Marketing UnLearned

About Marketing UnLearned

Marketing UnLearned explores the challenges the leading-edge digital marketing poses to established and received wisdom. All new initiatives, until proven, are subject to scrutiny and challenge: the ‘waddabouts’, the statements of inertia, the “why bother?”, the deprioritising questions. Within these challenges there is often a grain of truth, but in this series we’ll take the challenges head on and learn how the exemplars deliver persuasively - perhaps changing our thinking along the way. In partnership with Epsilon our first series will focus on innovation in the areas of retail media, digital advertising, CRM, and personalisation. We’ll speak with 10 expert practitioners who have moved beyond the optimised and well-know digital marketing processes. More than a simple ‘always sunny at 30,000ft’ case study, we’ll put the challenges to our guests and hear how they were overcome, how their thinking developed and learn about the ‘new state of the art’. While we may UnLearn some pieces of accepted wisdom, we’ll replace them with new, effective learning. Everyone wins with Marketing UnLearned.

Publisher

Ian Jindal

Category

business · business

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

10 Aug 2025

Latest episode

24 Mar 2026

Latest episodes

9 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   24 Mar 2026

   "Beyond Monetisation" - Alex Knapman of Halfords

   In this Marketing Un:Learned conversation, retail media specialist Alex Knapman explores what happens when “free money” ad revenue collides with the realities of customer experience, brand identity and measurement.  Drawing on hands‑on work with grocers, discounters and Halfords, Alex shows how retail media forces marketers to unlearn old distinctions between online and in‑store, between segments and audiences, and between short‑term monetisation and long‑term brand health. What you’ll learn / relearn Unlearn the idea that retail media is simply a high‑margin bolt‑on and relearn how to start from first principles: are you optimising for monetisation, customer experience, incremental sales, or a deliberate mix of the three? Unlearn the reflex that “ads ruin CX” and relearn how relevant placements and funded content can actually outperform your “organic” merchandising and education Unlearn channel‑first rollout plans and relearn identity‑first design: what does your brand stand for and what kind of ad experience coheres with that Unlearn the online/in‑store divide and relearn how loyalty data, sensors and gaze mapping can make physical space more measurable and responsive than many marketers realise Unlearn flat segmentation and relearn “audiences” as portable, privacy‑safe assets you can activate across TV, CTV and social Unlearn simplistic, siloed metrics and relearn stitched‑together measurement that links in‑aisle attention, loyalty IDs and off‑site performance. Some ideas in this podcast... 1. From “free money” to first‑principles Alex argues you have to start with the fundamental question: are you launching retail media to monetise, to improve customer experience, to drive RSV (retail sales value), or some intentional combination of all three. That answer determines everything from how you design campaigns and products, to how you reinvest margin – whether in subsidised prices or new tech that improves the customer experience at a macro level. 2. Unlearning “ads ruin CX” Consumers rarely say “more ads” when asked what will improve their shopping experience, so retail media teams can start from a defensive crouch. Alex distinguishes between intrusive, cluttered formats that get in the way and seamless placements that simply feel like better merchandising. He shares examples where the ad algorithm, powered by loyalty data, surfaces more relevant products (such as coffee pods rather than beans for a capsule‑machine user) than the standard merchandising rules. He also points to supplier‑funded educational content – such as Halfords’ how‑to videos on fitting wiper blades or changing oil – where funding improves production quality while still leaving choice firmly with the consumer. 