Three long-time friends, two Pastors and one CEO, explore the spaces between Ministry and Business, Professional and Amateur Christianity, and Faith and Disbelief, with joy, love, and a grain of salt.
holdforpodcast.substack.com (https://holdforpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast)
Publisher
Looking for the Wisdom Path and trying to stay on it.
Alex can’t take a Sabbath. Macon is shameless. Both of us are working against our Types. Think it will work? It will take a Miracle.
Show Notes:
* Greenhouse Retreats (https://greenhouseretreats.substack.com/)
* Enneagram 3 (https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-3/) - The Achiever
* Enneagram 8 (https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-8/) - The Challenger
* Like a ninja of love, rappelling down from above (https://youtu.be/OyA3QmUL_x4?si=ztaWbpbrJbe0Rumy&t=104)
* Me fail english?! That’s unpossible! (https://youtu.be/JXFGy10b7Js?si=dFJpcNrex3ARWa0g)
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit holdforpodcast.substack.com (https://holdforpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)
10 Aug 2026
S5E04 - Imagination and Laughter
Alex and Macon are back with more than enough to talk about. In fact, each gets to pick from a list of things each other has been mulling over this summer.
Show Notes
* Macon’s three things he’s been thinking about:
* We need an Epistemology for Regular People.
* Imagination as a truth-bearing medium.
* The power of only of deciding that only a few people’s feelings am I gonna care about. so those are the those are the three, those are my three things.
* Inadequacy and Unhelpfullness of singing “Jesus Love Me” in a worship service
* Alex’s three things he’s been thinking about:
* Sabbath, rest, vacation, play, therapeutic self care culture.
* Cultural engagement (in sermons)
* Stand-up Comedy
* Malcom Guite (https://malcolmguite.wordpress.com/)
* Actually, the seasons are SO different, the books are different, too
* Advent Book of Poetry (https://a.co/d/09AKzkWz)
* Lent Book of Poetry (https://a.co/d/0iewECna)
* Glahad and the Grail (https://a.co/d/0cyhCdck)
* Stephen Lawhead (https://www.stephenlawhead.com/)
* Taliesin (https://a.co/d/0aAH0l45)
* A good, far ranging interview of Guite (https://youtu.be/CcYToxtmFHs?si=BABY7j5eWWv32X1_)
* "Do you have (https://kerrysloft.com/art-music-lit-2/guite-and-galahad/)Galahad and the Grail (https://kerrysloft.com/art-music-lit-2/guite-and-galahad/) or are you thinking about reading it? Here are a few pointes I would share that might help you get more out of it.” (https://kerrysloft.com/art-music-lit-2/guite-and-galahad/)
* TFT: Karl Barth - Theologian of The Word (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1osDdPoyrwd_cB3D2VtknjzBZgFtXLz47/view?usp=sharing)
* Enneagram 3 Official Music Video (https://youtu.be/WRc4lH6_bEU?si=QOmJqlkgb_RQ9Rud)
* For those people who like Puzzles (https://www.completingthepuzzle.com/)
* Nate Bargatze (https://nateland.com/pages/nate)
* The Comic Toolbox (https://a.co/d/0gRb2Ki7)
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit holdforpodcast.substack.com (https://holdforpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)
18 May 2026
S5E03 - Awareness, Clarity, and Moral Courage
Alex debriefs his first management training gig — parachuting into a Florida nonprofit to coach twenty-something camp supervisors who’d rather be friends than give feedback. Then the tables turn: Macon’s been invited to do a 45-minute leadership talk and hates everything about it. What follows is Macon wrestling in real time with why management training makes him nauseous, landing on a framework he actually believes in: awareness, clarity, and focus — the same underlying muscle whether you’re doing lean on a warehouse floor, having a fierce conversation, or learning to deadlift. Alex pushes back on “focus” as too passive and calls out Macon’s blind spot: moral courage comes easy for an Enneagram 8, but most people are paralyzed by it. Along the way: the OODA loop, why the history of science is nothing like your textbook, survivorship bias in business books, the transferability of practices across domains, and whether rolling in on a skateboard would be the douchiest possible entrance.
Show Notes:
* Parable of the Good Samaritan (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37&version=ESV) — “the man wanted to justify himself”
* Getting Things Done (https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0143126563) by David Allen
* Lean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing) / 5S (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5S_(methodology))
* 4DX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing)
* Measure What Matters (https://www.amazon.com/Measure-What-Matters-Google-Foundation/dp/0525536221) by John Doerr (OKRs)
* Crucial Conversations (https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-Second/dp/0071771328)
* Radical Candor (https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375) by Kim Scott
* Fierce Conversations (https://www.amazon.com/Fierce-Conversations-Achieving-Success-Conversation/dp/0425193373) by Susan Scott — “short sentences, strong verbs”
* OODA Loop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop) — observe, orient, decide, act
* Bullet Journaling (https://bulletjournal.com/)
* Hedonic adaptation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill)
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit holdforpodcast.substack.com (https://holdforpodcast.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
Apple Podcasts (US)
4.9 / 5
9 ratings
Spotify
5.0 / 5
1 ratings
Contact Hold For Podcast
Guest appearances
Books guests
Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.
Host of Hold For Podcast?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show Podcast research with Pod Engine
