Legal Soundings

About Legal Soundings

Legal Soundings is a conversation series from Harbor Global exploring how innovation, technology, and leadership are reshaping the legal industry. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host, an internal subject-matter expert, and an external guest who brings a frontline perspective on emerging challenges and opportunities. Together, they break down real-world trends, from AI, to change management and the future of work, in a clear, accessible, and actionable way. Subscribe for practical insights, thoughtful conversations, and a smarter view of where the legal world is heading.

Publisher

Harbor

Category

business

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

27 Jan 2026

Latest episode

23 Sept 2026

Latest episodes

13 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   23 Sept 2026

   Human at the Gate: Why a Curious Culture Beats the Best AI Tools | Legal Soundings S2E2

   Where does human judgment belong once AI moves out of the pilot and into real legal work? Justin Hectus, Managing Director at Harbor Labs, sits down with Eric Dodson-Greenberg, EVP and Chief Legal Officer of Cox Media Group, to unpack his "human at the gate" thesis. Eric's core argument: the value of AI in legal is technology plus anthropology. The tools are only as good as the culture using them, and a curious, motivated team with a decent tool will beat a cautious, indifferent team with the best tool in the world. The conversation covers: Why curiosity, critical thinking, and liberal-arts training matter more in the AI era, not less Off-label uses: pushing vendors as thought partners to adapt tools for problems they weren't built to solve Why "start now, make small bets" beats waiting for the perfect tool Human oversight as an accountability question, not a friction-point map Why legal ops has to be in the room, and why legal may be the on-ramp for enterprise AI adoption Leading by "bad example": modeling that it's okay to try and not have it figured out Owning that AI is more work before it's less The "golden age" of ALSPs and the coming convergence of AI-native and legacy law firms About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor's podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com)

2. 

   10 Sept 2026

   From AI Race to Real Value: ILTACON 2026 Takeaways | Legal Soundings S2E1

   ILTACON 2026 was the biggest in the event's history — 5,600 attendees, three times the booth tonnage, billboards on every wall, and a Sheryl Crow concert. But behind the spectacle, the legal industry is wrestling with harder questions: who is actually buying AI, how do you price work that takes 10 minutes instead of an hour, and is any of this generating real value yet? In the Season 2 premiere of Legal Soundings, host Justin Farmer (Practice Group Leader, Enterprise Solutions, Harbor) debriefs with Cate Giordano (Staff Writer, Legal Tech Hub) and Joe Patrice (Senior Editor, Above the Law) on what they heard on the floor and where the second half of the year is headed. The conversation covers the shift away from the "one AI platform to rule them all" race, why buying power is swinging back toward individual lawyers, the law-school playbook vendors like Harvey are borrowing from Lexis and Westlaw, the Harvard finding that 0% of firms have a mature framework for measuring AI's business impact, the pricing debate (faster doesn't mean cheaper), token costs and the $10,000 billable hour, what corporate legal departments are really buying and why, the $2B+ in legal tech funding tracked this year, and a rapid-fire look at bubbles, model agnosticism, and e-discovery. In this episode: Joe's "wheat vs. chaff" takeaway: there's no winning the platform race — only building good products underneath Who was in the room: directors and managers over a third, CIOs 3%, attorneys just 1% The Lexis/Westlaw "points and pizza parties" model and who's running it now Why 0% of surveyed firms can measure AI's business impact (Harvard Legal Lab) Pricing: hourly vs. value-based vs. subscription vs. AFAs — and why everyone's take is self-serving Why "pass the AI costs to us" from in-house counsel is "adorable" What corporate legal is actually buying: contract tools, not bet-the-company litigation ILTACON as a marketing and capital-markets event Predictions: frontier model bubble, model agnosticism, funding cooling, e-discovery heating up About Legal Soundings Legal Soundings is Harbor's podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com)

3. 

   24 Jun 2026

   When Sales Culture Wins: Inside the BD Program behind Benesch's decade of growth | Legal Soundings EP11

   Sales culture in law firms isn't about turning lawyers into sellers. It's about the structures, incentives, and shared accountability that make growth a team habit — and Benesch has built one of the best. In this episode, Zena Applebaum is joined by Kori Fahrner (Business Development Manager, Benesch) and Beth Cuzzone (VP, Global Growth Marketing, Intapp, and co-founder of LASSO — the Legal Sales and Service Organization) to unpack how Benesch became the first firm to win two LASSO awards back-to-back. The conversation moves from the Team Everest rainmaker program and its 327% revenue growth, to whether that success is replicable, to why technology should be a system of action rather than a system of record — and the human relationships that AI frees up, not replaces. What you'll hear: Why sales culture is about systems and incentives, not training lawyers to sell Inside Team Everest: How a 19-partner program scaled past 35 and helped drive 327% revenue growth Whether Benesch's results are replicable, or down to culture Why recognition programs only work when tied to a broader culture CRM as a "system of action," not a database — and AI as a coworker The one non-tech tool every BD team needs: real transparency and collaboration Lightning round: the biggest myths, what firms still get wrong, and the voice of the client Guests: Kori Fahrner, Business Development Manager, Benesch Friedlander Coplan & Aronoff LLP Beth Cuzzone, VP, Global Growth Marketing, Intapp; Co-Founder, LASSO Host: Zena Applebaum, Head of Marketing, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor's podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com) Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss the next episode.