3. Identity‑first: ads that fit who you are Not all retailers should approach retail media in the same way; your identity dictates what’s acceptable in CX terms A super‑luxury brand must be extremely careful with ad formats and placements because anything that feels “ad‑y” or cluttered is jarring and off‑brand By contrast, a budget airline or value retailer may credibly offer a proposition like “see an ad, save £5 on your flight,” and some customers will gladly trade a bit of clunkiness for lower prices The unlearning here is to stop treating retail media as a generic toolkit and instead design an ad experience that expresses your brand, not undermines it. 4. Online vs in‑store: unlearning the divide Historically, on‑site ecommerce was seen as hyper‑addressable and measurable, while in‑store activity was stuck with coarse measures like linear shelf centimetres and raw footfall Alex reframes this: stores are still one‑to‑many environments, but increasingly equipped with digital inventory such as screens that can be day‑parted and weather‑responsive – breakfast missions in the morning, heat‑wave ice cream creative in summer Loyalty programmes (Alex cites Tesco’s Clubcard penetration) close much of the gap by linking in‑store transactions back to identifiable shoppers Combined with footfall analytics and anonymised gaze mapping that turns CCTV into stick‑figure attention data, retailers can now see who walked an aisle, who looked at a message, and who then bought – even if the individual remains privacy‑protected. 5. From “segments” to portable “audiences” Retailers have long used segments to help with ranging, merchandising and store stocking – inward‑facing decisions about their own business The growth of retail media allows those segments to become audiences that can be activated in third‑party environments, from Channel 4 or ITVX to social platforms like TikTok and Instagram Examples include audiences of “bought product X in the last 90 days,” “lapsed from category Y,” or “cat owners,” all created in hashed, encrypted, GDPR‑compliant ways For a category like cat food, the value of targeting verified cat‑owning households is obvious, whereas for Mars bars or Heinz Beans the addressable universe is much broader; the economic value of the audience shifts with the category. 6. Rethinking measurement across channels Ian contrasts pixel‑level online attribution with the messier world of in‑store and off‑site media, where intention and attention are harder to infer Alex’s answer is to “stitch” data sources rather than chase a single magic metric: loyalty IDs, footfall, gaze data and off‑site campaign performance all play a part This lets teams move beyond simple “how many walked down the aisle” measures into understanding which fixtures, formats and audiences genuinely drove incremental sales and deserve more investment. It also forces marketers to unlearn the pursuit of perfect control and accept probabilistic, multi‑source truth as the working standard. Quotes “As a retailer, what’s your motivation in launching a retail media business – to monetise, to develop the customer experience, to drive incremental sales volume, or a combination of all three?” “The ads that stick out in our minds are the really intrusive ones… there are probably very seamless ads where, because it’s so seamless, it doesn’t feel as intrusive as it could do.” “There were examples of the ad algorithm surfacing more relevant content than the organic algorithm on the ecommerce website.” “If you’re a super‑luxury brand, anything that detracts from that customer experience is extremely jarring for the customer. It doesn’t feel right.” “With the growth of retail media we can now use those segments as audiences that we can plumb into third‑party platforms.” Guest bio Alex Knapman is a consultant at boutique firm ST Retail, specialising in retail media, loyalty and data.  Through ST Retail he has been seconded into leading retailers including Asda, Ocado, Aldi and Halfords, giving him a rare end‑to‑end view of how retail media plays out from nappies and Jaffa Cakes to windscreens and wiper blades.  His work spans building retail media propositions, defining audience strategies and helping teams navigate the trade‑offs between monetisation, customer experience and sales. Resources & Links Alex Knapman on LinkedIn — (https://www.linkedin.com/in/knapman/...)

