Welcome to Let's Talk Email, the podcast that dives deep into the world of email. Join hosts Jay Oram and Steven Sayo as they explore everything from the intricacies of email design and coding to the latest platforms, accessibility best practices, and upcoming industry events. Whether you're a seasoned email developer, a marketer looking to boost your campaigns, or simply curious about the technology behind your inbox, Let's Talk Email is your essential guide to navigating the ever-evolving landscape of digital communication. Tune in for expert insights, lively discussions, and a healthy dose of email geekery.
From Coder to Advocate: Mark Robbins on the Future of Email Development and AI
In this episode of Let's Talk Email, Steven and Jay are joined by industry veteran Mark Robbins, the new Developer Advocate at Customer.io.
Mark takes us behind the scenes of his career to Developer Advocate and shares his vision for the future of email development.
Key topics covered:
Advocating for Developers: What exactly is a Developer Advocate, and why does the email community need them?
AI & Components: Why AI is great at handling modular components but struggles with the "spaghetti code" of legacy email tables.
26 Jul 2026
How Big is Too Big? The Definitive Guide to Email Image Optimization
In this episode of Let's Talk Email, Steven and Jay dive into the visual side of email development: Image Optimization and Video. We tackle the age-old debate of file size limits—how big is too big for a GIF? We also explore the frontier of video in the inbox, discussing everything from the "MP4-as-an-image" hack for Apple Mail to the enterprise-level solutions like Playable and EyeMail. Plus, we take a trip down memory lane to discuss the "dark arts" of pixel art and CSS-only gradients in tables.
Key topics covered:
Baseline Best Practices: Why we aim for 100kb–200kb for statics and the 3MB sweet spot for GIFs.
The Tools of the Trade: How to get the most out of Photoshop's "Save for Web (Legacy)," EZGIF, and TinyPNG.
Video in Email Demystified: The server-side nightmare of hosting video and why a GIF with a play button is still the industry standard.
The "MP4 Hack": How to use the picture element to serve high-quality silent video to Apple users.
Accessibility & Motion: Managing "cognitive load" and why animating all 9 products in a grid is a bad idea.
Retro Email Dev: A look back at images and gradients made from tables for when images were blocked.
Resources Mentioned:EZGIF.comTinyPNGPlayable & EyeMailRemove.bg
26 Jul 2026
The Digital Sidekick: Integrating AI into Your Technical Workflow with Zachery Rose
In this episode of Let's Talk Email, Steven and Jay are joined by Zachery Rose, Manager of Global Email Delivery at Klaviyo, for a conversation that balances technical precision with the future of development.
We explore how AI and Large Language Models are changing the day-to-day life of an email professional. Far from replacing us, we discuss how AI acts as a "digital co-worker" helping developers write complex scripts, troubleshoot code, and speed up the brainstorming process. Zach shares his perspective on why AI is a tool for efficiency, provided you know how to ask the right questions.
Episode Resources:
Council of AIhttps://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/pewdiepie-creates-an-ai-council-appoints-himself-supreme-leader-and-wipes-out-members-who-underperform-only-for-his-councillors-to-work-against-him/ (https://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/pewdiepie-creates-an-ai-council-appoints-himself-supreme-leader-and-wipes-out-members-who-underperform-only-for-his-councillors-to-work-against-him/)Jonathan Pay - D&D in emailhttps://jonathanpay.com/2021/07/12/how-playing-dd-builds-better-teams/ (https://jonathanpay.com/2021/07/12/how-playing-dd-builds-better-teams/)
Book Recommendation: The Alignment Problem by Brian Christiahttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50489349-the-alignment-problem/ (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50489349-the-alignment-problem/)Oath of an Engineerhttps://web.archive.org/web/20200214213805/http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=6 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200214213805/http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=6)
26 Jul 2026
Mastering CSS Snow: Bringing Interactive Animations to the Inbox
In this episode of Let's Talk Email, the holiday spirit (and the CSS) is in the air. Steven and Jay dive into the technical side of creative email development as Jay walks us through a masterclass on CSS Snow Animations.
We start with the basics of the original code from 2018 and evolve the code into a sophisticated, multi-layered animation that works across various email clients. If you've ever wanted to add a touch of "wow factor" to your campaigns without breaking the inbox, this deep dive into keyframes and animation logic is for you.
