Make music that matters.
Leading Notes Podcast
Claim This Podcastby Melissa Forbes
5.0(1 reviews)
20 episodes
Updated Daily
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2
Podcast Authority
BetaPoorBased on show quality, social media presence, reviews, charts, and more
Quality4
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Podcast Overview
Make music that matters.
Language
🇺🇲
Publishing Since
2/22/2025
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2
Podcast Authority
BetaPoorBased on show quality, social media presence, reviews, charts, and more
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Social0
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4
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excellent
Episode Length
44 minutes
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Recent Episodes
July 31, 2026
18. Leading from the inside out: Inclusion, belonging, and ending loneliness, with Enya Cai
Melissa speaks with Enya Cai, General Manager of Creativity Australia, the national charity behind the With One Voice choir network. With 26 choirs across Australia and a mission to end loneliness through group singing, Creativity Australia sits at a fascinating intersection of community music, social inclusion, and organisational leadership. Enya brings a rare perspective: a childhood spent in the Australian Girls Choir, a career spanning accounting, diversity and inclusion, government policy, and arts management, and a longstanding connection to Creativity Australia that began when she was a teenager volunteering with the organisation. In this conversation, she reflects on what community choir facilitators have in common with corporate leaders, how loneliness really shows up in the people who walk through choir doors, and why patience might be the most underrated skill in both music and life. Key Topics Discussed The With One Voice model: all-inclusive, all-abilities choirs focused on connection over musical perfection The skills that transfer between corporate leadership and choir facilitation How Enya uses vocal warm-ups and arts-based activities in corporate leadership training Why "human-centred" leadership faces pushback, and what's underneath that resistance How loneliness manifests in choir participants—and why most wouldn't identify as lonely The slow, patient process of belonging: how the choir model meets people where they are The realities and complications of choir facilitation as work, including emotional wellbeing and financial sustainability Notable Quotes "The point of our choirs is not to be perfect in a musical way—it's to create connections and community wellbeing through what we know is a proven way of creating beautiful, meaningful, strong connections, and that is through singing together." "The skills required to lead in a corporate setting are just as useful, and in some cases essential, and already displayed in community music settings." "Loneliness can be voices in your head that tell you that no one wants to speak to you. Part of our work is to recognise those people and welcome them in." "Patience is one of the keys to my sustainability in this sector, but also one of the biggest lessons we can continue to learn through community music." "With one wave of my magic wand, I would like for our society to value music makers—and for them to be recognised and paid appropriately for that." Resources Mentioned With One Voice choirs — find a choir near you or enquire about facilitator training About Enya Cai Enya Cai is the General Manager of Creativity Australia, the national charity behind the With One Voice choir network—26 all-inclusive, all-abilities choirs across Australia with a mission to end loneliness through group singing. Her connection to the organisation goes back to her teenage years, when she first volunteered with the then-fledgling choir program. Since then, Enya has built a career that spans public policy in the Victorian government, diversity and inclusion at EY, freelance arts management, theatre producing, and leadership coaching for corporate clients. She holds a Bachelor of Commerce and Graduate Diploma of Chartered Accounting, and brings that financial and strategic acumen to the arts sector with genuine purpose. Outside of work, she loves discovering new restaurants and spending time with her cat, Jelly. Connect with Enya Cai Creativity Australia: creativityaustralia.org.au With One Voice choirs: withonevoice.org.au LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/enyacai/ Episode Highlights 00:01:13 — What Creativity Australia does and the With One Voice mission to end loneliness 02:53 — Enya's journey: from the Australian Girls Choir to accounting, diversity and inclusion, government, and back to the arts 07:35 — The shared skills of corporate leaders and choir facilitators 09:47 — Pushback on human-centred leadership, and what's really behind the resistance 11:31 —
June 30, 2026
17. Confidence, confidence, confidence! On leading musically inclusive activities, with Dr Graham Sattler CF
For Graham Sattler, being a musical inclusion advocate means building a life's work around a single conviction: that music is the activity with the fewest impediments to participation. In this episode, Melissa talks with Graham about the journey that took him from the opera stage and the orchestral trombone section to the heart of community music practice, and the moment in Orange, New South Wales, that crystallised everything. Graham shares what he found when his Churchill Fellowship took him across eight countries investigating best-practice community music leadership training, and why the musicians he met were so strikingly clear about the why, how, and what of their work. He reflects on confidence, courage, and intrinsic motivation as essential leadership qualities; on generosity, compassion, and selflessness as the values that underpin effective practice; and on what happens to a community when leadership changes and those qualities disappear. The conversation also turns to orchestras — Graham is currently CEO of the Christchurch Symphony Orchestra — and what it takes for professional performance organisations to engage authentically with community, rather than as a funding exercise. Honest, thoughtful, and full of hard-won insight, this is a conversation about what it really means to lead music that matters. Key Topics Discussed What "musical inclusion advocate" means and where that framing came from Music as the most accessible participatory activity — and how to respond when that idea is challenged The move from