2. 

   9 Feb 2026

   "Innovation never sleeps" - Karl Gibbons of SharkNinja

   In this episode of Marketing Un:Learned, Ian Jindal talks with Karl Gibbons, who leads sales strategy and analytics across Northern Europe for SharkNinja — the company behind two of the most disruptive consumer brands in small domestic appliances: Shark and Ninja. Karl brings a career built in FMCG food (most recently in butter and margarine) to a business that launches approximately 25 new products a year across 38 subcategories. The conversation explores what Karl has had to unlearn about pace, innovation cycles, brand building and channel strategy — and what he brought with him that still holds. About the Guest Karl Gibbons is Sales Strategy & Analytics Director for Northern Europe at SharkNinja, responsible for driving profitable category growth across the Shark and Ninja brands in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland. Before joining SharkNinja just over a year ago, Karl spent the majority of his career in food — most recently in the butter and margarine category — giving him a sharp perspective on the differences between true fast-moving consumer goods and the relentless innovation cycle of consumer electronics. Episode Outline & Key Topics Introducing Shark and Ninja — two brands, one innovation engine[00:00] Karl explains how Shark (famous for vacuum cleaners, now expanding into beauty and home environment) and Ninja (known for bringing the air fryer to the UK mainstream, now spanning espresso machines, ice cream makers and pizza ovens) sit as separate brands under one company. Innovation is the connective tissue — SharkNinja runs a 24/7 global design cycle across teams in Shanghai, London and Boston, so "innovation never sleeps." Consumers as brand ambassadors — and why that isn't glib[07:00] Ian pushes back on Karl's claim that consumers are SharkNinja's greatest brand ambassadors. Karl responds with the Ninja CREAMi launch: an ice cream maker that generated a wave of organic user-generated content on TikTok and Instagram within 48 hours — with virtually no paid media support. Consumers discovered capabilities the engineers hadn't anticipated, and the five-star review culture feeds directly into product iteration. Signal vs. noise — managing data across 170+ retail partners[10:00] Ian challenges the "spontaneous eruption" narrative, pointing to SharkNinja's 170+ global retail partners, multiple marketplaces and direct-to-consumer channels. Karl acknowledges the orchestration required to have the right product on the right shelf at the right time, but maintains that once that groundwork is laid, consumer advocacy genuinely drives momentum — monitored by a substantial London-based social media team operating in near-real-time. From butter to vacuum cleaners — unlearning "fast-moving"[13:30] Karl reflects on his biggest career assumption: that food — with its short shelf life and weekly repurchase — was the fastest-moving category he could work in. In reality, the consumer electronics innovation cycle moves far quicker. A pound of butter hasn't changed in 100 years; what you can buy with a plug changes constantly. The consumer's appetite for "the next big thing" in appliances was something he had been naive about. The repurchase problem — five air fryers in a student kitchen[16:00] Ian describes visiting his daughter's student house and finding five Ninja air fryers in a row. Unlike butter, which is replenished weekly, an air fryer may last years. Karl explains how SharkNinja addresses this through relentless category extension (from air fryers to coffee machines to pizza ovens) and within-category innovation (e.g., the new Crispy air fryer offering new capabilities even in a market with 80%+ penetration). The challenge for brand teams is maintaining a coherent brand identity across products that range from £150 to £500. The Nordics — why one size doesn't fit all[20:00] Karl describes the reality of managing Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland, where SharkNinja is a younger, less well-known brand. Amazon barely registers (around 1% market share) and direct-to-consumer e-commerce is less embedded than in the UK, France or Germany. This forces a different playbook: closer partnerships with dominant regional retailers like Elkjøp, using their credibility to build consumer trust. DTC sites are live in Sweden and Denmark, with Norway and Finland to follow later this year. What makes a great retail partner — the case for risk-taking[24:00] Asked to sketch the ideal retail partner, Karl's answer is pointed: willingness to take risks. Too many retailers, particularly in the UK, wait to see what competitors do, accelerating stasis. Karl calls for partners prepared to give more space to new brands, trial new categories, and experiment with pricing and promotions — even modest risks that could benefit the entire category, not just one supplier. Fleet of foot — when TikTok moves faster than range reviews[26:00] Karl identifies a structural tension: social media trends move in hours, but heritage retailers plan ranges three months in advance. His ideal partner would have the agility to bring products in for a week or a month to capitalise on a trend. Ian adds that physical retail still matters for new categories — until you've held an air fryer, you don't know whether it's flimsy or "carved from a hunk of stone." Advice to a younger Karl — and the transferable skill[29:00] Karl's advice to his younger self mirrors his advice to retailers: take more risks, and change industries sooner. The most durable skill he carried from food to electronics is the discipline of thinking from the retailer's perspective — understanding what questions you can answer for them, how you can help them, and drilling down to make the partnership genuinely useful. He notes the food industry does this very well; SharkNinja is still learning to do it as effectively across the Nordics. What's next — coffee in the Nordics[32:00] Karl's most exciting current project: launching the Ninja coffee and espresso category across the Nordic markets — understanding how to get the products onto retailer shelves and into the hands of famously particular Nordic coffee drinkers. Key Insights & Quotes "We at SharkNinja don't ever want to be a 'me too' or a copycat. Whenever we innovate and bring something to market, we want to do it either better or differently or in a more consumer-focused approach." "A pound of butter 100 years ago is probably pretty similar to what you might get nowadays. What you can buy with a plug nowadays is probably greatly different." "99% of that user-generated content was not paid or bought by us. It was our actual consumers seeing the product, seeing the innovation, and just putting interesting recipes or things the machine could do." "I would give anyone the same advice I was giving the retailers: be prepared to take more of a risk." "Far too many retailers are just constantly waiting to see what the other person does. That for me just brings or speeds up the stasis." Resources & Links SharkNinja — (https://www.sh...)

3. 

   4 Feb 2026

   "AI, Gamification, and the future of Loyalty" - Richard Potter, Microsoft, and Mrinalini Chowdhary, Epsilon

