Out of Step Podcast

About Out of Step Podcast

A podcast for those who live in the ecosystem of supporting others—coaches, guides, facilitators, mentors, and more—who sense there’s more on the edges of these roles than the widely accepted norms. Through stories, reflections, and honest conversations, we offer a sense of belonging, a touch of disruption, and an invitation to walk your own way beneath “the work.” Not everything will resonate, and some of this may challenge what you currently believe (that's intentional). Listen with curiosity and an open heart—take what speaks to you, leave what doesn’t.

Publisher

Andrew Carruthers

Category

health & fitness · society & culture

Language

en

Explicit

Yes

First episode

27 Jan 2026

Latest episode

11 Aug 2026

Latest episodes

16 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   11 Aug 2026

   EP16 The Massive Barrier of Beliefs w/ Jessica Burgio

   "I suck at marketing." That's the story I've been telling myself for years... and it turns out it's less about tactics and more about a wall of shit I built out of my own integrity. My guest Jessica is exactly the kind of person who calls that forward... down-to-earth, spiritual as hell, and not afraid to swear and get real with us. I basically asked her to coach me live on the show... and she did not hold back. Meet Jessica Jessica Burgio is an authority strategist, business coach, speaker, and host of The Jessica Burgio Show. For 25+ years she's helped entrepreneurs become the obvious choice in their industry... clarifying their message, strengthening their reputation, and building businesses that create opportunity long before the sales pitch. Before coaching, she spent years behind the chair as a salon owner. My friend Jess is blunt, funny, and deeply spiritual all at once... exactly who I needed sitting across from me for this one. What We Get Into Why "I suck at marketing" is really a story about integrity, not skill The pendulum swing between discipline and letting yourself be human Reframing sales and marketing as authenticity instead of sleaze Money, worth, and being an emotional buyer What happens when your defenses come up... and listening deeper anyway Imposter syndrome as a sign you're leveling up Reps, consistency, and running your own race instead of everyone else's Human design, projectors, and why your gift doesn't need to be hustled The time machine question... and the gift Jess would give her younger self Connect w/ Jess Instagram - @jessicaburgio (https://www.instagram.com/jessicaburgio/) Mastermind, One to One Coaching, and Podcast - jessicaburgio.com (http://jessicaburgio.com) Chapters 00:00 - Intro: the story behind "I suck at marketing" 05:34 - Checking in: back pain, presence, and the lessons in the body 11:01 - Being human out loud: pendulum swings and permission 14:47 - Turning the episode into a live coaching session 16:45 - Reframing sales, marketing, and creativity as authenticity 22:28 - Money stories, being an emotional buyer, and learning from mentors 27:40 - When your defenses come up... listening deeper instead of arguing 32:06 - Imposter syndrome as confirmation you're leveling up 43:32 - Reps, consistency, and running your own race 52:36 - Algorithm fatigue and adjusting to what actually works 56:08 - Human design, projectors, and owning your gift 1:09:25 - The time machine question and closing gifts

2. 

   28 Jul 2026

   EP15 Life is a Poem, Not a Documentary

   In full transparency, this solo episode took me way longer to sit down and record than I expected. Some things are hard to put into words, and this is one of those things. A few weeks ago my wife asked me how I was doing, and what came out of my mouth was this... "Life feels more like a poem lately, and less like a documentary." That sentence cracked something open for me, and this episode is me trying to share what has been stirring. What We Get Into You know that saying, things happen slowly and then suddenly? That's what this shift has felt like for me. I'm walking you through what it means to start seeing life (both our own life and those whom we support) through the lens of poetry instead of the lens of documentary... facts, metrics, SMART goals, all the stuff a lot of us were trained on in the coaching world. It has its place. But it doesn't capture the essence or depth of life. I share a couple of poems in this one too... one from David Whyte, one from Chiyo Ni, one from Frank Owen. And I talk about what it means to stop chasing the blockbuster moments and start noticing the ones that feel mundane on the surface. If you're a coach, guide, or facilitator, there's a lot in here for you specifically... about honoring every emotion that shows up in a session as having ENOUGH value to be there, about parts work, about not getting caught on the gem when someone's sharing something with you. If you feel called to connect or inquire about one to one Wayfaring with me, you can connect through my website or IG www.outofstep.life (http://www.outofstep.life) @andrew.carruthers (https://www.instagram.com/andrew.carruthers/) Chapters 00:01 – Why this episode took me so long to make 02:15 – Sharing poetry after years of keeping it private 04:30 – Welcome to episode 15... this one's solo 05:45 – "Life feels more like a poem lately" 08:10 – Poetry vs. documentary as a way of living 10:50 – David Whyte's "At Home" and finding the grand in the mundane 14:20 – Why every emotion has a place in the poem 17:00 – Parts work through a poetic lens 20:15 – Don't get caught on the gem 22:40 – Chiyo Ni's haiku and the beauty of subtlety 25:10 – Closing with Frank Owen's "Return"

3. 

