Lazy Leverage

About Lazy Leverage

Talking about using leverage in life and business.

Publisher

Jon Matzner and Peter Lohmann

Category

business

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

6 Jan 2024

Latest episode

6 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

130 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   6 Oct 2026

   22 Years of Therapy in 2.5 Hours. On Psilocybin. | Lazy Leverage #129

   We mention a lot of books on this show and never write them down. Fixed that.61 books, 39 essays, 88 episodes, free: https://lazy-leverage.saganpassport.com/ This conversation describes personal experience and is not medical advice. Several substances discussed are illegal in most of the United States. Christian Ruf says he did twenty two years of therapy in about two and a half hours. He flew for the 160th Night Stalkers, the most elite special operations helicopter unit in the world. Both he and Jon spent years being drug tested by the government. Now they sit in ceremonies guided by Hoot. Christian got out of the military and two years later he was going downhill fast. Medication was not working and therapy was not working. Hoot came out of television, had what he calls a dark night of the soul, and found his way here through meditation. In this one: why Jon hands over every decision the moment he enters the space, including his own dose. What set and setting mean, and why Hoot runs ceremonies outdoors. Why the music is the medicine, and what happens when whoever is choosing it gets it wrong. The night the clouds cleared over Colorado and a meteor shower arrived at eleven. And the part both of them say matters more than the ceremony itself, which is what you do with it the next morning. Chapters:00:00 - Intro01:30 - Welcome to Lazy Leverage03:22 - Who Hoot Is06:10 - Christian's Road to the First Ceremony08:41 - Brought to You by Sagan Passport09:57 - Why the Trauma Comes Up11:03 - Twenty Years of Anxiety and the Backpack13:37 - Why This Is Not a Concert16:23 - Harmony, Hoot's Partner19:59 - Set and Setting24:33 - The Music Is the Medicine28:51 - Releasing Control33:36 - Not the People You Would Expect36:29 - They Should Have Sent a Poet41:23 - The Ancestors Rooting for Me47:19 - The Night the Clouds Cleared50:53 - What Hoot Does During Ceremony54:47 - Integration Is the Whole Point References Mentioned in This Episode - Books:Sagan, C. (1985). Contact. Simon & Schuster. Quotes Referenced:"They should have sent a poet," from the film adaptation of Contact, which Jon takes as the closest anyone has come to describing the experience. People & Frameworks Cited:Chris Berg, whose post on X led Christian to his first ceremonySet and setting, as studied at Johns Hopkins and Imperial College LondonThe backpack every man carries, and what it holdsThe ski tracks image for integration, and Hoot's answer that if you stare at the tree you hit the tree"The psychedelics are not the medicine. You are."Reality with a capital R, and remembering rather than learning Follow Jon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmatzner/ | https://x.com/MatznerJon | https://jonmatzner.com/Christian Ruf: https://uncommonelite.com | https://x.com/pinpulleddrmfHoot keeps no public profile. To reach him, leave a comment on this episode or DM Jon. 🌎 Brought to you by Sagan Passport: https://saganpassport.comSchedule a free consulting session: https://sagan-passport.link/Free_consultation_book Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LazyLeverageofficialAlso on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lazy-leverage/id1777098486

2. 

   29 Sept 2026

   I Would Not Spend $50,000 on a Front End. (Do This Instead) | Lazy Leverage #128

   We mention a lot of books on this show and never write them down. Fixed that.61 books, 39 essays, 88 episodes, free: https://lazy-leverage.saganpassport.com/ Jon's Airtable had one job description copied 135 times, once for every row. Some of it was written by people and some by AI summaries feeding off other fields, because whenever somebody needed a new thing they added a column. That database has run his recruiting operation for a year and a half. He does not regret it. Peter runs his Airtable with an iron fist and makes people justify every new field to him personally. Jon lets it sprawl and then goes in with a weed whacker. They land in the same place anyway. Jon tells his one remaining coaching client that he would not put a dime into an application layer right now, and would put all of it into the data underneath. In this one: why venture-backed companies build for scale first while everyone else builds for whatever answers today's question. The five terms that made this click for Jon, including ETL and reverse ETL. Why Peter's market rent lives in three systems that never update each other, and what an owner sees on the portal when they disagree. Why Jon turned down a real recruiting system a year and a half ago and says he would be in trouble now if he had not. Peter's three rules for a software stack. And the three grand a month hire he thinks non-technical companies are all about to make. Chapters:00:00 - Intro00:51 - Welcome to Lazy Leverage03:00 - Why a Data Episode Pays05:39 - Venture Builds for Scale, You Built for Profit08:04 - The Same Job Description 135 Times12:24 - Brought to You by Sagan Passport13:42 - The Plain English Definitions15:38 - The Market Rent That Lives in Three Places19:21 - Do Not Spend 50 Grand on a Front End22:47 - Why Jon Refused to Buy an ATS28:11 - All Business Software Is Just a Database33:35 - Put a Developer on Staff35:43 - The Five Problems Behind One Good Search38:06 - Peter's Three Rules for Your Stack42:58 - Who Gets to Pick the Software References Mentioned in This Episode - Books:Pollan, M. (2008). In defense of food: An eater's manifesto. Penguin. Quotes Referenced:Michael Pollan, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." Peter cites it as the shape he wants for his own three rules. People & Frameworks Cited:Source of truth, system of record, and application layerETL and reverse ETLPeter's three rules: limit where data lives, favor open and free APIs, permit no duplicationPolicy, process, tech, with tech lastThe walled gardenVectorizing a candidate database so keyword search stops missing people Tools Mentioned in the Episode:Buildium, AppFolio, Rent Vine, Rent Engine, Airtable, Postgres, Zapier, n8n, Make, Stripe, QuickBooks, Xero, Slack, Monday.com, HubSpot, JotForm, LeadSimple, Indeed, Zillow, Homes.com, Claude Code, Grok Bot, Fable, Cloudflare Workers, Apify, Service Titan, Salesforce, MCP Follow Jon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmatzner/ | https://x.com/MatznerJon | https://jonmatzner.com/Follow Peter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pslohmann/ | https://x.com/pslohmann | https://www.peterlohmann.com/ 🌎 Brought to you by Sagan Passport: https://saganpassport.comSchedule a free consulting session: https://www.saganpassport.com/free-consultation 👷 Join Crane, Peter's community for property management operators: https://www.joincrane.co/ Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LazyLeverageofficialAlso on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lazy-leverage/id1777098486

