Intended Consequences is for the marketer. We believe behavioral science can be used to predict the success of marketing campaigns, and we're going to teach you how. Through conversations guided by Brian Massey, we encourage and empower experimentation. In an age of abundant data and finite resources, this podcast gives you a rare blend of technical insights and marketing vision to help you, the marketer creates campaigns that truly convert.
You'll learn from the people behind the marketing tech - the consumer, the buyer, and the company behind it - hear what's worked for them, how it could work for you, and how to execute on ideas using both creative and data.
Two roads diverged in the CRO industry. Brian Massey chose to keep his agency small. Sahil Patel runs Spiralize, one of the largest in the field, with more than 170 people.
In this conversation, they compare notes across that divide. Sahil shares what he learned the hard way as a first-time CEO in healthcare tech, why CRO's horizontal market changed his thinking, and why a CEO's identity and business are so hard to pull apart.
Then the conversation turns to AI. B2B sites have watched 20-30% of their organic traffic evaporate. Agent traffic may soon cross human traffic. And AI test-idea generators suffer from winner's curse.
What surprised them both is how much they agree on what still works: measuring what people do rather than what they say, and showing up for customers in person.
15 Jun 2026
053: Using AI to Generate Copy that Converts
AI can write website copy that outperforms 80% of what is online today.
You just have to teach it who it is writing for.
In this episode of Intended Consequences, Conversion Sciences founder Brian Massey shows you how to use AI to generate website copy that actually converts.
The secret is not a better prompt.
It is writing for the four ways people make buying decisions.
You will learn the Modes of Research framework, first published in "Waiting for Your Cat to Bark," and how to map it onto Myers-Briggs types so any language model speaks your language.
Then you will watch live rewrites that turn flat, jargon-filled copy into messaging built for Competitive, Methodical, Spontaneous, and Humanist visitors.
By the end you can build your own AI messaging agent in ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini and let it do the rewriting for you.
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN
Why most B2B copy sounds the same and caps your conversion rate
The four research modes and the buyer behind each one
How to use Myers-Briggs as a shared vocabulary with any AI
The simple prompt that teaches your chatbot to rewrite by mode
How to generate personas straight from a URL
How to A/B test copy that is finally different enough to win
How to build a reusable AI messaging agent for your brand
CHAPTERS
00:00 Why AI copy beats 80% of website copy
01:30 Styrofoam copy and the conversion ceiling
02:40 How our own biases sabotage copywriting
04:10 ICPs and the four-persona problem
05:40 Corner cases: copy big enough to A/B test
06:00 The 4 Modes of Research framework
06:50 Competitive and Methodical buyers
08:00 Spontaneous and Humanist buyers
09:30 Placing copy on the page by buyer mode
10:30 Why language models beat humans at this
11:20 Myers-Briggs as a shared language with AI
14:00 The simple prompt to train your chatbot
15:00 Generating personas from a URL (Calm.com)
17:40 Rewriting copy for each mode, live
24:00 B2B example: HR services, CHRO vs CFO
29:50 Laying out multiple voices on one page
31:00 Q&A: getting your team to trust AI copy
33:20 Building your own AI messaging agent
38:00 What is next: ad and landing page alignment
38:50 Q&A: CTAs, ad frequency, and brand salience
RESOURCES
Messaging skills and full prompts: https://conversion.science/msg-skills
Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com
Book: "Waiting for Your Cat to Bark" by Bryan and Jeffrey Eisenberg: https://conversci.com/catbark
Roy H. Williams and the Wizard Academy: https://www.wizardacademy.org
Subscribe for more on conversion optimization, AI, and the experiments behind what actually works.
#AICopywriting #ConversionOptimization #CRO
5 Feb 2026
The Third Partner: Optimizing Your Website for AI Recommendations with Andy Crestodina
Digital marketing is undergoing a seismic shift. In this episode, Brian Massey sits down with marketing strategist Andy Crestodina to explore how AI is becoming the "third partner" in every customer relationship—and what that means for your website and content strategy.
Discover why traditional SEO tactics are losing effectiveness for top-of-funnel content, while bottom-of-funnel optimization matters more than ever. Andy reveals how to train AI models to recommend your brand, including practical tips on optimizing your website content, leveraging podcast transcripts, and balancing clarity with brand personality.
Key takeaways include:
Why AI visitors convert at higher rates than traditional traffic
The dramatic difference between Google queries (4.2 words) and AI prompts (23 words)
How to audit what AI "knows" about your brand—and fix misconceptions
Whether to sacrifice creative content for AI-friendly clarity
Why your LinkedIn newsletter might deliver 10x more visibility than SEO
If you're wondering how to adapt your digital strategy for an AI-powered future, this conversation offers grounded, actionable insights you can implement today.
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