Jesus Work in Jesus Ways

About Jesus Work in Jesus Ways

Good leadership blesses people and helps them flourish—bad leadership does the exact opposite. Yet in a culture obsessed with speed, status, and slick performance, leaders across every sector face constant pressure to rely on control rather than character. Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, hosted by Mark Stirling (Director of Oak Hill College’s MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl)), is a podcast exploring what happens when we stop trying to put on a show and instead lead out of character, service, and love. Modern research into human flourishing increasingly confirms what Jesus demonstrated all along: servant leadership, deep humility, and emotional health yield the most resilient, high-impact results in every arena of life. Through raw, unscripted, and deeply honest interviews with frontline practitioners, theologians, organisational leaders, and pastors, this show moves beyond quick fixes to examine the spiritual and relational heart of leading well. What You'll Discover: Character Over Control: Why emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and humility are non-negotiable for lasting influence. Soul Care & Longevity: Overcoming burnout, performance traps, and the hidden tactics of comparison, jealousy, and isolation. Gospel Realism & Governance: Navigating team conflict, organizational systems, and institutional crises with grace rather than heroics. Cross-Sector Application: Practical wisdom bridging the gap between church leadership, corporate boardrooms, healthcare systems, classrooms, and family life. Who Should Listen: Whether you are pastoring a church, managing a team, leading in healthcare or education, or guiding your own family at home, this show offers practical wisdom, deep theological grounding, and encouraging companion voices for the road ahead. Hit Follow or Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favourite platform to join Mark Stirling as we learn to do Jesus work in Jesus ways together.

Publisher

Oak Hill College

Category

religion & spirituality · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

8 Sept 2026

Latest episode

3 Nov 2026

Latest episodes

9 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   3 Nov 2026

   Faith Under the Scalpel: Leadership, Resilience & Apologetics | Dr. David Galloway

   Can biblical leadership principles thrive in high-stakes secular fields like medicine? In this episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark sits down with retired cancer surgeon and former President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons in Glasgow, Dr. David Galloway. David shares his journey from growing up in the West of Scotland to training at Manhattan’s Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, exploring how a distinctively Christian worldview shaped his approach to surgical oncology, academic medicine, and institutional leadership. Together, they dive into the realities of leading through dark seasons of criticism, what the church can learn from surgical accountability, and why young Christians must build a logically secure foundation for their faith before the storms of life hit. Intro: Leadership in medicine vs. leadership in the church Early influences, work ethic, and sensing God’s call in Revelation 3 Integrating Christian faith into a high-powered secular career Training in NYC & treating "academia as a state of mind" Role models in surgery: Humility, dignity, and servant leadership Facing failure, patient complications, and dark seasons of criticism Institutional accountability: What the church can learn from medicine Advice to young professionals: Knowing what and why you believe About the Guest: Dr. David Galloway is a retired cancer surgeon and former President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons in Glasgow. He has exercised significant leadership within the medical profession internationally and remains deeply involved in church leadership and Christian apologetics across Scotland. About Oak Hill College: Jesus Work in Jesus Ways is produced by Oak Hill College, equipping Christians to lead like Jesus in every sphere of life. Website: https://www.oakhill.ac.uk (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk) Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

2. 

   27 Oct 2026

   Theology for the Weary Leader: Realism, Expectations, and Church Conflict | Jared Michelson

   In this episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark Stirling (Programme Director of the Masters in Contemporary Christian Leadership at Oak Hill College) sits down with theologian and former pastor Jared Michelson. Together, they explore how classical theology—specifically the self-sufficiency of God—liberates weary ministry leaders from workaholism, legalism, and the crushing weight of performative perfectionism. Mark and Jared unpack the realities of pastoral expectations (including our culture's "collective daddy issue" towards leaders), how Christian realism helps us navigate inevitable church conflict, and why who a leader is becoming in Christ matters far more than what they accomplish for Him. What You Will Learn in This Episode How the doctrine of classical theism ("God doesn't need you") frees leaders from performance anxiety and workaholism. Why aiming for a "slick show" or perfect professionalism in church can undermine authentic discipleship. How to replace utopian church expectations with a healthy "Christian realism" when handling conflict and disappointment. How to recognise when a congregation is placing unhealthy parental expectations on pastoral staff. Books, Authors & Resources Mentioned Gregory the Great – Pastoral Rule (on practical wisdom, discipleship, and addressing different personalities) John Webster – Late theologian and PhD supervisor Augustine & Reinhold Niebuhr – On Political Theology and "Christian Realism" Donald McKinnon – British theologian (on developing a "tragic sensibility" in ministry) Patrick Lencioni – The Five Dysfunctions of a Team Key Quotes "God does not need you. You are invited to participate in something that is incredibly life-giving... live for the mission of God because that will make you fully alive, not because He needs you to build His church." — Jared Michelson "The most important thing that God is doing through you is what He is doing in you." — Jared Michelson Host & Guest Information Host: Mark Stirling is the Programme Director of the Masters in Contemporary Christian Leadership at Oak Hill College. Guest: Dr Jared Michelson is a Research Fellow at the University of St Andrews and incoming seminary theology professor, formerly Lead Pastor of Cornerstone Church in St Andrews. Connect & Share Explore the Programme: MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership at Oak Hill College (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl) Join the Conversation: How have you navigated unrealistic expectations or conflict in leadership? Leave a comment on YouTube or Spotify. Subscribe & Review: If this episode encouraged you, please leave a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help other ministry leaders find the show.

