- 13
- Episodes
- 4
- Ratings
- Weekly
- Cadence
- 2026
- First episode
About Make or Break
Data, measurement, and experience for the intersection of disruption and people.
- Publisher
- Mo Berkner Boyt
- Category
- business
- Language
- en
- Explicit
- No
- First episode
- 8 Jan 2026
- Latest episode
- 24 Sept 2026
Latest episodes
13 episodes in the feed.
24 Sept 2026
The Problem With Treating Change Like a Project
In this episode of Make or Break Hot Take Edition, Mo Berkner Boyt sits down with Michelle Yanahan, principal and owner of ChangeFit 360, for a conversation about what change leaders keep getting wrong. Michelle argues that too much change work is still measured by activity instead of impact, shaped by templates instead of context, and managed like a project when people actually experience it as a constant, overlapping human reality. Throughout the conversation, Michelle makes the case for a more disciplined and more human approach. She points to behavioral science as a practical lens for identifying the specific actions people need to take, measuring behaviors that predict adoption, and reinforcing change through the leaders, peers, and relationships closest to the work. She pushes for metrics tied to behavior, leader support, stakeholder voice, and the outcomes the change is meant to produce, rather than lagging indicators typically used. Mo and Michelle challenge some of the field of change management’s cookie-cutter techniques by calling out the false comfort of deliverables that do not drive results, and questioning the idea that people adopt change one initiative at a time. Michelle’s perspective on AI brings the argument into the present: organizations treating AI as another technology rollout will miss the deeper culture shift underneath it. The throughline is clear from start to finish: change becomes more effective when it is designed around human behavior and connection and the lived experience of the people asked to implement it. Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change: https://c2iq.io/spotify https://c2iq.io/apple https://c2iq.io/audible (https://c2iq.io/audible) https://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak (https://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak) – Follow + Connect with our guest: Michelle Yanahan LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-yanahan-changefit360/ Website - https://changefit360.com/ (https://changefit360.com/)
17 Sept 2026
What It Takes to Lead Change People Can Trust
In this episode of Make or Break Hot Take, Mo Berkner Boyt talks with Rachel Breitbach, Practice Lead and Senior Advisor at Farwell, about the key elements that help people navigate change. Rachel shares her own path from aspiring sports broadcaster to HR and ultimately into the world of change leadership as a “recovering HR professional.” A central theme of the conversation is that change is about plans and executive alignment. And it is ultimately about trust, whether teams understand the change that is occurring and know what they need to do differently to ensure that they feel equipped to do it. Rachel argues that strong change leadership depends on trust and introduces the TIE Model: transparency, inclusion, and empathy, as an effective change management strategy. She also challenges the instinct many leaders have to wait until they have all the answers before communicating. In her view, waiting too long creates more fear than honesty ever does. Their conversation also explores psychological safety, ownership, and the importance of helping people move from feeling like change is happening to them to feeling like they have agency within it. Together, Mo and Rachel touch on that there might be something to be learned from the Tooth Fairy and make the case that resilience, connection, and trust are not abstract cultural ideas.They are practical capabilities that leaders can strengthen to help organizations respond to disruption more effectively. Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change: https://c2iq.io/spotify https://c2iq.io/apple https://c2iq.io/audible (https://c2iq.io/audible) https://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak (https://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak) – Follow + Connect with our guest: Rachel Breitbach LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-breitbach/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-breitbach/) Website - https://www.gofarwell.com/ (https://www.gofarwell.com/)
10 Sept 2026
Slow Down to Move Forward: A Better Approach to Change
