Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams

About Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams

Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams is a compelling podcast series that brings listeners into the world of accessibility, leadership, and social change through the lens of one of the most influential voices in blindness advocacy. Dr. Kirk Adams, former President and CEO of the American Foundation for the Blind and a lifelong champion for the rights of people with visual impairments, hosts this insightful and inspiring program.

Publisher

Dr. Kirk Adams, PhD

Category

business · news

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

25 Apr 2024

Latest episode

14 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

60 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   14 Oct 2026

   Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with Anthony Corona, Host and Executive Producer, Sunday Edition with Anthony Corona

   🎙️ Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with Anthony Corona, Host and Executive Producer, Sunday Edition with Anthony Corona https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-by-dr-kirk-adams-10-14-2026/ In this candid episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, Dr. Kirk Adams welcomes Anthony Corona, founder of Anthony Corona Media and Sunday Edition (https://www.anthonycorona.com), who was connected to Kirk by Jeremy Grandstaff and recently joined the Persons with Disabilities Media Co-op. Anthony describes his life before blindness and after blindness: he was the East Coast entertainment editor for The Associated Press when shingles in the tissues of his brain, eyes and ears left him completely blind at 40, and he says he is now 10 years in. He talks about teaching himself VoiceOver, mobility training, guide dog school, his first American Council of the Blind convention in Rochester, New York, in 2019, the internship that led to Sunday Edition, and his work at Open Doors Organization, where he was asked to head communications. Anthony explains how Sunday Edition grew from ACB's weekly news magazine show into an independent family of eight podcasts, with 10 expected by the end of the year, plus Corona FM, its 24-hour streaming channel, and how he mentors contributors to host their own shows, including Sylvia Stinson-Perez, whose Treading the Waters of Life is going solo in January. Kirk and Anthony discuss intersectionality, Anthony's role as vice president of Blind Pride and why it left the American Council of the Blind, and Anthony's focus on sponsorships, short video content and the Double Tap Live network. Kirk closes by describing the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion, an online membership community on the Circle platform. Listeners can find Anthony at https://anthonycorona.com and Kirk at https://drkirkadams.com. TRANSCRIPT: Podcast Commentator: Welcome to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, Dr. Kirk Adams. Dr. Kirk Adams: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. I am that very same Dr. Kirk Adams talking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington. And today, I have a guest who I'm a little bit intimidated because Anthony is a very experienced podcast host himself. So we'll see how I do, Anthony. You can give me a grade at the end. Anthony Corona: [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: But it's Anthony, Anthony Corona, founder of Anthony Corona Media and Sunday Edition. Say hello, Anthony. Anthony Corona: Hello, everyone. I'm really glad to be here. Dr. Kirk Adams: Glad you're here with us. And I was connected to Anthony by Jeremy Grandstaff, another fellow blind guy who I have known and worked with for eight or nine years now. And Anthony attended the virtual launch of the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion on September 1st, which I'll talk a little more about later. Dr. Kirk Adams: But Anthony is out there doing great work in making the world a more inclusive place for people, and in particular people who are blind. And he has put together a number of really exciting initiatives, and we're happily joining forces in a couple of ways. One is Anthony recently joined the Persons with Disabilities Media Co-op, which is a group of us who share our social media platforms. So between all of us, we have social media platforms with over 200,000 followers. And through the management and direction of Aaron Di Blasi of Mind Vault Solutions, anyone in the media co-op can get a message out to all of those social media platforms at the low, low cost of $25 per message. Dr. Kirk Adams: So if anyone listening is interested in learning more about the Persons with Disabilities Media Co-op, I'll tell you how to get in touch at the end of the podcast. So Anthony, I'm gonna hand you the microphone and ask you to tell us your life story in about 40 minutes. Anthony Corona: [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: [laughs] Where have you been? What's been the journey to get you to this point? What are things looking like now, and what's your vision for the future? What's working well for you? Any challenges that we can help with? So the floor is yours. Anthony Corona: Well, I kinda say that there's Anthony and/or Anthony 2.0, or BB and AB, which, you know, before blindness and after blindness. I was sighted until I was 40 years old. Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, wow, okay. Anthony Corona: Yeah, so I'm 10 years in. March 24th is that anniversary. And I threw myself a virtual party. [laughs] But— Dr. Kirk Adams: So it was an event then? It wasn't a gradual degenerative situation? Anthony Corona: No. I am one of those very rare statistical persons who had shingles in the tissues in my brain, in my eyes, in my ears. Had a medically induced coma, woke up three days later and was completely blind. They had to drill a hole in my skull to relieve the pressure. And yeah, the world completely... I was 40 years old, and the world completely changed access. It felt like north was south and south was north, and I had no idea how life was going to exist [laughs] moving forward. Anthony Corona: Before that, I was the East Coast entertainment editor for The Associated Press, but I lived a bunch of lives in 40 years. Played baseball, a year of minor league ball all through high school, college. Worked in retail, worked in restaurants. My degree was in recreational therapy, so I worked in the autism community for a couple years doing early intervention, home-based services as well as ABA, behavioral analysis modification, things like that. Anthony Corona: None of these jobs were high-flying career-paying jobs until I got to The Associated Press. And even then, I mean, the salary was great, but the perks of travel and things like that made life incredible. And then, in the space of three days, I— Dr. Kirk Adams: So how do you move into a job like that? Anthony Corona: I actually had always been writing. And I took a per diem job with The Village Voice, a famous newspaper on the West Coast in New York. A headhunter actually contacted me and said that The Associated Press is interested. Their arts and culture division is going through some changes, would you be in... You have managerial experience as well. Would you be interested in taking a sort of half editor, half managerial position? And I really didn't think I would get the job, so I kinda threw everything I wanted in a job at them, and they gave me everything. Anthony Corona: And seven months later, they asked me to actually take over the entertainment division for a year or so, and clean it up and transition. Media was really changing at that point. When I first walked into that department, we had 17 support staff through researchers, secretaries and such, and there were barely four by the time this happened. And I never left. I loved it. I loved the job, I loved the fast pace, the energy, traveling around the world, meeting incredible people. There were some trade-offs, life-wise. Work/life balance was always hard, and I have a very demanding family. But I loved it. The only thing I joke about is towards the end I was getting really burned out typing the name Kardashian, and major news events in the entertainment industry would happen, and for a month straight you'd just be typing the same things over and over again, recycling the same material. Dr. Kirk Adams: [laughs] Anthony Corona: That part of it became a little frustrating towards the end, but I had no plans to leave or anything like that. Dr. Kirk Adams: So were you in that role when the shingles occurred? Anthony Corona: I was. Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, wow. Anthony Corona: Folks who listen to Sunday Edition, my father passed away. It was happening all at the same time. I didn't know what it was. I was seeing flashes, getting these migraines. By the time I got to the hospital, they rushed me actually to a eye and ear specialty hospital. And that's the last time I drove, I drove myself to the emergency room. And three days later woke up in Manhattan. I was living in Staten Island, New York at the time. Anthony Corona: And after that, I don't really remember a lot about the first year. I think the brain protects you from the harsh parts. I mean, if I sit and focus I can really bring up memories, but they're not part of the kind of fabric of my life. It kind of jumps over until guide dog and becoming involved in the organizations, and life started to pick back up and I knew I wanted to figure out how to find a way to take the skills that I had and turn them into a viable career as a blind person. We all know that— Dr. Kirk Adams: So what was step... My retinas detached when I was five years old, so I've been blind since first grade and I went to school for blind kids, and there was just no question I needed to learn braille, how to use a long white cane. I needed to learn how to type on a typewriter so I could go to public school. So my path was pretty clear-cut. For you at age 40, the first year you say is a bit of a blur, but what was kind of the first coherent strategic thing that you did to move into living as a blind person? Anthony Corona: And this is something we advocate for, the first couple of months I didn't get any real information, and maybe there was a little bit of it, but my brain is, there's so much going on. And honestly, they thought they could save some of the sight, so I did a couple of surgeries with scar tissue and such. Anthony Corona: So by the time that all settled in I realized, okay, I'm gonna have to start figuring out how to live like this. I'd already figured out a few hacks and I wasn't even using a cane yet. And so I reached out to The Lighthouse in New York, and that kind of set me up on that first-year path. But even then it was basically only mobility training. I did a lot of YouTube. I taught myself, thankfully I was in a Mac environment beforehand, so I taught myself VoiceOver and had a really good visual memory of how the phone and MacBook operated. So things like that, I started teaching myself while taking mobility. And then like I said, going to guide dog school really changed everything. That's where I got so much information and got connected, and realized how much I didn't even know about Commission for the Blind. Anthony Corona: [laughs] I was paying for my mobility services out of my severance pay. Yeah. And then I got hooked up and I'm like, "Okay, this is really expensive. I need help." [laughs] But JAWS training, more specialized skill set training, that was all those first two, two and a half years. And I sat at it like a job. They say when you're looking for a job you need to spend like six hours a day actively working on looking for a job. So I took that mindset and said, "Well, if God is good to me, I'm gonna live another 40, 45, 50 years. How do I do that?" Well, I worked to do it and I started learning the skills I needed to learn. Dr. Kirk Adams: Hmm. And then? Anthony Corona: And then a bunch of things happened in a relatively short time. I went to my first national convention. It was for the American Council of the Blind in Rochester, New York. And I had no plans on doing that, but I had sold a story. Got a check that was really nice, and said, "You know what? It's a train ride and a couple of nights in a hotel." And I hadn't traveled on my own anywhere at that point. I had taken Greyhound back and forth to Virginia where my family was, but there was somebody meeting me directly on the other side. Dr. Kirk Adams: Was this like 2018-ish, 20— Anthony Corona: 2019. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, I was there. I was there. Anthony Corona: Yeah. And so I was really faking it until I made it. And I met a bunch of people including my partner in life. Got involved with Blind Pride International, Blind LGBT Pride, and various other Guide Dog Users Incorporated. I was a new guide dog user. I met all these amazing people. And I can only explain, people have asked and I say it like this, it feels like you're meeting these incredibly capable, talented, amazing people listening, sitting in lectures listening to people, that first time around because you're fumbling, you know? [laughs] Or at least I was. I had no clue what I was doing. Honestly, I was making it by the seat of my pants. Anthony Corona: But all of that turned it around and a couple of months later I got an internship through the Commission for the Blind and the American Council of the Blind. I worked for them as their communications intern for a year, and a lot happened during that year. Led to starting Sunday Edition and took some contract jobs. I worked for Democracy Live for a while. Started Sunday Edition. That morphed into three podcasts. And again, life sort of started to shift. I took on leadership roles in Blind Pride, in the American Council of the Blind itself. And another great symbiotic moment, I met Eric Lipp, the director of Open Doors Organization. Anthony Corona: And started working for them as a contractor, and they saw that... And I honestly said, "You don't want me in this role." And it was for the Amtrak compliance and training and all of that side of their operations. I was like, "You really don't want me for this role, but I'm gonna take the job because, A, I need the job, and B, I'll show you..." My father always said, "If you want the job, do the job, and eventually they'll give you the job." And I figured, you know what? I'll show you everything that I have and make myself somebody that... And less than a year later, they asked me to head communications. And at the time, Sunday Edition was really blowing up, and the other podcasts were doing well, so I had to make a decision, and the American Council of the Blind and I parted quite amicably at the time, so that I could do things with Sunday Edition that under a nonprofit structure like that I wasn't able to do, and grow. Anthony Corona: And the mission became amplifying the voices of marginalized communities, especially focusing on the blind and low vision community, the LGBTQIA+ community, all of disability, across the disability spectrum, and anyone who has a voice with something interesting to say or conversations that are adjacent to the advocacy that we're all doing. And my mission is through storytelling. I do traditional interviews, of course. We do a lot of entertainment stuff. We do a lot of straight up tech talk. But the storytelling really is the center of it all, and the mission for the Sunday Edition family of podcasts and Anthony Corona Media itself is really to prepare folks. Take the voice that they have and harness it to put it out there into the world. And if that means you stay with us forever, great, but if you wanna learn sort of the tips that have worked for us, both traditional media and podcasting and digital media content. Anthony Corona: And then, in fact, our first podcast that came on after we left the American Council of the Blind is going solo in January, and I can't be more happy and more proud. And they're building subsequent podcasts off of that. That's Sylvia Stinson-Perez and Treading the Waters of Life. Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, nice. Anthony Corona: Yeah. I'm so proud. It's my first fledgling leaving the nest. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: So let's back up just a little. I'm gathering you were doing communications work for American Council of the Blind, and part of that was creating a podcast or podcast platform or podcast structure, and then you moved out of the ACB umbrella and established Sunday Edition, and you mentioned three podcasts. So could you talk about the structure and scope of Sunday Edition? You talked about supporting people and now helping them spin off into their own podcast empires, so if you could talk a little bit about the shape of Sunday Edition, the components of it. A description of Sunday Edition as an entity would be really helpful. Anthony Corona: If I could take one step back first. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, of course. Anthony Corona: I do wanna give the American Council of the Blind credit for, one of the responsibilities that I had was helping to organize and put together the very first virtual convention during the pandemic. And that was invaluable. Getting that much trust in being able to oversee projects and implement and the knowledge that I learned gave me a base that I couldn't have gotten anywhere else. So I will always hold a very special place in my heart and in my career path for the things that I gained with the American Council of the Blind. Sunday Edition started out as a news magazine show. We used to break it up into three segments, kinda movers and shakers, an interview— Dr. Kirk Adams: Was it called that while it was part of ACB? Anthony Corona: Yeah. Dr. Kirk Adams: It was called Sunday Edition? Anthony Corona: Yeah. Sunday Edition. And it was literally labeled ACB's news magazine offering, weekly offering. And we did it live. We used to have, like, 70, 80 people in the room during the pandemic. It was amazing. We had a lot of fun. There was no real direction those first couple months, and then it started to take direction. And there was something in me between the point where I lost my eyesight and really sitting behind the mic as... I was involved with a podcast, a soap opera podcast for 12 years at this point, so at that point, about seven years. But it's different when you're sitting with a bunch of people, and all you have to do is show up on recording day with your opinions and talk than harnessing an entire show. And my interviewing skills really started to come back, and I felt confident again. I felt in my element and that I was really putting my skills to use, and it morphed into a more roundtable panel/one-on-one interview, in-depth, two hours on a topic, on a focused topic. Anthony Corona: We would throw fun shows in along the way. You're doing four or five of them a month, so not everything was advocacy related. There was a lot of introducing new ACB members, staff members, talking about conventions, interspersed with a lot of advocacy work, and then around the third year, we started really moving into tag conversations, and the companies and entities liked coming to Sunday Edition because it wasn't a 15-minute spot. It was a two-hour conversation. And I started getting companies coming to me that wanted to introduce themselves to the blind and low vision community. We were the first to bring OKO and HapWare. Anthony Corona: EchoVision was in early, I mean, before they even had a prototype, they were on Sunday Edition. And little by little it grew. And so by the time we left we also had something called Behind the Music, which is sort of a karaoke performance adjacent, and an Intimate Evening, which is sitting down, again, another two hours, but with an artist or someone who is functioning in the world, and then we tell their story through their art, their music, as well as their in-depth interview with them. And those are the three that we took and went independent with, and quickly started adding podcasts to the fold. Dr. Kirk Adams: And you mentioned three podcasts. Is that the current— Anthony Corona: There was— Dr. Kirk Adams: Or four? Anthony Corona: That was three then. We are at eight, and we will be at 10 by the end of the year. We have two more premiering this year I'm very excited about. So... And I am not hosting all of them. That would be way too much Anthony Corona in the world. [laughs] But yeah. And I think, at that time also, I started working for Open Doors, and I had to decide leadership versus career. And I will always have space in my life for advocacy and for leadership, but I still want work, I still wanna make a difference, and I still am vital in that world. So it all comes to— Dr. Kirk Adams: And is Open Doors currently the career piece? Anthony Corona: Open Doors is kind of the career piece. And that's— Dr. Kirk Adams: Can you describe Open Doors for those who aren't familiar? Anthony Corona: So Open Doors is cross disability. We advocate and we're in the travel hospitality retail spaces. We do ADA compliance, we run workshops, we consult in new construction for airports, train stations, Amtrak, Brightline, all of the major airlines. We also have the service animal portal— Dr. Kirk Adams: What's that? Anthony Corona: It's a portal for guide dog users to make the paperwork process a lot easier. We have two of the major airlines and we are seven American carriers, including two of the major 11 global total, bringing more on this year. But it's a hard administration to be a nonprofit, and it's just a hard space to be in right now. But I love the work, I love the people that I work with. And quite honestly, I'm strong in voice and personality, and so if I can use my voice for my community, I want to. And if I can get paid for it, I mean, score. Dr. Kirk Adams: That's— Anthony Corona: And that's... Yeah. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: Hear, hear. [laughs] Anthony Corona: Yep. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: I high five you on that one. And then back to spinning off for, I don't know what the right term is, but you have one of the podcasts you said is going to be moving in— Anthony Corona: Into an independent space. Dr. Kirk Adams: From beneath the Sunday Edition umbrella into independence. So— Anthony Corona: Graduating, so to speak. Dr. Kirk Adams: You talk about story... Graduating. Anthony Corona: [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: You talk about storytelling and mentoring and helping people develop, so why don't we talk a little bit about those aspects of what you do? Anthony Corona: Well, you know what I found, once Sunday Edition really started to hit its stride, I found people would often come, "Hey, are you gonna do a show about this? Can we talk about this topic?" And, [laughs] as the other two podcasts came on board and I'm working full time, I suddenly didn't have the same amount of time that I had during the pandemic to really go in depth with research and conversation and finding panelists and coordinating everything. And so, just organically, I started asking folks to sort of partner with me for some of these conversations, and that's really where the idea was built from. And I said, "You know what? Instead of constantly owning the entire space—" And there's tons of podcasts out there, don't get me wrong. Anthony Corona: But people are hesitant to do a long form conversation and stuff like that, and after they do a two-hour conversation, they're like, "Oh my God, that flew by. We could talk for another hour." And it's not as hard as they think it is. I realized, wow, if this is a way for me to pay it forward. If they only want to bring an idea to the world and move on, great. You know what? It benefits Sunday Edition, it benefits the community. But if this is the space they're interested in, then why not teach them what they need to know? If they stay with us, great. If they... It's a lot. You have to upload, you have to edit, you have to follow... [laughs] If people constantly change, we're scheduled for Thursday at 2:00 to record and something comes up and it can be a lot. So the flow of Anthony Corona Media and the Sunday Edition family is, where you are is where we're gonna meet you, and if you have no experience whatsoever, we'll walk you through it. Anthony Corona: And if you get to a space where, like Sylvia, you're ready to take it to the next level, she's writing a second book and her next podcast is gonna focus on that, God bless. I don't wanna gatekeep. We have enough of that in our community to begin with. In humanity, I think it's microcosmed because we're so internet with each other, and we are such a small portion of the larger community. But these things happen, and one of the things that I'm really anti is anti-gatekeeping and anti that whole elite structure. Anthony Corona: Who's a super blind? Are you a super blind? Am I a super blind? I'm a blind guy getting through the day. And I think that's how most of us feel. But at the same point in time, I do understand when you get to a certain space, you don't really wanna look back, and you don't really wanna be held in that space. So it's a really unfortunate dichotomy that we find ourselves in. So those of us that have platforms, and that's why I love the co-op and the things that you are putting together for a cross, I call it cross-pollination. Anthony Corona: We can only be better if we amplify each other. We create the spaces, we share the spaces, and we open the door for others, you know? I look at both organizations and lots of other spaces, and it's the same people doing the same things. And that's not a bad thing, don't get me wrong. But what's the session plan? Have somebody next to you doing it with you so that it— Dr. Kirk Adams: When you say both organizations, you're talking about Federation and Council? Anthony Corona: Federation and the Council, yeah. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Okay. That's fine. I was sure we're thinking about the same organizations. Anthony Corona: [laughs] But I think it spills over into a lot of spaces in our life. Even the social hierarchies. And I think that's part of, that's my unofficial mission, but I want the doors open. And I want people to feel that they have a space, and they're valuable. Dr. Kirk Adams: And I wanna talk about Blind Pride a little bit. I wanna frame up my interest in learning deeply about those dynamics. So I talk a lot about intersectionality and disability, and I'm in the diversity, equity, and inclusion spaces writ large, not just disability, but everybody, everybody. And that's where the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion comes in, a space where everyone can bring their lived experience and their perspectives into play. And when I'm talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion, one thing that often comes up is intersectionality, and my argument that if an organization, a company, an employer, an institution does a good authentic job of disability inclusion, they're going to be doing a good authentic job of inclusion overall, because disability knows no demographic boundary. Dr. Kirk Adams: So there are people with disabilities and impairments of every ethnicity, country of origin, economic status, affectional orientation. You name [laughs] a demographic category, there's people with disabilities within that category. So you are involved in Blind Pride. So I don't know if you identify as gay or queer, how you like to self-identify, but I'd love to know. And then you are a blind person, so you obviously have a visual impairment as well. So one thing I often cite is data I found in my dissertation research that showed only 35% of blind people are in the workforce, and of those who are, the people who make the most money, who have the highest income are white males with lots of usable vision or legally blind. Dr. Kirk Adams: And the people who make the least are totally blind Black women. So I say there's these cascading dynamics of marginalization, oppression, institutional barriers and discrimination that kinda layer upon one another. So, as I blurted out those top of mind thoughts, would love to get your take on those dynamics of Blind Pride and your lived experiences occupying multiple identities of, I'll say, oppressed, marginalized people. Anthony Corona: Well, I'll start off with my pronouns are he/him. I do identify as gay. Caucasian Italian man from New York City, so I recognize the privilege that I was born into and, for lack of a better word, enjoyed for most of my life. Athletic, relatively good looking, relatively smart. I had a lot of advantages, a lot of luck. I knew when to take advantage of luck when it crossed my path. And I did a lot of advocacy in the LGBTQIA plus community beforehand, gay marriage and archiving, working with Eric Marcus in Making Gay History and the Gay Men's Health Crisis in New York, archiving our history and understanding where we came from. And I say that because when I got to convention and found out, oh my God, there's a group, and there's folks that [laughs] excuse me, are doing good things together, I was so excited. Anthony Corona: And I think that there's a lot of overlap for all marginalized communities, but especially the blind, low vision and the LGBTQIA plus community. There really is a lot of overlap in the types of advocacy we've needed to do, the unfair stereotypes that have been placed on us and the villainization of our communities, the other-izing for political purposes. So to be involved in an organization that really cares for the intersectionality of blind, low vision, and the LGBTQIA+ experience touches right at my heart. I'm the current vice president. I came in running. They didn't have a secretary in 2019. Nobody volunteered. And I finally did because they needed it, and I had the skills to do it, and never looked back. We've had some rough patches. We've had some amazing triumphs. And it's a really great organization. We have a lot of allies. And we make sure to create those safe spaces for the intersectionality that is blind, low vision, and LGBTQIA+. Dr. Kirk Adams: Are there any particular challenges that you might have not thought about [laughs] before becoming a blind person, to that intersectionality? Anthony Corona: The same challenges, I think, in different ways that we all face. And I'll say it this way. A couple of weeks before all of the events that led up to losing my sight, I had been in one of my favorite bars in the Village on Christopher Street in Manhattan, and I had a really, almost unfair amount of attention. I did not lack for conversation, companionship, or anything else. A couple months after being blind, the first time I walked in there, it was like I was invisible. Anthony Corona: And so what I think the challenge is trying to align with the big organizations and the big advocacy movements in the LGBTQIA+, we get all the same questions, all the same fears, assumptions. "Well, what could you really do?" "How much help are you gonna need?" All that kind of stuff. But the other side of it, it's no secret, I'm sure, to a lot of your listeners, Blind Pride left ACB as well. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, I had no idea. Anthony Corona: Yeah. No. We're an independent organization. January will be three years. So BPI left a little bit before I did, and the two events had nothing to do with each other. Leadership of ACB and I were in conversation about how to gently part, and potentially running some of my content, which they still to this day do. Like I said, we left on pretty amicable terms, but not Blind Pride. There's a lot of the blindness and blindness only, leave the rest of yourself at the door, and that works really well for white Christian folks. It doesn't work for almost everybody else. Hispanic community, the African American community especially, the LGBTQIA+ community. And we've never been ones to say, "Oh, we have it doubly hard because we're doubly... We're disabled and gay." But when it comes down to it, to completely ignore half of someone's lived experience, it can only fester for so long, and that's what ended up happening. Anthony Corona: And I think honestly, both organizations are better for having gone through it. And we can act as subject matter experts for, and we do. We are now for both ACB and NFB. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. So how do people listening who are sharing those identities of blindness and LGBTQ, how do they get involved with Blind Pride? Anthony Corona: Well, we have a really easy website. It's https://bpi.gay. There is tons of information there. Membership email address is there. You can always reach out. You'll either get me or one of my committee members. Have a conversation and join us or come to one or two of our events, feel us out. We do a lot of social networking. Most of our advocacy at this point, we've morphed more into a partner organization rather than a full-blown advocacy organization. For many reasons. But also, the smaller fish, we can do some specialized stuff for the bigger organizations, and it works out well that way. But there's a lot of opportunity for social gathering, advocacy, and peer support. And you can find all of that at https://bpi.gay. Dr. Kirk Adams: I like it. And then Sunday Edition is a portfolio of, I think you said eight, soon to be 10 podcasts. You're not managing, hosting all of them. What's your vision for the future of Sunday Edition? Anthony Corona: Well, joining the co-op was a big... I guess you could say it wasn't a bucket list, because I didn't know the inner workings of it until very recently. But it was something that I was looking towards. I just recently also joined the Double Tap Live network with two of the podcasts. What I see for the next two years is what I'm really focused on, moving into short video content, expanding the