   8 Jul 2026

   EP14 Death by One Thousand Cuts w/ Ambrosia Carey

   There was once a young human who believed money and status would finally make them whole... and if that story sounds familiar, it's because every myth that starts that way ends the same. Success doesn't equal fulfillment. My friend Ambrosia Carey found that out the hard way, and she's here to tell you exactly what it cost her to figure it out. Ambrosia's spent 27 years in the beauty industry... still doing hair, still building businesses, still consulting founders on growth and money and leadership. And underneath all of it, this same thread kept showing up in every conversation we've ever had: what happens when you get everything you thought you wanted and it still feels hollow. This one goes deep. Her mom's diagnosis. A business partnership she finally had the guts to walk away from. A psilocybin journey that cracked something open. And a question she wishes she'd asked herself decades earlier: not "what do I want," but "why do I want it." If you've ever hit what looked like the top and felt further from yourself than ever... this conversation is for you. What We Get Into The gap between what success looks like and what it feels like The "moving goalpost" and why achieving the thing never actually stops the wanting Reconnecting with a parent through illness instead of losing them to it The Five Percent Method for getting off your own back Choosing your motivation instead of letting it choose you Walking away from a seven-figure partnership over a values gap nobody else could see A hero's dose of psilocybin and what actually changed after What she'd tell her 18-year-old self about becoming a mom too young to know she was already enough Meet Ambrosia Ambrosia's spent nearly three decades behind the chair, building an education and consulting career alongside it, and she's watched more people chase the goalpost than she can count... herself included. These days she's untangling the difference between being needed and being whole, and she's writing a book about it. This conversation is her walking that unraveling out loud. Connect with Ambrosia: ambrosiacarey.com (https://www.ambrosiacarey.com) Insta: ambrosiacarey (https://www.instagram.com/ambrosiacarey/) Connect with Andrew outofstep.life (http://outofstep.life) Insta: andrew.carruthers (https://www.instagram.com/andrew.carruthers/) Chapters 00:06 – The myth every success story starts with 03:31 – Check-in: mind, body, emotion, spirit 06:51 – Her mom's diagnosis and finding each other again 09:06 – Redefining success: "does it feel as good as it looks?" 11:40 – The moving goalpost and the ache of not enough 14:04 – When success pulls you further from your soul 16:42 – Death by a thousand cuts 18:33 – The Five Percent Method 30:25 – Choosing your motivation before it chooses you 43:30 – Walking away: the partnership and the forgiveness work after 59:52 – The mushroom journey and what shifted afterward 1:05:36 – What she'd tell her 18-year-old self

4. 

   17 Jun 2026

   EP13 Challenging Our Beliefs From the Inside Out w/ Trevor Wyllthawk

   Those belief systems you are holding... who chose them? Did you? That's not a trick question LOL! It's something I sit with often and it's a big part of our conversation in this episode. Most of what we hold as beliefs was absorbed and formed in the background as we moved through life. Some of our beliefs and patterns formed even before we had language for them! Trevor and I dive into how belief systems form, why we hold onto them even when they're costing us, and what it actually takes to challenge them from the inside out. Trevor opens up about his own birth story and the belief that took shape in those first five days of his life... one that still shows up today. I share what came up for me after a "fuck it" weekend of camping, wine, pizza, and two helpings of ice cream (yes, twice). Neither of us have this figured out. That's kind of the point. We get into confirmation bias, the strange relief of having someone else hold our negative beliefs for us, why the body remembers what the mind can't access, and the difference between consciously choosing what you believe versus just inheriting it. This conversation is packed with good stuff! Trevor Wyllthawk is the creator of Nūma Breathwork and someone I had the privilege of learning from directly before we ever recorded this. He's spent 29 years in deep exploration through breathwork, somatics, shamanism, meditation, and ceremonial containers... including a seven-year initiation and 16-month hermitage that cracked him open to something essential beneath the stories we carry. Today he brings that wisdom into private therapy, transformational group work, and Nūma facilitator trainings, weaving together Hakomi, Somatic Experiencing, IFS, Chinese Medicine, and more. You can connect with Trevor and Nūma via these links: https://www.numabreathwork.com/ (https://www.numabreathwork.com/) https://www.wyllthawk.com/ (https://www.wyllthawk.com/) And instagram - https://www.instagram.com/numabreathwork/ (https://www.instagram.com/numabreathwork/) As always, you can connect with my on my IG and website: Insta - andrew.carruthers (https://www.instagram.com/andrew.carruthers) Website - outofstep.life (http://outofstep.life) [0:09] If you don't choose your belief systems, they choose you [4:16] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [5:44] Where do our belief systems actually come from? [8:53] Trevor's birth story and a belief formed in five days [14:32] Can a baby really absorb all of that? Trevor responds [20:58] Conscious vs. unconscious belief formation [25:55] The familiar voice and where it learned to talk like that [29:44] The Nūma Breathwork story + challenging my own bias [32:30] When Trevor had to tease apart the absolute and the relative [37:26] Walking a path to its end — completion vs. disillusionment [43:01] The cost of changing has to outweigh the cost of staying [48:16] The takeover technique in Hakomi + why negative beliefs can feel like relief [54:00] "How dare you tell me I'm loved" — when nurturing statements land wrong [57:55] How do we slow down when everything is moving this fast? [1:07:00] It doesn't have to go away — can you just be with it? [1:14:47] Closing thoughts + why this work matters for those who serve others

5. 

