The Practical, Deep-Dive Entrepreneurial Operating Systems (EOS) Podcast for Implementers, Integrators, Leadership Teams and Anyone Running on EOS or Interested in EOS. Hosted by Andrew Gissal and Jami Mullikin.
EP.55 - When to Hire a Marketer vs. an Agency And Why You Might Need Both
In this episode of Inside the 90, Jami and Andrew dig into one of the most common rocks they see in EOS sessions — the marketing rock. Andrew walks through his four stages of marketing maturity, from having no one in the seat all the way to building an internal team alongside a high-trust agency partner.
The conversation covers when to hire in-house versus bring on an agency, why the marketing seat must stay engaged with sales, and how creative trade show activation can build brand momentum that outlasts any single event. Whether your team is chasing more predictable sales or figuring out your next marketing hire, this episode gives you a practical framework to move forward.
Key Topics
- What typically triggers a marketing rock in EOS sessions — unpredictable sales, rebrands, and upcoming events.
- The four stages of marketing maturity: from no seat to a full internal team with agency partners.
- Why someone must own the marketing seat before bringing in an agency.
- The case for starting with an agency before making your first in-house marketing hire.
- Why the marketing seat must stay actively engaged with the sales seat.
- The First 90 Insights onboarding approach — running strategy and marketing continuation in parallel.
- How trade shows and creative activation build brand momentum and internal team excitement.
Key Chapters
0:00 - Introduction: What is a marketing rock and where does it come from.
3:00 - Using unpredictable sales as the lens for building a marketing rock.
6:30 - Stage zero and stage one: No seat versus someone accountable for marketing.
11:00 - Marketing is building the business of the future.
14:00 - Stage two: Bringing in an external agency or freelancer for execution.
18:30 - Stage three and four: Building in-house and why most companies skip straight to four.
24:00 - Why agency relationships fall flat and the marketing seat problem.
28:00 - The First 90 Insights approach: marketing continuation plus strategy in parallel.
34:00 - Trade shows as a brand-building tool and the power of creative activation.
40:00 - Final thoughts on internal marketing leadership and agency partnerships.
Mentions & Credits
Inkworks - https://www.inkworks.com
Keymark - https://www.keymark.com
Work With Wonder - https://www.workwithwonder.com
EOS Worldwide - https://www.eosworldwide.com
2 Oct 2026
EP.54 - The 90-Minute Meeting Your First Step to Choosing an EOS Implementer
In this episode of Inside the 90, Jami and Andrew break down how to choose the right EOS Implementer for your business. Andrew walks through the three roles every implementer plays — teacher, facilitator, and coach — and explains why the right fit goes beyond credentials or industry experience.
From the free 90-minute meeting to understanding certification levels, you'll get a clear picture of what the evaluation process looks like and what to prioritize. Whether you're brand new to EOS or ready to move from self-implementing to hiring a professional, this episode gives you a practical roadmap for making a confident, informed choice.
Key Topics
- How most people first discover EOS — through referrals or reading Traction.
- The three pillars of the EOS ecosystem: an implementer, the books, and EOS Academy.
- The three roles of an EOS Implementer: teacher, facilitator, and coach.
- How the free 90-minute meeting works and why every leadership team should do one.
- Why light industry experience in an implementer is often better than deep expertise.
- The three EOS Implementer certification levels: Professional, Certified, and Expert.
- How to stay transparent when you're evaluating more than one implementer.
Key Chapters
0:00 - Welcome and Jami's experience working with two different EOS Implementers.
3:00 - How people typically discover EOS and where to begin.
6:30 - The three roles of an EOS Implementer: teacher, facilitator, and coach.
11:00 - What the 90-minute meeting is and why every team should do one first.
16:00 - The "help first" culture of the EOS Implementer community.
19:00 - How much industry experience to look for — and when too much is a problem.
23:30 - The three certification levels: Professional, Certified, and Expert.
27:00 - Final advice on engaging with an implementer and being open about your process.