3. 

   20 Oct 2026

   Navigating Systemic Fear, Triangulation & Necessary Conflict | Tasha Chapman (Part 2)

   What happens when leadership systems are driven by unspoken fears, hidden expectations, and anxiety? In Part 2 of this conversation, host Mark Stirling (Director of the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership at Oak Hill College) continues his discussion with Dr. Tasha Chapman (Covenant Seminary). Dr. Chapman unpacks how groups and ministry organisations function as interconnected systems—where an anxious leader can inadvertently stoke fear, create triangulation, and silence constructive disagreement. Together, they explore why popular business metaphors like "getting the right people on the bus" often backfire in Christian leadership, how self-differentiation rooted in the gospel brings security, and why healthy teams must embrace necessary conflict to truly learn and thrive. Book Now for Building Resilience for Ministry - 4th February 2027 (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/about/events/resilience) 00:00 – Introduction & Part 1 Recap 01:27 – Guest & Host Introductions: Mark Sterling & Dr. Tasha Chapman 03:12 – Understanding Ministry Organisations as Interconnected Systems 06:00 – The Hidden Mobile: Expectations, Interests, and Emotional Dynamics 09:18 – Moving from the "Dance Floor" to the "Balcony" 12:28 – Why "Getting People Off the Bus" Creates Systemic Paralysis 15:46 – Theological Warning: How Anxious Systems Deny Gospel Grace 16:33 – Mid-Roll Announcement: Live Day Conference at Oak Hill College 17:22 – How Anxious Leaders Operate: Blame, Shame, and Command-Control 20:00 – What Happens to Dissenters in Fearful Ministry Systems 24:39 – Unpacking Triangulation: Why Dysfunction Spreads After Meetings 29:12 – The Gospel Cure: Emotional Literacy & Identity in Christ 35:24 – What is Self-Differentiation? Standing Before the Face of God 40:45 – Why Necessary Conflict is Vital for True Ministry Growth 47:45 – "Failing Forward" in Grace: Final Encouragement for Leaders In-Person Day Conference: Building Resilience for Ministry Speaker: Dr. Tasha Chapman Date & Time: Thursday, 4th February 2027 | 10:30 AM – 3:30 PM Location: Oak Hill College, London Details: An interactive gathering exploring how to lead healthier, sustainable ministries for the long haul. Every participant receives a copy of Tasha Chapman's book Resilient Ministry, plus lunch on campus. Places are limited. Register now to reserve your spot. (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/about/events/resilience) Featured Books & Programs Books: The Politics of Ministry: Navigating Power Dynamics and Negotiating Interests by Bob Burns, Tasha D. Chapman, and Donald C. Guthrie Resilient Ministry: What Pastors Told Us About Surviving and Thriving by Bob Burns, Tasha D. Chapman, and Donald C. Guthrie Master of Arts in Contemporary Christian Leadership at Oak Hill College, London. (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl)

4. 

