Per Say is a law student podcast, produced and hosted by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our episodes explore the law school experience, highlight student organizations, and feature interviews with legal practitioners.
Episode 11: Different Firms, Different Paths to Advocacy
Every great advocate starts somewhere, but not every path looks the same!
The size of a law firm can shape more than just your career path. It can
shape the kind of advocate you become. Beyond the reputation and prestige,
Big Law, midsize, and boutique firms each offer unique opportunities,
challenges, and misconceptions. Hear firsthand experiences from Professor
Matthew Crockett, Brandon Wonnacott & Jaime DeWees — attorneys from three
practice environments who discuss what sets their firms apart and how their
different paths have shaped their approaches to advocacy!
-Yvette Mendoza
8 Apr 2026
Episode 10: Moot Court Excellence; Inside UNT’s New York Upset
If you enjoy March Madness, Rocky, or perhaps witnessing a classmate nail a cold call they were totally unprepared for, you probably appreciate a good underdog story. Unlike that classmate that surely did not immediately Quimbee the case after getting called on, this episode takes a retrospective dive into the detailed preparedness behind UNT’s stunning upset over Harvard Law School.
Just recently, Andrew Brown, Victoria Saucedo, and Hamilton Hayers competed in the National Moot Court Competition in New York City. Going into the competition as the 15th seed, this team upset 2nd seed Harvard Law School in the preliminary rounds and went on to place 3rd in the competition out of 191 teams! Shortly after, the team went on to beat NYU and Yale in the National Appellate Advocacy Competition. Its no coincidence that following this newsworthy upset, UNT’s appellate advocacy program propelled to rank 13th in the nation.
Tune in with Sai Pratt and Alexis Kane for a conversation with this stellar team as they breakdown what it takes to prepare for a competition and excel on the national level.
-Esteban Valdez
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law
30 Jan 2026
Episode 9: Behind the Bench w/ Judge Tonya Parker
Gavel in to the 116th Civil District Court with the Honorable Judge Tonya Parker! As she takes us behind the bench, we’ll dive into what life on and off the bench really looks like. You’ll hear her candid insights on leadership, justice, and serving the community she calls home. So … if you’re ready to be inspired by a local leader’s perspective, this episode is for you!
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law
-Alexis Kane
9 Nov 2025
Episode 8: Advocacy Across the Pond
Travel with three UNT Dallas College of Law students all the way across the pond in Scotland.
TODAY, Per Say’s Creative Director Madison Coplen sits down with Cameron McClure, Grace Mulkey, and Katelyn Mitchell to learn about Baylor’s Academy of the Advocate at St Andrews. Feel free to grab a dram of whisky and a seat to hear all about their studies, experiences and some advice for our fellow advocates.
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law.
- Madison Coplen
23 Apr 2025
Episode 7: Bring On the Advocacy
Soo wib wumpa, yib yomp zif doo wib. (If you know, you know)
In this episode, we “B”ring “O”n “T”he “A”dvocacy and talk everything “B”oard “O”f “A”dvocates (see what we did there). Because it takes a team to survive at the advocacy-competition podium; the Board of Advocates has your back!
First up is the Executive Board of the UNT Dallas BOA. Have they planned internal moot court and mock trial competitions? Yes. Have they competed successfully themselves? Yes. Do they play The Sims? Maybe? We didn’t ask, but either way, don’t hold it against them.
We’re also hearing from Professor Allie Van Stean and Professor Wes Moore. Prof. Van Stean is the director of advocacy competitions at UNT Dallas, and Prof. Moore is a long-time mock trial coach . . . so they know a thing or two! From baking cookies to team strategy, Professors Van Stean and Moore are here to give you the scoop on advocacy competitions. What’s the relevance of “baking cookies,” you ask? Why would I tell you in this episode description! Listen to find out!
Finally, our shining student org spotlight today is the Criminal Law Society.
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our theme music is produced by Sway Wassup.
31 Mar 2025
Episode 6: Straight Outta Appeals: Distinguishing Trial & Appellate Practice
Brief writing vs. preparing for depositions? Becoming a court of appeals justice vs. building a thriving trial practice? YOU ARE NOW ABOUT TO WITNESS the difference between appellate and trial law.
TODAY, we’re talking the tips and tricks of the trade in trial and appellate law, how they differ, and what the very best do to be successful in their practice.
Per Say chair Garrett Littlejohn sits down with Dallas plaintiff’s attorney Rob Miller of Miller Copeland, L.L.P. to learn how the best trial lawyers maximize their success. AND LATER, Garrett is joined by Per Say’s Rian Nealon to interview former Justice of the Texas 5th Court of Appeals Douglas Lang, talking everything from brief writing and appellate strategy.