   Changing the Game - AI, Gamification & the Future of Loyalty In this episode of Marketing Un:Learned, Ian Jindal talks with Richard Potter, Director of Digital Strategy at Microsoft, and Mrinalini Chowdhary, Director of Strategy and Insights at Epsilon, about unlearning the outdated transactional view of loyalty programmes and rebuilding them around emotional engagement, permissioned data, and AI-driven personalization. From psychological drivers to agentic commerce, Richard and Mrinalini explore how gamification creates engagement loops and habits beyond the checkout, why loyalty is the permission system that unlocks responsible AI, and what empathy, measurement, and focus mean for leaders redesigning loyalty in 2026. Key Topics & Timestamps Introductions: From Banking to Loyalty, Engineering to Boardrooms Mrinalini introduces her journey from banking through startups into loyalty strategy at Epsilon, bringing 15 years of experience in strategy consulting, marketing, and product management. Richard outlines his hybrid role as engineer and business strategist, translating technology shifts into boardroom value for retail and consumer goods clients at Microsoft. 02:50 - What Is "Digital" When Everything Is Digital? Richard explains that his "digital" title reflects the customer challenge: helping organisations understand what digital means in their operations. The real interest lies at the intersection of ones and zeros with human dynamics - whether in employees or consumers - and how digital experiences mobilise emotional responses while being rationally interpreted by systems. 07:30 - 10:50  -  Redefining Loyalty: Beyond Transactional Spam Mrinalini reframes loyalty as shifting from purely transactional mechanics (sign up, purchase, get points) to emotional engagement. Modern loyalty must be dynamic and adaptive, creating engagement loops through sequential actions that build habits and keep consumers thinking about the brand between purchases, not just at checkout. 10:50 - 13:40  -  Psychological Drivers: Purpose, Delight, Empowerment & Loss Aversion Mrinalini unpacks the core psychological drivers that differentiate effective gamified loyalty: Purpose  -  Clear ultimate aims communicated through missions, tiers, and progress bars (both mechanics and visuals) Delight  -  Surprise, instant feedback, and gratification through pop-ups and visual rewards Empowerment  -  Giving consumers choice (e.g., select your birthday gift) Loss aversion  -  Streaks, expiring points, time-limited challenges Scarcity  -  Exclusive VIP-tier benefits Social connection  -  Group challenges, quests, leaderboards, and competitive elements These drivers are individualised - what motivates one consumer differs from another. 13:40 - 16:50  -  From Passive Pages to Active Engagement Loops Ian references Tesco Media’s co-branded mechanic with Florian Clemens: instead of blanket discounts, customers choose 10 products they haven’t bought recently for a “game card,” then earn rewards by organically purchasing them over several weeks. The customer isn’t bribed - they’re playing, and brands fund the prize pool. This exemplifies the shift from passive loyalty pages to dynamic, habit-forming engagement. 16:50 - 19:50  -  The Rational Engine: AI Accelerates Experimentation Richard frames loyalty as an inherently irrational, emotional human contract, but one that technology must solve rationally. Algorithms optimise contract dynamics on both sides of the exchange, but trust is fragile. The step-change with foundational models and machine learning is exponential horsepower: marketers can introduce new mechanics, test, fail, and iterate faster and cheaper than ever before. Experimentation is both accelerating and becoming more economical. 19:50 - 24:50  -  Agentic AI: When the Customer’s AI Talks to Your AI Ian raises the strategic challenge: consumers now wield agentic AI that can cut through emotional loyalty and gamification to demand “best deal now.” The retailer’s advantage - massive data, sophisticated algorithms - is now matched by AI in the customer’s hands. Richard acknowledges the compression and hiding of the traditional contact period (website navigation, search indexing, abandoned baskets). Boardrooms are asking how to redeploy capital previously locked in telemetry, armies of analysts, and A/B testing. But AI is both challenge and solution: rational engines can anticipate agentic commerce and help enlightened boards reorient resources. The key is robust, permissioned data. 24:50 - 28:10  -  Gamified Loyalty as the Permission System for AI Mrinalini describes gamified loyalty as linking campaigns in a cumulative string, tapping into “micro moments” that feel achievable and generate permission-based data. This data becomes a powerhouse fuelling all marketing channels - ROI extends far beyond incremental loyalty revenue into areas impossible to quantify. Richard underscores this point: loyalty is the permission system for deploying AI responsibly. The virtuous contract transacting explicit value between brand, retailer, and consumer is the foundation for everything organisations want to do with data. Without robust, trust-based permission, AI ambitions collapse. 28:10 - 31:40  -  Hiring the New Loyalty Leader: Growth Mindset, Consumer Intimacy & Data Mastery Ian asks for the top three attributes of tomorrow’s loyalty marketing director. Richard’s picks: 1. Growth mindset  -  You are at the frontier, redefining this work for humanity (privilege, not terror) 2. Consumer intimacy  -  Never forget it’s all about your consumer; deep knowledge remains relevant 3. Data mastery  -  Don’t obsess over which foundational model; your competitive advantage is connecting your data to all that horsepower Mrinalini’s picks: 1. Empathy  -  Understand what the customer wants, not just what the client wants (“What am I going to get?” vs “What is the customer going to get?”) 2. Financial & cross-functional knowledge  -  The loyalty director manages a mini-division: marketing, finance, UX, growth strategy 3. Growth mindset (echoing Richard)  -  Essential to tap into everything 31:40 - 35:30  -  One Phrase of Advice for 2026 Loyalty Restarters Ian asks for a single piece of counsel. Richard: Measure everything. Infuse telemetry into everything because you are inventing all the time. Measure, learn, iterate. Mrinalini:

4. 