   13 Oct 2026

   Why Emotional Intelligence Matters Most in Ministry | Tasha Chapman (Part 1)

   Why do churches and Christian organisations so frequently appoint leaders who end up causing harm? In this episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark Stirling sits down with Dr Tasha Chapman for Part 1 of a candid two-part conversation on emotional intelligence, narcissism, and true redemptive leadership. Tasha reveals how rewarding high IQ and technical expertise over emotional health leads to the trap of "hero leadership"—and why true Christian leadership is about gathering people into Christ's shalom rather than having all the answers. --- 💡 KEY TAKEAWAYS - EQ vs. IQ in Ministry: Why intellectual brilliance without emotional self-awareness creates dangerous leadership blind spots. - The Narcissism Trap: How business and church cultures reward command-and-control personalities and why boards often protect abusive leaders. - "Noses, Noise, and Nickels": Why relying on easily countable metrics undermines long-term gospel growth and fosters organisational anxiety. - Self-Awareness as Formation: Why deep personal self-knowledge (and counselling) is essential for anyone leading in God's church. - Disappointing People Well: Understanding leadership as "the art of disappointing people at a rate they can absorb" to break the saviour complex. - Union with Christ: Why resting in our identity in Jesus is the ultimate antidote to fear-driven, performance-based leadership. 🎙️ STANDOUT QUOTES > "We tend to put people in charge of other people because they've accomplished a lot of expertise, but actually their people skills or their emotional intelligence is very low." — Tasha Chapman > "Leadership isn't about people behind following me like ducks in a row. It's me helping gather them to face the world as the body of Christ working together." — Tasha Chapman > "Our job is actually to disappoint people, because I'm not going to fix it for you, I don't know all the answers, and I'm going to gather you and slow you down." — Tasha Chapman --- 📚 RESOURCES & BOOKS MENTIONED - Resilient Ministry: What Pastors Need to Survive and Thrive by Bob Burns, Tasha Chapman, and Donald Guthrie - The Politics of Ministry: Navigating Power, Dynamics, and Relationships by Bob Burns, Tasha Chapman, and Donald Guthrie - Explore Leadership Training at Oak Hill College: [MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership](https://www.oakhill.ac.uk (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk)) --- 👥 ABOUT THE HOST & GUEST - Host: Dr Mark Stirling is the Director of the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership at Oak Hill College, London. - Guest: Dr Tasha Chapman formerly taught at Covenant Theological Seminary, where she led the Doctor of Ministry program, and currently teaches as an adjunct faculty member for Oak Hill College. --- 🔔 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share this episode with a pastor or leader in your life!

5. 

   6 Oct 2026

   Knowing Your "Sell-By Date": Power, Humility, and Succession in Leadership | Malcolm McGregor

   What does it actually look like to lead like Jesus in a world obsessed with titles, power, and status? In this episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark Stirling sits down with Malcolm McGregor—former International Director of SIM (one of the world's largest mission organisations), architect, and long-time missionary leader in Nigeria and Ethiopia. Malcolm shares his remarkable story of navigating ministry under a Marxist government in Ethiopia, processing deep personal trial and childlessness in Nigeria, and intentionally stepping down from major executive roles to make room for the next generation of global leaders. If you want to understand true servant leadership, the importance of succession, and how to know your own "sell-by date" in ministry, this conversation is essential listening. Key Topics Covered Lessons from Famine & Marxist Rule: Serving in Ethiopia in the 1980s and running student ministries under lockdown. Personal Trial & Conviction: How personal loss in Nigeria reshaped Malcolm and his wife Liz’s view of rights versus privileges before God. Knowing Your "Sell-By Date": Why great leaders know when it is time to step aside and pass power to others. Building Culturally Diverse Teams: How Malcolm restructured SIM's global leadership team to reflect the global Church. God in the Details: Why laying the drainage system for a building in Addis Ababa served as a lifelong metaphor for quiet, faithful leadership. Advice to 25-Year-Old Leaders: The two non-negotiable principles every young leader needs to know. Episode Timestamps 00:00 – Intro to Malcolm McGregor & Missionary Background 01:06 – Welcome & Oak Hill’s Masters in Contemporary Christian Leadership 03:36 – Architecture & Student Ministry in Marxist Ethiopia 06:20 – Lessons from Nigeria: Hardship, Healing, and Surrender 18:50 – Leadership Conviction: Knowing Your "Sell-By Date" 22:00 – Taking the Reins at SIM International 25:20 – Resigning Power to Build a Truly Diverse Global Team 31:35 – Why Christian Leaders Struggle to Let Go of Status 35:00 – "God is in the Details": Drains, Architecture, and Unseen Work 37:45 – Two Essential Pieces of Advice for Young Leaders About Malcolm McGregor Malcolm McGregor trained as an architect before spending decades in cross-cultural mission leadership alongside his wife, Liz. He served in Nigeria and Ethiopia before becoming the UK Director and later the International Director of SIM (Serving In Mission) for 10 years. He continues to serve and mentor Christian leaders in Scotland and around the world. About Jesus Work in Jesus Ways Hosted by Mark Stirling (Program Director for Oak Hill College's Masters in Contemporary Christian Leadership), this podcast features conversations with experienced Christian leaders exploring how to do God's work in God's ways. Learn more about Oak Hill College (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/) Explore the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl) Subscribe & Review: If this episode blessed you, please leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

6. 

