(Bonus) Building Futures: Sam Sanderson on Trades, Training & Net-Zero Housing
Sam Sanderson from the PEI Construction Association discusses hands-on training initiatives that address labor shortages, housing demands, and climate objectives through net-zero housing, in this interview.
24 Jan 2025
The case FOR always including hybrids - the 9 use cases
We make the case for why hybrids should always be a part of the conversation at the kitchen table - by thinking through 9 different use cases : 3 types of houses (heatpump ready; heatpump + lite shellwork; heatpump + heavy shell work) X 3 types of budgets (high, medium, low)
4 Jan 2025
S03E02 - The Case Against Hybrids
The case AGAINST hybrids - dual fuel heating systems, eg: heat-pumps+furnace - from the perspective of contractors, homeowners and decarb policy.
4 Jan 2025
S03E01 - The Case for Hybrids
The case FOR hybrids - dual fuel heating systems, eg: heat-pumps+furnace - from the perspective of contractors, homeowners and decarb policy.
13 Sept 2024
S2E07: 9 Policies that Work for People Doing the Work
Sick of stop-start incentive programs and 'contractor training' courses? Here are 9 policy ideas that - from the perspective of contractors themselves - can climate policy work for both contractors AND for homeowners.
5 Sept 2024
S2E06 The Sorting Hat: 3 buckets of homes and homeowners
Is there an easier - and scalable - way to determine if a home and the homeowner are ready for electrification?
16 Aug 2024
S02E05: Can "free" energy audits help decarbonize homes?
In theory, an energy audit can give homeowners a roadmap for planning home energy retrofits. But how does a "free" energy audit play out at the kitchen-table conversation between homeowners and contractors?
We outline a narrow - but perhaps crucial - role that (virtual) energy audits can play in catalyzing consumer awareness and education, leading to better outcomes for both homeowners and contractors
31 Jul 2024
(Bonus Episode): Boundary-spanning is hard
Personal reflections on cultivating optimism while working on things that matter to us
31 Jul 2024
S02E04: An accelerator for residential decarbonizatiom?
Imagine - if you will - a national business accelerator with the mandate and responsibility for scaling residential decarbonization. What would it look like and what would its core activities be?
31 Jul 2024
S02E03: What the IRA does or doesn't do for home decarb
The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) in the US offers generous incentives for residential electrification. Will it move the needle?
31 Jul 2024
S02E02: Why rebates and incentives suck
Much policy attention is focused on providing generous (but short-lived) downstream incentive programs for homeowners - which have unintended consequences - shrinking value propositions for homeowners and contractors alike. Is there a better way?
31 Jul 2024
S02E01: Contractors are expected to perform miracles
HVAC and home performance contractors are expected to perform three miracles - technical, social and financial - to successfully execute residential decarbonization projects. Can policy help them achieve this consistently, comfortably and at scale?
4 Sept 2021
(Bonus Episode): Tacit vs Explicit Knowledge
Bonus episode on the epistemological challenge underpinning this podcast: how and what we know (or not) about what does (or not) work for residential decarbonization, and how do we get better at knowing better? If knowledge is socially constructed - i.e. we infer reality through jointly-constructed understandings of the world, what happens when white and blue collars communities inhabit different worlds?
The goal of this podcast is to span the boundaries of white and blue collar worlds to develop a shared understanding of reality, priorities, tools and solutions for decarbonizing homes. To this end, the Boundary Spanners pocast takes tacit (unspoken) knowledge in the white and blue collar worlds and turns it into explicit (out loud) insights for residential decarbonization.
3 Sept 2021
S01E03: The Four Horsemen of the HVAColypse
Four massive selection pressures and existential threats are looming large on the horizon for the HVAC industry, namely:
Skills shortage. in part because trades as a career choice is undervalued by many families in a society where disdain for the undereducated is the last acceptable prejudice. Many companies in the HVAC industry struggle with recruiting, retaining and train a generation of talent that can lead the industry into meeting the challenges of today and tomorrow.
Commoditization of HVAC, where HVAC is sold on price and not on value or other distinguishing attributes. When the only thing left to differentiate between one contractor from another or one HVAC system from another is price, margins in the industry shrink. This sets up a race to the bottom where everyone - including the consumer - loses.
Biz model whiplash from programs and funding that ramps up quickly and immediately drops off precipitously. Nate calls this the bell curve cliff. While funding programs can help with technical training and upskilling for contractors, the whiplash from start-stop funding programs makes it difficult for HVAC contractors to scale and grow their business in a sustained and sustainable way.
Cultural decline of craftmanship, tinkering, maintenance and upkeep. Very few households invest in regular maintenance and upkeep of their heating and cooling system. This leads to the double humpback camel problem, where the HVAC industry makes most of its revenue during the 2 warmest and 2 coldest months of the year when most systems break down. And in recent years the peaks of this camel are only getting steeper. This sets a frenetic pace for the industry, and a decline in workmanship by contractors and a undervaluing of workmanship by the homeowners - which feeds into the other horsemen of the HVACoplyse - commoditization and Walmartization of HVAC industry.
Taken together, an important question for fellow Boundary Spanners: What happens when you layer on decarbonization on top of an industry that is already grappling with the existential threat of the 4 Horsemen of the HVAColypse? How can policy makers and HVAC professionals work together to help the industry confront these challenges without imploding under the additional mandate of decarbonization?