   4 Feb 2026

   "Breaking the 'newness' paradigm" - with Luke Forshaw of Backmarket

   In this episode of Marketing Un:Learned, Ian Jindal talks with Luke Forshaw about unlearning the “new is best” dogma in consumer electronics and building a mainstream appetite for refurbished tech. From reframing second-hand as “renewed” to tackling e-waste, planned obsolescence and trust frictions, Luke shares how Back Market is turning circularity into an everyday choice rather than a niche crusade. Drawing on his years working on Apple at Media Arts Lab and in entertainment and finance brands, he explains how social, creators and physical retail experiments are helping to normalise refurbished devices across categories—from iPhones and laptops to coffee machines, pizza ovens and retro consoles. About the Guest Luke Forshaw is Head of Marketing for Back Market in the UK, responsible for brand, performance and customer growth in one of the company’s newer but fast-developing markets. Back Market is a French-founded marketplace that sells refurbished tech, aiming to make “renewed” devices safer, easier and more affordable to buy while extending product lifecycles and cutting e-waste. Before joining Back Market three years ago, Luke spent around seven years at Apple’s dedicated agency Media Arts Lab and has held marketing and media roles at Universal, Aviva, Beats, Red Bull and Vice. He originally studied English with ambitions to be a writer, discovering marketing through student work with Red Bull and Vice and staying with the discipline after graduating in 2010. Episode Outline & Key Topics The mission: making renewed tech normal, not niche Back Market’s model and ambitions Back Market positions itself as the world’s largest marketplace for refurbished devices, focused on prolonging the life of tech products and reducing climate impact from electronics waste. Luke unpacks three core pillars: sustainability (building a robust circular economy), quality (raising standards for reliability and experience in refurbished electronics) and accessibility (closing the digital divide by making high-end devices more affordable). Beyond smartphones: from iPhones to air fryers and pizza ovens While a majority of Back Market’s global purchases sit in smartphones (with iPhones leading in the UK), Luke explains why the business is pushing into laptops, tablets, kitchen appliances and “obscure” models like Ooni pizza ovens and Sage coffee machines. Wherever they add a new category, they see demand from consumers who want both sharper prices and more sustainable options, so the team is actively opening new lines and building demand around them. Unlearning “new is best” in consumer tech Challenging the upgrade treadmill and “vintage tech” Ian and Luke explore how decades of marketing have equated progress and status with owning the latest device, and why that logic is breaking down. Luke argues that innovation deltas in smartphones and laptops are now often marginal for everyday use, price points are increasingly prohibitive, and many consumers are simply asking: “If what I’ve got works, why upgrade?” They also discuss the rise of “retro tech” on Back Market—from older iPhones and iPods to Sega Mega Drives—which has become one of the fastest-growing and most frequently sold-out subcategories, fuelled by nostalgia and a desire to switch off from always-on connectivity. Planned obsolescence, forced upgrades and “the obsolete computer” Luke describes Back Market’s more activist stance on parts of the tech industry it sees as unethical—from extraction and production through to marketing and planned obsolescence. He shares a campaign built around Windows 10’s end-of-support, where the team took an “obsolete” computer, deliberately broke it and then revived it with an alternative OS package to show students and everyday users they didn’t need to buy a new laptop just because software support had ended. The broader goal is to keep devices in circulation longer—through cleaning, optimisation and workarounds to forced obsolescence—whether or not the user ultimately buys from Back Market. Trust frictions: from “pub seller” worries to quality guarantees Defining “refurbished” versus “used” and “second-hand” Luke talks through research Back Market has done across its markets to understand both motivations for buying refurbished tech and the perceived barriers. In the UK, most people say they know what “refurbished” means, but when probed they often lump together buying from a friend in the pub, a stranger on Facebook Marketplace and purchasing via a professional marketplace. Luke outlines how Back Market works with professional refurbishers who test and repair devices to “good as new” thresholds and backs that with warranties, free shipping and returns, and 30-day return windows—protections you do not get from casual peer-to-peer sellers. Educating without boring: creators, partners and timing Because quality messaging can be dry, Back Market leans on trusted voices—creators, partners and seller relationships—to “lift the curtain” on what refurbishment actually involves. Luke stresses that this is a long-term, segmented education job: if they tried to tell everyone everything at once, consumers would either drown in information or switch off, so the team focuses on who most needs reassurance and at which moment in their journey to address fears about devices being stolen, broken or uncovered. Marketing unlearned: social, creators and circular behaviours How social and creator strategy has changed From a marketer’s perspective, Luke says the biggest change in his time at Back Market has been how social platforms and their algorithms have reshaped brand activity. The team used to run relatively disconnected upper-funnel education, quality reassurance and price-based assets across paid social; now they aim for a cleaner, more uniform thread in creative and talent, which is especially important when you are trying to signal quality and trust. Instead of “cocaine marketing” with one-off mega-influencers, Back Market is building ambassador relationships where the same creators show up repeatedly, mixing organic and paid content so their audiences see consistency as well as reach. Creators are given more control over format, captions and hooks, because they understand how platform algorithms and keywords are shifting, and Back Market positions itself as the enabler rather than the script-writer. Retention without fuelling overconsumption Because Back Market’s mission is to fight e-waste and overconsumption, standard “it’s time to upgrade” CRM plays would contradict the brand. Luke explains that while they will follow up purchases with sensible prompts—trade-in offers, accessories, or adjacent category ideas for people clearly in a given ecosystem—they are equally likely to send service-oriented content, such as videos on properly cleaning a phone or laptop recorded with an ex-Apple Genius in Back Market’s lab. The aim is to keep the brand top of mind and positive while encouraging longer device lifespans, rather than pushing annual replacement cycles. Customers, data and cross-category insight Even in a relatively young market like the UK, Back Market is learning from device and category combinations—such as buyers of premium coffee machines and vacuum cleaners—about tastes and likely appetite for “nice-to-have” items like pizza ovens. At the same time, Luke notes that many buyers...