   29 Sept 2026

   The Death of Hero Leadership (and How Grace Rescued Me) | Zack Eswine

   What happens when your "front-stage" leadership gifts outpace your "back-stage" life? In this deeply raw, moving, and disarmingly honest conversation, host Mark Stirling sits down with long-time friend, author, and pastor Zack Eswine. In his thirties, Zack appeared to have it all—a flourishing ministry trajectory and a national book award for preaching. But beneath the accolades lay a performance-driven mindset that was stripped away through a painful, "Job-like" season of divorce, job loss, and sudden single fatherhood. Zack shares his journey from performing for God to actually meeting the living person of Jesus in the middle of laundry, crockpot meals, and ordinary daily graces. Together, Mark and Zack explore: Deconstructing "Frowning" Holiness: How rediscovering God’s delight in beauty, art, and creation changes the way we view ministry. The Trap of the "Hero Leader": Moving away from fast, famous, and large-scale success toward faithful, long-term presence. Grace in the Wilderness: How a local Chinese church and loyal elders reframed friendship, grace, and Christian community during Zack's darkest moments. Words for the Weary Leader: What Zack would tell his 25-year-old self about rest, ambition, and identity. Whether you are in pastoral ministry, church leadership, or simply feeling burned out from the pressure to perform, this episode offers a gentle, necessary invitation to rest in the truth that you are already beloved. Key Quotes from the Episode "Everything around you wants you to do large things famously as fast as you can for God. But most things that truly matter in life require small, mostly overlooked graces over a long period of time." — Zack Eswine "The truest thing about you is that you are loved by God, and he delights in the human person he created you to be. There is nothing more you need to prove to Him." — Zack Eswine Resources Mentioned & Connect Zack's Newest Book is out Now: Wiser With Jesus (https://www.amazon.com/Wiser-Jesus-Temptations-Relationships-Decision-Making/dp/1527112233) Other books by Zack Eswine: Sensing Jesus: Life and Ministry Beyond Our Limitations (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sensing-Jesus-Zach-Eswine/dp/1581349696/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0)and Resilient Faith (https://www.sagechristianity.com/resources/p/9vbzkkhs9c0lvlsga6b2uxl5kzb0w3-zhrgx-d8pgj-9hanx) Learn More About Zack's Work: Sage Christianity (https://www.sagechristianity.com) & Riverside Church (https://www.riversidestl.org) Explore Leadership Training at Oak Hill College: MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl) About Jesus Work in Jesus Ways Jesus Work in Jesus Ways is an initiative of Oak Hill College, hosted by Mark Stirling (Director of the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership). This podcast features candid conversations with leaders whose life and ministry embody the character, posture, and ways of Jesus. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review if this conversation encouraged you!

7. 

   22 Sept 2026

   Self-Awareness, Conflict, and Joy in Ministry | Andrew Rollinson

   How do Christian leaders navigate deep church conflict, avoid the trap of self-deception, and sustain genuine joy over a lifetime of ministry? In this episode, host Mark sits down with retired Baptist pastor, author, and former national Ministry Advisor Andrew Rollinson. Drawing from over 40 years of pastoral leadership—from early mission work in Uganda to pastoring in Newcastle, Morningside, and St Andrews—Andrew shares battle-tested wisdom on what it takes to do Christ's work in Christ's ways. Together, they explore the core themes of Andrew’s book, Conversations by the Sea (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conversations-Sea-Reflections-Discipleship-Ministry/dp/1912052784), focusing on the vital importance of emotional self-awareness, non-anxious leadership, and establishing robust accountability in ministry. Key Takeaways & Topics Covered: Navigating Church Conflict: Why conflict isn't always morally negative, how to build trust, and the creation of "Peaceful Transformation Teams" using Anabaptist Bridgebuilders principles. Leading as a Non-Anxious Presence: The power of doing the basics well, listening before leading, and avoiding power-driven decision-making. Finding Power in Weakness: How tragic and dark moments in ministry reveal God’s grace and shape pastoral collegiality. Theology as Worship: Why reading deep, challenging theology enriches daily pastoral care and guards against "hurry sickness." Self-Awareness vs. Self-Deception: Why self-awareness and security in God are the two most critical traits for leaders, and how to spot our own blind spots. Authentic Accountability: Moving beyond surface-level accountability to intentional annual reviews, counseling, and invites for candid feedback. Books & Resources Mentioned: Conversations by the Sea (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conversations-Sea-Reflections-Discipleship-Ministry/dp/1912052784)by Andrew Rollinson The Undefended Leader trilogy (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079VRDQ3Q?binding=paperback&ref_=saga_sdp_cft_dsk) by Simon Walker When Narcissism Comes to Church (https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Narcissism-Comes-Church-Community-ebook/dp/B07ZG79HHF)by Chuck DeGroat I Told Me So: Self-Deception and the Christian Life (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Told-Me-Gregg-Ten-Elshof-ebook/dp/B0038W0H9Q) by Gregg A. Ten Elshof About Oak Hill College & Jesus Work in Jesus Ways Jesus Work in Jesus Ways is a podcast by Oak Hill College, created to equip pastors, church leaders, and believers to serve Christ with his heart, wisdom, and character. Learn more about Oak Hill College (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk) Explore our MA Leadership Course (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl) Subscribe & Review: If this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a ministry leader or friend!