   9 Jun 2026

   EP12 What if We Stopped Fighting Ourselves w/ Virginia Terrill

   What is enough? I mean for real... in a world of "always get better," what is ENOUGH? If that question makes you squirm a little, you're in good company, because I'm right there with you. This week my friend Virginia makes the case that we already have the compass within us... the one we've been outsourcing to self-proclaimed gurus and the loudest voices in our social feed. I open with a story about an old friend named Leila Lee and a single question scrawled on a slip of paper that was handed to her at a party: "What is enough?" It has stuck with me for years and it frames so much of this episode. My friend Virginia Terrill, founder of Ethically Inclined Wellness, brings such a refreshingly down-to-earth voice to a space that usually runs on hustle and an undercurrent of "you're not doing enough." After roughly twenty years in active addiction, then recovery, early motherhood, and divorce all at once, she started asking what she actually needed... and pausing to check in with herself before taking on anyone else's playbook. We dig into the unconscious comparison of the endless scroll, the "done-for-you" speed that leaves us feeling behind, and that gut-punch belief that we're the problem. Virginia reframes wellness as what actually fits, not right or wrong... the same routine lands differently on two different people. I share my own history of handing my sovereignty over to mentors I looked up to and how they ended up being "shadow" mentors. Finally, we land on consistency: it looks different on different days, and adapting when life gets loud isn't quitting on yourself. Here's who you're hanging out with this week. Virginia is the founder of Ethically Inclined Wellness and the creator of what she calls self-collaboration... a way into wellness that actually holds up in real life! Through storytelling, mentorship, and nervous-system-informed practices, she helps us learn to work with ourselves instead of against ourselves. She's trained in wellness coaching and behavior change, and she's just beginning her Master of Social Work. Go say hello: https://ethicallyinclinedwellness.com/ (https://ethicallyinclinedwellness.com/) https://www.instagram.com/ethically.inclined.wellness (https://www.instagram.com/ethically.inclined.wellness) Timestamps 00:00 — What is enough? The question that frames the episode 03:05 — Meet Virginia + a four-part check-in 04:50 — What called her in: recovery, motherhood, divorce 09:46 — Sovereignty at an all-time low and the influencer machine 12:06 — Take what you need, leave the rest 16:20 — Ethically Inclined Wellness and "self-collaboration" 24:40 — "If you feel like you're the problem..." 30:12 — Skateboard magazines vs. the endless scroll 36:51 — The pendulum: grind culture vs. doing nothing 44:18 — My breathwork story + fit over right/wrong 51:52 — Failure is information + consistency looks different on different days 1:02:20 — The closing question: a message to young Virginia

6. 

   12 May 2026

   EP11 If You Could Go Back, Would You?

   I've been asking my guests at the end of every episode... "If you could speak to your younger self, what would you say?" And then a few days ago, my wife asked me the same thing. And honestly... it went way deeper than I expected. We ended up in this whole sci-fi rabbit hole. Like, Matrix and Total Recall style LOL. What if you could literally reach in and carve out a belief system? Or upload a lifetime of wisdom in a single moment? No butterfly effect, no consequences... just, what would you actually do with that? For me it went straight to my early 20s. Getting into the hair industry, becoming a bit of the cool kid... and feeding off it like crazy because underneath all of that I just didn't feel valuable without other people's approval. And I can look back now and see how much that shaped things. How much suffering came from it. How much I bent myself into shapes trying to get that acceptance. So yeah. This episode goes there. Where I'd go if I could reach back... and what I'd pull out What external validation actually cost me, and how I can still trace it The difference between shame and guilt when you're looking back honestly Holding "it was all for a reason" and "I wish it went differently" at the same time Why the wisdom isn't in the wishing... and where it actually lives The question I'm leaving with you Two seats left in the Wayfaring Method! Eight months of coach certification that actually gets into your body, not just your head. We launch in six days. outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod (http://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod) or find me on Instagram @andrew.carruthers 00:00 -- Reflecting on the Past: A Philosophical Inquiry 01:58 -- The Impact of Experiences on Personal Growth 05:32 -- The Quest for Self-Worth and External Validation 08:42 -- The Complexity of Change: Should We Alter Our Past? 09:37 -- Embracing Duality: Holding Multiple Truths 12:56 -- Exploring Possibilities: The Power of Reflection

7. 

