- 12
- Episodes
- 3
- Ratings
- 2025
- First episode
- 112
- YouTube views
About Overruled by Data
Overruled by Data is the podcast for law firms looking to accelerate their data journey without all the pain points. Hosted by Tom Baldwin and brought to you by Entegrata, each episode shares real-world stories from law firm leaders who’ve tackled the tough stuff—getting data from all the right places, navigating the AI hype, and scaling operations in a way that doesn’t leave you with a mountain of tech debt. If you're in a leadership role at a law firm, this show offers valuable insights from those who've been there, sharing what works and what to avoid on your data-driven journey.
- Publisher
- Tom Baldwin
- Category
- business · business
- Language
- en
- Explicit
- No
- First episode
- 2 Jun 2025
- Latest episode
- 27 Jul 2026
Latest episodes
12 episodes in the feed.
27 Jul 2026
What Happens to Marketing When Law Firms Deploy a Lakehouse?
What actually happens to marketing when a firm's data lives in a central lakehouse instead of a stack of disconnected systems? In this episode, Jason Kennedy (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmkennedy/), CEO of Choate Frazier (https://www.choatefrazier.com/), makes the case that modern legal marketing requires a marketer who can speak the language of IT, knowledge management, and innovation. Jason shares his journey from CMO to marketing ops to data strategist at Holland & Knight, and breaks down how Big Law firms are rethinking their MarTech architecture to move past fragmented spreadsheets and second copies of the truth. He argues that you can’t prove marketing value when your team spends all its time putting out data fires. That philosophy shapes everything from how firms evaluate CRM options across the Am Law 200 to why headless CRM is gaining traction. He explains why lakehouse architecture gives marketing unfettered access to governed firm-wide data, why data silos are giving rise to expensive AI sprawl, and why finding your North Star is key to earning a seat at the table. Jason also gets honest about why measuring ROI is so hard when partners act as the sales force, and how data helps you tell a partner why a prospect is a waste of time. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:51) The struggle to define marketing ROI in professional services (02:46) Discovering the power of legal data (04:03) Crash course in data architecture at Holland & Knight (06:54) What is a data lakehouse architecture? (08:52) Differences between a data lake, warehouse, and lakehouse (10:19) Why traditional CRMs become a second copy of the truth (12:49) The reality of being data-driven in Big Law marketing (25:36) Evaluating the Am Law 200 CRM landscape (29:19) Exploring headless CRM options in legal tech (34:49) Avoiding the hidden trap of AI sprawl across MarTech (37:16) Practical first steps for data-driven marketing Connect with our guest: Jason Kennedy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmkennedy/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmkennedy/) Learn more about Choate Frazier: https://www.choatefrazier.com/ (https://www.choatefrazier.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
29 May 2026
How Law Firms Overcome AI Adoption Barriers
How do you drive widespread AI adoption in a law firm, and how do you navigate the thin line between a quick weekend proof-of-concept and enterprise-grade deployment? In this episode, Tim Fox, Chief Data and AI Officer at Ogletree Deakins, shares his unique journey from mailman to litigator, AI co-founder, and now C-suite strategist. Tim explains how Ogletree Deakins moved past the initial AI hype cycle to achieve an impressive 70% to 80% monthly active user adoption rate among its attorneys across their platforms. He walks through the operational realities of scaling software, explaining why relying purely on vibe coding misses the critical enterprise governance and security frameworks required in a regulated legal environment. Tim also unpacks the false binary of buying vs. building legal tech, how to effectively partner with vendors to ensure mutual success, and why law firm leadership teams must actively experiment with AI tools to truly understand their long-term strategic impact. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:50) Mailman transitioning to legal AI leader (06:09) Transforming firm data into strategic advantage (07:45) Settlement data extraction insights (09:09) Leveraging external data for competitive advantage (10:32) Four key barriers to AI adoption (15:31) Training staff for effective AI usage (18:55) Buy and build AI strategy explained (21:33) How to run vendor demos successfully (25:36) Managing legal tech ecosystem sprawl (36:27) Regulatory data insights for labor law (39:10) Sequencing data strategy and governance Connect with our guest: Tim Fox on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-fox-legal/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-fox-legal/) Learn more about Ogletree Deakins: https://ogletree.com/ (https://ogletree.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
6 Feb 2026
Five Years In: Why Munger Moved Beyond Their Homegrown Lakehouse