Resources: Snow Code Link:
https://codepen.io/emailjay/pen/emzmpRg ( https://codepen.io/emailjay/pen/emzmpRg)
26 Jul 2026
Design Systems and Ghost Tables: A Look Inside Email Code
In this episode of Let's Talk Email, Steven and Jay dive deep into the code to explore the foundations of Email Design Systems. Steven walks us through a live template build using Parcel.io, breaking down the essential anatomy of a robust email—from meta tags and reset styles to modular content blocks.
Then, we explore the concept of Ghost Tables. What are they, and why are they still necessary for taming Outlook? We debate the pros and cons of hybrid coding, discuss how to handle the tricky "Gmail app on non-Gmail account" rendering issue, and share tips on documenting your code for future sanity.
Resources Mentioned:
Email Code Example: https://parcel.io/e/feaf1ddf-dcaa-45f8-b3c0-26fa504dc4eb?wrap=true (https://parcel.io/e/feaf1ddf-dcaa-45f8-b3c0-26fa504dc4eb?wrap=true)
parcel.io: https://parcel.io (https://parcel.io)
Jay's Email Resets: https://github.com/JayOram/email-css-resets/tree/main (https://github.com/JayOram/email-css-resets/tree/main)
Mark Robbins' Good Email Code: https://www.goodemailcode.com/ (https://www.goodemailcode.com/)
List of responsive email types: https://sayo1337.medium.com/help-im-a-new-email-developer-bb6f59351d8a (https://sayo1337.medium.com/help-im-a-new-email-developer-bb6f59351d8a)
How to Target: https://howtotarget.email/ (https://howtotarget.email/)
Email Comb: https://codsen.com/os/email-comb/play (https://codsen.com/os/email-comb/play)
26 Jul 2026
First Guest Alert! From In-House to Agency with Megan Boshuyzen
Welcome to Let's Talk Email! In this very special episode, co-hosts Steven and Jay welcome their first official guest: Megan Boshuyzen, Development Lead at Inbox Army.Megan joins us to discuss her recent move from an in-house, brand-side role to the fast-paced world of an email agency.
We dive deep into the differences between the two environments, from the level of freedom and scope of work to the sheer volume and variety of email challenges you face when developing for multiple clients. Plus, Megan shares her experience designing new email design systems and adapting to the different demands of agency life.
Episode Resources:
How to Start Building an Effective Email Design System
https://www.emailonacid.com/blog/article/email-development/start-email-design-system/ (https://www.emailonacid.com/blog/article/email-development/start-email-design-system/)
Megan's Recommendation for tracking Jewish Holidays
https://www.hebcal.com/ (https://www.hebcal.com/)
Honourable Mention:
Email Love
https://emaillove.com/ (https://emaillove.com/)
Email Testing Software:
Email on Acid
https://www.emailonacid.com/ (https://www.emailonacid.com/)
Testi@
https://testi.at/ (https://testi.at/)
Inbox Monster
https://inboxmonster.com/ (https://inboxmonster.com/)
Litmus
https://www.litmus.com/ (https://www.litmus.com/)
26 Jul 2026
What The @font-face?! Your Fonts Don't Work, and We Know Why
Welcome to Let's Talk Email, the brand new podcast where Jay and I dive into everything email. In this episode, we're getting to the bottom of the email font debate. We're talking @import, link, and @font-face and the pros and cons of each method. We're also talking about the infamous German GDPR case, and the importance of fallback font stacks.
Whether you're new to email coding or a seasoned veteran, there's always something new to learn in this world of pixels and code. So, let's talk email!
Websites referenced:
Jay's Font Article:
https://lessonsinemail.com/articles/typography-in-email
How To Target Email
https://www.howtotarget.email/ (https://www.howtotarget.email/)
Can I Email
https://www.caniemail.com/ (https://www.caniemail.com/)
CSS Fonts Stack
https://www.cssfontstack.com/ (https://www.cssfontstack.com/)
Modern Font Stacks
https://modernfontstacks.com/ (https://modernfontstacks.com/)
Email Geeks Slack
https://email.geeks.chat/ (https://email.geeks.chat/)
Steven's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sayo1337/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sayo1337/)
Jay's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayoram/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayoram/)
Contact Let's Talk Email
Guest appearances
Books guests
Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.
Host of Let's Talk Email?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show Podcast research with Pod Engine