5. 

   26 Jan 2026

   "The win-win-win" - Florian Clemens on rethinking retail media at Tesco

   In this episode of Marketing Un:Learned, Ian Jindal (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianjindal) welcomes back Florian Clemens (https://www.linkedin.com/in/florianclemens/), who leads strategy, proposition and measurement for Tesco Media and Network. Following his appearance on RetailCraft, Florian returns to unpack four core assumptions that retail media practitioners need to challenge—and to share what he has learned by testing, experimenting, and building one of the UK's most sophisticated omnichannel retail media platforms on top of Tesco's 24 million Clubcard customer base. About the Guest Florian Clemens leads strategy, proposition, and measurement at Tesco Media and Network, where he drives a multi-year growth strategy, competitive positioning for the brand, and performance budgets, as well as client-facing measurement frameworks. He has been working in retail media since 2014, when he joined Amazon Ads and built the global accounts team. Before entering retail media, he served as a brand manager at P&G and Danone, providing him with a unique perspective from both sides of the purchase order. Episode Outline & Key Topics Does advertising make the retail experience worse?[03:35] Florian challenges the assumption that advertising is an intrusion that shoppers must endure. He introduces Tesco's "win-win-win" framework—creating value for the shopper, the advertiser and the retailer simultaneously. Examples include Cadbury Christmas grottoes outside stores (physical, experiential activations that delight families while delivering extended brand engagement), Moretti sponsoring Italian recipes on Tesco Real Food (where surveys showed improved shopper experience and brand equity lift), and research showing two-thirds of shoppers find Disney+ ads at the snacking aisle completely relevant and normal. Is advertising something that shoppers passively suffer?[13:52] Moving beyond the idea that advertising is a cognitive overhead, Florian explains Tesco's Clubcard Challenges—a gamified loyalty programme where shoppers select up to 10 brands they've bought before, set personalised spend milestones over six weeks, and earn escalating Clubcard points. Shoppers are in control, advertisers only pay when customers hit spend thresholds, and the mechanic blends performance, loyalty and engagement in a transparent, shopper-first way. Is relevance the most important factor?[21:35] Florian's counterintuitive argument: "100% relevance equals 0% incrementality." While search results must be relevant (someone searching for Gillette razors expects Gillette results), pure relevance risks becoming a self-fulfilling loop with no room for inspiration, discovery or brand building. Tesco has introduced "conquesting" (bidding on competitor brand terms with visually separate banner ads), audience targeting based on lifetime behaviour rather than in-session intent, and research into when and where to inject inspiration without degrading experience—balancing relevance with incrementality on both an X and Y axis. Is it all about monetisation?[31:16] Florian introduces "Smart Stock Audiences"—a Unilever co-test where Tesco suppresses ads for categories shoppers have just purchased (e.g., if you bought mayonnaise last weekend, you won't see Hellmann's ads this week). This prioritises shopper experience and advertiser efficiency over maximum ad serving, using Dunnhumby's 30 years of predictive data science to create audiences around high-propensity trialists, future decliners and recently stocked households—all processed in aggregate to remain 100% privacy-safe. Key Insights & Quotes "If someone searches for Gillette shaving blades and gets an ad for Gillette shaving blades and buys the Gillette shaving blades, what have we done here? It's amazing ROAS, but not really ROI." "Is relevance and inspiration not the opposing sides of a continuum, but actually an x-axis and a y-axis?" "There might be some times when it's better not to serve an ad… if they've just bought a big jar of mayonnaise this weekend, this might not be the time to advertise more mayonnaise." "It's called relevance, not relevancy. I don't know how some people keep calling it that." Florian and Ian also explore the strategic planning process behind Tesco's omnichannel campaigns, how the team pitches for advertiser budgets alongside major UK media platforms, the role of A/B testing and shopper surveys in balancing monetisation with experience, and how Clubcard's scale and Dunnhumby's data science enable sophisticated audience strategies that work in aggregate without compromising individual privacy. Resources & Links Tesco Media and Network - https://www.dunnhumby.com/tesco-media-insight-platform/ RetailCraft podcast - Florian's previous episode (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/retailcraft-60-win-win-win-in-conversation-with/id1418542382?i=1000734859513) Florian on Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/florianclemens/ Ian Jindal on Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianjindal Epsilon on Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/company/epsilon/ ———————— About Marketing Un:Learned Marketing Un:Learned explores the challenges that leading-edge digital marketing poses to established and received wisdom. All new initiatives face scrutiny—the "what-abouts," statements of inertia, and deprioritising questions. In this series, we take those challenges head-on and learn how exemplars deliver persuasively, perhaps changing our thinking along the way. In partnership with Epsilon, we focus on innovation in retail media, digital advertising, CRM and personalisation, speaking with expert practitioners who have moved beyond optimised, well-known processes.

