Off the Clock is the podcast for lawyers and law firm owners ready to stop surviving and start thriving. Hosted by Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper, co-creators of Advos Pro, each episode explores strategies for building practices that are profitable, client-focused, and designed around the lawyer’s life—not just their clients’ needs. Listeners will discover bold steps to create freedom, fulfillment, and long-term success without relying on the outdated billable hour model.
Personal Branding and Thought Leadership for Lawyers
In this episode, Gwen and Whitney speak with lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, about how lawyers can create a law practice that truly supports their life. Steve shares practical strategies for qualifying clients, saying “no” with confidence, and focusing on meaningful, profitable work. He also highlights the importance of community, mindset, and becoming a student of both the practice and business of law.
5 Dec 2025
How to Build a Client-Attracting Law Practice with Lawyer Coach, Steve Fretzin
In this episode, Steve Fretzin shares how lawyers can stop chasing clients and start building authentic, profitable relationships through his “Sales-Free Selling” approach.
He explains how to create a predictable business development process, find your niche, and gain control of your legal career—all without feeling like a salesperson.
If you’ve ever felt stuck between wanting more business and hating the idea of “selling,” this conversation will show you how to shift your mindset, refine your focus, and build a law practice that works for you.
21 Nov 2025
Building Rainmakers — How Lawyers Can Master Business Development with Steve Fretzin
Gwen and Whitney sit down with business development coach Steve Fretzin to explore how lawyers can grow their practices without “selling.” Steve shares how he helps attorneys build systems for client growth, overcome ego barriers, and turn consistency into success. He also shares stories of lawyers who doubled their books of business through simple, repeatable strategies.
7 Nov 2025
Price, Pitch, Profit: Making Deliverables-Based Pricing Work
In this episode, Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper dive into the concept of deliverables-based pricing and why moving away from the billable hour can transform a law practice. They share their journey of trial and error with flat fees and how they developed a dynamic, client-focused pricing model that prioritizes value over time spent.
24 Oct 2025
From Generalist to Go-To: The Power of Specializing
In this episode, Gwen Griggs dives into the challenges and opportunities lawyers face when deciding whether to operate as generalists or specialize in a niche. Gwen explores how focusing on ideal clients, niching down, and building domain expertise can increase profitability, improve client experience, and create a more sustainable, enjoyable law practice.
14 Oct 2025
Spoiler Alert: You Law Practice is a Business
In this episode of Off the Clock, co-hosts Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper dive into the essential mindset shift every lawyer needs: treating your law practice as a business. They explore why profitability matters, how to apply proven business principles, and the importance of CEO time for lawyers. From debunking the stigma around law firm profits to leveraging tools like Profit First and lean startup methods, Gwen and Whitney share actionable strategies to build a law practice that is sustainable, profitable, and fulfilling.
26 Sept 2025
Law Firm Metrics That Actually Matter
In this episode of Off the Clock, co-hosts Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper tackle one of their favorite topics: law firm metrics. They explain why traditional measures like billable hours, realization rates, and origination credit often create misalignment, wasted time, and even toxic firm cultures. Drawing on their experiences in both business and law, Gwen and Whitney reveal why firms should shift focus to meaningful KPIs that reflect values, client satisfaction, and long-term success. From the power of Net Promoter Scores (NPS) to measuring community impact, team health, and client experience, they highlight how law firms can evolve beyond outdated tracking systems. Listeners will come away with practical tools to identify what truly matters in their practice, plus simple steps to begin measuring success in ways that align with core values and client outcomes.
12 Sept 2025
Why We Broke Up with the Billable Hour (and You Can Too)
In this premiere episode of Off the Clock, co-founders of Advos Pro, Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper, share why they broke up with the billable hour and how lawyers can do the same. Together, they reflect on their early experiences in big law, the frustrations of tracking hours instead of results, and the turning points that led them to create a new model of practicing law. By drawing on lessons from software development and project-based pricing, they explain how lawyers can build profitable, joyful practices that prioritize client outcomes, efficiency, and work-life balance. This episode sets the stage for a fresh conversation about designing law practices that support freedom, fulfillment, and financial success.
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