   7 May 2026

   EP10 The Facilitators Journey from Control to Surrender w/ Carolyn Anne Budgell

   There's a version of facilitation and serving others that kinda looks like confidence but really it's control. We walk in with the perfect lesson plan, detailed agenda, and a pocket full of knowledge. But inside we are just praying that it all doesn't come undone. Whether you're a coach, a yoga teacher, a breathwork facilitator, or anyone who shows up in service of others... most of us started there. And the shift away from it is rarely sudden. It's slow, earned, and often uncomfortable. Carolyn Ann Budgell has been guiding people through meditation, mindfulness, and breathwork for over 15 years. What started as a ski season yoga discovery in Whistler became a body of work rooted in nervous system support, conscious breathing, and the belief that we can't force transformation... we can only create the conditions for it. In my conversation with Carolyn, we trace our own journey from needing to have it all figured out to a more spacious, intuitive, and grounded approach. We play with the concepts of surrender, the difference between physical body and somatic body, mentorship (healthy and unhealthy), and the sneaky need for validation that shapes most of us. Settle in... this episode feels like a chat at a coffee shop, but it's loaded with gold. If something in this episode stirred something in you... that's worth paying attention to. The Wayfaring Method is an 8-month coach certification for people who want to do this work from the inside out. Embodiment, breathwork, nervous system, coaching fundamentals, and the inner work that makes all of it land. 3 seats left. We start May 20th. Find out more at outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod (http://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod) or come find me on Instagram @andrew.carruthers and ask me anything. Connect with Carolyn: Website - https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/ (https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/) Free meditations - https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/freemeditations (https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/freemeditations) Upcoming events & retreats - https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/links (https://www.carolynannebudgell.com/links) 00:00 - The bug that started it all 04:44 - Meet Carolyn Ann Budgell 07:18 - Early days in the fire 11:00 - The shift from teacher to facilitator 16:05 - Rebellion as a path 21:42 - What does mentorship actually mean? 26:25 - The triangle pointing toward the teacher 31:41 - Holding steady when someone wants answers 40:20 - Nervous system regulation and the planning trap 49:46 - Getting into your body... which body? 55:41 - Taking yoga off the mat 1:02:01 - Showing up with no plan 1:05:46 - Surrender vs. letting go 1 :09:22 - What would you tell your younger self? 1:13:11 - Closing

8. 

   22 Apr 2026

   EP9 Is Our Story Our Power or Our Kryptonite w/ Evan Bourcier

   What if the story someone tells you is actually the wall keeping you out? Evan Bourcier has spent 15 years pulling real stories out of real people... athletes, musicians, billionaires, and even dudes bleeding out in Dunkin' Donuts. He has learned to sniff out the difference between the story someone tells and the story that's actually driving their life. In this conversation, we get into all of it: when to follow the story, when to press, when to shut up and let the silence do the heavy lifting... and why some coaching methodologies might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by cutting "story" off at the knees. About Evan: Evan Bourcier is Chief Creative Steward at Challenger Media House, where he tells real stories for individuals and companies who aren't interested in the sanitized version. His Substack, The Challenger Grimoire, is worth your time... go check it out: https://ebourcier.substack.com/ (https://ebourcier.substack.com/) Find him on Instagram at @challengermediahouse. (https://www.instagram.com/challengermediahouse/) In this episode: Why a story that loops might not be the problem... it might be the protection The two questions that open any door: "What makes you say that?" and "Tell me more about that" How 27,000 hours behind a salon chair built better coaching instincts than most certification programs Why letting someone be heard all the way through might be the most therapeutic thing you ever do The moment Evan gave a CrossFit athlete permission to tell him to fuck off... and why that made the whole thing work The Wayfaring Method Coach Certification opens in May. If you're someone who supports other humans and you're ready to go deeper than techniques and frameworks... to actually trust your intuitive wisdom in the room... this is the training for you. Head to outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod (http://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod) or DM me on Instagram at @andrew.carruthers. (https://www.instagram.com/andrew.carruthers/) 00:00 Introduction & what we're getting into today 03:37 Check-in: one word for mental, emotional, physical, spiritual 05:10 What ignited Evan's passion for story 11:13 The pattern behind people's calling 11:39 Why story wasn't welcome in the church 15:28 What is the actual power of story? 23:24 The difference between helpful and unhelpful story 34:38 When surface story is a wall of protection 37:46 The coaching session that broke someone's trust 41:50 Consent, intuition, and knowing when to lean in 46:18 Trusting intuitive wisdom over technique 49:35 The Alfred North Whitehead quote... and what it means 54:13 Authenticity vs. AI... what can't be replicated 01:02:18 Watching the mentor instead of being watched 01:05:18 Symbols, Daoism, and the limits of language 01:08:26 Hakomi, experiments, and putting a finger on it 01:13:06 Foundations as a safety net for intuition 01:18:25 Closing reflections and what's next with Evan Drop a comment or question for us! And subscribe if you want to support the podcast :-)

9. 