What makes organizational change succeed or lose momentum? In this episode of Make or Break, Hot Takes Edition, Mo Berkner Boyt speaks with Riley Smith and Keely Middleton from Propeller Consulting about the human realities behind transformation. They discuss why pilots and sandboxes can reveal whether a change works in practice, how workarounds expose resistance to new processes, and why sentiment should be viewed from an ongoing, 30,000 foot perspective rather than as a collection of isolated anecdotes. The conversation also explores the value of slowing down early to understand an organization before designing the solution, especially when leaders are under pressure to move quickly. Riley and Keely challenge the idea that resistance is inherently negative. Resistance can provide useful information, if leaders listen, investigate, and use it to adjust the approach. They also share why leadership visibility must include people managers, how informal influencers can strengthen adoption, and why change saturation includes both competing projects and the everyday rhythms of the business. The episode closes with reflections on change resilience and the value of finding a professional community while the pace of change continues to accelerate.Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change:https://c2iq.io/spotifyhttps://c2iq.io/applehttps://c2iq.io/audiblehttps://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak –Follow + Connect with our guest:Riley Smith & Keely MiddletonRiley LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rileysmith23/ Keely LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/keely-middleton/ Website - https://propeller.com/
22 Jul 2026
Why People Still Make or Break Change in the Age of AI
In this episode of Make or Break, Mo Berkner Boyt chats with Jeremy Ford of North Highland about what really makes change stick in the age of AI. Together, they challenge the idea that AI is taking over change management and make the case that trust, authenticity, and vulnerability still drive successful transformation. Jeremy shares why frontline managers are often the make-or-break link between leadership’s message and real adoption on the ground. They explore why every change has its own fingerprint and why participation fosters acceptance far more effectively than top-down communication alone.From leadership vulnerability to human-centered adoption, this episode shares sharp takes on what it takes to lead change when the pressure to move fast is only increasing. Tune in as Jeremy leaves Mo with a new Boston expression she says she’ll be using forever and she hopes you will too. Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change:https://c2iq.io/spotifyhttps://c2iq.io/applehttps://c2iq.io/audible–Follow + Connect with our guest:Jeremy Ford LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-ford-profile/Website: https://northhighland.com/
1 Jul 2026
Why Resistance Isn’t the Real Killer in Change: How Overwhelm Stops Progress
In this episode of Make or Break Hot Takes, powered by C2IQ, Mo Berkner Boyt sits down with Laurel Haller from West Monroe for a candid conversation live from ACMP Change Orlando. This fast fresh conversation explores what really makes change work, and why so many transformation efforts fail when leaders overlook the human side.Laurel shares sharp insights on what change leaders often get wrong, from resistance and overwhelm to trust, communication, and support. We dig into the realities of leading people through uncertainty and why a more human-centered approach can help organizations drive better outcomes.If you’re looking for a compelling conversation on what drives successful change, this episode delivers practical perspective and real-world relevance for today’s leaders.Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change:https://c2iq.io/spotifyhttps://c2iq.io/applehttps://c2iq.io/audiblehttps://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak –Follow + Connect with our guest:Laurel Haller LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurelhaller/ Website - https://www.westmonroe.com/
25 Jun 2026
The Future of Work: AI, Data, and Human-Centric Change
In this episode of Make or Break, Mo Berkner Boyt is joined by Dr. Alexis Fink for an insightful conversation about organizational transformation, AI activation, and the critical role of systems thinking in navigating disruptive change. Together, they unpack what it really takes to lead through transformation in a way that is practical, human-centered, and sustainable. Dr. Fink shares how leaders can move beyond surface-level change efforts and instead create the conditions for real adoption by aligning data, strategy, and people across the organization. They explore: why systems thinking matters during periods of disruption how to use data more effectively to guide decisions why involving people at every level is essential for transformation to stick how to activate AI in ways that create measurable value From understanding the dynamics of change to making AI adoption more meaningful, this episode offers a clear framework for approaching transformation more strategically. If you’re leading through uncertainty, modernizing your organization, or looking for practical ways to make change work in the real world, this conversation will give you a sharper lens on what drives lasting impact. Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change: https://c2iq.io/spotify https://c2iq.io/apple https://c2iq.io/audible (https://c2iq.io/audible) https://www.youtube.com/@C2IQMakeorBreak – Follow + Connect with our guest: Dr. Alexis Fink LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexisfink/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexisfink/) Website - https://www.propellerinsight.org/ (https://www.propellerinsight.org/) Substack - https://alexisfink.substack.com/ (https://alexisfink.substack.com/)