Our student org spotlight on this episode is the American Constitution Society.
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our theme music is produced by Sway Wassup.
2 Mar 2025
Episode 5: Stress Management Gets 3 Big Booms
In the immortal words of Taylor Swift: “I’ve learned the lesson that stressin’ and obsessin’ about [the practice of law] is no fun, and [exams] and [deadlines] never broke my bones”… or something like that.
TODAY, Per Say team member Madison Coplen interviews Professor Aryele Maye of the UNT Dallas College of Law—Academic Success and Bar Readiness aficionado—about managing stress in law school and beyond, so you can bring the boom without blowing a gasket.
PLUS, Per Say team members Seiako Shaw and Michael Alcala ask UNT Dallas law students the important—and aggressively punny—questions about how they chill out. Stress ball bowling, anyone?
Our student org spotlight this time around is the Asian Pacific American Law Student Association.
2 Nov 2024
Episode 4: Are You Ok?
In a 2023 survey of nearly 3,000 attorneys, over 38% said they were depressed. [1]. A third felt “helpless, trapped, detached, or alone in the world.” [2]. 15% knew someone in the legal profession would died by suicide in the past two years. [3].
In the words of our guest today, Dallas criminal defense attorney and mental-health advocate Terry Hill: “WE HAVE TO STOP MINDING OUR OWN BUSINESS.”
Our student org spotlight is the Sports and Entertainment Law Student Association.
If you or someone you know is experiencing a mental health crisis, the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is available 24/7 and be contacted by dialing or texting 988.
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our theme music is produced by Sway Wassup.
[1] [2] [3] Dan Roe, ‘There’s a Lot of Backlog to Address’: Why Mental Health in the Legal Profession is Getting Worse, THE AMERICAN LAWYER (May 18, 2023).
16 Sept 2024
Episode 3: IRAC City
This time, the Per Say squad gets on the beat to reminisce on a job (mostly) well done taking law school exams, while Garrett struggles to come up with a name for the attorney-interview segment. Regardless of what we call it, we’re positive you will enjoy hearing from Ashana Stanley on how she conquered the Bar—and what future takers can learn from her experience studying, managing relationships, persevering, and more!
Ashana Stanley is an associate Attorney at Anozie, LLP, and a graduate of Texas A&M University School of Law (Whoop!).
Our student org spotlight is on the wonderful HLSA (Hispanic Law Students Association).
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our theme music is produced by Sway Wassup.
31 May 2024
Episode 2: How To Lose A Trial In 10 Ways
On our long-awaited second episode, LaDyrian asserts mock trial supremacy. If moot court is the Final Fantasy Tactics of law school advocacy (niche, nuanced, xp grind), mock trial is Super Mario Wonder (zany, fun, crowd-pleaser). This one is for the theater kids, cross-exam assassins, and anyone who heard “fifty-page appellate brief” and thought "I ain’t writing all that."
Two of our advocacy teams share their recent mock trial competition experiences, marveling at one witness’s Oscar-worthy performance. Special guest Lauren Black discusses the roller coaster ride of trying a case, and why even the most experienced trial attorneys still get the nervous butterflies.
Lauren Black is the Deputy Administrator of Bureau B at the Dallas County District Attorney’s Office. She is an Adjunct Professor and Mock Trial Coach at UNT Dallas College of Law; she also teaches a Criminal Law Boot Camp course at Baylor Law.
Our student org spotlight is on BLSA (Black Law Students Association).
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our theme music is produced by Sway Wassup.
19 Apr 2024
Episode 1: Panic! At the Podium
On this inaugural episode, we address the crucial questions, like: why does this podcast even exist? Who asked for this? And why is moot court the absolute best thing you can do in law school?
Two of our moot court travel teams discuss their recent competition (and water slide) experiences.
Special guests Nicole Williams and Kamran Anwar explain how the moot court experience translates to real world practice, and what it really takes to please the court.
Nicole is the Managing Partner of Thompson Coburn’s Dallas office; she is also an Adjunct Professor and Head Coach of Advocacy Teams at UNT Dallas College of Law. Kamran is a litigation associate at Thompson Coburn, a College of Law graduate, and Coach of Advocacy Teams here as well.
Our student org spotlight is on WLSA (Women's Law Student Association).
Per Say is brought to you by the Board of Advocates at UNT Dallas College of Law. Our theme music is produced by Sway Wassup.
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Apple Podcasts (US)
5.0 / 5
4 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 18 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
22
Social presence
0
YouTube
0
Engagement
32
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