   16 Apr 2026

   EP8 Fuck the Boxes w/ Misty Jayne Harmon

   What if the identity we've built around our work is actually the thing holding us back? Not because it's wrong, but because we've let it become a box with walls so high we can't even see over them anymore? That's what this conversation is really about. My guest Misty Jayne Harmon has been a hairdresser for over 23 years, a money coach, a podcaster, and honestly a lot of other things that don't fit neatly into a bio. We get into the very real mental blocks that come up when you start to outgrow the identity you've created, why the "niche down" advice from the marketing world can become its own kind of trap, and what it actually feels like when you finally give yourself permission to just... be more than one thing. Fair warning, this one got personal. In a really good way. Links: Misty on IG: @_mistyjayne_ (https://www.instagram.com/_mistyjayne_/) Website: www.mistyjayne.com (http://www.mistyjayne.com) 2027 Costa Rica Retreat Waitlist: https://mistyjayne.mykajabi.com/costa-rica-2027-waitlist (https://mistyjayne.mykajabi.com/costa-rica-2027-waitlist) Andrew's Wayfaring Method Coach Certification (Starts May 2026): www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod (http://www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod) Timestamps [0:00] The identity trap — and who this episode is for [2:19] Introducing Misty Jane Harmon [3:48] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [5:10] When COVID took away the hairdresser identity — and what that revealed [8:10] The validation machine: what hairdressers get that coaches don't [11:29] The slow build — why stepping into coaching is harder than it looks [14:14] Starting from zero: lessons from Misty's first coaching client [19:16] Figuring out your lane — and why it takes longer than you think [21:32] How Misty Jane the money coach was born (hint: Toastmasters) [26:48] When the box starts to feel too small [30:19] What do I put in my Instagram bio? (It's a real block, not a stupid one) [31:52] Identity, marketing, and the high school cafeteria energy of social media [36:49] The session that changed everything — keep hairdresser or drop it? [40:44] Does the container guide you or confine you? [42:30] The playground fence study — why boundaries create freedom [46:11] Is comfort zone always the enemy? Maybe not. [49:20] Back-sided commitments — the invisible limits we set on ourselves [53:46] What pure coaching actually looks like vs. consulting [57:35] Evolving publicly — and why it gives others permission to do the same [59:27] What even is failure? And does it matter? [1:04:50] Advice to her younger self: don't discount the mistakes Out of Step is hosted by Andrew Carruthers — outofstep.life (http://outofstep.life)

10. 

    8 Apr 2026

    EP7 Gurus and Fellow Wayfarers w/ Frank Inzan Owen

    What if the most powerful thing a teacher can do is refuse to be your guru? That's the question at the heart of this conversation — and honestly, it's one I had to sit with myself before we even hit record. My guest is Frank Inzan Owen who has become a co-Wayfarer and teacher on my journey. I found him through a secondhand book my wife picked up from a friend's moving pile. Ten pages in, I knew I had to find whoever wrote it. That search eventually led me here... to one of the most important convos I've had about walking our own path. We get into what it really means to be a wayfarer, the difference between a teacher and a guru, and why I recently had to admit I was looking for someone to just tell me the right way forward. LOL. Spoiler: that's not how this works. About Frank Inzan Owen Frank is a wayfarer of a nature-centric contemplative path rooted in East Asian traditions. He's a poet, hill walker, organic gardener, and facilitator of a Jungian-informed practice he calls Soulfaring. He curates a Substack called The Luminous Procession that I can't recommend enough! 🌐 https://soulfaring.org/ (https://soulfaring.org/) 🌐 https://www.theluminousprocession.com/ (https://www.theluminousprocession.com/) Want more info on The Wayfaring Method coach training and certification? 🌐 https://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod (https://outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod) Timestamps [0:01] Welcome to Season 2 + Wayfaring Method cohort is open [1:06] How I found Frank — the secondhand book story [4:39] Check-in: one word each — mental, emotional, spiritual, physical [6:26] What is a Wayfarer? The word across traditions [9:08] The shift from way seeker to wayfarer — and what Soul Faring is [13:18] The tension between the wayfarer and the guru model [14:23] I asked Frank to be my mentor. His response changed everything. [16:46] Frank's history with teachers — and the clear mirror [20:16] The triangle: where is the point aimed? [24:57] "Not passed down — passed over, like a cup of tea" [29:05] When a teacher told me my eclectic spirituality meant I was "lost" [31:40] "But what if I do it wrong?" + You're never not on the path. [35:20] The models for direct experience are the mentor [41:24] "It sounds like that faucet is running dry" — the oasis image [46:13] Practice as antidote + the world of red dust [51:54] If you're only doing yoga in the studio, you're not doing yoga [53:30] The Aikido subway story + where to start as a wayfarer Referenced in this episode: 📘 The Mist-Filled Path — Frank MacEowen 📚 Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind — Shunryu Suzuki 📚 Future Shock / The Third Wave / Power Shift — Alvin Toffler 📚 Aikido and the New Warrior — "A Kind Word Turneth Away Wrath" 🌬️ Numa Breathwork Out of Step is hosted by Andrew Carruthers — outofstep.life (http://outofstep.life)

11. 