Mentions & Credits
Wonder - https://www.workwithwonder.com
EOS Worldwide - https://www.eosworldwide.com
Traction - https://www.eosworldwide.com/traction
EOS Worldwide Implementer Directory - https://www.eosworldwide.com/find-an-implementer
EOS Academy - https://www.eosworldwide.com/eos-one-system
Neil McLean - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilmcleaneos
24 Sept 2026
EP.53 - Managing Rocks and Scorecards: Where EOS Gets Real
In this follow-up episode of Inside the 90, Jami and Andrew dig into the discipline of managing rocks and scorecards well, the mechanics that turn a vision into real traction. Andrew argues that rocks are simply priorities and scorecards are the early warning system for a business, and that most teams get the mechanism in place without ever building the discipline to truly manage to those tools. Jami shares candid, in-the-moment examples from Wonder, from an AI-driven rock that almost pulled him off course, to new scorecard metrics built around client communication and project visibility.
The episode closes with a warning not to let a new metric or mechanism replace an honest issue conversation, and a reminder that mastering rocks and scorecards is an ongoing discipline, not a one-time setup.
Key Topics
- Rocks as priorities and the discipline of predicting and executing them well.
- Why leadership team scorecards are the clearest signal of business health.
- Using the issues list as the farm team for future rocks.
- The mindset shift that too many incoming issues signals a lack of focus on rocks.
- Building creative team scorecard metrics around missing information and rework.
- The caution against letting a scorecard mechanism bury the real underlying issue.
- Balancing execution-focused rocks with visionary-focused rocks in a dual seat.
- Creating scorecard metrics for client communication and project status visibility.
- Managing to outcomes rather than micromanaging tasks.
Key Chapters
0:00 - Introduction and recap of the last episode on vision cadence.
1:30 - Rocks as priorities, not a complicated concept.
3:30 - Why scorecard health means the business is running smoothly.
5:30 - The leadership team's responsibility to manage scorecards, not just track them.
8:00 - Getting real when scorecard metrics feel off.
10:00 - The issues list as the farm team for future rocks.
12:30 - A mindset shift, too many issues signals not enough focus on rocks.
15:00 - Managing expectations as a leadership team.
17:30 - Creative team scorecard metrics for missing information and rework.
20:30 - Caution, don't let a scorecard mechanism bury the real issue.
22:30 - Jami's AI rock dilemma and staying focused despite distraction.
26:00 - Balancing execution rocks and visionary rocks in a dual seat.
29:30 - The delegate and elevate goal behind Jami's brain dump rock.
31:30 - Building a scorecard metric around client communication.
34:00 - Creating a project status metric to increase visibility.
37:00 - Letting go of control by managing to outcomes, not tasks.
39:30 - The caution against replacing an honest issue conversation with a new metric.
41:30 - Coaching the team through the Outshine lunch and learn.
43:00 - The business development scorecard story and adjusting the goal.
47:00 - Why accountability to a scorecard goal matters even when results look fine.
50:00 - Three closing lessons, get real, love the tools, and see it as a way of life.
52:00 - Recommended books and the value of working with an implementer.
54:00 - Closing thoughts on rocks, scorecards, and getting back to basics.
Mentions & Credits
Wonder - https://www.workwithwonder.com
EOS Worldwide - https://www.eosworldwide.com
Traction Book - https://www.ginowickman.com
Issues Book - https://www.eosworldwide.com/issues-book
Data Book - https://www.eosworldwide.com/get-data
Visionary Book - https://www.markcwinters.com/visionary-book-dot-com/
Who has been a guest on Inside The 90™
Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.
Jake Vancalbergh
Tony Chiappetta
Dave Feidner
Alec Broadfoot
John Vidosh
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
YouTube views
22,356
Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025
Apple Podcasts (US)
4.0 / 5
4 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 31 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
32
Social presence
0
YouTube
72
Engagement
0
Host of Inside The 90™?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show Podcast research with Pod Engine