4. 

   11 Jun 2026

   You Can’t Buy Maturity: Legal Ops from Startup to Global Scale | Legal Soundings EP10

   You can buy tools. You can’t buy maturity. That’s the throughline as two legal ops leaders at opposite ends of the scale spectrum compare notes on building a function that actually changes how a legal department works. In this episode, Kevin Clem is joined by Adam Becker (Director of Legal Operations, Cockroach Labs) and Donovan Bell (Head of Global Legal Operations, Intel) — both CLOC board members — to unpack what legal ops maturity really means. From standing up a function in weeks at a 500-person startup to keeping legal ops strategic (and not bureaucratic) across thousands of people and dozens of countries, the conversation gets honest about AI hype, retirement plans for old tools, and why legal ops is a contact sport. What you’ll hear: Why maturity is a behavior change, not a checklist or a maturity-model score The unglamorous first move that makes the fastest impact (hint: it’s about knowledge, not software) “Barometer, not a barrier” — keeping legal ops strategic at global scale Why every new tool should ship with a retirement plan for an old one How to tell whether an AI initiative is real maturity or just more tech sprawl Why “low-hanging fruit” is a myth — and what to chase instead The one thing legal departments still get wrong about legal ops Guests: Adam Becker, Director of Legal Operations, Cockroach Labs Donovan Bell, Head of Global Legal Operations, Intel Corporation Host: Kevin Clem, EVP, Client Engagement – Corporations, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor’s podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com) Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don’t miss the next episode.

5. 

   20 May 2026

   The Future of CRM in Legal: Intelligence, AI, and What Comes Next | Legal Soundings EP09

   CRM has been a fixture in law firms for decades — yet attorney adoption has dropped from 29% to 18% over the past year. Is CRM broken, or are we measuring success the wrong way? In this episode, Zena Applebaum is joined by Laura Saklad (VP, Legal Industry, Intapp) and Sarah Happy (Director, Marketing Technology, Harbor) to unpack where CRM stands today and where agentic AI is taking it next. The conversation moves from why "attorney logins" is the wrong KPI, to what an agentic CRM workflow actually looks like, to the realities of headless CRM in a legal context — and the data, governance, and trust problems that technology alone won't solve. What you'll hear: Why CRM's biggest problem isn't software — it's data What a real agentic CRM workflow looks like (and why lateral integration is a killer use case) Whether attorneys will ever trust auto-populated data (spoiler: they already do, in places) Headless CRM in legal — hype, reality, and why "headless horseman" isn't a great brand Why governance is a people problem, not a technology problem The one piece of advice every firm should hear before investing in CRM in 2026 Guests: Laura Saklad, Vice President, Legal Industry, Intapp Sarah Happy, Director, Marketing Technology, Harbor Host: Zena Applebaum, Head of Marketing, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor’s podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa1VUM2NpUkkyVjNSQkQyMmpyWmRzcVNoUDl4Z3xBQ3Jtc0tsYkp3VXNHejRtMjdRRnRDRndabjJoVFlFa2ZEUFo4TDNEYzNKWXVhY0Q1eFUxV0JIYXJ6bUh3NTV3eVZsQ25YclpjaGYwaTd2V3B5X1hnVW4wdEpCOGRVdlZpTjMweVllMXJmZ1FpN0NqSC12d3hOaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fharborglobal.com%2F&v=wq-y2y9innE)

6. 

   6 May 2026

   The Fight for the Table Is Over. Now What? | Legal Soundings EP08

   Legal operations finally won the seat at the table — but the table itself has changed. In this special CGI edition of Legal Soundings, host Lauren Chung is joined by CLOC President & CEO Oyango A. Snell and Organon's Stacy Lettie to unpack the 2026 CLOC/Harbor State of the Industry Report. The conversation moves past the old fight for legitimacy into the harder question: now that legal ops is part of the strategic core, how does it drive enterprise value? They dig into the productivity gap law departments are facing (rising demand, flat budgets, flat headcount), how AI has shifted from theoretical fear to practical force, the metrics GCs should be tracking but mostly aren't, and a candid look at what high-performing law departments will look like three years from now — including which work lawyers will simply stop touching. In this episode: Why "the fight for the seat at the table" is over The productivity gap: rising demand against flat resources AI a year later — what's working vs. what's still aspirational Benchmarking as a discipline, not an exercise The metric every GC should track (but most don't) What legal ops leaders should stop doing immediately Learn more at harborglobal.com (http://harborglobal.com).