How do you build a law firm data platform that actually gets used, and know when it’s time to evolve beyond it? In this episode, Reanna Martinez, Director of Innovation, Systems, and Data at Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP, shares the firm’s multi-year journey building a modern, cloud-based data lakehouse on Azure. From standardizing data at the point of entry to consolidating employee, financial, and matter data into a centralized platform, Reanna explains how Munger transformed fragmented information into a trusted enterprise asset. She walks through why the firm initially chose to build in-house, how governance and security shaped every architectural decision, and what five years of hands-on experience taught her team about scalability, resourcing, and long-term sustainability. Reanna also breaks down the signals that indicated it was time to evolve toward a purpose-built data platform, and what other firms should understand before embarking on a similar path. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:50) Reanna Martinez’s career path into systems and data (03:52) Establishing a firmwide data foundation at Munger (05:09) Governance constraints that shaped innovation decisions (06:41) Creating a centralized platform to eliminate data silos (09:35) Why the firm chose to build its platform internally (12:12) Key lessons learned from building a homegrown lakehouse (21:53) How AI changes expectations for secure data platforms (28:52) Reflections on data access, insights, and evolving delivery Connect with our guest: Reanna Martinez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reannamartinez/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/reannamartinez/) Learn more about Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP: https://www.mto.com/ (https://www.mto.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
28 Nov 2025
How Ballard Spahr Modernized Analytics from Data Warehouses to Lakehouses
How do you turn legal data into a modern platform that powers analytics, self-service, and AI across one of the nation’s most innovative law firms? In this episode, Lisa Mayo Haynes, Senior Director of Technology Innovation, and Ian Lopez, Manager of Technology and Innovative Solutions at Ballard Spahr LLP, share how the firm modernized its data warehouse into a lakehouse that unites structured and unstructured data: powering real-time dashboards, predictive insights, and generative AI tools like Ask Ellis and Ballard X-Ray. They outline how Ballard Spahr built a trusted data foundation that drives adoption and measurable impact through accurate, effectively-dated data, secure access, and a shift from reactive to predictive analytics. Lisa and Ian also discuss how their team built data confidence across the firm: teaching data literacy, simplifying access, and scaling early wins into lasting transformation. From major time savings to AI tools that free attorneys for higher-value work, they show how Ballard Spahr is turning information into a future-ready, trusted data ecosystem. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (00:32) Meet the innovators: Lisa Mayo Haynes and Ian Lopez (02:30) Lisa's journey: From developer to director of technology innovation (03:52) Ian's path: Discovering the power of analytics (05:43) The importance of accurate data (08:46) Transitioning to a modern data platform (10:23) Cross-departmental collaboration and challenges (12:22) Predictive analytics and client value (22:12) Lessons learned and future directions (25:09) Building data confidence in partnerships (27:42) Implementing effective data governance (30:01) Proud achievements in AI and data integration (36:17) Adoption metrics and ROI (41:58) Future of AI and data in legal firms Connect with our guests: Lisa Mayo Haynes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisammayohaynes/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisammayohaynes/) Ian Lopez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-brooks-lopez/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-brooks-lopez/) Learn more about Ballard Spahr LLP: https://www.morganlewis.com/ (https://www.morganlewis.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
31 Oct 2025
From Pricing Models to BI Dashboards: How Morgan Lewis Operationalizes Data
How do you turn legal data into trusted insight across one of the world’s largest law firms? In this episode, Jennifer Mapp, Senior Director of Data Management and Analytics at Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, shares how her team built a firmwide data foundation that empowers attorneys and business leaders to make faster, smarter decisions. From launching business intelligence dashboards that replaced hours of manual reporting to expanding the firm’s knowledge management program into a structured data governance model, Jennifer explains how credibility, collaboration, and consistency turned raw data into real value. She walks through how Morgan Lewis connects internal and external data to create unified profiles for over 15,000 cases. Jennifer also breaks down how the firm measures success (adoption, quality, and attorney feedback), the importance of starting small instead of waiting for perfect data, and how cross-functional collaboration is setting the stage for responsible AI readiness across the firm. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:33) Jennifer's journey into legal data (04:39) The importance of data quality and adoption (13:35) Implementing business intelligence dashboards (16:17) Curating metadata for enhanced insights (20:28) Measuring impact and adoption (22:41) Challenges and lessons in data governance (29:10) Buy vs. Build: Strategic decisions (31:17) Future of data, analytics, and AI in law firms (34:04) Practical advice for data strategy Connect with our guest: Jennifer Mapp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-mapp-mba-81890b7/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-mapp-mba-81890b7/) Learn more about Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP: https://www.morganlewis.com/ (https://www.morganlewis.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
