Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

About Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

Podcasts By Donna Jodhan feature a variety of audio podcasts that focus on the future of children, particularly those with disabilities. As a blind advocate and entrepreneur, Donna shares her insights, life experiences, and advocacy efforts, aiming to inspire and inform her listeners. Her podcasts cover issues such as accessibility, inclusivity, and breaking down barriers in technology and everyday life, encouraging collective efforts to create a better and more equitable future for all children.

Publisher

Donna J. Jodhan

Category

news · news

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

1 Jan 2024

Latest episode

14 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

311 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   14 Oct 2026

   Remarkable World Commentary Episode #117: Interview with Joel Snyder, President, Audio Description Associates, LLC

   🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #117: Interview with Joel Snyder, President, Audio Description Associates, LLC https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-10-14-2026/ (https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-10-14-2026/) In this illuminating episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan welcomes Joel Snyder, who takes listeners back to his years as a volunteer reader at the Metropolitan Washington Ear and explains how audio description began. Joel credits Dr. Margaret Pfanstiehl, the blind founder of the Washington Ear, and Chet Avery, a blind man at the Department of Education, with the idea that grew into the first professionally described theater production, Major Barbara at Arena Stage in the summer of 1981, and he credits Gregory Frazier, whose San Francisco master's thesis he says was the first published work on the subject. He traces description from live theater to television with WGBH, then to DVDs, movie theaters and streaming services, and points listeners to the American Council of the Blind's Audio Description Project at https://adp.acb.org (https://adp.acb.org). Donna and Joel also talk about how his training as an actor shapes his teaching, with observation as the first of his four fundamentals of audio description, and why he says the best compliment a describer can get is "I forgot you were there." Joel looks back on his 20 years at the National Endowment for the Arts and his work describing Sesame Street at the National Captioning Institute, and he shares the stories of a blind mother following Sesame Street with her children and a young blind girl who asked Fred Rogers to say aloud when he fed his fish. Looking ahead, he predicts description built into productions from the start and delivered through smartphone apps, and he mentions his book, The Visual Made Verbal, which he says is now in print in seven languages. TRANSCRIPT Podcast Commentator: [upbeat digital music] Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access, technology, and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Remarkable World Commentary. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch, and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November of 2010, I won the landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was tremendously humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal, and that is to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience, and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I am pleased and I am tremendously privileged to welcome Joel Snyder to our Remarkable World Commentary podcast for today. Welcome, Joel. Joel Snyder: Thank you, Donna. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be with you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. So let's get right into things then. Joel, long before anyone called this a profession, you were a volunteer reader at the Metropolitan Washington Ear reading the Sunday Washington Post aloud. Joel Snyder: [laughs] That's right, for about 10 years. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, and somewhere in there you started describing the comics the way Mayor La Guardia once did on the radio. I want you to take me back to that studio. What made you start describing the pictures instead of just reading the words? Joel Snyder: [laughs] Well, in the '70s, indeed I was a volunteer for the Metropolitan Washington Ear, a radio reading service. And volunteers took turns reading different newspapers and magazine articles and short stories and that sort of thing for this radio reading service on a frequency that was accessible via a particular receiver that people who are blind primarily used. And it was great fun, a great learning experience for me as a young voice talent and actor and such. Joel Snyder: And it really occurred to all of us as we're reading newspapers, newspapers are chock-full of photographs and graphic advertisements and such, and if we're gonna make the newspaper accessible, we can't just read the text, just like Mayor La Guardia did in the '40s. He was reading the comics to the people of New York City. Couldn't just read the text. You gotta describe the images. Joel Snyder: And all of us as volunteers there were not struggling with it really, but we realized that that's certainly something we needed to do. But there was no kind of best practices or guidelines of standards for doing description. We just did it. People have been describing things since prehistoric times. Joel Snyder: But it was a little bit later, in about 1980, when the woman who founded the Washington Ear, its director, Dr. Margaret Pfanstiehl, a blind woman, she was on a committee at Arena Stage, the professional repertory theater in Washington, DC. A committee to advise them on accessibility, which in 1980, that wasn't done very often. But they had convened the committee partly on the occasion of having installed an assisted listening system. So yeah, also very new. They're ubiquitous now, but this was their installed, to help people who had hearing loss hear what's going on. Joel Snyder: Well, Margaret was on that committee, a blind woman, along with another gentleman from the Department of Education, Chet Avery, a blind man, and both of them thought this system was wonderful, but they also both wondered, "Well, gee, what do you have for us? We're blind. We don't have hearing." Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my goodness. Joel Snyder: So they theorized as they learned about the system, it's just a microphone on a stage and that connects to some sort of transmitter, and the sound is received by people wearing headsets in the audience. You can crank up the volume. Joel Snyder: So they wondered if, well, if it's just a microphone on stage, maybe you could have two channels and the second channel could be used by a person with a second microphone. Why couldn't that happen? Maybe somebody off stage, maybe using the pauses in between bits and pieces of dialogue or critical sound elements, just let us know what's going on. What action in particular. But of course, there might be description of facial expressions, the settings, costumes and such as time allows. Joel Snyder: And at the stage, they thought, "Well, gee, we've never heard of that before." And Margaret and Chet both felt like, "Well, yeah, we haven't heard it before either. We just made it up." But could it work possibly? And so Arena Stage agreed and said, "Well, Margaret, you've got a radio station. Maybe you can get some folks together and figure out how we would do this." Joel Snyder: And Margaret grabbed me, I was already an English teacher and professional actor and voice talent, and a couple of others, and we began to hammer this out. What would we even call it? Well, it's an aural experience. Audio, audio description. That's what we'll do. Joel Snyder: And we worked on it for about a year, and in the summer of 1981, the very first professional theater presentation with audio description debuted. Major Barbara, the play by Shaw, at Arena Stage with audio description. And I should add quickly, though, that the idea of doing this as a service accompanying a dramatic production or a film or video occurred to a fellow in San Francisco, to Gregory Frazier, in the mid-1970s. He did a master's thesis on this topic. Joel Snyder: He had a good friend who was blind, and I think he was a little tired of always having to describe movies to his friend. And he thought, "This should just be something available." He wrote a master's thesis called An All Audio Adaptation of the Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman, a great film with Cicely Tyson. And so that was his master's thesis back in, I think it was '78, '77. Joel Snyder: And in mid-'80s, he went on to develop a service just like we had in Washington, but this is in San Francisco, a service called AudioVision doing description for live performance. And both of the services are still around and doing description at different kinds of performing arts events, especially dance, theater, opera. And then it went on from there. Joel Snyder: 1985, we collaborated with WGBH in Boston to actually start doing this for television. We did a pilot for them, which was very successful. I actually wrote and voiced three of the very first television programs ever broadcast in this country, certainly, with audio description. So then it began to get publicized and took off from there. It took a little while to start getting it on DVDs, or actually first came VHS videotape. [laughs] Remember those? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes. Joel Snyder: Which was not the ideal format because you couldn't turn it on or off. You either had it on that tape, but with DVDs, you could turn it on and off, that sort of thing. And then it started bubbling around on television and our FCC started considering whether that this should be joined with captioning, for instance. Captioning was already required on broadcast television. So that started to bubble, and movie theaters started to realize that they needed to make their presentations accessible. Joel Snyder: But the movie theater itself, they're just showing movies from Hollywood. So Hollywood needed to start thinking about doing captioning and doing audio description so that now just about every feature film that comes out has an audio description track. We've come a long way. And then finally streaming came about more recently. And it took some persuading, but now Netflix, Amazon, Disney, others who stream, who have these streaming services for entertainment, they're doing it in 12, 15 languages around the world. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Whoa. Joel Snyder: Yeah. So in a nutshell, that's kind of the recent history of audio description [laughs] in the United States. Canada has been a real player though as well. In fact, well, I remember there was a group called AudioVision Canada that I think morphed into, graduated into other services in Canada, but they actually experimented with taking public domain films, just dubbing out from the film just the audio track and then mixing it with audio description. And they started issuing audio cassettes that were audio films, essentially, which I still have a few of them. Joel Snyder: It didn't go very far. It wasn't marketed perhaps as well as it could be, but I'm still trying to convince Hollywood to— They own the description. They own the films. Why not issue audio versions of the film with audio description? And you have an audio film that I think would sell to sighted people who wanna re-experience a film in their car or at the theater. So that's on the horizon, hopefully. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Whoa. What a whirlwind journey for you, huh? Joel Snyder: And there you go. It's true. It's true. I've been working with it now almost 46 years. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, in the summer of 1981 at Arena Stage in Washington is the moment that field usually points to Margaret, okay? Joel Snyder: Right, Margaret Pfanstiehl. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Pfanstiehl. And Chet Avery. Joel Snyder: Yes. That's right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? An assistant listening system meant for hard of hearing patrons. And a production of Major Barbara. You were in the room. Tell our listeners what actually happened. And what it felt like to be doing something nobody had a name for as yet. Tell us. Joel Snyder: That's right. Well, I guess we didn't really know that we were doing something that was groundbreaking or that would expand or— We just wanted to try it with theater, and we did. And it worked out pretty well. Radio reading services, pretty much all of them follow a volunteer model. Like I said, I was a volunteer reader. Joel Snyder: And the description for performing arts basically assumed that model, so that volunteers would develop the description based on a couple of viewings, two or three viewings of a play. And then at certain performances, maybe one or two performances out of a six-week run, we would provide the audio description. And it was, again, volunteer based. You didn't wanna have to charge the theaters much, if anything at all. Joel Snyder: And you're using volunteers, so you can't really say, "Well, we need you to be at every performance and be available and all of that." And that's changing a little bit because I think people who are blind have a right to access any and every performance of a performing arts piece. They should be able to go up to the box office and say, "I'd like a ticket for tonight. Oh, I need the audio description, please." And be able to access it. So there are different ways to try to accomplish that and we're working on that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Interesting. Now, you are very often introduced as the father of audio description. But yet in your own tellings, you consistently hand the credit to Dr. Margaret Pfanstiehl? Joel Snyder: Oh, Pfanstiehl. Absolutely. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: A blind woman. Joel Snyder: That's right. Listen, description is not just for blind people. It's by blind people. It was developed by Margaret. In fact, nowadays with media, some of the best quality control consultants are people who are blind, who know audio description. They contribute to the writing of the description. Some of the best voice talents are people who are totally blind. And some of the best audio editors are people who are totally blind. So— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Really? Joel Snyder: It's absolutely critical that it be understood as an activity that folks who are blind are very much a part of. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, why does it matter so much to you that the record shows a blind woman at the origin of this field? Joel Snyder: Well, that is the fact of the matter. [laughs] I wasn't on the committee at Arena Stage. Chet Avery is sometimes overlooked a little bit. It wasn't called the Department of Education in those days. I think it was Health and Human Services, something like that. But he was actually a blind man overseeing funding for captioning. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh my Lord. Joel Snyder: He had the idea back in the '60s really, what if we had, he called it audio captions for film or television that would clue people into what's going on. People who are blind primarily. Other populations benefit as well. And the idea just never took hold. In fact, there were some folks in the blind community who would say, "Well, we don't really need that. That would be a crutch. We will not have to depend on that. We can get along just listening to the audio. And what's more important is having initiatives that will build employment for blind people," which my goodness, is certainly true. Joel Snyder: But other things other than the arts or television, we're getting on fine with it. Most blind people watch, quote unquote, television by listening to what's going on, and so much is communicated by sound. We don't need it. And— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: New notification from Audible. Joel Snyder: Thank goodness, and there are still some organizations and folks certainly in this country who still feel a little bit like, "Eh, it's not a priority. It's a nice thing to have." But certainly the American Council of the Blind here has been a real advocate and supporter for audio description. Joel Snyder: About 17 years ago, I worked with them to found the Audio Description Project, which is an initiative ACB. And we have a website that lists everything that we know of that's described, museums, theaters, every film, every television show. And we have, oh golly, we have contests for blind kids, where they write reviews of the described videos. We have conferences and awards and training institutes. So it's grown a great deal. Joel Snyder: But if I may, the website is simply ADP, Audio Description Project, https://adp.acb.org. Yeah, https://adp.acb.org. And really, everything you wanted to know about audio description is there. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Oh my God. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, you also go out of your way to credit Gregory Frazier, who was writing about all audio adaptation, San Francisco stage, back in the mid-1970s, and went on to build AudioVision. Most people have never heard his name. Joel Snyder: Yeah, I think he wrote— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But why do you keep saying it? And what did his lineage on the West Coast contribute that the Washington story alone doesn't capture? Joel Snyder: Well, he was the first. He did, as I say, a master's thesis. He was the first person to really sit down on paper and publish ideas about the act and the art of audio description. Joel Snyder: And I have my own PhD that is focused on audio description, where it's— In Europe, it's studied, and master's degrees and PhDs are obtainable because it's a kind of audiovisual translation. And really in this country, in the world, as far as I know, and I wrote a book about this, The Visual Made Verbal, as far as I know, Gregory was the first to actually publish something that referenced what we call now as audio description. Joel Snyder: Gregory wasn't all that involved with its development on television and film, because he— Well, he was in San Francisco, and of course so much film comes out of Los Angeles. And it was really the brainchild of WGBH in Boston, where they heard about what we were doing, and they realized that with broadcast television, even back in analog days, there was a secondary audio program feature with stereo televisions, SAP. Joel Snyder: And that would be the ideal way to transmit this second audio track. It was there for Spanish translation. And even today, most usually on weekends with sports events, you'll hear Spanish translation, which means you will not hear description. [laughs] Joel Snyder: And you would think in this day and age, with everything digital, technically there's capacity to have a dozen different audio tracks, but it just hasn't happened yet. So that's another goal for us because there should be— There's room to have audio description in English, audio description in Spanish, translation in Spanish, and other languages as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Ring. Woo. Joel Snyder: Yeah. Lots of stuff going on. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, what I didn't know until I was prepping for this interview is that you have been an actor since you were about seven years old. Joel Snyder: Oh, goodness. Yeah. [laughs] Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you still perform. Joel Snyder: Yeah. Yeah, no, I— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I want to ask you about the craft rather than the policy for a moment. Joel Snyder: Ah, thank you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What does training as a performer give a describer that no amount of writing skills can substitute? Four. Tell me. Joel Snyder: Yeah, that is great. Thank you, Donna, for mentioning that. I've been a equity member, Actors' Equity Association for over 50 years. I train describers all around the world, some 60 countries now, and most of the United States. Canada, of course. I'm probably the only person offering training who hearkens back to training for actors. There's a classic text called The First Six Lessons of Acting by Richard Boleslavsky. And two of those lessons are concentration and observation. Joel Snyder: And I developed what I teach and in my book, the four fundamentals of audio description, and observation is the first one. An audio describer has to observe, has to be an active seer, one who sees. And so does an actor, because you're reproducing on stage what you've observed around the world. And you only do that to the extent that you're able to really concentrate on what is out there. So I trace this right back to acting training. Joel Snyder: And then of course, audio description, 99% of it is voiced aloud. So it's helpful to be able to voice in a way that makes meaning, makes it clear, makes it understandable and clear. So those skills come into play as well. Now some people, [laughs] some people, Donna, will say, "Oh, I have a friend who's an actor. He's got a beautiful voice. He'd be a great audio describer." Joel Snyder: And maybe he would, but audio describing is about the crafting of the language. And then it has to be voiced, and that's a voice talent or a narrator, if you will. Or some people say they're performing the audio description. I shy away from that word, really, because the best compliment an audio description— after a performance at a live theater, best compliment that the describer can get is, "I forgot you were there." You know? Joel Snyder: For live theater, it's almost always the same person who crafts the description is voicing it. In movies, it's different. In movies, it's described somewhere and then it's voiced somewhere else, that sort of thing. But actors wanna be in the spotlight. Goodness, I know that. Joel Snyder: And when you voice audio description, again, I think the point is to disappear. The consumer gets everything, but forgets that you were there because nobody goes to a play or a film to hear the audio describer. They experience the film or the play. And our job is to, with the writing and with the voicing, to be inconspicuous, to be in consonance with what's going on. But don't— You're not in the play, you're not in the movie, you are of the play, of the movie. And that's the distinction that I think is important. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, I wrote three seasons of The Detective DJ and the Crime Crushers. Joel Snyder: Oh my goodness. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I commentated it. I audioed it. I did everything for it. Joel Snyder: Fantastic. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm [laughs] fairly sure it could've been made better if I had known you at that time, [laughs] you know? Joel Snyder: [laughs] We'd be a great team, that's right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah. So you spent 20 years at the National Endowment for the Arts from 1982 to 2002, and you served as acting director of its Inter-Arts Program. Joel Snyder: Inter-Arts Program, that's right. With— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: More than once. Joel Snyder: What they called presenting program, et cetera. Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, what did two decades inside a federal arts agency teach you about how change actually happens in large institutions, and did it make you more patient or less patient? Be honest. [laughs] Joel Snyder: Well, the period that I was there, '82 to '02, was oftentimes referred, at least certainly the '90s, referred to as the culture wars. And we had congressmen really trying to defund the NEA because they felt we were funding things that were not part of the mainstream and that that should be our mission. And I, of course, and others felt like, well, no, that's what the commercial sector does. Funding should be about the art form and what's advancing the art form, not necessarily what's commercial. So we went through that certainly, and still going through that really. Joel Snyder: And unfortunately, the Arts Endowment is a shell of its former self these days. But it was quite a ride for about 20 years, and that's how I earned the bulk of my living. I was also doing acting, but I didn't make a living in audio description until 2002, when I left the Endowment, and have ever since, which is just great. Joel Snyder: But the Endowment— Everybody in a country, I think, has the right to access culture. And I think every theater, every orchestra, every dance company, et cetera, has the right to be as inclusive as possible. And that doesn't necessarily make money. For those entities. So funding by government sources, by corporations and foundations, by individuals is so important. Joel Snyder: And indeed the services themselves that help build inclusivity like audio description, like captioning, like sign language interpretation, those services I think are appropriate for public funding, and funding from the other sources as well certainly. But it's a bit of a slog, especially these days, certainly in the United States where there's been a bit of an emphasis on cutting back services and government funds. I think Canada's in a better way these days, certainly. Joel Snyder: And you have a Ministry of Culture, whereas we have— the comparable agency is the National Endowment for the Arts. But most countries in Europe have a Ministry of Culture that functions in the same way, providing some funding. The difference in America, and this is an important one, is that our tax structure allows for contributions from individuals and corporations. When an individual contributes to an arts organization that is officially a non-profit organization or in other countries referred to as an NGO, when anybody contributes, they're able to take credit for that off their taxes. Joel Snyder: And that's a big incentive and certainly results in funding far greater than the modest budget of the NEA. And there are also, I believe all 50 states have a state arts agency. And indeed, I'm in the State of Maryland and served on the Maryland State Arts Council for two years. And they also play an important role with state government money primarily. They get money from the National Endowment for the Arts as well. And there are local arts agencies that also are part of that distribution mechanism. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This is all so new to me and very interesting, you know. But when you left the NEA and went straight into building described media program at the Na— Joel Snyder: Right, at National Captioning Institute. That's right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah. And description started reaching national television, including Sesame Street. Joel Snyder: That's it. [laughs] Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What was it like moving from describing a live stage to describing broadcast media? And what did you have to unlearn, as they would say? Joel Snyder: Well, I always thought that description will not really take off until it's in media, until it's on television and with movies and such. And that has proved to be true. Yeah, we were the first folks to provide description for Sesame Street. And I must say back in those days in the 2000s, and still today actually, the federal government does provide some funding for the description on television for educational media. Joel Snyder: And we used that funding to offer audio description, for instance, to the Children's Television Workshop that produced Sesame Street. And that was great fun to do, and it still is being described and captioned as well. And it's important, as I mentioned, little kids who are blind or have low vision benefit a great deal from that. Joel Snyder: In fact, a quick story, Donna. When I was doing Sesame Street, we got a letter from a 45-year-old blind woman who wanted to compliment us on Sesame Street. And I thought, "Well, that's— It's nice, but that program's for three to five-year-olds." Well, it turns out that she was congenitally blind. And she loved Sesame Street when she was a child just listening to the funny voices and the music and the sounds and such. Joel Snyder: Well, now she was moved to write to us because she had two sighted children. And she could for the first time follow along with her kids the antics of Bert and Ernie and Elmo and all the other denizens of Sesame Street. So that was really a heartwarming letter we received from a blind woman, as I say. Joel Snyder: And there's the other story too, that you may have heard, another program that was really right up there almost as popular as Sesame Street, but Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. Have you heard of that one? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes, I have. Joel Snyder: Fred Rogers, which, just a wonderful program, very different than Sesame Street, but much beloved. And there's a reason why Fred Rogers would always out loud say when he was feeding his fish on his little living room set there. He got a letter from a five-year-old blind girl, Cathy, who said, "Would you do that, please? Because I can't see if you're feeding your fish, and I really wanna know that the fish are being taken care of." Joel Snyder: And the papa added a note, said, "Yes, Cathy is blind, and she really does cry if you don't say you are feeding the fish." So Fred Rogers added in a little bit of description, kind of built it into the show, which is wonderful, in honor of this child who wrote to him. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. I wonder if you ever thought of doing, or maybe you have, doing any audio description for one of my favorite shows growing up, The Flintstones. Did you? Joel Snyder: That's great. No, I haven't. I've done various cartoon shows. Animated programs. Not The Flintstones, though. Joel Snyder: Another one that I would love to hear described, I was always a big fan of the Rocky and Bullwinkle show. And [laughs] in fact, I even went to them at one point, the people that own the show now, and said, "I'll do it for free. You know? Let's figure out a way to get description." And that never happened. And The Flintstones, it may have description. I don't know. I've never done it. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I've never heard of it either, but that was my favorite cartoon growing up. Joel Snyder: Sure. Sure. Absolutely. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What would it sound like for you to describe the antics of Fred and Barney and Wilma and Betty? Joel Snyder: Well, so much is happening visually there. Right from their clothes. Kind of cave people clothes. Kind of animal hide basically, but with color and designs and such. And then there's the car that they used to use. Which was a human-powered car. They were puttering along by just using their legs basically, cranking the car. Funny things like that. And then there was their pet Dino— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Dino and Bamm-Bamm and— Joel Snyder: Bamm-Bamm the child. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Fred's apples. Joel Snyder: That's right. Lots of great things that could be described there, and made more vivid, more meaningful for kids. Joel Snyder: The soundtracks are great, and blind people grow up listening to soundtracks of shows. And oftentimes description is compared to radio theater, and I understand that comparison, although radio theater assumes everybody is blind and we have to fill in the visual with sound effects. So they don't narrate those actions. You hear footsteps and so you know somebody's walking, for instance. Joel Snyder: So I sort of liken audio description perhaps to really high quality sports play-by-play on radio. Some radio commentators are just brilliant. They're just born describers. And they have to be. Nobody's seeing anything. They're broadcasting on the radio. So yeah, I think that's probably an even more apt comparison. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: As a ice hockey enthusiast, I always marveled at how these guys on the radio— And I could picture myself actually being rink-side, you know? Oh, my lord. Joel Snyder: Well, a not so widely known story is about former President Ronald Reagan. He began as a sports announcer in Illinois. And there is the story about his broadcasting play-by-play for a baseball game going on in New York City, and he was in Illinois. Joel Snyder: So he was getting on a ticker tape information about what was going on. Ball one, strike one. Foul ball. And he would take that data without seeing the game. He would describe a game. He would just make it up and very imaginatively create the game with words. Even though he wasn't seeing the game [laughs] he just had the raw data essentially. So no matter what you may think of Mr. Reagan's politics, he was an imaginative broadcaster early in his career. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I agree with you. I mean, I did follow some of his politics, but I think this is another new disclosure that I never knew about Mr. Reagan. Wow. Joel Snyder: Well, I mention that in my book. If I may do a little plug, The Visual Made Verbal: A Comprehensive Training Manual and Guide to the History and Applications of Audio Description. And I'm quite proud that it's available in braille. It's available in two different audiobook versions. And it's now in print in seven languages with eighth one on the way. So it's a little dated. It's time for a second edition, I think. It's about 13 years old. But that's a project for me. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, the clock is telling me it's almost time to go. But I wanted to ask you, give me some predictions as to what the future would be for audio description. What can I look forward to, as an adult especially? But I have a kid's heart, too, you know? Yeah. Tell us. Tell our listeners. Joel Snyder: Well, I guess a couple of things. I look forward to having audio description be incorporated within productions from the very beginning. Having, in different ways. Perhaps a playwright can write a script so that it's descriptive as you go along. And you don't have to add description to it. Or maybe a describer is embedded within the cast and provides description on stage or develops a script and is available to voice it at every performance, something like that. Joel Snyder: I would steer your listeners to Stevie Wonder's music video, So What the Fuss. When he wrote that song and then of course as folks did, I guess still today, make a music video of the song. Well, he decided that's gonna be described, you know? And I cannot experience that song without listening to his friend Busta Rhymes, a rapper, voice the description that Stevie Wonder and WGBH wrote for the thing. You can find it easily on the internet. So What the Fuss by Stevie Wonder. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: My Lord. [laughs] Joel Snyder: Oh, it's a great piece. And then the other thing in particular is about the transmission of audio description. In live theater and in movie theaters, and even at home, I think the smartphone is gonna become central to the transmission of audio description. Already, for film, and if that film is on television, there are about a half dozen apps available around the world that you can download to your phone, and then you download to that app the audio description track for a film. Joel Snyder: So if you're in the movie theater or you're at home and the movie comes on, you click that app on, start play, and the app listens to the original soundtrack coming from your television or in the movie theater and will automatically feed to you through your own earbuds the audio description. So you could be doing it at home and your family doesn't need to hear the audio description, but you're getting it, you know? And you can use your own smartphone, your own earbuds in the movie theater. You don't have to be worrying about the movie theater maintaining equipment, that kind of thing. That will become more ubiquitous I think. Joel Snyder: And in live theater it's very rare, live events, but that's coming along as well. I've been working with a software company in Salzburg, Austria, called LiveVoice, and that needs to happen in live settings more often. So I see that on the horizon as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Joel, it has been a pleasure having you. Joel Snyder: Oh, thank you, Donna. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I mean it. I've learned so much in the last few minutes. I'd like to offer you also the opportunity to write a brief article or a blog or an editor, whatever you want to call it. It's all about my trying to promote how different people are breaking down barriers. Joel Snyder: Okay, great. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And what I will do, I will not edit your article or your blog or whatever, but I will simply post it to our website and we circulate it. Joel Snyder: Wonderful. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I will be sending you an invitation in the next week or so. Interested? Joel Snyder: Oh, I would be happy to. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, we thought. Okay. Joel Snyder: Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, and when is your podcast made available and how can folks— So I wanna get the word out about the podcast. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, yeah. This is prerecorded and my associate Aaron Di Blasi, he takes care of all the editing and all the technical stuff. And I think within a few days you will receive notification that it's out there, and it is circulated to thousands and thousands of global listeners. Joel Snyder: Oh, perfect. Perfect. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So not to worry. [laughs] Joel Snyder: Well, I will try and spread the word from this end as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I appreciate it and I enjoyed this podcast 'cause I learned something new. Joel Snyder: Oh, thank you, Donna. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and an honor to be with you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You're very welcome. Thank you, Joel. And you take care. And look, wait for my invitation. Joel Snyder: Oh, I'm looking forward to it. You bet. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, Joel. Take care. Joel Snyder: Thanks, Donna. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Bye-bye now. [upbeat music] Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time. [upbeat music]