    26 Mar 2026

    EP6 No Shortcuts, Just the Way: Reflections from The Way Beneath the Work

    There’s no clean path to finding our place in this work… and definitely no five-step formula. In this solo reflection, I wrap up The Way Beneath the Work mini-series by sharing what’s been most nourishing, challenging, and real for me after conversations with Ari, Sagewolf, Sarai, and Kathleen. From spirituality and community to the necessity of hard experiences and the willingness to follow inner callings, this episode pulls together the deeper threads that have been running beneath it all. If you’re someone who supports other humans—and you’re trying to find your own authentic way of doing that—this is a reminder that the path isn’t something you follow… it’s something you walk. We talk about: Why there are no shortcuts to real inner work The role of spirituality (without dogma) in guiding others The difference between surface-level and deep, accountable community Why the hard stuff isn’t optional if you want depth Following inner callings (even when it doesn’t feel like courage) Exploring your edges and expanding your “fence” What’s next for the podcast + an invitation into the Wayfaring Method This is the end of the mini-series… and the beginning of what’s next. The next cohort of the Wayfaring Method is now open! www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod (http://www.outofstep.life/wayfaringmethod) for more info Chapter Markers 00:00 Closing the mini-series + why this journey matters 02:00 Wayfaring Method announcement + inner work as foundation 03:20 The biggest theme: there are no shortcuts 04:30 Ari + the role of spirituality (without dogma) 08:30 Sagewolf + deeper, more accountable community 12:00 Sarai + why the hard experiences are non-negotiable 15:00 Depth vs. “high vibe” living (and the illusion of ease) 17:30 Holding multiple facets of self (Bill Plotkin model) 19:30 Kathleen + following inner callings without waiting for courage 22:00 Living in transition + learning to move with change 23:30 Exploring edges + the playground/fence metaphor 26:30 Expanding your “fence” through other perspectives 27:00 What success actually felt like from this series 28:30 What’s next: Season 2 + continuing to push edges

12. 

    24 Feb 2026

    EP5 Don't Call it Woo - A Journey of Big Leaps with Dr. Kathleen Funk

    You know when a friend you love introduces you to another cool-ass human… and you instantly know you’re supposed to be homies? That’s Kathleen Funk. She’s a 4th generation healer with a doctorate in Traditional Chinese Medicine who left a successful integrative clinic… and followed the call into art, energy work, and what she (rightfully) calls “Don’t Call It Woo.” In this conversation, we get into the real journey beneath the work: how your “niche” isn’t a box you lock yourself into, why most people don’t pivot fast enough, and what it looks like to trust the winding road instead of waiting for perfect certainty. Kathleen shares the leap from “valid profession” expectations and Western-friendly credibility… into subtle energy mapping, chi flow “weather reports,” and using art as a form of liberation and decolonizing wellness. If you’ve ever felt the itch to evolve, the guilt of changing lanes, or the fear of leaving something that’s working… this one will land. Connect with Kathleen: Instagram: @acufuncture (https://www.instagram.com/acufunkture/) Patreon community: Don’t Call It Woo (https://patreon.com/DontCallitWoo?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_fan&utm_content=join_link) Request an appointment for an Energy Map https://acufunkture.com (https://acufunkture.com/) Chapters: 00:00 — Intro: “cool-ass people” + who Kathleen is 03:05 — Truest/highest self: power, alignment, shadow + vitality 05:50 — Eco-niche, purpose, and why the path is never a straight line 09:44 — The niche trap: branding before voice (backwards) 13:55 — Permission to evolve (and stop feeling guilty about it) 18:29 — Pivot vs. “bailing”: how to tell what’s actually happening 22:33 — Fear, community, and launching “Don’t Call It Woo” anyway 27:56 — Kathleen’s origin story: 4th gen healer → TCM doctorate 32:51 — Healing beyond symptoms: emotional, energetic, spiritual root-work 39:07 — The limits of Western-valid credibility + scaling burnout 41:12 — The lease renewal moment: “nope, not five more years” 48:13 — When the body forces the issue: losing vision + the call to paint 55:55 — Sabbatical + intuitive painting: the door that opened everything 01:02:32 — Art residencies: Canada woods + Italy cathedrals 01:04:47 — Energy Maps: visual reflections of the subtle body 01:07:33 — Returning to 1:1 work: sustainable, energizing, guided by Spirit 01:12:13 — How to work with Kathleen now (Patreon + 1:1) 01:14:25 — Closing: gratitude, love, and “my cup is full”

13. 