3 Oct 2025
Sailing Through Uncertainty: Building the Law Firm Lakehouse
What makes a modern data platform actually work inside a law firm? In this episode, Mark Thorogood, Director of Enterprise Data Operations & Software Engineering at Perkins Coie LLP, breaks down how his team moved beyond on-prem constraints to a DIY lakehouse and logical data fabric that unify insights across the firm. Drawing on lessons from the army and time at sea, Mark explains why standards, simplicity, and focusing on “critical data elements” beat boiling the ocean, and how a business glossary (not just a data dictionary) turns data into decisions. Mark also shares the nuts and bolts: Databricks and Microsoft Fabric on Delta/Parquet, Denodo for virtualization, and Power BI on the front end, plus the outcomes that matter (costs cut to one-fifteenth, 12× more finished rows, and cycle times moving from months to sprints). We get into API realities (why you’ll cache), medallion-style layers (including their “copper” tier), portfolio-level budgeting beyond matter records, and what’s next with agentic AI producing defensible, explainable analyses across practice groups. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:34) Mark's career journey (02:48) Lessons from the Army and sailing (05:09) Leadership and team building (06:21) The importance of data (08:27) Building a data platform (12:52) Implementing a lakehouse (16:03) Architecture inspiration and choices (17:47) Business glossary vs. Data dictionary (22:03) Challenges in scaling and API performance (23:24) Utilizing API data for enrichment (26:37) Building and managing a data team (28:52) Client portfolio budgets and AI integration (30:43) Future of data analytics and AI in legal (35:18) Virtualization and semantic layers (36:50) Resistance to change and overcoming it (38:57) Practical tips for data platform transition Connect with our guest: Mark Thorogood on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/methorogood/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/methorogood/) Learn more about Perkins Coie LLP: https://perkinscoie.com/ (https://perkinscoie.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
18 Sept 2025
Transforming Law Firm: From Data to Intelligence
What good is a dashboard if no one’s using it? In this episode, Jeannine Zito, senior manager of global knowledge solutions at Cleary Gottlieb, talks about how her background in banking shaped the way she thinks about data, strategy, and transformation inside major law firms. She gets into what happens when firms wait too long for the “perfect” data strategy, how information overload slows down adoption, and why the real driver of insight isn’t spreadsheets—it’s storytelling. Jeannine also shares what it was like to move from JP Morgan into legal, what she learned rolling out a new intranet and firm directory in just nine months, and why the firms getting it right today are focused on building data cultures—not just tech stacks. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:09) Janine's career journey: from banking to law (04:39) Challenges and epiphanies in data management (11:11) The importance of data quality and context (14:14) Leveraging data for strategic decisions (23:49) Future of data and AI in legal industry (33:54) Balancing immediate wins with long-term strategy Connect with our guest: Jeannine Zito on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeannine-zito/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeannine-zito/) Learn more about Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP: https://www.clearygottlieb.com/ (https://www.clearygottlieb.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
4 Sept 2025
Experience First: Redefining Legal Intelligence at Scale
What makes a data strategy actually work inside a law firm? In this episode, Carrie Remhof, Director of Firm Intelligence at Troutman Pepper Locke LLP, shares what she’s learned from building, implementing, and reimagining legal data systems across 30+ firms. She talks about the real reasons legal tech projects succeed or stall, why data perfection is a myth, and how firms can adopt a “fail fast” mindset without compromising on risk. Carrie also walks us through her unique journey from software engineer to legal tech leader, offering candid advice on hybrid profiling, AI adoption, and how to avoid “data hoarding.” Plus, she breaks down how her team used AI to unify attorney bios post-merger, why curiosity matters more than credentials, and what it takes to foster a culture of innovation in a conservative industry. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:20) Career highlights and key learnings (02:43) Implementing and innovating with Foundation (06:50) Challenges and strategies in legal data management (18:31) Adapting to new features and data capture (19:45) Hybrid profiling and use cases at Troutman (22:32) Innovative solutions for mergers (25:03) Fostering a culture of innovation (31:54) Embracing AI and data projects Connect with our guest: Carrie Remhof on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-remhof-011a39b/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-remhof-011a39b/) Learn more about Troutman Pepper Locke LLP: https://www.troutman.com/ (https://www.troutman.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
21 Aug 2025
Forget Perfection: Why Curiosity and Culture Drive Legal Data Success
