For every solid theory in marketing, there's somebody saying Gen-Z don't use shops. For every effective ad, there's a Cannes winner. And for every flash of real genius, there's a LinkedIn post from a growth hacking guru.
As host, and self-appointed guardian, of Marketing Room 101, Ben Norman welcomes marketers from across the industry into a safe space to vent their frustration and confront their demons, with the chance to eliminate them forever.
Phil Cookson’s feeling special: Creative Resource director on how to win School of Thought and why insurance marketing needs writing off
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by Phil Cookson (C), co-founder of School of Thought (https://www.schoolofthought.co.uk/)- an intensive, competitive 12-week course that develops young creative talent in the north, with programmes each year in both Leeds and Manchester - and Director of Creative Resource, (https://creativeresource.co.uk/) which has been recruiting for the marketing, digital, and creative sectors for over 35 years.
In this episode, Phil and Ben discuss:
● Creepy retargeting and whether brands are going too far to try and prevent waste.
● How AI is affecting the job market and whether original thinking could be the way to survive
● Why Phil gives up 26 weeks of his year to develop young creative talent
● The gender gap in creative leadership, and how School of Thought is booking the trend in producing female Creative Directors
● How to win School of Thought and some of the most memorable moments, from the Honey Monster to Pamela Anderson
● Why insurance sector marketers have turned their back on retention, and if the industry needs disrupting (like Monzo did to banking)
● Plus the power of direct mail, a special birthday card, great dogs walks, and cassoulet with Malbec.
Connect with host Ben Norman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/normanbenjamin/)or subscribe to avoid missing new episodes of Marketing Room 101
1 Sept 2026
David Meikle in full flow: How to Buy a Gorilla author and consultant on overcoming stress and improving relationships in marketing
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by author (How to Buy a Gorilla (https://www.waterstones.com/book/how-to-buy-a-gorilla/david-meikle/9781912555314), Tuning Up (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tuning-Improving-performance-advertising-marketing/dp/1739463714)), consultant, and trainer, David Meikle (https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-meikle-6194405/), who specialises in improving client-agency relationships, and performance in marketing teams.
Across his 30 years in the marketing and advertising industries David has held top roles at Grey and Ogilvy & Mather, as well as heading up Ogilvy Russia for a four year period which saw revenue increase five fold.
Today David’s consultancy, The HTBAG Co (The How To Buy a Gorilla company) (https://www.htbag.co.uk/), specialises in helping create better client and agency relationships and brings a unique model and strategic approach to pitch management.
In this episode, David and ben discuss:
Why the modern, open plan workplace is the worst environment for creating great work.
Whether fair value exchange is possible between brands and agencies.
Why it has become unacceptable for agencies to make money, how to negotiate better, and why it’s in a brand's interest for their agency to make money
Navigating the triangle of doom between marketing, procurement, and agency
How Rory Sutherland helped coin ‘The Meikle Matrix’, and the secret to high performance and flow state
How to tackle stress in marketing teams and agencies, without reducing output
Why agency market oversaturation is a myth
The workflows that are most at risk from AI and how to stay in business
Why business shouldn’t be democratic, and why we shouldn’t try to please everyone
Why there’s no place for best practice in marketing
The problem with bad intermediaries
Plus, why the marketing world needs bigger bollocks and why David wants a pet Wookiee
Connect with host Ben Norman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/normanbenjamin/) or subscribe to avoid missing new episodes of Marketing Room 101
17 Jun 2026
Ulli Appelbaum starts with science (not why): Brand Positioning Workbook author on the science of brand association and putting it into practice
In this episode, host Ben Norman is joined by brand strategy consultant and author, Ulli Appelbaum. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ulliappelbaum/)
Having worked in the world of brand and advertising for over 30 years, in countries as far and wide as Cameroon, Hungary and the U.S.A, and in agencies as creatively renowned as Fallon, BBDO and Leo Burnett, Ulli has gained a uniquely deep and varied understanding of how brands actually grow.
Today Ulli runs brand consultancy First the Trousers (https://first-the-trousers.com/), and has, in recent years, written two of the most practical, science-backed, and evidence-based marketing books ever written – The Brand Positioning Workbook (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brand-Positioning-Workbook-How-Positionings/dp/B09RM46WFB/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=192073801371&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nTNkgs_2riCoxi_gDJGiwQjAXkgNstoGTanUXKTxS-2sjDugnVhVp8GKmynOr75x9zDYkv668MKLqDe8wVrZp0Tqo2eslRj6cA5BOOUp_v9tOE7wX_514o6t2g5hmv_IVoVI7E7I3hnXMCL4cT7jFSnkfBYQjFKPn2ypHZu-1bdnjvxtNiCWmcR8svTU1um021ZbGupcvhWmZO0QBSgTsEmTF4pJzotAvCA5Y53kOyk.i0SSeqgMezoE3I9Hc8sEMEYpd_8vJJ4015m27qDiXEs&dib_tag=se&gad_source=1&hvadid=793569955676&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9215671&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=3886874991325344984--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3886874991325344984&hvtargid=kwd-1660053958959&hydadcr=18518_2426663_3861&keywords=the+brand+positioning+workbook&mcid=9d06e1e85d1e38af98816cf4560b2350&qid=1781712642&sr=8-1-spons&aref=KltnwjM9l4&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1) and The Science of Brand Association (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Brand-Associations-Minds-Markets-ebook/dp/B0FL2TSMTM/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=187088806075&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.l4ymZTUhEUBjvD_bHnWc3AzkKm4lssiCn2uxacFkQbQaGjL23s1-BiHWmeU7pa--0D2Lo7Hs_ilVaitpZsTmig.fuKTEKd6TDfsQkjwwTsbB932_yVTi3Ri2oK8sjjBAKo&dib_tag=se&gad_source=1&hvadid=793520570336&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9215671&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=11251525112825382753--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11251525112825382753&hvtargid=kwd-2437088866753&hydadcr=18521_2426665_11333&keywords=the+science+of+brand+associations&mcid=c7d7e186be3e3301ac2ff0562b78fa1a&qid=1781712683&sr=8-1).
In this conversation, Ulli and Ben cover:
Creating a practical toolkit for brand positioning from 30 years in the industry
The science behind brand associations and the five sources of meaning for brands:
Social (and why we buy Rolex despite Casio telling the same time)
Cultural (and its overhype and overuse)
Functional (Why Duracell and WD40 work)
Emotional (and the power of nostalgia)
Symbolic (the one I forgot to ask about)
Why 95% of marketing books fail to meet scientific rigour and scrutiny
Why we should start with science, not why.
Ulli’s specific case to banish vagueness, and vague terms like ‘purpose’, ‘authentic’, ‘culture’ and ‘storytelling’.
The power of opposites: why flipping your strategy can sense check its strength
Why marketing has become more transactional and the need to bring simple creative problem solving back
The deflation of quality in marketing through a lack of proper training
Why smaller brands can’t win by copying the big brand playbooks
Plus Tuffi the elephant, finding a loop hole for Amstel beer and the decline of religion in the western world.
Connect with host Ben Norman (https://www.linkedin.com/in/normanbenjamin/) or subscribe to avoid missing new episodes of Marketing Room 101
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