reach of the podcasts themselves, looking at sponsorship opportunities. And my contributor list is growing, like, almost daily at this point now, which is great. Keep 'em coming. But keeping that— Dr. Kirk Adams: Contributors meaning financial contributors, content contributors? Anthony Corona: Meaning content contributors. Folks that are writing editorials, helping with the tech spotlights, bringing conversations to one of the various podcasts. And now, it is hard to sustain financially. I had a great sponsorship opportunity last year, which got us through the first half of this year. Everybody who does, actually not bringing ideas, not part of conversations, but my editors, my background, everybody who works for Sunday Edition gets paid. That was something that I absolutely insisted on from the moment we started. But it is expensive, so this, the year of '27 is gonna be about sponsorships, growth, opportunities, and keeping the doors open and then amplifying as many voices as comes to us, and I'm always actively seeking out. I talk people [laughs] into, instead of just taking your idea, you come do it. Me or one of our partners will co-host with you. You're gonna set the conversation. And I just wanna keep doing that and grow. Dr. Kirk Adams: Can people do a one-off? If someone's super interested in blind chess, can they do an episode on that and contribute that passion and that knowledge? Anthony Corona: Absolutely. I had somebody do a one-off. Dr. Kirk Adams: You're not committing to create a blind chess podcast, but do an episode on one of the existing? Anthony Corona: I will always try to talk you into doing, and I've done a few of these, limited edition series. And what I always say is, "You know what? Have the first conversation." Structure it so that it's not everything that you know and everything that you wanna say, and honestly, no one does a two-hour podcast out of the gate. We usually plan for 45 minutes to an hour for a first podcast. So structure what you really wanna say in that first podcast, but think about, if you like doing it, we get good engagement. Think about how we might turn this into an... I've only done maybe three one-offs in the last three years because they have turned in, most of them turn into something. A couple of them have turned into full-blown podcasts. Dr. Kirk Adams: So if someone has an interest, a passion, an interest, something they would like to share, they can contact Sunday Edition and fit in somewhere in the portfolio of activities that are going on. Anthony Corona: Absolutely. I can't say too much about this, but I'm working with the Kentucky School for the Blind on a project that will result in a bunch of one-offs. [laughs] But they're getting credit for learning journalism and such, and their finished project will also be a podcast that they can keep for— Dr. Kirk Adams: So these are students? Anthony Corona: These are students. And we'll be featuring them through the Sunday Edition channels. We have our own 24-hour streaming channel, by the way, Corona FM, which plays all kinds of content from the Sunday Edition family as well as music and fun stuff. One of the podcasts, the soap opera one that I'm involved with, we partnered and branched off and we do legacy entertainment interviews. I just literally yesterday spoke with Mimi Kennedy. Last week was Rosanna Arquette. We're sitting down with, oh, God, J.R. Ewing's wife. I just looked at her email two minutes before we got on this. Next week, Linda Gray, amazing actress. Jon Lindstrom, the author. We have a conversation coming up with Stephen King actually for the holidays. So yeah, there's just a lot under Sunday Edition, but whatever day you have— Dr. Kirk Adams: How do people find Corona FM? Anthony Corona: https://www.anthonycorona.com, anywhere you listen to your podcasts. It's Sunday Edition with Anthony Corona, and links for all the other podcasts are on https://anthonycorona.com. Dr. Kirk Adams: That's— Anthony Corona: But I'm out there everywhere. Dr. Kirk Adams: That's the hub. Anthony Corona: That's the hub. Yeah. Anthony— Dr. Kirk Adams: If we go to https://anthonycorona.com, we can find everything else? Anthony Corona: Yes, or Anthony Corona Media on Facebook. I'm a version of Anthony Corona on all socials. Dr. Kirk Adams: [laughs] Anthony Corona: [laughs] Yeah. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Look for Anthony Corona wherever you prefer to do your social media hangout. You'll find him. Anthony Corona: [laughs] You'll find me somewhere. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: That's great. Anthony Corona: And the easiest email is sundayedition, all one word, @anthonycorona.com. I am responsive. I answer everything that comes in. And if you've got an idea, I always say, "We'll take it from mind to mouth to microphone to podcast feed, or from mind to fingertip, word to one of our publishing arms." And we have quite a few distribution arms of anything written that we publish. Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, I don't know how in the world I have not encountered you before, sir, but I'm glad it's happened now. Thank you Jeremy Grandstaff for connecting us. Anthony Corona: Absolutely. Same here. Dr. Kirk Adams: And now you're part of the Persons with Disability Media Co-op, which we talked about a little earlier. If people wanna get in touch with me, I have a website, dr for the doctor, https://drkirkadams.com. You can email me there, sign up for my newsletter. I'm on LinkedIn every day, Kirk Adams, PhD. And I do want to talk a little bit about the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion. I was asked to join a board in the fall of '24 for a nonprofit here in Seattle called the Institute for Sustainable Diversity Inclusion, which has been around about 30 years doing great work here in the Seattle community, mostly working with local corporations and being sponsored by companies that are based here, all the Seattle gang, Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Costco, Boeing, et cetera. And their model had become less and less impactful as corporations started to move away from formal commitments to DEI. Dr. Kirk Adams: Sponsorship started dwindling. The pandemic didn't help. And then I agreed to join the board under the condition we could lead a strategic planning process, which we did last summer. A very good one. Convened 60 DEI leaders and got input and got a clear message that there was appetite, interest, and a community where people could gather, share information, learn from one another, teach one another, enlist support from others, and rapid response of emerging issues. So we decided to create an online membership community based on being welcoming to everybody who has an interest in making the world a more inclusive place, with people interested in human dignity, social justice. It's called the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion. It's on the Circle platform. There's a website. There is an Android app, iOS app, and it is a monthly membership with various levels. Dr. Kirk Adams: I invite you all to come check it out. And it's a place for you if you care about fairness [laughs], equity, and justice and want to make sure those issues aren't buried under the onslaught of evil forces. I'll leave it at that. But Anthony, it's been a pleasure to have you. It wasn't two hours, but as you said earlier, it sure could have been. But I will be going to https://anthonycorona.com. I wanna check out Corona FM for sure. And again, if people wanna get in touch, go to https://anthonycorona.com or email sundayedition@anthonycorona.com or get in touch with— Anthony Corona: It's Corona like the beer. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: Yes. That doesn't sound bad right now. It is about that time here in Seattle, Washington, on a sunny fall afternoon. Anthony Corona: Same here in Miami. Absolutely. And we'll do a part two of this on Sunday Edition. I think there's a lot you and I can talk about. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. Anthony Corona: All right. Dr. Kirk Adams: Thank you, Anthony, for being on this episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, and we'll see everybody next time. Podcast Commentator: Thank you for listening to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, share or leave a review at https://www.drkirkadams.com. Together, we can amplify these voices and create positive change. Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep making an impact.