    17 Feb 2026

    EP4 Chaos and Calm w/ Sarai Speer

    This episode has a whole bunch of f-cks—and it’s not for shock value, it’s part of the medicine! Sarai Speer tells the real story: what it cost to survive, heal, and rebuild capacity from the inside out on her journey to Authenticity. If you’ve ever looked “fine” while your nervous system was completely maxed out… this one’s for you. Sarai is a nervous system + mental health coach, international speaker, and creator of The Held Method + Capacity Club. We talk about what “highest self” actually feels like vs our "parts", how identity becomes more fluid with real adulthood, why the leap into purpose rarely comes with a map, and how healing can look like kintsugi—broken pieces fused with gold. Content note: vulnerable discussion of abuse, addiction/drug use, eating disorders, and mental health. Please take care while listening. Links! H.E.L.D. Nervous System Course (aka Regulate the Fuck Outta Yourself) https://saraispeer.com/held-method (https://saraispeer.com/held-method) Sarai's Podcast: https://feeds.transistor.fm/combative-calm-f977c95b-c833-4586-b855-ea716d63e8d4 (https://feeds.transistor.fm/combative-calm-f977c95b-c833-4586-b855-ea716d63e8d4) Website: https://saraispeer.com/ (https://saraispeer.com/) 1:1 Coaching Call: https://saraispeer.com/inside-out-session (https://saraispeer.com/inside-out-session) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theplatinumgiraffe/ (https://www.instagram.com/theplatinumgiraffe/) Chapter Markers 00:00 Intro + warning: lots of f-bombs 03:43 “Highest self” question 04:27 What it looks like (confidence, aura, “I don’t give a f-ck”) 06:06 What it sounds like (big presence, pace, intensity) 08:53 What it feels like (powerful/soft, masculine/feminine) 13:05 Sarai’s origin story begins (assault, anger, eating disorder) 17:45 Addiction escalates + homelessness 20:05 Sobriety + work becoming the next addiction 23:45 Leaving the hair industry + coming back to core self 32:43 Kintsugi metaphor + “what filled the cracks?” 34:04 Zone of greatness vs zone of genius (The Big Leap) 40:23 The leap has no map + pain of staying > fear of leaving 44:07 Practices that helped: yoga, slowing down, intuition 53:46 Authenticity = embracing all parts (not linear) 01:04:12 Poem: nature as teacher (calm + chaos, release + rise) 01:07:03 Closing: intuition vs fear (“soft/quiet” vs “loud”) 01:09:20 Gratitude + wrap

14. 

    8 Feb 2026

    EP3 Community is the Medicine w/ Sagewolf Cooper

    In Episode 3, I sit down with my brother Sagewolf... devoted father of five, husband, and powerful guide for men. We talk about the lifelong hunger for community, how it changes over time, and what becomes possible when you’re willing to meet yourself honestly. This one goes deep into accountability, supportive confrontation and the kind of community that doesn’t just comfort you... it sharpens you. This episode is part of the mini-series The Way Beneath “The Work,” where I’m exploring the deeper, often unseen journey of finding your true place in the ecosystem of supporting other humans. Sagewolf and I trace the thread of community through his life from being the kid who just wanted to be with his people, to becoming someone immersed in potent circles and now helping lead them. We talk about the shift from chasing belonging through identity, achievement, and external validation to discovering a deeper form of community rooted in acceptance, radical honesty, and ownership. Sagewolf shares how years behind the chair in the hair world became an unexpected mirror reflecting patterns back to him and sparking meaningful change. From there, we explore ecstatic dance as “church,” embodied spaces, and what changed when he stepped into Sacred Sons. One of the most powerful moments we unpack is Sagewolf’s first experience being asked to name a judgment toward someone he didn’t know, and meet it directly. We explore how facing charge in real time can transform judgment into connection, and how intimacy isn’t just sexual... it’s about a true closeness without barriers. We also talk about why so many people struggle to receive community mirrors at all... the “I’m fine” mask, the drive to keep it together, and the tendency to wait until rock bottom before reaching out. We break down the difference between being called out and being called in, and why real community doesn’t exile you when you’re out of alignment, it invites you back in. If you’ve been craving deeper community but don’t know where to start, Sagewolf offers grounded guidance: show up more than once, move your body, be willing to raise your hand first—and if you can’t find what you need, create it. Sometimes it really does start with a few people, a meal, and one honest conversation. As always, listen with ears and heart open. Take what speaks. Leave what doesn’t. And keep showing up. Connect with Sagewolf: https://www.instagram.com/sagewolf_eto_eda/ (https://www.instagram.com/sagewolf_eto_eda/) 00:00 — Welcome to Out Of Step & The Way Beneath “The Work” 02:05 — Introducing Sage Wolf 04:00 — What Does Your Most Authentic Self Look, Sound, and Feel Like? 07:10 — A Lifelong Hunger for Community 12:30 — The Hair World as a Mirror 16:45 — Early Personal Development & Cracks in the Old Identity 18:30 — First Steps Into Men’s Work 20:45 — Discovering Sacred Sons 24:30 — Acceptance, Radical Honesty, and Ownership 28:45 — Why People Can’t Receive Community Mirrors 33:20 — The First Sacred Sons Experience 36:45 — Meeting Judgment Head-On 44:45 — Brotherhood vs. Social Circles 47:30 — Accountability, Reps, and Sharpening the Edge 52:30 — Finding Your Version of Accountability 55:45 — Call-Out vs. Call-In 58:45 — How to Build This Kind of Community 01:02:30 — A Human Reminder 01:05:20 — Gratitude & Closing

15. 