6. 

   26 Jan 2026

   "Bridging heritage and growth" - with Raine Peake of Crew Clothing

   In this episode, Ian Jindal (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianjindal) talks with Raine Peake (https://www.linkedin.com/in/raine-peake-19954a11/), Group Digital Director at Crew Clothing Company, about how a portfolio of British heritage brands is adapting to a fast-changing digital and retail environment. The discussion covers what needs to be unlearned about discounting, channels, content and customer value, and what a more modern, test-and-learn approach looks like in practice. Raine Peake is Group Digital Director at Crew Clothing Company (https://www.crewclothing.co.uk/), responsible for digital strategy, e-commerce trading, digital marketing and optimisation across Crew Clothing, Ben Sherman (https://www.bensherman.co.uk/), Saltrock (https://www.saltrock.com/) and Pringle of Scotland (https://pringlescotland.com/). Her experience spans Farfetch (through to IPO), New Look, Mint Velvet and Jigsaw, grounded in an early merchandising career in bricks-and-mortar retail. ———————— Chapters / Topics 00:00 – Introductions, Role and Brand Portfolio Raine, who outlines her role as Group Digital Director and the brands in the portfolio: Crew Clothing: a heritage British coastal lifestyle brand with over 100 UK stores and an online presence. Saltrock: surfing heritage brand with around 70 stores, mainly in the South West. Ben Sherman: long-established British menswear brand rooted in shirt-making and youth culture. Pringle of Scotland: Scottish knitwear brand with over 200 years of history, known for cashmere and argyle. Raine explains how each brand maintains its own identity while benefiting from shared learnings and capabilities at the group level. 02:40 – Career Path and Farfetch Influence Raine talks through her route to Crew: New Look, Mint Velvet, Jigsaw and especially Farfetch through IPO, plus her beginnings in merchandising with pen-and-ledger retail. This mix of commercial and tech-led environment informs her approach to digital and marketing today, with a bias to experimentation and analytics. 04:45 – Heritage Brands in a Modern Age The conversation turns to what it means to work with genuine heritage brands versus "fake heritage", and why heritage alone isn't enough. Crew and the group have shifted from assuming customers know their story to explicitly telling it: focusing on origins in Salcombe, coastal and sporting roots, and material and construction details of core products. ———————— Brand Storytelling and Authenticity (Approx. 09:10) Raine describes how the portfolio has moved to much more explicit brand storytelling online. That includes: Highlighting core categories (men's half-zips, polos, women's knitwear) and explaining why their version is worth choosing. Using consistent, always-on brand-led content, on the basis that new customers are seeing it for the first time. Connecting digital communications with sponsorships (LTA, Henley, England Rugby's Red Roses) and Crew's coastal/sport positioning. With Pringle of Scotland, the group is at an earlier stage, exploring how to retell a long heritage story and link Scottish manufacturing and historic prestige with contemporary relevance and accessibility. ———————— Testing and Channels 05:55 – Testing by Region: Meta, TikTok, YouTube Raine explains splitting the UK into four regions with broadly similar population and digital revenue to test different mid- and upper-funnel strategies with Nest Commerce across Meta, TikTok and YouTube. All areas with additional top-of-funnel spend outperformed a control, validating the approach. 08:10 – Content Volume and "Greedy" Platforms To support this, the team had to roughly double content output, from basic sales assets to influencer-led and brand storytelling videos. Raine notes that platforms are "greedy", and having more creative variants in play generally increases performance opportunities. 09:45 – YouTube and Connected TV Discovery The tests showed YouTube delivering the clearest uplift, with statistically significant gains over other channels. A key insight was that their mainly 35+ audience overindexed on watching YouTube on Connected TV rather than on laptops or mobile devices, aligning with broader shifts in TV-screen video consumption and shoppable CTV. ———————— Managing Multiple Heritage Brands (Approx. 11:20–13:00) Raine explains how the group keeps Crew, Saltrock, Ben Sherman and Pringle distinct: Separate teams and locations (e.g. Ben Sherman marketing in Kingston and product in Leeds; Saltrock centred in the South West surf community). Expectation that teams "live" the brand (Saltrock staff surf; Crew leans into coastal and sporting lifestyles). Avoiding visual and tonal "bleed" between brands while sharing what works operationally or strategically. ———————— Gamification and Operations (Approx. 17:00) Raine draws on her time at Jigsaw to describe how to gamify ship-from-store fulfilment. Features include: Speed-to-fulfil metrics and leaderboards. Order acceptance/decline race dynamics. Clear timelines to match rising delivery expectations. She emphasises that gamification must be paired with tangible rewards such as store bonuses; otherwise, it risks being perceived as added pressure rather than engagement. ———————— Promotions, Black Friday and "Fake Friday" 20:30–21:30 – "Fake Friday" and Black Friday Setup Raine explains how "Fake Friday" (the Friday before Black Friday, when traffic spikes) acts as a natural live test. Crew leaned into this with lower-level discounts and archive sale emails, gaining insight into messaging and customer responsiveness ahead of the main event. 21:30 – Black Friday: Removing the Numbers In Black Friday week, a complex mix of 30%/40% discounts underperformed due to heavy competition, noisy messaging, and customer confusion. The team then: Removed percentage figures from subject lines and selected ads. Switched to more verbal phrasing, such as "Best sale ever" and "half price" rather than "50% off". Built on earlier "no percentage" archive sale tests from Fake Friday. This change improved engagement and delivered a strong Black Friday performance, illustrating that messaging clarity and distinctiveness can outperform marginally higher or more explicit discounts in a crowded market. ———————— Customer Value and Segmentation (Approx. 24:20–25:10) Raine outlines a shift from pure monetary VIP segmentation towards frequency-based tiers. Key points: A customer spending £100 across four orders is treated as a higher priority than a single £100-orde...