2. 

   1 Oct 2026

   Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with Zhou Fang, Founder and Principal Practitioner, Intersectional Group

   🎙️ Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with Zhou Fang, Founder and Principal Practitioner, Intersectional Group https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-by-dr-kirk-adams-10-01-2026/ In this thoughtful episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, Dr. Kirk Adams talks with Zhou Fang, an intersectionality practitioner and abundance mindset teacher whose podcast he discovered when it popped up in his iCatcher app. Zhou explains that her intersectionality work begins with her own experience as a Chinese immigrant who is not a citizen, from graduate school in Manhattan, Kansas, to her life in Portland, Oregon, and she compares Midwest hospitality with Pacific Northwest politeness, which she says can cost people the honest conversations that build real relationships. Kirk shares his own culture shift from "Seattle nice" to New York City, and Zhou describes how she uses intersectionality and the "yes, and" approach to help leaders become better, more thoughtful communicators. Zhou says she learned about abundance because of scarcity: about three years ago, she says, illness forced her to stop working, and she found abundance in the people who cared for her and in nature, from the smell of fresh rain to Oregon's waterfalls. She walks through her coaching process, which begins with reclaiming time, rest, space and the ability to dream, and explains the solidarity economy, while Kirk brings in Tricia Hersey's Nap Ministry and his reading of the Dao. The conversation closes with Kirk's invitation to the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion and with where to find Zhou at https://abundancewithzhou.com and Kirk at https://drkirkadams.com. TRANSCRIPT: Podcast Commentator: Welcome to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, Dr. Kirk Adams. Dr. Kirk Adams: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. I am that very same Dr. Kirk Adams talking to you from my home office in Seattle, and today I'm thrilled to have a guest that I discovered by listening to a podcast. Zhou Fang is here today. Zhou is an intersectionality practitioner and an abundance mindset teacher, two things I am very interested in myself. So welcome, Zhou. Zhou Fang: Thank you so much, Dr. Kirk, for having me on your program. When you told me you listen to my podcast, [laughs] I felt so honored. I rarely have people talk and tell me, say, "Hey, I listen to your podcast." Every time I hear something like that, for some reason, I just feel so nicely surprised and also honored. So when I saw your message, it made my day. So thank you very much. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. So I'm a totally blind person, and I use various types of technology, screen-reading software. I use one called Job Access With Speech, JAWS, on my desktop, and then on the iPhone there's a built-in screen reader called VoiceOver. And I have an app called iCatcher, which is very accessible and works well with VoiceOver, and it's for listening to podcasts. And when I get ready for the day and set my intentions and kinda write a little vision of what I want the day to look like, what I want the shape of the day, the focus of the day, I typically listen to a podcast while I'm kinda getting organized. And I'll just put in a keyword, just whatever floats to the surface. I might have put in intersectionality. I might have put in abundance. But your podcast popped up, and I tapped on it, and I was just so engaged by what you had to say. So I'm so glad you're here today. Dr. Kirk Adams: I do want to make listeners aware of something that's very important in my life, and that is the launch of the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion. I'm serving as executive director of the nonprofit Institute for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion, and we have launched a community coalition that's a monthly membership model. And if you are interested in diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, belonging, and gathering together with other like-minded individuals to take collective action to make the world a more socially just, fair, and a place where human dignity can flourish, I would invite you to check out the Community Coalition. Dr. Kirk Adams: So, Zhou, intersectionality is something I talk about a lot in the work that I do, especially when I'm talking to companies about employing people with disabilities. And I say that if you do a good job of including people with disabilities, you're going to be doing a good job of including everybody because disability knows no demographic boundaries, so people of all races, genders, affectional orientations, economic backgrounds, education, rural, urban, there's a certain percentage of us that have or will have disabilities. So intersectionality is something we share. And then the abundance mindset, I know I've read the work of Carol Dweck, and she talks about that. And I loved what you had to say when I listened to your podcast, so I just want to hand the microphone to you and ask you to tell us about your journey, which I heard a little bit on the podcast interview I listened to. But would love to, like I say, where have you been, Zhou? Where are you now? Where do you see things heading? What's working well for you? Any challenges? So the floor is yours. Zhou Fang: [laughs] Such big questions. Thank you, Dr. Kirk. I just wanna say really quickly that I am curious about your Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion organization, so I would love to learn more of that as well. Dr. Kirk Adams: I will send you information. Zhou Fang: Yes. I would love to participate. And for me, intersectionality and abundance mindset, they are really interconnected. When I first entered kind of the consulting space, during the pandemic pretty much, what I started with intersectionality, and for me, that's where I was, is intersectionality really opened my mind about how our world, especially in the US, works. As you mentioned, right, people with disability and with different kind of intersectional identities, different backgrounds, somehow we are all here together and trying to figure this out. And for some of us, more able-bodied people, right, we don't see the challenges people with disabilities, and sometimes visible, sometimes invisible. And just from that perspective, from the intersectionality lens, is that if we can all develop a sense of empathy and also being able to understand and think from different perspective, then we have the opportunity to serve each other better. Zhou Fang: And I think that's the power of intersectionality. 'Cause like you mentioned, Dr. Kirk, is that at some point in our lives, a lot of us will at least become temporarily disabled or having limited ability, and for a lot of us, that condition may be permanent or long-term. So if we have that kind of mindset, disability is not, it's not that unique. It's actually, it can happen to anyone. And having that idea can really make us more empathetic, just as a society and as community. And of course, apply intersectionality to other areas, race, gender, socioeconomic status, and even your citizenship status, right? 'Cause I'm a immigrant, so I'm actually— Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, let's hear a little bit about your lived experience, your life journey. Not everyone follows a path that leads them to a space of thinking about empathy [laughs] and serving others. Some of the things you've mentioned. So what is your life experience that brought you to these spaces? Zhou Fang: Yeah, for me, my intersectionality experience starts with my immigrant experience. Is not being a citizen, and that is invisible identity. And oftentimes also visible because I am, for folks who are listening to this podcast or who heard my name, Zhou Fang, may be able to guess that I am Chinese. So I moved to the US from China as a young adult. So for a lot of people, the way I look will— Dr. Kirk Adams: And what brought you, your education or work? Zhou Fang: Yeah, education. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, okay. Zhou Fang: Yeah, yeah. Grad school. So I went to grad school in Kansas, actually. A lot of people probably wouldn't guess that either. So the way I look is, people will by default assume that I am an immigrant to begin with, right? Which I am. At the same time, it's like there are so many Asian Americans here, and we are always seen as immigrant. So that intersectionality to me is part of my experience here, and also, because I'm not a citizen, and some people don't know that. So a lot of the benefits that a citizen has, I don't have, right? For example, voting. I'm not able to vote, and a lot of us take that for granted, the right to vote, the ability to vote. So every time I mention myself as an example is, we don't take things for granted, and a lot of the things that we just assume that's readily available may not be for a lot of people, for example. And so that is my very personal experience with intersectionality. And— Dr. Kirk Adams: So some of your identities, obviously you've got Chinese, immigrant, female. Zhou Fang: Yes. Chinese— Dr. Kirk Adams: Not a citizen. So you've got [laughs] a number of intersecting identities. And you live in the Pacific Northwest now. Zhou Fang: I do, yeah. I'm in Portland, Oregon. Which we have a larger Asian population compared to Kansas probably. And still we are a relatively small group of people here, and very diverse as well. So I can also observe a lot of intersectionality within the Asian and Asian American communities, from just personal life and through my professional work as well. So really it's like my lived experience as an immigrant, as Chinese, as woman, as someone who lived in the Midwest and then moved to the West Coast, to be able to compare the differences kind of between places, even within just one country. That really kind of put things into perspective in terms of intersectionality. Dr. Kirk Adams: And what does it mean to be a intersectionality practitioner? Zhou Fang: Is for me to use intersectionality as a guidance, as a principle in when I work with individuals, when I work with organizations, when I work with leaders. And that does put me back to the kind of empathetic leadership mindset a little bit, because with intersectionality we can say, "Oh, I don't exactly know where are you coming from, or where did you get that idea or perspective, but what I do know is we all have our lived experience, and that experience kind of leads us to our decision-making, to our understanding of life, to our building relationships, to our showing up to our community." And because of our intersectionality, basically it, in a way, decides how we show up to this world, and I use this framework of intersectionality as a guiding kind of principle in my work with individuals and organizations. Dr. Kirk Adams: So what would be an example of work that you've done with a leader or organization? What types of outcomes are people seeking to achieve in working with you? Zhou Fang: Yeah. A lot of the work I do focuses on communications, so using the sectionality as a framework to help organizational leaders to be better communicators, and that is to use my academic background as well, 'cause I have a journalism degree and also a mass communications degree from grad school. And so understanding the sectionality really can help leaders become better and more thoughtful communicators at work and in community. A quick example is from intersectionality, we are able to see things are not linear, right? Oftentimes it's not either/or, as we know. The thing is, sometimes we still think that way, so we need to practice the not either/or kind of thinking, which is yes, and, right? It's, "Yes, I hear you, and this is what I think." Or, "Oh, yes, this is what happened, and this is what we can do to perhaps correct something or fix a problem or make things better," is to have that acknowledgement of the situation or the presence and being willing or being curious enough to have a conversation, a dialogue with your staff members, with your team to really figure out what's the better way to move forward with the business, with the organization, and with your team. So really, intersectionality in my work largely is to help leaders to become better, more effective, and thoughtful communicators using the yes, and methodology. Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, [laughs] I'm very curious about, you mentioned differences and intersectionality, you lived in the Midwest, now you live in the Pacific Northwest, and you were able to observe differences. So I have lived in small towns in Washington State, a small town in Oregon, Seattle, New York City, and Arlington, Virginia. Those are the places where I've had permanent addresses for long-term residences. So I've never lived in the Midwest. So I'm curious, Kansas and Portland, they sound very different [laughs] when I say those words. So what are some observations, reflections that help inform your work around those three things? Zhou Fang: That's a really good question. Thank you for that, Dr. Kirk. So I lived in Manhattan, Kansas, which is where Kansas State is. Dr. Kirk Adams: The Little Apple. Zhou Fang: Yeah, Little Apple. How do you know that? [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: [laughs] I know that from watching sports. Zhou Fang: Oh, my gosh, of course. Yeah. And to me, as a student, that's where I landed. I landed in the heart of the US, basically. And what I experienced there, people might say, "Oh, was it boring or bland, or was it rude or…" It's not. It was actually people are genuinely very nice there. The hospitality, the sense of people want to take care of you, especially knowing you are not from here. Sometimes we talk about racism, right? Some people are very blatant and obviously racist, but the thing in the Midwest is a lot of people, they genuinely don't know, oftentimes, is unconscious bias, right? So borderline, kind of like, "Oh, do you mean this, or do you mean that?" So there is ambiguity in people's language, and the thing is oftentimes people don't mean bad. It's just genuinely people are not aware. They don't know enough or educated enough to be very careful with their language. Zhou Fang: But the experience I had, it had always been people being very nice to me, and my friends, who are also international students. The hospitality in the Midwest absolutely is the best, honestly. And compared to the Pacific Northwest, the Pacific Northwest to me is, as you and I know, we pride ourselves, right, both in Seattle and Portland regions, we pride ourselves for being very progressive, or a lot of us, people in the metropolitan areas, or say we are, we know a lot, right? People will say, "Oh, I read a lot. I have a lot of information. I read about things, different opinions, et cetera." We think ourselves as very educated, very informed, and very progressive. At the same time, sometimes I feel a little taken aback by the Pacific Northwest politeness. Zhou Fang: Yeah, so it's that kind of combination of, okay, so whose moral high ground we are talking about here? We are learning or we are trying to do better, and the politeness to me sometimes is like, I want to say something, but I don't want to be rude, so I do not, rather not say. And I think sometimes it's fine, and if we all just try to be polite or pretend to be polite, then we actually lose a lot of opportunities to learn, to build that connection, to build that relationship. And everything because of that politeness or the hesitation of saying something, it leads to a more shallow relationship. Dr. Kirk Adams: Right. So there's this thing called Seattle nice where people don't disagree with one another. Even if they have a contrary opinion, they won't necessarily voice that. And that was my big culture shift when I moved to New York City and I was working with people who grew up there. Because they will voice their counter-opinion in two seconds [laughs] and engage you in a debate and a vigorous examination of different opinions. Where here, people don't tend to challenge one another, and sometimes that leads us, especially in organizations and institutions, to kind of get really bogged down in process. And I noticed things moved more quickly, came to resolution more quickly in those environments where people would air their differences and express their differences and work through them. Dr. Kirk Adams: So then you mention intersectionality and abundance, I can't remember, you said go hand-in-hand or align with one another, so let's examine abundance a little bit. Zhou Fang: Yeah. Thank you. I developed my abundance mindset practice slightly after intersectionality practice. I learned about abundance because of scarcity. So you see, that's intersectionality, right? It's yes and, it's never either or. There's always this interconnectedness between things and with each other. I learned about abundance because I was ill and sick a little while ago, about three years ago now, and I realized the reason I became sick and unable to work was because of my scarcity mindset. My own scarcity conditioned me to believe that if I stopped working, then I'm done. I must work. That was my mentality. Which is very scarcity-centered because I had so much fear of missing out. I would say, "If I don't do this, I will lose that," right? It's very either/or thinking. And when I get sick, because my body just couldn't go on anymore at that point, and I had to take a prolonged kind of extended break, about three month, during that time not working very much. And I realize when I am in recovery, when I am trying to feel better and rebuild my strength and my body, I experienced a lot of abundance during that time. Which is weird, right? I'm not working. Zhou Fang: How do I have abundance when I'm not working? But I did. And I had so many people check on me and help me, not only with my life and with my house, with my dog, and I have a wonderful partner who has been there supporting me, and they all showed up when I was in need. And because I wasn't working, I had a lot of time, right? So I was able to see nature, and nature is such abundance. And I don't know how somehow along the way I lost my interest in nature. And I rediscovered my interest for nature and appreciation for nature, and it's been giving me so much abundance since then, and so much learning and lesson quietly. Nature is never like, "Hey, you have to do this." It's just there, and if you are curious enough, if you are open enough, then you will learn from Mother