    3 Feb 2026

    EP2 Spiritual and Ancestral Guidance w/ Ari Huitzilopotchli

    This episode is a deep conversation about ancestry, spirit, and the support available to us when we remember where we come from. I’m joined by my friend Ari Huitzilopotchli, who works with women in midlife navigating identity shifts, endings, and the space between who they were and who they’re becoming. This conversation is part of The Way Beneath the Work — a mini-series exploring what it really takes to find our true place within the ecosystem of supporting other humans. Not through branding, titles, or positioning, but through a deeper remembering of who we are and how we’re meant to serve. Ari shares her own journey... from decades behind the chair in the salon to the deeply grounded work she holds now with individuals, women in midlife, and couples. Together, we explore ancestry, spirit, guidance, and how to tell the difference between intuition and the anxious head-chatter that so often pulls us off our path. We talk about elders, lineage, belonging, and why this work is not meant to be rushed. Why healing isn’t something to “finish,” and why so many of us feel disconnected from our worth, our purpose, and our sense of place — even while helping others find theirs. This episode is an invitation to slow down, listen more deeply, and trust the longer journey of becoming who you’re here to be. Listen with an open heart. Take what resonates. Leave what doesn’t. Connect with Ari: Insta: https://www.instagram.com/fearless.femme.life/ (https://www.instagram.com/fearless.femme.life/) Website: https://www.fearlessfemmelife.com/ (https://www.fearlessfemmelife.com/) 00:00 — An Invitation to Listen How to meet this conversation with curiosity instead of agreement. 02:25 — Belonging Beneath the Roles Why this work isn’t about titles, branding, or identity labels. 04:10 — Ari & the Call of Ancestry Meeting Ari and her relationship with spirit and lineage. 07:45 — Growing Up with Spirit Early awareness, family dynamics, and learning to live with the gift. 12:30 — The Salon as Sacred Space Holding space long before having language for it. 17:50 — Medicine, Elders, and Restraint Why guidance requires maturity, lineage, and care. 22:40 — Spirit vs. Head Chatter How to tell intuition from fear-based thinking. 28:15 — Trusting the Leap Fear, courage, and walking the path anyway. 33:00 — Beyond Fixing Ourselves Why healing isn’t something to “complete.” 38:40 — The Body Remembers Memory, fascia, and embodied release. 43:20 — When You Feel Disconnected Rebuilding relationship with ancestry and spirit. 49:30 — This Takes Time Why the long road matters. 54:40 — A Message from Spirit A closing blessing on belonging and love.

16. 

    27 Jan 2026

    Ep. 1 - Holy shit! Here we go

    Holy shit friends—here we go. This podcast has been rattling around in my head for seven or eight years. For a long time, it felt like something I should do. Especially if you’re in the coaching world the message was - have a podcast, build the brand, do the thing. And honestly, that pressure is probably why I didn’t start it back then. This year, something shifted. It stopped being about my business and started feeling like it had real purpose. Like something I needed to say, whether it “worked” or not. Out of Step is for people who support other humans—coaches, mentors, facilitators, educators, leaders, healers. But more specifically, it’s for those of us who feel like we live a little off the map of those worlds. The ones who don’t quite fit the standard strategies, systems, or personalities that seem to dominate these industries. In this first episode, I share my own long, messy path—from hairdressing apprentice, to educator, to coach—and the parts of that journey that almost broke me. Burnout. The terrifying experience of losing my relationship with my voice. Questioning who I was and whether I even belonged in this work. And how all of that eventually led me to a way of working that feels honest and sustainable—what I now call Wayfaring. This isn’t a how-to episode. It’s not cleaned up. It’s an origin story. Real stories, real questions, and some uncomfortable truths about what it actually takes to walk this path of supporting other humans. If you’ve ever felt drawn to this work but uneasy with the usual formulas… If you’ve ever wondered whether there’s another way to do this without losing yourself… You’re in the right place. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Out of Step Podcast 01:44 The Purpose Behind the Podcast 05:44 Andrew's Journey in Hairdressing 10:49 Transitioning to Education and Coaching 18:45 Facing Burnout and Rediscovering Purpose 27:40 The Impact of COVID and Shifting Focus 30:14 Embracing Authenticity and Rebranding 36:33 Conclusion and Call to Action

Reach and audience

Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.

Apple Podcasts (US)

5.0 / 5

5 ratings

Spotify

5.0 / 5

3 ratings

Contact Out of Step Podcast

Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.