22 Apr 2026
Hot Takes: The Surprising Reason HR’s AI Adoption is Stalling
Stacey Harris, Chief Research Officer at Sapient Insights Group joins Mo Berkner Boyt in the newest episode of Make or Break Hot Takes, powered by C2IQ. This fast fresh episode brings you the trends, challenges, and strategies for leveraging AI effectively in HR to improve outcomes and drive strategic value. Most HR leaders are missing out on the real impact of AI and overlooking strategies that could transform their workforce. Are you relying on AI just to automate routines or are you using it to genuinely improve outcomes and elevate your people? Stacey shares 28 years of data showing what works and what doesn’t in AI adoption across organizations of all sizes. Discover how to leverage AI effectively, overcome hidden barriers, and make IT and HR collaboration the key to future success.Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change:https://c2iq.io/spotifyhttps://c2iq.io/applehttps://c2iq.io/audible–Follow + Connect with our guest:Stacey Harris LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceyharris/ Website - https://sapientinsights.com/
8 Apr 2026
Future-Proofing HR: Strategies for Change and Resilience
In this episode of Make or Break, Mo Berkner Boyt is joined by Betsy Summers, a principal analyst at Forrest. Together, they delve into the transformative trends that are redefining human resources and the future of work. By sharing insights into HR's historical evolution, current disruptions, and practical frameworks, they provide HR leaders with the tools needed to navigate and lead effectively in today's volatile landscape. What to expect in this episode: The macro trends shaping the future of work The evolving role of HR from compliance to strategic partner The importance of skills like tech, data analytics, and adaptive leadership This episode highlights the importance of human-centric leadership, data-driven decision making, and adaptable skill development for thriving in a continually shifting work landscape. Whether you're an HR leader or an individual navigating change, Betsy's perspectives offer practical frameworks and heartfelt encouragement to lean into human strengths. Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change: https://c2iq.io/spotify https://c2iq.io/apple https://c2iq.io/audible (https://c2iq.io/audible) – Follow + Connect with our guest: Betsy Summers LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsyasummers/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsyasummers/) Website - https://www.forrester.com/bold/?utm_source=linkedin&utm_medium=social (https://www.forrester.com/bold/?utm_source=linkedin&utm_medium=social)
11 Mar 2026
How to Cope with Change and Disruption
In this episode of Make or Break, Mo Berkner Boyt is joined by Sondra Kiss, Managing Partner at Kissinger Group, for a grounded and practical conversation about leading through the “greatest hits” of disruption. Together, they unpack the three pillars of disruption and change in enterprises: structural change ways of working technology transformation They delve into why each of these change types triggers a different kind of fear response and provide major disruption examples. From identity disruption during reorganizations, to habit exhaustion in culture shifts, to confidence threats during AI adoption, this episode explores what leaders often overlook and how to cope with change. They also dive into what truly predicts successful adoption: whether people can see themselves succeeding on the other side of change. If you’re leading transformation in a high-stakes environment, this conversation will challenge how you think about capacity, change literacy, and the human bottlenecks that make or break execution. Follow + Connect with our guest: Sondra Kiss LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sondrakiss/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sondrakiss/) Website - https://kissingergroup.com/about/ (https://kissingergroup.com/about/)
18 Feb 2026
Why Human Connection Matters