Sydney to Orange, NSW, and the moment community music came into sharp focus The training gap in community music leadership across Australia and the Asia-Pacific What Graham observed in leadership training programs across the US, Canada, Ireland, Scotland, England, Norway, Portugal, and Armenia Confidence, courage, and intrinsic motivation as pillars of effective community music leadership The values common to the best community music leaders: generosity, compassion, and selflessness What happens to a community when leadership changes — and why training matters Professional orchestras and community engagement: honest assessment of where the sector is and where it falls short Community music as 60% of the Christchurch Symphony Orchestra's organisational output Notable Quotes "Music is the most accessible group activity that human beings can engage in — it has the fewest impediments to participation." "Whatever they bring into the room is enough. Human beings are profoundly and intrinsically musical, and music is, similarly, profoundly human." "I discovered what it was to be answerable to, responsible to, identifiable community — and that's when it really crystallised." "I hadn't teased courage out of confidence before — but they are quite different things." "When those qualities aren't there, people notice. People aren't stupid. They can spot a phony." About Graham Sattler Graham Sattler is an Australian musician, educator, and orchestra CEO whose career has taken him from the opera stage to the conductor's podium to the heart of community music practice. He has worked as a trombonist and singer with the Australian Opera, as a conductor of orchestras and choirs across Australia and internationally, and spent over a decade as director of regional conservatoriums in New South Wales — leading music programs with aged, disability, and at-risk youth communities. He holds a PhD in Music Education, a Master of Performance (Conducting), and a Graduate Certificate in the Psychology of Risk. In 2019, Graham was awarded a Churchill Fellowship to investigate best-practice community music leadership training programs across eight countries. He is currently CEO of the Christchurch Symphony Orchestra in Aotearoa New Zealand, where community engagement makes up 60% of the organisation's output. Connect with Graham LinkedIn Christchurch Symphony Orchestra Episode Highlights 00:01:27 — What "musical inclusion advoca
May 31, 2026
16. Embrace the awkward: Community, belonging, and radical welcome, with Joel Carnegie
Joel Carnegie—conductor, broadcaster, and storyteller—talks about Awkwardstra Geelong, a community orchestra that is quietly doing some of the most important social work in the business. Joel shares how he came to Awkwardstra after a demanding period in his professional life, and why the experience fundamentally changed how he thinks about music and leadership. This episode is a masterclass in what inclusive, values-driven music-making can look like in practice. Joel also reflects on his background as a storyteller and how narrative — including the music itself — can convey the value of community music in ways statistics simply can't. Drawing on his training in acting methods and voice work, he offers a thoughtful account of what it means to lead from the podium with empathy, clarity, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty. This conversation is full of practical wisdom and genuine inspiration. Key Topics Discussed The origins of Awkwardstra Geelong and Joel's path to becoming its conductor What radical inclusivity looks like in a community orchestra and the practical structures that support it Managing a wide range of skill levels and experience: music selection, coaching programs, and section support The "Awky Pass" and how the collective supports individual members facing financial barriers The tension between musical quality and inclusivity and why it can be a generative rather than a destructive tension The role of story in making the case for community music, including a commissioned piece built from players' own stories How acting training and voice work inform Joel's practice as a conductor and ensemble leader Empathy, clarity, and openness as core qualities in music leadership What music leadership has to offer organisational leadership more broadly Advice for young musicians interested in community music Notable Quotes "Making music for the joy of it, for creating connections across the community, and for offering people an opportunity to extend themselves — that's really what we're doing here." "The podium never lies. There's no one else you can really be except yourself up there." "We start every rehearsal by recognising that we've all had whatever happened during the day, and we take a moment to arrive into the space — intentionally — and remember that we're in physical bodies playing instruments that are physical." "Music allows us to feel. And when we can feel, we can connect with other people. We're in the business of feeling-making and moment-making." "People getting together and playing music is eternal. And those who are providing the structure for that to happen are creating guardrails and forms of resilience and resistance." "Just because it's not happening in Sydney or Melbourne doesn't mean it is not of value." Resources Mentioned Awkwardstra Geelong — community orchestra based in Geelong, VIC Kym Dillon — composer, pianist, and arranger who created a piece for Awkwardstra based on players' stories; performing with the orchestra again at the Geelong Arts Centre, 17 October 2026 Pako Festa (Pakington Street Festival) — Geelong's largest street festival; Awkwardstra performed as a flash mob opening act Ingrid Martin — Joel's conducting coach ABC Classic Evenings — national radio program hosted by Joel Carnegie About Guest Joel Carnegie is a conductor, performer, and storyteller whose work spans live music, broadcasting, and community engagement. Each weeknight he hosts the national Evenings program on ABC Classic, and his storytelling work has earned recognition at the New York Festivals International Radio Awards and The Whickers, a prestigious international award for audio storytelling. From 2015 to 2024, Joel was Founder and Head of Storytelling at The Space Company, where he led the creation of music-rich podcasts, screen productions, and live stage works — including the nationally touring double bill Stardust + The Mission, which involved over 200 local musicians across 45 cities
20 total episodes available
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