you know, they want to get involved and do things. They don't want to just, you know, stay in the closet forever and be afraid, because that's the thing as well. A: People are seeing other people being supportive and caring matters When you do not have community, you are pushed into the closet and you do feel like the entire world is against you. And you know, even if the entire world statistically would be against you, let's say having that community next to you, it makes you feel like you can fight the world, that you're not alone. A: That was the worst thing in in this world is to is to be alone. K: Yeah. No, the the outpouring around the vigils for Brianna was very moving. Like, yeah, like I went down to the one in London. Unlike just the amount of people that, that was like as much as like, you know, you wake up in the morning and steal the show on Twitter, like, just seeing that like an entire street filled with, like, hundreds of people. A: Yep. Yeah, that's and it's a hard one as well, right? Because creating community is I mean the word that's the phrase itself is, is vague. Keep it intentionally vague because a lot of things can mean building community anything including like holding a weekly coffee. And we do have members that do that kind of thing. A: And to other groups, they have like a weekly coffee meet. There's is also community building. You find people that you vibe with and you know, you know, the have a place where you can spend time and feel well included in. And from there you can build up a network of people that you know, when you need to do something, you can do something with. K: So what is TLC doing now? A: So let's see. Um, I mean, we are planning to start with more of those social activities. The closed shop is primarily one we thought about because last time we had one and it was a great success in gathering people and especially especially gathering people in a relaxed environment where, you know, we can start thinking about, oh, okay, we could them do this like, for example, arts and crafts. A: We've done that at one point making banners or just making badges or, you know, small groups of people who want to do things like knitting. We did that as well at one point. It's important to see, you know, what people would like to do and from there kind of organize. And it's also easier to do that when you're in a more relaxed environment, like the clothes swap compared to if you try to that, say, network at the demo where everyone feels like there's a purpose they have to do now. A: And, you know, it's it's a difficult environment actually, you know, have they're going to chat with people of what those. Oh so we've also been, like I said, supporting and being solidarity with some of the London actions. And we will continue to do that as much as we have the energy to do. So we are hoping that's enough. A: People will get enough groups and hundred more will gather to do. I guess I guess I would call it like a big networking event at one point. So so we can, you know, find out how many of us are willing to actually, you know, put ourselves out there and do something about those issues. Find us on Instagram, Twitter, follow us, see what events we do. A: Um, and you know, hang around when we have some events. K: You know? Thank you for that. Thank you for speaking with me. A: Not a problem. K: And if you ever want to come back, and plug anything else you're doing, that's more than fine. A: So thank you very much for having me on and I appreciate what you're doing. And yeah, I'll contact you if there's more. K: All right. Thank you. Thank you again to A and their comrades from Trans Liberation Cambridge that currently running queer radical self-defense sessions every Tuesday at 7 p.m. with more details, as well as social media handles for all of TLC stuff in the show, notes are opening Music is MINDBREAK.018m by Free 99 on Bandcamp, NewGrounds, and Twitter. Links in the show notes. K: Thank you for listening to Hell Island. More reports soon. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hellislandreports.substack.com (https://hellislandreports.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

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