2. 

   13 Oct 2026

   Remarkable World Commentary Episode #116: Interview with Jerry Nicholson, Co-Founder, Accessible Data

   🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #116: Interview with Jerry Nicholson, Co-Founder, Accessible Data https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-10-13-2026/ (https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-10-13-2026/) In this inspiring episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan welcomes Jerry Nicholson, co-founder of Accessible Data, from the UK. Jerry traces his path from studying geography at the University of Edinburgh and qualifying as a chartered accountant to moving to Bangladesh with his wife, Fiona, after the two of them read Muhammad Yunus's Banker to the Poor. There they set up Tindercapital to bring early stage venture capital to businesses that could scale, invested in the eco-friendly manufacturer Oasis Coffins, and ran Open Accelerator for rural entrepreneurs. Jerry speaks openly about how hard that first investment was, including a breakdown just before COVID that he says he has fully recovered from. Jerry then explains how the platform he and his business partner, Christophe Geiser, built under the name Preignition became an accessible survey tool after the International Disability Alliance found that many of its members could not fill in its global survey and put out an open call. Jerry describes the barriers people face with online forms, from keyboard navigation to sign language and Easy Read needs, and why forms that shut disabled people out leave them unheard and leave organizations with biased data. Donna presses the point that organizations too often collect lived experience for free, Jerry says a paid panel of disabled respondents could be a future product, and Donna closes by inviting him to write an article for https://barrierfreecanada.org (https://barrierfreecanada.org). TRANSCRIPT Podcast Commentator: [upbeat music] Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Remarkable World Commentary. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch, and amongst other things, stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster, who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Everything I do circles one goal, and that is to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I am pleased and privileged to welcome Jerry Nicholson all the way across the pond in the UK. Hello, Jerry, and welcome to my podcast. Jerry Nicholson: Hi, Donna, and it's a pleasure to be speaking with you today. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Great. So what's the weather like in the UK at the present time? Jerry Nicholson: Well, the weather in the UK constantly changes, so— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [laughs] Jerry Nicholson: It was rainy this morning, but it's now beautiful outside. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. Jerry Nicholson: Big blue skies with a few fluffy white clouds. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, nice. Nice. So Jerry, welcome to the Remarkable World Commentary. I always like to begin at the very beginning. So tell us about your early path from studying geography at the University of Edinburgh to qualifying as a chartered accountant with the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland. Back then, what did you imagine that your life's work would be? Jerry Nicholson: Oh, that's a good question, Donna. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [laughs] Jerry Nicholson: [laughs] Yeah, I think I left university with just, I suppose, a desire to do something meaningful with my work. So more than just make money and live comfortably. But to actually do something that had purpose at the center of it. But I've also always been quite interested in business and making things commercial. So I suppose that's what drove me to study accountancy. Not as an end in itself, but just feeling that that would be a useful thing to learn a bit about finance and how businesses worked, to see what would then open up at the end of that. So in many, many respects, my time training as an accountant was a bit like a continuation of my education. So I would say that I really started pursuing my work journey when I was 30. So after qualifying as a chartered accountant and spending times with PwC and Ernst & Young— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [instrumental music] Now, at around 2010, you and your wife, Fiona, moved from the United Kingdom to Dhaka, Bangladesh. A move in, I understand, was sparked by... Sorry, it was sparked by reading Muhammad Yunus on microfinance. What drew you there, and what did those users teach you about who gets included and who gets left out when important decisions are made? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: A loaded question, so I— Jerry Nicholson: Yeah, no, it's a good question. Yeah, so I suppose I first went to Bangladesh with Fiona shortly after we got married, and I had qualified as a chartered accountant. And a bit like I was saying previously, Donna, I'd always gone into accountancy as a means to an end. So we're really just asking those questions, "Well, what are we gonna do with our lives?" And particularly, "How's our work gonna fit into that?" So in 2000 and... I think it was probably 2004, 2005, Fi and I, we spent a year traveling, and we spent a bit of time in a country called Tajikistan in Central Asia. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay. Jerry Nicholson: And then we did a big trip starting in Cambodia and working— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Jerry Nicholson: Our way over land back to the UK. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Ooh. Jerry Nicholson: And we were meeting up with lots of different people who were doing interesting things and using business and finance to create opportunities. And as part of that trip, we passed through Bangladesh. We'd both read Muhammad Yunus's book, Banker to the Poor, and had read about microfinance and this idea of financial institutions lending people with very limited means really quite small amounts of money, so maybe $50 or $100, which would enable them to— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Maybe buy a sewing machine or buy a cow, some sort of small income-generating asset, and then that would then provide some additional revenue for the family. And this was an idea that seemed quite interesting to us. So we actually spent about three weeks in Bangladesh and had the pleasure of meeting Professor Muhammad Yunus, who is incredible, a incredibly humble man and a great leader. And that was a wonderful time. But as part of that trip, one of the things we thought was, well, microfinance has a role. It also has its critics, which I agree with some of the criticism of the microfinance model, but I think it definitely has a part to play. But Fi and I then started thinking, well, really microfinance is very widely provided, particularly in a country like Bangladesh, so it doesn't need more microfinance. But what Bangladesh and I think many countries like it do need are venture capital or risk capital— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Jerry Nicholson: To help businesses which have the potential to scale. So not sort of microfinance to finance a cottage industry, but, yeah, venture capital to really grow enterprises. So that's really what Fi and I then started thinking about. And ultimately, we went back to Bangladesh about four years later, four or five years later in 2010, and we set up an organization called Tindercapital to try and get— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Jerry Nicholson: That type of venture capital going to those early stage scalable businesses. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The name Tindercapital, I'm just curious, how did the name come about? What went into giving this name to your venture? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah, that's a good question. Well, we actually named it... I mean, there's now the very famous dating app Tinder, but we actually named Tindercapital before Tinder came about, or certainly we didn't know about it. So the idea is this, tinder being the small bits of wood or material that you would— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Start a fire with, which would then lead to a much bigger fire. So it's the idea of providing that sort of quite strategic early stage capital to businesses which just needed it at that stage with the goal or the aim that as the business grew, that it could take on additional capital and later stage capital and really grow quite significant enterprises from it. So that was the idea behind the name. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I like the name Tindercapital. Jerry Nicholson: Oh, thank you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I do. Jerry Nicholson: [laughs] Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So [laughs] through Tindercapital and the Open Accelerator, you backed and supported rural entrepreneurs working far outside Dhaka, people who were often a long way from the usual sources of investment. Now, looking back, do you see a connection between investing in overlooked entrepreneurs then and making sure that disabled people are counted in the day-to-day operations? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah, I do. I mean, I think I didn't consciously make that connection, Donna, but now that you ask me to reflect upon it, I think, yeah, there definitely is a strong connection there. I suppose I have a strong conviction that we're all valuable, have a contribution to make, and really should just be given equal opportunities. So whether that's an entrepreneur from a not wealthy background in a remote area of Bangladesh looking for opportunities to grow their business, or someone trying to fill in a form so they can participate in a consultation or— there are definitely some similarities there of looking to remove barriers and just sort of level the playing field. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Because I know today, from my own lived experience, it's still very difficult for persons with disabilities to make their contribution and to be successful entrepreneurs. We're still fighting a lot of that. So it's really refreshing to hear you talk about it in this manner. Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. And thanks for asking me to reflect on that, Donna. It's— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [laughs] Oh, my pleasure. Now, Tindercapital's very first investment was Oasis Coffins, an eco-friendly manufacturer that you helped to turn around by rewriting its business plan and rebuilding its balance sheets so that it could attract institutional backing. What did that experience teach you about patience and persistence, and how have those lessons shaped your way you build accessible data? Jerry Nicholson: Ooh, yeah, no, that's a good question. Yeah, I mean, it was a really good experience investing in Oasis Coffins, but if I'm honest, it was also one of the hardest experiences. Yeah, and I think the reason for that is, well, one of the things it did, Donna, was really show me how difficult it is to invest successfully in an early stage business, just the number of variables and things that need to be right in order for the investment to work. So it felt— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: I was involved with that business for probably about five years. And as you say, the entrepreneur was someone who we met when we first came to Bangladesh. And, yeah, the entrepreneur is a good friend of mine. He's also an engineer, so he's fantastic at setting up a factory and everything that goes on inside of the factory, he's all over. But he wasn't particularly keen or gifted at sales. So it was a constant, yeah, I suppose struggle really to encourage the main founder of that business to look outside of the existing customers that the business had to really scale the business. So it did feel like in many respects it was making progress in one area, but then slipping back in another area. And actually the major customer that the business had was a UK company, a distributor. It bought a lot of coffins from the manufacturing business in Bangladesh, which was great to help the business get on its feet, but it was also an extremely demanding customer, so was always trying to cut the price or— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [laughs] Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Seek a different product or whatever. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: So— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I know all about that. Jerry Nicholson: The poor entrepreneur spent— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. [laughs] Jerry Nicholson: 90% of their time— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Trying to look after this one customer, and that meant that they had limited bandwidth to go after other customers. So what ended up happening at the end of that business, Donna, was they sold the manufacturing business to its UK customer. So in some respects it wasn't a huge success in terms of scaling that business, but on the other side, the business is now very stable, and it employs about 100, 120 people in Bangladesh. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Jerry Nicholson: So yeah, it was an interesting case study in the challenges of [laughs] starting and growing a business. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you're still alive to tell the story. I mean, I think a lot of people might have given up and said, "Oh, good God, I can't do this," right? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, Donna. I don't know how honest you want me to be in this podcast, but I actually had a bit of a breakdown— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Jerry Nicholson: As part of my leadership of that business. When was that? That was in just before COVID, which I've now— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Jerry Nicholson: Fully, I've now recovered from. And it— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Jerry Nicholson: Actually was a... In some respects, those tough times force— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: You to look inside yourself and look at some issues that you might have just glossed over. So I actually view it as quite a positive and a productive time in my life, but it was also very hard as well. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, all right. So many of our listeners would wonder how a chartered accountant and impact investor came to build accessible survey software. Your company began life under another name, Preignition, before becoming Accessible Data 2024. What was the moment or the conversation that turned your attention to the way that disabled people are shut out of surveys and forms? I want... I'm very curious to want to hear this answer from you. Jerry Nicholson: [laughs] Well, first of all, Donna, congratulations. You've done your research. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: [laughs] Thank you. Jerry Nicholson: So [laughs] yeah, so I mean, it really carries on from where we left off with Oasis Coffins. So we arrived in Bangladesh in 2010. We started working with Oasis Coffins and investing in Oasis Coffins quite soon after arriving. But my wife and I, we're not hugely wealthy, so our company, Tindercapital, had very limited capital. So we started thinking about how can we work with more businesses, and how can we network with Bangladeshi banks and external investors who do have access to capital and can invest that in businesses in Bangladesh? So we then ran something called an accelerator program. So an accelerator program is, I suppose, a business support program designed for existing businesses that have got the potential to grow, and it really just provides some support for those businesses, helping them articulate their business plan, connecting them into mentors with particular skills, and also making introductions to investors. So we ran an accelerator program. We called it Open Accelerator. Normally accelerator programs are focused on early stage tech businesses, tech startups typically, and there were a few accelerators for tech startups happening in Dhaka. But we really wanted to work with rural entrepreneurs who didn't have the opportunity to participate in accelerators. So we had a fantastic year running Open Accelerator. We worked with... Jerry Nicholson: Well, we had about 140 businesses that applied, and we worked with, I think it was a cohort of 30, 30 businesses. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: And, yeah, it was a really good program. It was more a sort of a pilot program. And ultimately we were hoping to get it sponsored. So we had lots of conversations with Bangladeshi banks and telecom companies to see if we could encourage them to take over or to sponsor the Open Accelerator so it became sustainable and had a life going forward. But ultimately, we weren't successful at doing that. However, the journey into accessibility and accessible data collection was just as we were... I've been working with my business partner, Christophe, since 2015, when we started building. 'Cause when we were running this accelerator program, Donna, our entrepreneurs were all over Bangladesh. Our— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Jerry Nicholson: Investors, some of them were based in Bangladesh, others were based in Holland or the UK or the US. So we had this very dispersed network, and our data was all over the place, and we spent a lot of time— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Just trying to get the data together and present it to a particular investor or... So lots of data, but real difficulties managing that. So we started thinking there must be a better way of doing this. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: I then met Christophe—Christophe's actually a friend of my brother's—and found out that he was an expert at building information management systems. So we then initially started building a platform to support the accelerator that I was running to manage its program, well, but also to be able to use all that data that we had collected from the businesses to make that available to the investors, and also the information on the investors, make that available to the entrepreneurs. So just to make those connections. So we did that under the name of Preignition, and that's really what got Christophe and I working together. And we started building that platform for a couple of years. But then we realized that it was extremely difficult to commercialize that product. So we'd got some grant funding from USAID and UK Aid to start building that platform. But in order to really get it to work and commercialize itself, it needed... Well, yeah, it just basically just needed more development resource than we had. So since 2020, Christophe and I were slightly sort of running out of energy and running out of money— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: When Christophe's wife worked... Have you come across IDA, Donna, or the International Disability Alliance? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I've heard about it, yeah. Jerry Nicholson: So IDA's this amazing network of organizations of disabled people. So they have, I think it's about 12 core members. But then those members also have members. So they represent... There's about 4,000 organizations of disabled people who come together under the International Disability Alliance umbrella. So IDA essentially represents the global disability community to organizations like the United Nations. So they've been really influential in things like the Convention on the Rights of Disabled People. IDA played a key role in advocating for CRPD. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, right. Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: And Christophe's wife, Priscille, worked for IDA back then. This is back in 2020. And IDA run a global survey to find out how their members are involved in decision-making in the country where they're based. And they were using a well-known survey tool in order to do that, and really struggling 'cause many of their members just couldn't fill in the survey. So the members were frustrated 'cause they couldn't have their opinions heard. And IDA had this big problem, and they just couldn't get the views of their members, which was what they wanted to base their advocacy upon. So Christophe kept hearing about these struggles and realized that through Preignition, we already had many of the components that we needed in order to host a survey. So our platform already had a form builder. It already had a process management, so a way of managing the data and managing data through different stages. So IDA put out an open call for proposals for an accessible survey tool. Because of the relationship between Christophe and Priscille, there was obviously needs to be... There was a potential conflict of interest there, so it was a very sort of transparent and clear bidding process. And eventually, Preignition was awarded that contract. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Jerry Nicholson: So essentially under the terms of that agreement, we agreed to work together with IDA and IDA's members to essentially develop the platform that we had already been working on for a couple of years, but to really develop that into an accessible data collection tool. And we agreed to do that for quite a low cost, but on the understanding that they would have a platform that would be developed and deployed under their own domain and branding. So they have a tool called https://idata.tools. But we would retain the intellectual property and would release it under our own branding and make that available for other customers outside of IDA. So in that way, we would be able to commercialize the software, the platform, and continually be able to work on it and improve it. So that relationship with IDA and IDA's members is absolutely foundational to our origins, how we started building Accessible Surveys. And IDA is still, not only they're a customer, but they're a really important stakeholder for us. So yeah, that's— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That's wonderful. That's— Jerry Nicholson: That's how we got into building... We're focusing on accessible data collection. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It sounds like a very, very interesting, challenging journey for you, and I guess your background as a chartered accountant really helped, right? Jerry Nicholson: Yes. Yeah, I think it did. I think it did. I mean, I think I've been very fortunate in that we've always been able to sort of pay the mortgage and put food on the table. So if you can do that then, and you can also do work which you find meaningful, then that's the ingredients for a happy life, I think. Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think it takes a very special type of person to be able to do that because a lot of people would probably be scared to take those chances, right? I mean, a lot of people are so insecure about their future, how to move forward, what to do and things like that. But I think for you, you didn't seem to be afraid to take the bull by the horns and go, right? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. And I think maybe two things on that. I mean, first of all, it's very much a shared, a joint thing with my wife, Fiona. So I couldn't... She has the same outlook, I suppose, and an appetite for adventure as I have. So that's really helpful. And the other thing is, I think maybe the fact that I do have that accountancy qualification. I sort of feel that if it all goes horribly wrong, I probably could get a job as an accountant, which is not what I want to do, but it's sort of like, I suppose maybe it feels like having a bit of a card in the pocket if I ever need to use it. But, yeah. So— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Jerry Nicholson: Whether that sort of quite, I dunno, conventional start to my career has been helpful to allow me to take some more risks as I've developed it. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think for one thing, having a backup plan, and two, having a wife who is very like-minded certainly helps in the way you progress through your lifelong journey, right? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: I think so. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: And Donna, one important thing which I didn't mention in terms of our journey into accessibility, it's a real partnership between myself and my business partner is a guy called Christophe Geiser. Christophe is a lovely, lovely, talented guy. He's a Swiss national, but he lives in Lyon, in France, and he had a sister who had a disability. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Ah, okay. Jerry Nicholson: And so Christophe has been aware of the barriers that his sister faced all her life. And yeah, so for him, the working in accessibility also had that sort of personal connection. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think that helps a lot. I think if a person is either a person with a disability or a person who has a friend or family member with a disability, it certainly helps them to understand more what the needs are and how to go about dealing with it. And then if you have the additional talent, you've got a lot of ingredients for success, don't you? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Your company's guiding belief is that if a survey is not accessible, the data is incomplete. Researchers can adjust their results for people who choose not to answer, but no statistical method can recover the voices of people who were never able to answer in the first place. And for listeners who have never thought of a survey as a barrier, why does that gap matter so much for the roughly 1.3 billion people worldwide living with significant disabilities and for the decisions made about their lives? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. I mean, I think online forms are everywhere, you know? Companies— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Quite. Jerry Nicholson: Governments— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: Universities. I mean, organizations are constantly wanting to collect data— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: To understand the world that they are working within. And they often use an online form or a survey to do that because for them, it's a fairly easy and low-cost way of collecting data from a large number of people. So because of the prevalence of online forms, if you're a person with a disability and you face obstacles filling in an online form, whether it's, maybe it's, you can't navigate it easily using your keyboard, so things aren't announced in the right order, or if you arrive, you use a sign language and the form doesn't support the sign language, or if you have an intellectual disability and you're used to, or you find it helpful to have things in an Easy Read format. Jerry Nicholson: So really lots of different barriers that different people and different communities face when filling in a form. And that has sort of profound implications for an individual's right to be consulted, to have their opinion heard, to vote, to sign up for a service. But equally on the other side, it has implications for organizations, who— Yeah, I think we'll give organizations the benefit of the doubt in saying it's better for them if they include everyone in their data collection, for different reasons. If you're a business, that's customers or suppliers or employees. If you're an academic and you're doing research, that's the people who you want to consult so your research can become just representative and not biased. Or if you're a government, you want to consult all your citizens. So I think there's really good reasons both from an individual perspective and a human rights perspective, but also from an organizational perspective and wanting better data to make better decisions. Jerry Nicholson: So I think making forms and surveys accessible, I think it addresses both of those key requirements. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think one continuous concern for me personally is that I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think people have really given much credence to the fact that you're asking me to fill out a survey, but you're not paying me for it. You're getting my information for free, and I really, really don't— [laughs] I'm not very keen on that type of way of thinking. Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. I'd say to that, Donna, in terms of the survey, whether people are incentivized to fill in a survey or not, that is... I mean, you can run a survey on Accessible Surveys and offer incentives or rewards or payment for completing the survey. Or you cannot, but that's really... Yeah. I think making the survey accessible is really what we focus on— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Jerry Nicholson: In terms of the process that that survey takes place in, and whether that's a paid survey for consumer research or any other type of research. That's really a decision for the organization running the survey and a decision for the survey participant about whether they want to fill in the survey or not. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, I agree with you. I just thought I would just voice my own personal opinion on the fact that too many organizations, you want... They are ask you to fill out a survey, but you're getting my information for free. You're getting my lived experience for free. Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I think it's about time respect should be shown to those of us who have unique experiences and unique skills. Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But anyway, I mean, that's not what you concentrate on. And clock is right— Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. Interestingly, Donna, you say... I mean, on that, the name of our company is Accessible Data, and Accessible Surveys is our first product. So we are actively looking at other products, and we certainly do. I mean, within the market research sector, they use paid panels a lot. So a company might come to them and say, "We really want to understand about the experiences of people who are blind or low vision when they're using our services in this part of the world," for instance. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Jerry Nicholson: And they will have a budget to pay for the insights on that subject. So there's no reason why we couldn't put a panel behind Accessible Surveys. Maybe it's Accessible Surveys, or maybe it's another product. And then have a panel of people with disabilities who then get invited to fill in surveys— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Jerry Nicholson: And receive rewards and payments for doing that. And potentially our relationship with IDA and their incredible network throughout the world opens up some opportunities to do that. But that is a slightly different product, and we— Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: We're not there yet. But I take your point, Donna, 100%. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Clock is starting to wind down on me, so I wanted to ask you this final question here. What are your plans for the future? Well, you talked about other products. You talked about different things, but you got anything in your tank waiting to be disclosed or— Jerry Nicholson: [laughs] Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You want to share? Jerry Nicholson: Yeah. I mean, I suppose I feel that Accessible Data is really just sort of getting going. We're... Yeah, we're at a really exciting stage in that we have some brilliant customers, early adopting customers. We have a great product which is improving every day. But it really just feels that we're just taking our first... We're in the shallows at the moment, and there's so much scope to build the company and develop the company. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Jerry Nicholson: And as we do that, I think this thing of Nothing About Us Without Us and involving disabled people and people with lived experience not only as consumers of the product, but as teammates, as co-owners, as really part of who we are as an organization is really exciting and I think important, and I think that's the direction that we're going to go down. And I'd really love to look to develop relationships with networks like IDA, and there's also another network called the African Disability Forum. So looking at ways of involving organizations of disabled people more, that's where the business started. Our origins are in that relationship with IDA. But to really make that an active living part of who we are as a business and part of our future, that's really exciting for me. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think it is, and I think it opens up a lot of opportunities, again, to enable persons with disabilities to have their voices heard. We struggle to have our voices heard as a community, so any sort of innovation, any sort of initiative is always welcomed. And I wanna congratulate you on this. And also, in closing, I'd like to offer an invitation to you, if you have the time, to write a short article on what you do and how you do it. And what I would like to do is to publish it on my website, one of my websites, https://barrierfreecanada.org. Because I think it's important not just to have a podcast, but also your written word. So if you're interested, I'm gonna be sending out invitations to those who have been on my Remarkable World Commentary podcast. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So look for that, and if you're interested, I will not edit your article. I will simply post it as is. And I will also have your name there as well. So think of it, and an invitation will be coming your way in the next week or so. Jerry Nicholson: Brilliant. Okay. Well, yeah, thanks, Donna. It's a pleasure to speak with you today. And, yeah, thanks for inviting me onto your podcast to talk. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. It has been my pleasure, and you keep on going. [laughs] Jerry Nicholson: Okay. Thanks, Donna. Enjoy the rest of your day. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You too, Jerry. Thank you very much. Jerry Nicholson: Okay. Bye. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye-bye. Bye. Podcast Commentator: [upbeat music] Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

