Mutuality Matters

About Mutuality Matters

Women, Men, Mutuality, and the Bible CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast is part of CBE International’s online library of free resources! Hosts of CBE’s Mutuality Matters team offer weekly conversations with leaders, pastors, authors, scholars, activists, and humanitarians on women, men, shared leadership, and Scripture. CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality) advances the gospel by equipping women and men of all cultures, races, and classes to lead and serve as equals. Founded in 1989, CBE has supporters and ministry partners in over 100 denominations and 65 countries, and offers annual conferences, adult and youth curricula, a curated bookstore, multi-media resources, award-winning publications, and a blog. Learn more at cbeinternational.org.

Publisher

CBE International

Category

religion & spirituality

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

5 Nov 2021

Latest episode

24 Apr 2026

Latest episodes

4 of 147 episodes have a transcript.

1. 

   24 Apr 2026TRANSCRIPT

   Holiness, Women, and the Church with Carla Sunberg

   Host Carla Sunberg explores the sociology of Scripture, presenting biblical womanhood and manhood as Gospel partners, not adversaries.

2. 

   18 Mar 2026TRANSCRIPT

   From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Conversation About Women in Church Leadership with Dr. Preston Sprinkle

   On this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Dr. Preston Sprinkle to discuss his new book, "From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership." A deeply committed Christian, husband, and father, Preston Sprinkle said his career has focused on serving the church as a scholar. As such, he approaches questions concerning faith and life through a deep dive exegetical analysis of the related biblical passages and related historical contexts. For many years, as a complementarian, Preston read the key passages (1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Corinthians 14:34–36, and Ephesians 5:21–33) at face value—through a plain reading of the text which, seemingly, supports male leadership in church and the home. Yet, over time, he noticed how the Greek syntax in these passages was complex. Attending more carefully, he began to focus on single words in the text like “silent.” This practice was quite fruitful in helping him realize how women were not silent in Scripture contra 1 Corinthians 14:34–36. This seeming inconsistency evoked questions around what NT women were talking about. Clearly, they had a voice. In fact, leading Bible women were far from silent. God called and gifted women to speak as prophets, judges, warriors, and diplomats. Women were Christ’s disciples, and women served beside Paul as deacons, apostles, church planters, and his coworkers. Romans 16 abounds with the voices of women, slaves, and non-Jews—aligning with the welcome of women as Gospel agents (Gal. 3:28). Stunningly, women’s voices were heard in Corinth, as they prayed and prophesied in the church (1 Cor. 11:5), raising questions about the meaning of 1 Corinthians 14:34–36. Other passages in 1 Corinthians, such as 1 Corinthians 7:4-5, 1 Corinthians 11:7, and 1 Corinthians 11, challenged Preston as a complementarian because: Wives and husbands have authority over each other’s bodies: 1 Cor. 7:4–5 Women prayed and prophesied: 1 Cor. 11:5. Women “… have authority over her own head, because of the angels:” 1 Cor. 11:10. Woman and man are interdependent: 1 Cor. 11:11–12. Preston cited as a helpful resource, Gregory Dawe’s works on head metaphors in Ephesians, The Body in Question: Metaphor and Meaning in the Interpretation of Ephesians 5:21–33 (Biblical Interpretation Series, 30) Turning to 1 Timothy 2:11–12, Preston points to the extreme use of authority (authentein) Paul evokes in this passage that mirrors the unilateral, domineering authority of slave owners over their slaves as it demeaned slaves ontologically as lesser humans for a lesser purpose. It was a devaluation Jesus challenged in Matthew 20:25–28: “Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Summing it up, Preston suggests that three complex, poorly translated texts cannot overturn the “wide ocean of women leaders in Scripture.” Which is why he cautions against silencing women based on a plain reading of the Bible. Add to this the many women scholars he admired even before becoming an egalitarian. Women like Drs. Linda Belleville Sandra Ritcher, Lynn Cohick, Cynthia Westfall, and others are deeply regarded and highly respected throughout the Christian world. We add Preston to the list of egalitarian scholars and leaders, thanking him for his very insightful work throughout this podcast and in his newest book, From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership, available in CBE’s bookstore. Enjoy! 00:56 Welcome and Guest Intro 02:59 Preston’s Journey Shift 04:56 Deep Dive Research Process 06:31 Key Textual Turning Points 11

3. 