In this episode of Make or Break, Mo Berkner Boyt is joined by Matt Poepsel, PhD, the “Godfather of Talent Optimization”, for a thoughtful conversation on why human connection has become the scarcest resource in today’s world of work. Together, they explore how modern convenience, rapid technological change, and rising pressure are quietly pulling people apart and what leaders can do to intentionally rebuild connection during disruption. From loneliness and burnout to AI-driven change and people metrics that actually matter, this episode offers a deeply human lens on leading change without losing the people along the way.The conversation also dives into how leaders measure employee engagement and why measuring it well during periods of disruption is critical. Rather than relying on outdated surveys, Matt shares insights on how to measure employee engagement metrics in ways that move as fast as change itself and provide meaningful signals about trust, resilience, and alignment.What to Expect in This Episode- Why human connection is breaking down at work- How technology and convenience quietly erode trust and belonging- The “entropy economy” and the growing cost of disconnection- Why engagement data must move faster during periods of change- How misattribution creates gaps between leaders and teams- What effective change management leadership looks like Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change:https://c2iq.io/spotifyhttps://c2iq.io/applehttps://c2iq.io/audible–Follow + Connect with our guest:Matt Poepsel, PhDLinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattpoepsel/Website - https://www.mattpoepsel.com/Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@mattpoepsel
4 Feb 2026
Hot Takes: The Messy Middle - Employee Integration in M&A
In this rapid-fire episode of Make or Break, we sit down with Steve Nunn, CEO of Intista, for a fast, candid conversation on what really makes or breaks M&A integration. We unpack why up to 70–90% of acquisitions fail, how trust and communication shape the first 90 days, and why the integration of new employees is where deals are truly won or lost.From practical insights on how to merge two companies to the often-overlooked realities of new employee integration after an acquisition, this episode explores what leaders get wrong about integration and how a more human-centered employee onboarding experience can change outcomes.Expect sharp perspectives and actionable thinking on integration when people are at the center of the employee onboarding process during M&A.Follow + Connect with our guest: Steve Nunn LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenunn7/Website - https://intista.com/Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change:https://c2iq.io/spotifyhttps://c2iq.io/applehttps://c2iq.io/audible
21 Jan 2026
Strategies to Retain Employees and Build Trust in Teams During Mergers and Acquisitions
Most mergers and acquisitions don’t fail because the strategy was flawed or the numbers didn’t add up. They fail because post-deal transitions disrupt the people critical to keeping the business running. Uncertainty spikes, roles shift, and employees start asking themselves: “Where do I fit in now?” In these moments, trust becomes the stabilizing force that determines whether people stay engaged, disengage, or leave altogether. In this episode of Make or Break, we give practical, human-centered strategies leaders can use to build and maintain trust during M&A transitions. You’ll learn how trust shows up in everyday behaviors, how to strengthen connection across teams, and how organizations can develop leaders who are equipped to guide people through change. Follow Make or Break on your favorite streaming channel to effectively manage human risk during organizational change: https://c2iq.io/spotify https://c2iq.io/apple https://c2iq.io/audible (https://c2iq.io/audible) – Follow + Connect with our guest: Klint Kendrick Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/klintkendrick/ Website - https://masteryourmerger.com/ Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5JtJfIg6B3qqBWgYI3ggQ M&A Roundtable - https://mandaroundtable.com/
8 Jan 2026
Make or Break: The Human Side of Change
Workplace change is accelerating and it’s burning everything in its path. Most change initiatives fail, costing millions, not because the strategy was wrong, but because the people side goes wrong. People make or break transformations. There’s nothing ‘soft’ about the human side of change. I’m Mo Berkner Boyt, founder of C2IQ, and I’ve seen what happens when change goes sideways. This podcast is here to help you avoid it. At Make or Break, we dig into the metrics, models, and disruption-tested frameworks that ensure people can execute strategy, deliver results, and not get burnt crispy in the process. This isn’t feel-good. It’s data. This isn’t theory. It’s what actually works. If you're leading AI and tech adoption, integrating teams post-acquisition, or rebuilding engagement after a reorg this show is for you. We’re talking to operators, advisors, and leaders who’ve delivered phenomenal outcomes by putting people at the center of transformation. Disruption is inevitable. Change failure and human fallout doesn’t have to be. Subscribe now and learn what makes or breaks change.
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
- Apple Podcasts (US)
- 5.0 / 5
- 2 ratings
- Spotify
- 5.0 / 5
- 2 ratings
Contact Make or Break
- Guest appearances
- Books guests
Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.
Host of Make or Break?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show
Podcast research with Pod Engine