3. 

   2 Oct 2026

   Remarkable World Commentary Episode #115: Ask Advocate Donna

   🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #115: Ask Advocate Donna https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-10-02-2026/ (https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-10-02-2026/) In this practical episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA presents her October Ask Advocate Donna, opening with one of her favorite quotes, by an unknown author: speak in such a way that others love to listen to you, and listen in such a way that others love to speak to you. Her word game sets complacent against active, arguing that complacency leaves little room for advocacy while being active makes room for it, and then turns to in kind and unkind, wondering whether being cruel to be kind applies to the pair. Donna then shares three listener stories, asking of each what advocacy is, who gets involved, why it is necessary, how and when. A mother, Emily, told a desk agent that her son Emil was vision impaired to get a discounted pass, and Emil's friends spoke up; Donna calls this counter-advocacy and says using a disability to gain an advantage is not right. Rico was fined after his service dog left hair in an Uber; Donna says Uber must accept service dogs and should be called out, with Rico going from the company to a lawyer and social media. Finally, a medical assistant at a lab refused to help a vision-impaired patient undress and asked the patient's friend to do it; Donna says that was very wrong and advises reporting it to the doctor and then the medical association. TRANSCRIPT Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello there. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, your Ask An Advocate host. Second episode for the month of October. Thank you everyone for joining me today, and thank you for responding to my call for your thoughts, your words, your comments, your feedback. Okay? So continue writing to me at donnajodhan@gmail.com, okay? donnajodhan@gmail.com and keep on listening. You never know what you might come across in any of my podcasts and we go from there. All right, so let me start off today with one of my favorite quotes. And here goes: Speak in such a way that others love to listen to you, and listen in such a way that others love to speak to you. Unfortunately, this author is unknown. Now let's go to my word game, one of my favorite segments of my podcast. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay? Many times advocates have to choose between being complacent or being active. I will tell you that being complacent in my books doesn't happen very often. The minute that one is complacent, it means that they choose to ignore. They choose to not care. They choose simply to sit there and take it all in. Whereas on the flip side of the coin, you have active. So complacent versus active. Active is when you decide to do something about something. So complacent versus active. There are complacent advocates who really believe that being complacent is a way or a means of support. I don't fully agree. If you're complacent, I don't think there's much room for you to become involved in advocacy. Whereas if you become active, there is room for you. So let's think about it, complacent versus active. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Here's the other two terms I'd like you to think of for today. In kind or unkind. Do you do something to be kind? As they say, it's in kind that you are performing some action or doing something. Or unkind means that, you know, it's being viewed that you're not being kind, you're being unkind. I wonder if the thought of being cruel to be kind could be applied to these two terms. You're being cruel to be kind when it is unkind. Is that so? What do you think? Or in kind is if you're doing it because you honestly believe that it is a kind gesture. Send me your thoughts to donnajodhan@gmail.com. Now we're going to move into the three stories of the month that our team has chosen for me to share with you, and here's the first story. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: A parent says that her son, little Timmy, is vision impaired. Why is she saying this? Emily told the agents at the desk that her little boy, not Timmy, Emil, was vision impaired. Emily wrote this story and sent it to us, okay? And she did so because she wanted to get a special rate for her little boy, Emil. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Emil's friends noticed what was going on. They noticed that Emily was telling the customer agent at the desk that little Emil was vision impaired. They took action. And this is a kind of a unique story in that Emil was not vision impaired, but the mother wanted to take advantage of something here by telling the customer agent that Emil was vision impaired. The friends knew differently, and the friends stepped up to the plate and said, "No, Emil is not vision impaired." What would you have advised the customer agent to do? Would you, in this instance, to avoid any sort of argument or disturbance, simply gone along with Emily's claim that little Emil was vision impaired and just simply issued a pass or a discounted pass to Emil? Or would you, like Emil's friends, stepped up to the plate and said, "No, this is not right." Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You're using what I call counter-advocacy here. You're using a so-called disability to gain an advantage. Is this right? I don't know what you think, but in my books, it is not right. It is not right to say something that is not true, and it is not right to use a disability to try and gain an advantage. What is your suggestion? What are your thoughts? Okay. So here is what I would like you to think about. Are you on the side of the friends, or are you on the side of Emily, or what would you advise the customer agent to do? Tough decision, eh? So what is advocacy all about? What is advocacy all about here? Advocacy, in my books, in this instance, is advocating for the right thing, the honorable thing. And who gets involved with advocacy in this instance? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is the friends who gets involved in advocacy because little Emil may be too embarrassed to do something, but his friends can. Why is it necessary here? Because it's a matter of stopping someone who has no conscience from trying to gain an advantage by saying that her son has a disability, and it is not so. How do you get involved in advocacy? You do so by exactly doing what the friends did. And when? When you see something that needs to be corrected. Let's move on to the second story. All right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Customer was penalized for having a service dog in an Uber cab. This is gaining a lot of attention, and Uber seems to not understand that the law or the regulations or the legislation says that they must accept service dogs. There is no other way, and this is a growing concern amongst our community here, for those with guide dogs. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, Rico had notified the Uber company that he had a service dog when he called them for a ride. Okay? At first, the driver said that the dog could go into the trunk. Okay? The driver said that the dog could sit with Rico in the backseat. Rico was then fined for his dog making a mess with its hairs or leaving its hairs on the seat or on the floor of the cab. What would be your advice to Rico? I know what mine would be. If I am very sure, and I think it is so, that legally Uber has to take a passenger with a service dog, then I would go much further. I will not take this because if this is what the law is, it is as it is, and Uber needs to be called out. There are too many people reporting on Facebook and even writing to me by telling me that this is the case. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So let's move on here. Okay? All right. What is advocacy all about? Advocacy here is when someone knows that the law says that the cab company must accept a passenger with a service dog. And the passenger has advised this, the Uber company. This is what advocacy is all about, fighting for your rights. Okay? Who gets involved in advocacy here? Well, it's Rico to start with, and then Rico's friends, and he does this through social media and by word of mouth. Why is it necessary? Because the Uber company is not adhering to what the law says. How do you get involved in advocacy? Rico starts the ball rolling. Rico goes to the Uber company to report what is going on. The Uber company does not do anything about it. Then Rico can go to or seek the services of a lawyer and post his experiences to social media. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: When do you get involved in advocacy? As I said above, when something is not right, when a company is not adhering to the law, and this appears to be the case here with Uber. Right. Let's move on now to the next story. Okay? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You have someone who wrote to us saying that a medical assistant at a lab refused to help a patient with a vision impairment. In a lab, we had a medical assistant who refused to help a patient with a vision impairment. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The assistant wanted the patient's friend to help her get undressed. No, no, no. For me, it is a no, no, no. Okay? The friend told the assistant that it was their duty to help the patient. Okay? And the patient reiterated this. What's wrong with this situation here? For the most part, we don't get undressed in front of our friends, do we? Unless it's our boyfriend or someone that we are intimate with. But normally, we do not get undressed in front of our friends, even our family. So for an assistant to say to the friend, "Help the patient," is wrong. Very, very wrong. And what advice I would give to this person, and I did give it, is to go report this incident to the doctor themselves, not just to the person at the desk, but to the doctor themselves, and you start going higher. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay? What is advocacy? It's advocating for something that must be offered by the medical assistant to the patient. It is a must. There's no other way. Asking a friend or a family member to help the patient get undressed is totally inacceptable. This is what advocacy is all about, advocating for equal treatment or advocating for something to be carried out when the assistant knows or should know better. Okay? This is what advocacy is all about. And who gets involved? Well, it's the patient first, then the friend, and then they build from there by going not just to the service desk or the administrative desk person, but going to the doctor themselves, and then you start going upwards from there. Hey, report it to the medical association. Report it to the person or the organization who is in charge of this lab. Okay? It doesn't happen like that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Why is advocacy necessary? It is necessary because this medical assistant crossed the line. And how do you get involved in advocacy? As I just stated above, patient, friend, go to the administrative desk of the office of the lab. Go to the doctor. Okay? And when do you get involved in advocacy? Again, as I said above, you get involved when you honestly believe that your privacy has been trampled upon or your rights have been trampled upon, and in this case, it is your privacy. Okay? So I am Donna J. Jodhan, thanking you for stopping by to listen to me today. Please keep on listening and sending your feedback to me at donnajodhan, D-O-N-N-A-J-O-D-H-A-N, @gmail.com. Thank you very much and see you next month. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

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