7. 

   11 Aug 2025

   "Omnichannel Retail Media" - with John Lewis Partners' Jemma Haley and Kaitlin Craig

   In this episode of Marketing Unlearned, we dive into the transformative world of digital marketing strategies with a focus on retail media at John Lewis. Join Ian Jindal as he converses with Jemms, Kaitlin  and Vic, who share their insights on evolving retail media capabilities, the importance of a win-win-win approach, and the challenges of integrating new technologies. Discover how John Lewis is leading the charge in digital performance marketing and what it means for the future of retail media. Tune in for an engaging discussion on innovation, strategy, and the exciting opportunities in the retail media landscape. Who, what, where? - Jemma Haley (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jemma-haley-11b6b416/), Retail Media Business & Proposition Strategy at The John Lewis Partnership - Kaitlin Craig (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaitlin-craig-9a5a7b150/), Retail Media Proposition Manager (Digital Channels) at John Lewis and Waitrose - Victoria Peopall (https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoria-peopall-22518b179/), Client Success Director, Epsilon Retail Media - Ian Jindal (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianjindal/), Founder at RetailX - RetailX (research and executive network at www.retailx.net; events and podcasting at www.retailx.events) - Epsilon - www.epsilon.com - Media partner, InternetRetailing, at www.internetretailing.net

8. 

   11 Aug 2025

   “Insights vs ROAS” - Alice Anson, Nectar

   Ian Jindal discusses the evolution of retail media with Alice Anson, Director of Digital (Retail) Media for Nectar 360 and Leila Sheridan, Enterprise Sales Director, Epsilon. Alice explains Nectar 360's role within the Sainsbury's Group, leveraging first-party data from 23 million Nectar users for targeted campaigns. She highlights the increasing interactivity and data capture from in-store digital touchpoints such as interactive screens and scan-as-you-shop technology. This episode also focuses on the limitations of return on advertising spend (ROAS) as a sole metric for retail media success, advocating instead for measures like incrementality, category growth, and a more full-funnel thinking approach that connects online and offline customer journeys and accounts for long-term brand building and customer loyalty, with a nod to how AI might enhance future measurement and strategy.

9. 

   10 Aug 2025

   Intro to Marketing Unlearned with Epsilon

   Epsilon's Leila Sheridan, Enterprise Sales Director, and Ben Foulkes, VP Digital, join Ian Jindal to launch a new podcast series Marketing Unlearned. The hosts aim to challenge existing notions in digital marketing and retail media, exploring how rapid changes in technology and process are impacting the sector. They discuss topics such as metrics like ROAS, whether retail media applies to B2B, pricing strategies, the future of TV advertising, and the effectiveness of retail media for brands, inviting guest experts to provide insights and "unpick" these complex areas.

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