What happens to your identity when your job disappears? Life Between Titles is the podcast for anyone navigating career transition, job loss recovery, and the hard work of career reinvention — told through honest, human stories.
Whether you are between jobs, titles, or directions, Life Between Titles reminds you that the in-between is not the end. It is where transformation begins. Hosted by Savan Kong, a former federal employee and product executive who has lived through layoff, reinvention, and the question of who you are when your title is gone.
25 Years at CIA and NGA. Then 13 Surgeries and a Cat Named Keith.
Liz Sherman was at her desk at CIA when the second plane hit. Her husband was inside the White House Situation Room. She couldn't get a line through.
She spent 25 years in American intelligence — imagery analyst at CIA, program mission manager at ODNI, and a career at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency that included a 2009 deployment to Balad Air Base in Iraq and a final posting as National GEOINT Officer for Africa. This is the conversation about what that career cost her, and what she built when it ended.
The morning of 9/11 from inside the building. The lupus she worked through and told almost nobody about. The counterterrorism conference she had to walk out of because her son had tied her daughter to a tree. The cancer diagnosis during COVID, thirteen surgeries, and the rescue cat who sat with her through all of it — and became a 501(c)3 that sends care packages to cancer patients.
CHAPTERS
0:00 The Situation Room
5:33 After 9/11, it was all here
7:26 What it cost
11:08 Keith
17:36 Never alone
ABOUT LIZ SHERMAN
25 years at CIA and NGA. Texas A&M class of '91 and a former reporter for The Battalion. Now Associate Professor of the Practice at the Bush School of Government & Public Service and in the Department of Geography at Texas A&M, where she built the university's geospatial intelligence certificate.
Keith the Cat Foundation → https://keiththecat.org
ABOUT THE SHOW
Life Between Titles is where the people who ran America's hardest institutions talk honestly about what happened when the institution let them go, and what they built next. Hosted by Savan Kong — inaugural Customer Experience Officer (CXO) for the U.S. Department of Defense, former General Manager at Rebellion Defense, and Defense Digital Service alum. He has been on both sides of this.
Newsletter → https://lifebetweentitles.com
#CIA #Intelligence #FederalCareers
31 Jul 2026
Kathleen Hicks: Leading the Pentagon as the First Woman in the Room
Kathleen Hicks became the first Senate-confirmed woman to serve as Deputy Secretary of Defense, the highest-ranking woman in the department's history. She left the role in January 2025, her third time leaving government, after three decades building a career she never approached as a burden to carry, but as a duty to hand off. This is a Work Unscripted conversation about leadership, confidence, and what it actually takes to lead the Pentagon as a woman in a role no woman had held before.
In this episode:
What her first week of civilian life looked like after leaving the Pentagon
Why she calls public service jobs a duty and not something you own
The weight, or lack of it, she felt as the first woman in her role
How she built confidence without ever claiming to have all the answers
Her advice to young women navigating doubt and discrimination at work
CHAPTERS
Leaving the Pentagon: what freedom looked like in week one
Three exits from government and what changed each time
Being the first woman as Deputy Secretary of Defense
Confidence, curiosity, and why she never claims to know everything
Advice for young women in mission-driven careers
23 Jul 2026
She Started as CIO of Maryland 8 Months Pregnant. Here's What She Built.
Katie Savage took the CIO job for the state of Maryland eight months pregnant. She came from Defense Digital Service, where she learned that the most important thing any technology organization can do is build in-house expertise rather than outsource its thinking to vendors. In Maryland, she found a team that managed contracts. She built a different kind of team. This is a Work Unscripted conversation about what it takes to lead a technology organization at scale, what it's like to be a woman doing it, and what she's building for the six million people who depend on Maryland's systems.In this episode:- What it was like to start a major CIO role eight months pregnant and what that forced her to figure out fast- How she shifted Maryland's tech organization from vendor management to in-house expertise- What Maryland's infrastructure actually includes: their own fiber network, first responder radio, and the public benefits platform that handles SNAP, WIC, and energy assistance- What female leadership in tech looks like when you stop trying to lead like your male predecessors- What the DDS experience gave her that most state CIOs don't haveCHAPTERS0:00 – Judging a datathon and the human-centered design principle she never stops preaching6:00 – How she got to DDS and why the CIO track was always the plan7:30 – Starting as Maryland CIO eight months pregnant and what that was like9:30 – What it means to lead as a woman and stop trying to lead like your male predecessors10:00 – The mentors who dragged chairs to tables for her and what she does in return14:30 – What a state CIO actually does and how Maryland's portfolio is different16:30 – Maryland's fiber network, first responder radio, and the DC plane crash17:30 – Building in-house talent and recruiting former USDS and DOGE employees18:30 – The public benefits platform: SNAP, WIC, and what it means to serve six million people_________Buy the LBT book: https://amzn.to/4fQUVakSupport LBT → https://buymeacoffee.com/lifebtwtitlesListen→ Spotify: https://sptfy.in/fd0u | Apple: https://apple.co/4mkfOwpGuests & Sponsors → https://www.lifebetweentitles.com/become-a-sponsor#lifebetweentitles #careertransition #personaldevelopment #lifetransition #identityshift
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