7. 

   22 Apr 2026

   Why AI Is the First Technology Lawyers Want | Legal Soundings EP07

   Every technology leader in legal has lived through the painful rollout — the tool nobody asked for, the training nobody attended, the adoption curve that flatlined. So what's different about AI? For the first time, lawyers are coming to IT to ask how to integrate it into their practice. The built-in perception of value is already there. In this episode, Jeffrey Roach (Harbor Global) sits down with Evette Pastoriza (CIO, Mayer Brown) and Magdalena Suder (Director of Clients, Markets & Growth Operations, Ashurst) to unpack what that shift really means — and why having eager lawyers doesn't automatically solve the adoption problem. They discuss why "build it, and they will come" still fails, how to sell outcomes instead of systems, the psychological weight of asking lawyers to break workflows they've tested and trusted for years, and how to use AI's gravitational pull to lift adoption of less glamorous (but equally critical) tools. Magdalena closes with a practical three-part framework for any legal tech rollout: Diagnose the real barriers, stakeholder by stakeholder; Design communications tailored to those barriers; and Sustain through champions, measurement, and iteration. Key takeaways: AI is the first legal technology with built-in perceived value — lawyers see it as non-optional, which is unprecedented Perception matters more than reality: adoption is behavioral, not technical Change management should start before the business case, not after go-live Lawyers resist change not out of stubbornness but because they've carefully built trusted processes — breaking that trust is the real ask Use AI's momentum to elevate the adoption of other critical but less visible tools (CRM, matter intake, BI) Magdalena's Diagnose → Design → Sustain framework applies to any rollout, not just AI Learn more about Harbor: harborglobal.com (http://harborglobal.com)

8. 

   8 Apr 2026

   Working with Dinosaurs: Why AI Adoption in Law Is a Perception Problem, Not a Technology Problem | Legal Soundings EP06

   The AI tools are more powerful than ever — so why are law firms still struggling to see returns? In this episode, Brooke Daniels is joined by Marcus East (Autodesk; author of Working with Dinosaurs) and Allan Lamkin (Harbor Global CTO, former CIO at Paul Hastings) to dig into the real blockers: culture, process, talent, and the unique challenge of selling change to a profession built on skepticism. They explore why most firms feel behind but aren't, how to find and empower change champions inside practice groups, the messy reality of legal data scattered across iManage, Elite, and O365, and what leaders can do right now to start closing the gap between AI promise and AI payoff. Marcus shares case studies from Lloyd's of London and National Geographic, and Allan breaks down what a practice-group-by-practice-group rollout actually looks like. If you lead technology, innovation, or operations at a law firm or corporate legal department, this one's for you. Key takeaways: Only ~5% of AI investments are delivering expected ROI (per MIT research) — culture and process are the gap Lawyers are natural skeptics; adoption requires data-driven proof, practice-group-specific workflows, and internal champions Democratizing data access is critical but requires leadership courage — especially around fears of disrupting the associate pyramid The firms that win in 3 years won't just improve productivity — they'll fundamentally re-engineer how they operate Picking the right technology partner matters more than building everything in-house Subscribe for future episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about Harbor: harborglobal.com (http://harborglobal.com)

9. 

   25 Mar 2026

   The First 90 Days vs The First 5 Years: Leading Innovation in Law Firms | Legal Soundings EP05

   Legal Innovation Is No Longer Optional — It's Expected Host Zena Applebaum talks with Wendy Curtis (Chief Innovation Officer, Orrick) and John Koss (Head of Innovation, AI, E-Data Consulting, Mintz) about leading innovation inside law firms — from day one to long-term impact. Wendy brings 15+ years of building Orrick's innovation function; John is fresh off his first year after transitioning from litigation. They cover the real challenges: change management failures, measuring ROI beyond hours saved, combating tool fatigue, and why law departments are emerging as surprising early AI adopters. Key takeaways: 92% of law firm COOs say innovation/KM is a 2026 priority Innovation teams need independence — own budgets, own structure Change management ownership must be assigned before buying any tool Measure success by the problem you set out to solve, not hours saved "Process pros, not tech pros" will unlock AI value Law departments are becoming early adopters of AI as a business function One word for 2026: "Hope" (Wendy) and "Confidence" (John) Legal Soundings is the podcast from Harbor. Learn more: harborglobal.com

10. 

