Leading the Way explores the biggest questions facing today’s arts and cultural leaders: how to grow revenue, deepen audience relationships, and lead confidently through uncertainty. Join TRG Arts CEO Jill S. Robinson and her colleagues for candid conversations that combine practical strategy, real audience behavior, and grounded insights into what’s actually working across the sector today.
Loyalty as a Revenue Engine at North Carolina Symphony
Most arts organizations know that marketing and development should work together. Very few actually make it happen.
The North Carolina Symphony (https://ncsymphony.org/) did, and 15 years later, the results speak for themselves: growing earned and contributed revenue, a donor-ready pipeline that converts at twice the industry average, and a culture where every staff member sees themselves as part of the same patron journey.
In this episode, Jill Robinson sits down with Sandi MacDonald, President and CEO; Linda Charlton, VP of Marketing and Audience Development; and Lisa Ransom, VP of Philanthropy. They describe how they broke down departmental silos, built a cross-functional loyalty team, and embedded patron loyalty goals into individual performance reviews.
No new department. No added headcount. Just discipline, shared goals, and a weekly rhythm of tracking and accountability.
As Sandi puts it, "behind every ticket purchase is the potential for a major donor." It's a mindset that starts at the box office and runs all the way to the programming table, and it's producing real, measurable results.
For all episodes of Leading the Way, visit: https://trgarts.com/leadingtheway
(00:42) - – Building a culture of patron loyalty
(05:34) - – Connecting ticket buyers and donors
(10:15) - – Breaking down marketing and philanthropy silos
(12:21) - – From first-time buyer to donor-ready patron
(15:45) - – Making every patron a VIP
(18:54) - – What 15 years of loyalty work has taught North Carolina Symphony
(21:09) - – The metrics that drive patron loyalty
(24:44) - – Turning loyalty into recurring revenue
(28:36) - – Where to start: practical first steps
(33:38) - – Building board confidence in patron relationships
(36:15) - – Programming, stewardship and the patron experience
(41:31) - – The real work of relationship building
(43:53) - – Why marketing belongs at the programming table
8 Sept 2026
How to Grow Loyalty With the Team You Already Have
What happens after someone says yes? The next yes is where patron loyalty starts to deepen, and its value starts to grow.
In this episode, the TRG team looks at what we call Buyers: the relatively small group of people who do more than one thing, more than once. A ticket and another ticket. A subscription and a gift. A membership and more frequent attendance.
That repeated behavior, the “magic of and”, is one of the clearest signals that a relationship is deepening.
But those relationships are still fragile. Organizations put enormous energy into securing the first transaction, subscription, membership or gift, and often much less into making sure it happens again. Yet once someone renews that commitment, their likelihood of renewing again can double or triple. The opportunity is to turn a moment in time into a behavior.
The challenge is that these people often sit between teams. Marketing is focused on attendance. Development is focused on giving. Both may be working with the same person, but toward different goals.
The answer isn’t necessarily more people or a new structure. Start smaller: one shared behavior, one shared measure, and one season of working on it together.
Key Takeaways:
Why repeat engagement tells you more about loyalty than a single large purchase.
Why the second commitment matters so much.
How the “magic of and” helps identify your most promising relationships.
Why shared measures matter more than coordinated calendars.
Where to start when your team is already stretched.
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View all past episodes here: https://trgarts.com/leadingtheway (https://trgarts.com/leadingtheway)
Explore all our other resources, tools and insights here: https://trgarts.com/industry-resources (https://trgarts.com/industry-resources)
13 Aug 2026
Recency: The Metric Nobody's Watching, but Should Be
Lift the lid on most arts organizations' databases and here's what you'll find: no future visit booked. Nothing on the calendar and no plan to come back.
In this episode, the TRG team talks about Recency, a word the field rarely uses but can't afford to ignore.
A full house feels like success, but a house full of first-timers is a very different business than a house full of loyal patrons who keep coming back. That difference never shows up in your capacity-sold number.
We make the case that this isn't really a numbers problem, it's a relationship problem: selling out a house and building loyalty are two different jobs, and “capacity sold” only measures one of them. In its place: something simpler and more critical to repeatable revenue: what percentage of your patrons have a future visit on the books?
We walk through why recency is the gateway to frequency, why frequency is what turns ticket buyers into subscribers, members, and donors, and why moving someone from a 12-month habit to a 6-month habit can be worth more than winning a brand-new customer (at a lower cost, too). It’s also a leadership challenge: resisting the pull toward short-term revenue and building the discipline to invite people back on purpose, at the right moment, over and over.
Press play to hear why "who" matters just as much as "how many," and the one number every leader should go look up in their database this week.
Key takeaways
Why "who" is in the room matters more than "how many", and why capacity sold (the number most teams are judged on) often can't tell the difference.
Why Recency, not capacity sold, is the real measure of whether a relationship is actually growing.
What percentage of your database has a future engagement booked, and why almost no leader can answer that off the top of their head.
Why recency is the gateway to frequency, and frequency is what turns ticket buyers into subscribers, members and donors.
How moving a patron from a 12-month to a 6-month cycle can be worth more than winning a brand-new customer, at a lower cost.
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
YouTube views
34,476
Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025
Apple Podcasts (US)
5.0 / 5
2 ratings
Spotify
5.0 / 5
3 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 31 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
18
Social presence
0
YouTube
76
Engagement
32
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