8. 

   15 Sept 2026

   Stop Performing for God: Why Grace and Gladness Change How You Lead | Marcus Honeysett

   Are you leading out of genuine joy, or have you quietly fallen into a performance-driven routine? In this first episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark Stirling (Director of Oak Hill's MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl)) sits down with author and leadership mentor Marcus Honeysett for a candid conversation on why sustainable ministry must flow from God's unmerited grace rather than legalistic hustle. Marcus shares his dramatic wake-up call from guilt-driven evangelism programs to grace-filled soul care, unmasking how technical competence and "bigger is better" metrics can easily mask spiritual exhaustion. Together, they explore the quiet tactics of the enemy—including comparison, jealousy, and isolation around age 40—and offer a refreshing vision of leadership rooted in deep spiritual health, Sabbath rest, and biblical gladness. Key Takeaways Cognition vs. Transformation: Teaching skills and information without grounding leaders in grace creates fear-driven, performative cultures. The Metric Trap: Size, growth, and technical preaching ability can mask serious spiritual decay and shaky foundations. The Enemy’s Schemes: Satan rarely uses sudden frontal attacks; he uses long-term isolation, entitlement, and comparison to pick off exhausted leaders. Gladness as a Barometer: True Christian gladness isn't fake positivity—it is the natural downstream overflow of resting in God's love. Scripture as Worship: Shift your quiet times from sermon preparation or informational study to personal worship over the Word. Links & Resources Oak Hill College: Learn more about the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership (https://www.oakhill.ac.uk/our-courses/ma-ccl) Living Leadership: Explore soul-care resources for church workers at Living Leadership (https://www.livingleadership.org.uk/) Connect with Oak Hill: Follow us on X (https://x.com/OakHillLondon) or Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/oakhilllondon/) Rate & Review: If this conversation encouraged you, please leave a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! Mentions Colossians 1:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+1%253A6) Acts 2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+2) Psalm 16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+16) The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill - Christianity Today Podcast (https://www.christianitytoday.com/podcasts/the-rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/) Deep Water Horizon Movie (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860357/?ref_=fn_t_4)

9. 

   8 Sept 2026

   Introducing Jesus Work in Jesus Ways

   Good leadership helps people flourish. Bad leadership does the exact opposite. But what actually makes a leader good in today's world? Whether you’re leading a company, a church, a classroom, or your own family at the dinner table, the pressure to produce fast, famous results is everywhere. But here is the surprising truth: modern secular research is increasingly proving what Jesus showed us all along—leading through service, character, and love isn't just morally right, it actually yields the healthiest results in every arena of life. Welcome to Jesus' Work in Jesus' Ways, hosted by Mark Stirling. In this short preview, discover the heart behind unscripted, honest conversations with frontline practitioners, medical leaders, scholars, and pastors who are leading in Jesus Ways In this podcast, you will discover: Character Over Control: Why real influence comes from who you are, not how much power you exert. Overlooked Graces: How small, steady acts of faithfulness outperform fast, flashy growth hacks. Cross-Sector Wisdom: Practical insights bridging the gap between sacred ministry, marketplace leadership, and daily home life. Take the next step: Hit Subscribe or Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. Let’s learn to lead like Jesus as we follow Him together.

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