Boundary Spanners is a podcast and a blog on residential decarbonization by Nate (@energysmartohio (https://twitter.com/energysmartohio)), the “blue-collar” CEO of HVAC 2.0 and Abhi (@akantamn (https://twitter.com/akantamn)), a “white-collar” policy researcher based in Canada. Nate and Abhi are taking tacit (unspoken) knowledge in the white and blue collar worlds and making it explicit (out loud) for residential decarbonization. Follow Boundary Spanners on Youtube (show), Substack (https://boundaryspanners.substack.com/) (blog) or wherever you get your favorite podcasts from.
2 Sept 2021
S01E02: The Church of the Kitchen Table
The locus of decarbonizing homes is the relationship between an HVAC contractor and the homeowner. We call this ‘The Church of the Kitchen Table’
Presently, all may not be well at This ‘Church of the Kitchen Table’. For one, the relationship has a lot of friction, because homeowners usually want the cheapest piece of equipment installed as fast as possible. Contractors - knowing this - have built a business model around turning a quick sale using only equipment they are familiar with. And when utility or government incentive programs layer on top of this, they end up simply adding more friction to this process by narrowing the solution space and giving homeowners and contractors yet another element to grapple with at the kitchen table.
The kitchen table transaction is also fragile - because of a deficit of trust. Homeowners - worried about being upsold through aggressive sales tactics - respond poorly to contractors that might recommend low-carbon equipment, especially when there’s a price difference heatpumps and air-conditioners or a standard gas-furnace. Meanwhile contractors are reluctant to recommend low-carbon systems, because they do not want to be held liable for failure of equipment that they might not be as familiar with.
Therefore, a shared goal between policymakers and HVAC contractors can be - reducing the friction and fragility at the kitchen table. One way of achieving this goal is for HVAC professionals to pivot from the volumetric sales oriented process - to a more diagnostic or consultative business model.
Some discussion questions fellow Boundary Spanners:
What do policy interventions look like for improving trust between parties at the kitchen table? What upstream incentives can make heat-pumps the status-quo installation?
What is the role of policy in supporting HVAC professionals that are seeking to pivot to a consultative business model?
Who are the early adopters that are building successful business models around electrifying and decarbonizing homes across US and Canada? How can policy support their work and how can their success be replicated and scaled? What lessons can we learn from their experience and how can such learning be mobilized to help transform HVAC industry or inform consumers?
Boundary Spanners is a podcast and a blog on residential decarbonization by Nate (@energysmartohio (https://twitter.com/energysmartohio)), the “blue-collar” CEO of HVAC 2.0 and Abhi (@akantamn (https://twitter.com/akantamn)), a “white-collar” policy researcher based in Canada. Nate and Abhi are taking tacit (unspoken) knowledge in the white and blue collar worlds and making it explicit (out loud) for residential decarbonization. Follow Boundary Spanners on Youtube (show), Substack (https://boundaryspanners.substack.com/) (blog) or wherever you get your favorite podcasts from.
1 Sept 2021
S01E01: The 85% Problem
The road to decarbonizing every single home goes through HVAC contractors.
In North America, the perfect opportunity to decarbonize a home presents itself roughly once every six seconds when a heating or cooling equipment breaks down at someone's home. However, 85% of home heating and cooling replacements happen under duress. When equipment breaks during the warmest or coldest months of the year, homeowners making large budgetary decisions under duress default to picking the contractor offering the cheapest quote. This sets up a race to the bottom for contractors who are looking to make the fastest sale and the easiest like-for-like system replacement, locking in carbon infrastructure in a home for another 15-20 years.
(Suggedted) discussion topics for fellow Boundary Spanners:
How can I leverage this army of HVAC contractors - who are always the first point of contact for homeowners when their furnace or air conditioner or water heater breaks down - towards decarbonization?
How can I design boots-on the ground policy WITH HVAC contractors rather than design programs FOR them, from afar? Would such partnerships help pave the way for enlisting the experience, expertise and the support of HVAC contractors towards decarbonising homes?
What happens when decarbonization as a goal is layered on top of an industry that is experiencing the kind of 'race-to-the bottom system replacement under duress' dynamics? Is my policy accounting for these dynamics? If it isn’t, then is it possible that my policy is actively feeding this race to the bottom and making it worse?
Boundary Spanners is a podcast and a blog on residential decarbonization by Nate (@energysmartohio (https://twitter.com/energysmartohio)), the “blue-collar” CEO of HVAC 2.0 and Abhi (@akantamn (https://twitter.com/akantamn)), a “white-collar” policy researcher based in Canada. Nate and Abhi are taking tacit (unspoken) knowledge in the white and blue collar worlds and making it explicit (out loud) for residential decarbonization. Follow Boundary Spanners on Youtube (show), Substack (https://boundaryspanners.substack.com/) (blog) or wherever you get your favorite podcasts from.
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
Apple Podcasts (US)
5.0 / 5
5 ratings
Spotify
5.0 / 5
3 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 21 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
28
Social presence
0
YouTube
0
Engagement
32
Contact HVAC Boundary Spanners Podcast
Guest appearances
Books guests
Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.
Host of HVAC Boundary Spanners Podcast?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show Podcast research with Pod Engine