    11 Mar 2026

    From AI Hype to Enterprise Reality: Where Legal Innovation Is Actually Heading | Legal Soundings EP04

    Is the AI transformation in legal real or still just hype? Three years into the generative AI revolution, Legal Soundings host Zena Applebaum sits down with two of the most respected voices in legal journalism, Bob Ambrogi (LawSites) and Stephanie Wilkins (LegalTech Hub), for a candid conversation about what’s actually changing in law firms, legal departments, and the broader legal ecosystem. From back-office automation to the future of the billable hour, Bob and Stephanie share what they’re seeing on the ground. They discuss how in-house counsel are driving tech adoption, why consolidation is accelerating and why Model Context Protocol (MCP) may be the most underestimated trend in legal tech today. Whether you’re a GC evaluating new tools, a law firm leader navigating change, or a legal tech founder trying to break through the noise, this episode cuts through the hype to tell you what’s actually happening, and what’s coming next. Guests Bob Ambrogi — Editor, LawSites | Legal tech journalist covering the industry for 30+ years Stephanie Wilkins — Director of Content, Legal Tech Hub Hosted by Zena Applebaum — Head of Marketing, Harbor To learn more about Harbor’s work across law firms and corporate legal departments, visit https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com)

11. 

    25 Feb 2026

    How Information Professionals Are Shaping AI Strategy in Law Firms | Legal Soundings EP03

    In this episode, host Colleen Cable sits down with Greg Lambert, Chief Innovation Officer at Jackson Walker, and April Brousseau, Director at Harbor's Library and Research Group, to explore how information professionals are uniquely positioned to lead the AI revolution in legal — if they're willing to seize the moment. Greg and April draw on decades of experience navigating every major technology shift in the legal industry, from print to internet to knowledge management to generative AI. They make a compelling case that the skills librarians and information specialists have always held — organizing information, verifying outputs, understanding workflows — are exactly what law firms need most right now. Key topics covered: How both guests evolved from traditional library roles into innovation and strategic leadership Why this AI inflection point is different, and why information professionals risk "giving it away" again if they're not careful The shift from being a business service to being a strategic partner, and what that language change requires What law firms are overestimating about AI Why "garbage in, garbage out" means AI governance and content creation are undervalued, and who's best suited to lead that work The future of training Practical advice for information professionals at any career stage who want to position themselves as strategic leaders Guests: Greg Lambert - Chief Innovation Officer, Jackson Walker April Bursson - Director, Library and Research Group, Harbor To learn more about Harbor’s work across law firms and corporate legal departments, visit:https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com/) Subscribe to Legal Soundings wherever you get your podcasts.

12. 

    11 Feb 2026

    Top 5 Data Trends for Law Firms in 2026 | Legal Soundings EP02

    As law firms head into 2026, data has become one of the most powerful—and misunderstood—drivers of growth, differentiation, and client trust. In this episode of Legal Soundings, host Bobbi Basile is joined by Zena Applebaum and Rachel Shields Williams,  Director, Client Intelligence at Sidley Austin LLP, for a deep, practical conversation on the top five data trends shaping law firms in 2026. Together, they explore why firms continue to struggle with fragmented systems, poor data quality, and underutilized insights—and what it will actually take to turn data into a strategic asset. Rather than focusing on dashboards and reports, this conversation zeroes in on how firms can use data to strengthen client relationships, improve business development outcomes, reduce risk, and make AI investments pay off. Why fragmented relationship and experience data prevents firms from achieving a true 360-degree view of clients How poor data quality and incomplete records undermine trust, analytics, and AI initiatives What it takes to turn data into actionable revenue insights, not just static reporting Why data governance, privacy, and AI ethics are now core business imperatives for law firms The critical role of change management and culture in building a data-driven firm Throughout the discussion, the guests emphasize a recurring theme: technology alone isn’t the answer. Success in 2026 will depend on aligning people, processes, and platforms—while keeping a human in the loop—to ensure data supports smarter decisions, deeper relationships, and sustainable growth. Whether you’re a law firm leader, business development professional, technologist, or legal operations executive, this episode offers a clear roadmap for navigating the data challenges—and opportunities—ahead. 🎧 Listen now and subscribe to Legal Soundings for more conversations on the future of law, technology, and innovation.

13. 

    27 Jan 2026

    Talent & Innovation in the Age of AI

    Artificial intelligence is changing the way legal professionals work, communicate, and collaborate. In this first episode of Legal Soundings, host Chris Ryan talks with Matt Peters and Lauren Chung about the opportunities and challenges emerging as AI becomes embedded in legal workflows. They discuss talent readiness, practical innovation, organizational change, and how legal teams can prepare for the next wave of technological disruption. If you’re responsible for legal operations, innovation strategy, or people leadership, this is the perfect place to start. Key themes: • AI’s impact on talent and skills • What meaningful innovation looks like • Change management inside legal teams • Leadership in a period of rapid transformation • The future of legal tech adoption Legal Soundings is produced by Harbor Global. Learn more at: https://harborglobal.com (https://harborglobal.com)

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

3 ratings