What happens when data, clients, and people finally connect? In this episode, Rachel Shields Williams, Director of Client Intelligence at Sidley Austin LLP and incoming president of the Legal Marketing Association, shares how a lifelong instinct to “just help people” evolved into one of the most forward-thinking data roles in big law. Rachel explains why chasing perfection kills progress, what law firms can learn from a family-run business, and how to balance short-term data wins with long-term strategic value. Plus: the critical importance of soft skills in innovation, the value of failure, and why today’s legal marketers need to become fluent in data or risk being left behind. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:36) Rachel's career journey (04:07) The origin of Rachel’s service mindset (06:23) The role of data in law firms (14:42) The importance of failing and learning (20:11) Hiring for traits over titles (26:13) The future of data analytics and AI (30:10) Practical data wisdom for law firms Connect with our guest: Rachel Shields Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelshieldswilliams/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelshieldswilliams/) Learn more about Sidley Austin LLP: https://www.sidley.com/ (https://www.sidley.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
6 Aug 2025
Harnessing Data and AI for Legal Industry Innovation
What good is all that data if no one’s using it to take action? In this episode, Evan Shenkman and Jennifer Mendez of Fisher Phillips break down what it really means to build a data-driven culture inside a law firm. They share how their team went from buzzwords to business impact: rolling out viral dashboards, tapping into firm-wide buy-in, and partnering with vendors to co-develop tools powered by GPT-4. Evan and Jenn also get into the limitations of case prediction, what makes a “quick win” actually work, and why firms that obsess over the perfect model are often the ones stuck on the sidelines. Their advice? Start small. Stay close to the business. Build trust through results. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (02:05) Realizing the power of data (02:29) Early data projects and external data (05:26) Internal data utilization and COVID-19 tracker (11:48) AI in law: early adoption and lessons learned (15:06) Challenges in predictive analytics (17:17) Data collection and management (21:24) Common pitfalls in legal data projects (23:37) Getting started with data in law firms (24:08) Leveraging external data and APIs (26:25) The power of third-party data (27:02) Identifying high-impact projects (28:21) Iterative development and quick wins (32:02) Future of AI in legal practice (38:16) Building AI competency and measuring success Connect with our guests: Evan Shenkman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-shenkman-5445123/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-shenkman-5445123/) Jennifer Mendez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennperez/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennperez/) Learn more about Fisher Phillips: https://www.fisherphillips.com/ (https://www.fisherphillips.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
6 Aug 2025
How Law Firm Leaders Must Act on Data, Not Just Talk About It
You can’t manage what you’re not measuring. In this episode, Robert Sartin, chairman of Frost Brown Todd, shares how his background in economics, finance, and distressed M&A led him to champion a data-forward strategy long before it became industry standard. He talks about why law firms can’t afford to delay their data journeys, what it takes to turn firm-wide strategy into execution, and how he built alignment around change in a partnership environment. Robert also discusses the unexpected power of gamification in building a data culture, and how AI will reshape pricing, talent management, and long-term firm viability. Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:09) From banking and M&A to law firm leadership (04:33) Why Frost Brown Todd leaned into data (07:47) Building a value proposition with data (10:20) Why strategy without data won’t work (13:12) AI’s impact on pricing and firm structure (16:21) Building buy-in inside a law firm (20:29) What Robert would do differently (23:15) Leading cultural change with early wins (25:56) Gamifying historical data entry (28:06) Using data to integrate and grow teams (33:20) The future of Frost Brown Todd (34:44) Advice for law firm leaders just starting Connect with our guest: Robert Sartin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-sartin-a7278713/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-sartin-a7278713/) Learn more about Frost Brown Todd: https://frostbrowntodd.com/ (https://frostbrowntodd.com/) Connect with Tom: Tom Baldwin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombaldwin/) Learn more about Entegrata: https://www.entegrata.com (https://www.entegrata.com)
2 Jun 2025
Introducing Overruled by Data
Host Tom Baldwin introduces the Overruled by Data podcast, which shares real-world stories from law firm leaders about navigating AI and scaling operations to accelerate their data journey.
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
- YouTube views
- 112
- Score snapshot 15 Sept 2025
- Apple Podcasts (US)
- 4.0 / 5
- 1 ratings
- Spotify
- 5.0 / 5
- 2 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 14 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
- Quality
- 2
- Social presence
- 0
- YouTube
- 64
- Engagement
- 0
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