3. 

   24 Sept 2026

   You Should Be Paying People to Sit Idle. Justin Roff-Marsh. | Lazy Leverage #127

   We mention a lot of books on this show and never write them down. Fixed that.61 books, 39 essays, 88 episodes, free: https://lazy-leverage.saganpassport.com/ A Formula One pit crew is twenty-two people who work for four seconds a race. Nobody has ever suggested firing most of them, because everybody already knows the crew is there to serve the car. Justin Roff-Marsh's question is why that stops being obvious the second you walk past a customer service desk and catch somebody doing nothing. Justin has been consulting for thirty years and wrote The Machine, the book Peter read years ago and still goes back to. For two decades he has been working inside Theory of Constraints on the part nobody else built, an application of it for a whole company rather than a factory floor. That work is a mini book now, called Ode to Speed, and Peter and Jon have been quoting it on the show since episode 93. His argument is that most people who read The Goal came away with the wrong lesson. In this one: why you pick your constraint rather than hunt for it, and why throwing a dart at one beats getting it right. The two numbers Justin says will run any company, throughput per constraint unit and on-time task completion. The black market for tasks that turns up inside every chaotic business. Why a salesperson takes two years to get good when an aircraft engineer takes two months. And Jon saying out loud for the first time that Sagan is pulling AI back to one centralized team, because a manager with a frontier model will optimize their own department at the whole company's expense. Justin's line for that: a three year old without a chainsaw pulls the cat's tail. Give them one and they dissect it. Chapters:00:00 - Intro01:41 - Welcome to Lazy Leverage04:17 - Who He Is, and What The Machine Was06:49 - Why Most People Misread The Goal10:58 - The Pit Crew That Works Four Seconds14:58 - Brought to You by Sagan Passport16:14 - Free Cash Flow, Not Lap Time18:51 - Every Business Has a Heartbeat22:10 - Optimize Many Things, Maximize One27:30 - The Two Numbers That Run a Company33:38 - The Black Market for Tasks40:15 - Pick a Constraint and Throw a Dart47:54 - Pit Crew Behavior and Global Talent51:25 - Your Salesperson Should Never Open the CRM57:39 - Three Jobs Every Two Days1:00:05 - AI Against the Constraint1:06:49 - Where to Find Justin1:08:36 - Clock Speed, and the Next Book References Mentioned in This Episode - Books:Roff-Marsh, J. (2015). The machine: A radical approach to the design of the sales function. Greenleaf Book Group Press.Roff-Marsh, J. (2025). An ode to speed: Why a focus on cost makes organizations weaker, less profitable, and less competitive.Goldratt, E. M., & Cox, J. (1984). The goal: A process of ongoing improvement. North River Press. People & Frameworks Cited:Theory of Constraints, and the enterprise-wide application Justin is buildingThroughput per constraint unit, subordination, and protective capacitySuboptimization, and why a local optimum costs the whole systemThe black market for tasks, and simmering low-level chaos as a default stateSystem time versus natural time, which becomes his next book, Clock SpeedGoldratt's rules for embracing a new technologyIsaac Zimmerman and J. Blanton Plumbing in ChicagoGeorge Yamuni and Mender Bath in MelbourneAdam Smith on the division of laborThe US Marine Corps, where every job is to support the infantry Tools Mentioned in the Episode:Claude, Grok Bot, n8n, CRM, ERP Related Reading:An Ode to Speed and the Field Guide, free: https://justinroffmarsh.substack.com/The episodes that led here: #93, #108, #113, #115 and #123 Follow Jon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmatzner/ | https://x.com/MatznerJon | https://jonmatzner.com/Follow Justin Roff-Marsh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinroffmarsh/ | https://x.com/justinroffmarsh | https://ballistix.com/ 🌎 Brought to you by Sagan Passport: https://saganpassport.comSchedule a free consulting session: https://www.sagan

Who has been a guest on Lazy Leverage

Names identified in recent episode analyses. Showing up to five guests.

• JD Beck
• Jessica Doyle
• Zaki
• Brian Wilson
• Jacob Kline

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

11 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

17 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 42 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

64

Social presence

0

YouTube

0

Engagement

51

Contact Lazy Leverage

Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.

Shows with a similar audience

• 

  Acquiring Minds

• 

  Growth Stacking Show with Dan Martell

• 

  The Game w/ Alex Hormozi

• 

  On The Market

• 

  Owner Occupied with Peter Lohmann

• 

  The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish

Questions about Lazy Leverage