   27 Feb 2026TRANSCRIPT

   After the Harm: Wrestling Evil and Reclaiming Women’s Voices in Scripture with Rev. Dr. Ingrid Faro (Women and Words)

   On this episode of Mutuality Matters: Women and Words, Host Dr. Mimi Haddad interviewed Rev. Dr. Ingrid Faro. Ingrid described her challenging childhood and young married life as one of abuse, both psychologically and physically. Her early church experience was equally difficult, as women were to be seen but not heard. In her family of origins, she felt invisible and unimportant. She was terrified of her mother and had no real relationship with her dad. Ingrid was struggling to figure out who she is and even wondered if it was safe to think her thoughts. She also wanted out of the church because, as Ingrid describes, she so wanted God to be fair, but life didn’t seem to be fair. Ingrid shared how her first husband (a preacher and NT scholar) was unfaithful to her. He was also violent and broke her nose, landing her in the ER, where she told the attending doctors that she had an “accident,” but they were unconvinced. These and other experiences led to her struggle with the question of “theodicy,” whether God is just and good. Ingrid wondered if she could ever really trust God. This led to an exploration of God theologically. She became acquainted with and greatly admires the scholarship of the OT scholar Dr. Abraham Joshua Heschel. A passion for the OT was part of her journey. Her second husband nurtured honest, even blunt communication, or as Brené Brown says, “clarity is kindness.” As Ingrid studied Scripture, she encountered many bold women who henceforward served as her role models! In them she found a sense of release, or as she said, “I didn’t know the weight that was on my shoulders until it was lifted off me.” Ingrid began to see God’s clear anointing on women which began with the Apostle Paul. Ingrid began to sense a calling to an academic study of Scripture, which gave her pause. She was given opportunities to say what was on her heart but felt conflicted. Then she asked herself, “Can I stand before God and say, ‘I can’t.’” She had to distinguish between a fear of people and a fear of God. Yet the biblical “texts of terror” that appeared to silence women were very limited compared the many, many texts that welcomed their wisdom, voice and leadership. Consider Paul’s texts that seem to silence women (1 Cor. 14:34–36, 1 Tim. 2:11–15, Eph. 5:22&FF) compared to the many women Paul celebrates as co-leaders with him in preaching the gospel and leading churches, like those cited in Romans 16. More recently, Ingrid has considered the challenge of abuse in the church one of the most pressing challenges the church must address. She sometimes feels that the church is one of the most abusive places women encounter. Yet this was certainly an issue noted in Genesis 2. Here Ingrid notes the challenge of Bible translation as too often Genesis 2:18 is translated “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” The Hebrew word for “helper,” is ezer, which means “a strong rescue,” as Dave Freedman notes. “Helper” fails to describe the true meaning of ezer. Ingrid also points to the work of Katharine Bushnell who redeems Eve by observing that she was the first person to have faith and hope in God’s promises. She also points to the following authors who have inspired her own scholarship and faith: Karen Swallow Prior, Carol L. Meyers, Edith Deen, Sandra Ritcher, Cynthia Long Westfall, and also biblical models like Abraham and Sarah.  For many years, Ingrid taught OT and has recently published the book, Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation. Ingrid will lead a keynote and workshop at CBE’s conference this summer in Chicago, where she will also receive CBE’s Lifetime Achievement Award. Guest Bio: Bio: Revd. Dr. Ingrid Faro is an ordained minister and currently serves as interim president and professor of Old Testament at Northern Seminary in Chicago. She previously served as dean of academic affairs, dean of theology at the Scandinavia

Inside a recent episode

Holiness, Women, and the Church with Carla Sunberg

Published 24 Apr 2026 · Transcript excerpt

[…] And so she went around to all the holiness denominations and went to their clergy development leaders and said, Hey, we're not going to have any women clergy left unless we do something intentional. And so she created Wesleyan holiness, women clergy. But out of that, for example, in our denomination, we created our own women clergy council, which had never existed before, that existed to speak into this on our denomination level. So while she created this multi -denominational group, many of our denominations then began to create our own subgroups that began to promote women clergy across our own denominations. […]

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

50 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

17 ratings

Podcast Authority Score: 57 / 100

A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.

Quality

78

Social presence

0

YouTube

0

Engagement

90

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Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.

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