Nature. And to me, that's a lot of abundance. So for me, during my recovery, like, oh, I don't have to be in scarcity all the time. In fact, scarcity almost paralyzed me. I couldn't move. But abundance to me at the time, and to today still, is the people and nature and everything that we provide for each other. Dr. Kirk Adams: Talk to me a little bit more about that abundance of nature and some of your experiences and reflections. So how do you experience nature? What are some of the ways in which you internalize that feeling of abundance through nature? Zhou Fang: Yeah, I wanna say having the ability to experience nature itself is a privilege, right? To understand intersectionality is also to understand our own privilege, our own advantage, and also our disadvantage. So having access to nature, being able to step outside is a huge privilege. And also being in Pacific Northwest, we are so close to, say, the ocean, the forests and the waterfall, the river, that is such a blessing. That in itself is abundance, I believe. And in terms of my experience really is the smell, the smell of fresh rain. After the first rain, what's the smell? After the first spring bloom, the flowers, what is the smell? When we go to the Portland Rose Garden in May or in June, the colors we see, the smell, and the texture we can feel, and how it makes people feel, you can see the smiles on people's faces. And you can hear just the joy around nature. And also when we go hiking, Oregon has a lot of waterfalls. So when we go hiking, you not only see the water, you hear the water as well. Dr. Kirk Adams: Have you ever gone to Silver Creek Falls? Zhou Fang: Yes. Dr. Kirk Adams: I lived, well, you drove past my childhood home 'cause we lived on the— Zhou Fang: Oh, yeah? Dr. Kirk Adams: We lived on the road to Silver Creek Falls. Yep. Zhou Fang: Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah, that— Dr. Kirk Adams: We went there as a child and walked behind the falls, and I can still remember the awe, the feeling of awe standing behind that waterfall and hearing it, feeling the mist. Zhou Fang: Right. It gives you, yeah— Dr. Kirk Adams: And, or smelling the smells of the forest, yeah. Zhou Fang: Exactly. It's the sound, it's the smell, it's the texture, how it makes you feel as a person, the comfort you take in nature, and the wisdom you receive from nature. And just, I will walk through the waterfall if I can. Not all the waterfalls. So okay, don't attempt if it's, [laughs] it could be dangerous, listeners. But make sure you are safe, and if you are, you can walk through the waterfall, and the feeling of those water splashing on your skin, that feeling is just incredible. And to me all those experiences from nature are abundance to me, and understanding how precious that is. A lot of the abundance mindset is how do we have a more sustainable future? How do we create, how do we repair the damage we've done to environment, to nature? And that really makes you think, okay, we only have this one world, and if you want to continue to have this abundance, we really need to take care of it. So that's my very much lived experience with nature. And how does nature provide abundance to me. Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, it's interesting. I mentioned my iCatcher app and putting in a keyword. If I put in the word abundance and hit search, and it pulls up 100 podcasts, probably 95 of those will be talking about money. Zhou Fang: Wealth, yeah. Dr. Kirk Adams: Wealth, things. Cars and houses and stuff. So it's very refreshing. I think about the waterfall being refreshing [laughs] and I think about your take on abundance being very refreshing. Zhou Fang: Absolutely. Yeah. No, thank you. I have the same kind of complaint, is every time someone reach out to me and want to talk about abundance, is most of the time it's about wealth management. [laughs] I can't. [laughs] I'm sorry. I understand the importance of money. I really know it. Working as a consultant, I know what money means. And there's so much more. There's so much more to that. Dr. Kirk Adams: So you're an abundance mindset teacher, so what would a process look like? What would your initial conversations be like? If you could give me a little bit of shape to that. Zhou Fang: Thank you. Thank you. It's like many kind of coaching processes. I would have a intake session with a new client just to understand what are their wants and needs. Why are they talking to me? They could be talking to so many coaches and consultants. Why me, right? What is it that you need, that you want from this experience? And what prompts you to want to know more about abundance? So I would have a intake session with them, and then from there, every session we would focus on something. So initially we would talk about how do we reclaim time? Time is part of abundance, right? If we cannot reclaim our time back, then we won't really be able to enjoy abundance if we don't have time. Say you are working 12, like 10 hours a day and six days a week. So even if you did have abundance, how are you gonna enjoy it? So initially we will establish a basic kind of foundation for abundance practice is to reclaim time, to relearn what is rest. Rest is also a very important part of abundance. Again, if we cannot rest, we won't be able to enjoy abundance. And then we will talk about space. What is space for you? Is it spacious or is it limited or confined? So if we don't reclaim our space, either physically or in our head, then we also won't really be able to enjoy or create abundance in our life. And then another thing I would work with my clients with is dream or imagine. Zhou Fang: Can we dream of a better future? Can we dream of a more abundant life for ourselves and for each other? Not being able to dream or imagine freely is scarcity, right? 'Cause that's what scarcity conditions us, is this is the only way. You have to do this. That's scarcity. But abundance is, well, this is where we are now. What about an alternative? Can we think of a better future, what that future could look like? If I am to dream freely, what kind of life do I want to live? What kind of life do I want others to have, for my family, for my children, for my grandchildren? So giving people back the ability to dream is another important component in my abundance work with people. And from there, we continue to explore based on people's lived experience. Again, it's like, oh, do you want to talk about gratitude? Okay, let's talk about gratitude. And do you want to talk about solidarity? Oh sure, let's talk about solidarity and solidarity economy. How does that look like in your life? And oh, what if you want to talk about grief, right? Zhou Fang: For some people, that's heavy, but to me, grief is a huge part of abundance. Grief and love, they go hand-in-hand. So do we want to talk about abundance in love and in grief? We can also talk about that. So I think after the initial exploration, the intake, the reclaiming time, space, dream, and rest, then we continue to explore the different factors and different areas where people want to be more abundant about. So— Dr. Kirk Adams: I don't think I've heard the term solidarity economy before. Could you talk a little bit about that? Zhou Fang: Oh, it's so fun. Solidarity economy is not really outside of the capitalistic system. It can still exist in the capitalistic society. Although, we think about solidarity economy, it's not very exploitive. It's more like we do this together. So if you think about a co-op, that is solidarity economy. If you think about employee-owned business, that's solidarity. Or if you think about a mutual aid or a mutual fund, that's solidarity economy. Or sometimes people are like, "I'm not gonna buy anything this year. I'm only going to exchange and trade with people." That's also solidarity economy. Or yeah, or even like a thrift store, that could also solidarity. So— Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, I've seen circular economy, but I— Zhou Fang: More circular. Dr. Kirk Adams: Circular is thinking about keeping assets in the community, strengthening the community by generating business activity intentionally within a community. Zhou Fang: Yes, yes. Absolutely. Dr. Kirk Adams: But let's talk about time, so reclaiming time. But I assume that when it dawns on them that if I'm spending all my time in busy activity, I can't really enjoy abundance, and then they think about wanting to have more time to enjoy. Are there certain things that you suggest or things that seem to work for people as far as reclaiming some of their time? Zhou Fang: Yes. Absolutely. That's a great question. What I will say is, start small. Start small. Anything that we want to reclaim, we start small. A lot of us have a New Year resolution, right? And then what happens? Three days later, everything's gone. Because we set these really unrealistic grand goals that we cannot hold ourselves accountable to. So in terms of time, it's such a big concept. If we can now reclaim, say, oh, I worked Monday through Friday, and can I work, I don't know, 15 minutes less every day? 15 minutes, just 15. Can we do that? Can we try, let's start with Wednesday. Maybe on Wednesday I'm gonna work 15 minutes less, and on Friday perhaps, if I'm lucky, maybe I can get out of my office at 4:00 instead of 5:00. So that's one hour back. Zhou Fang: And other ways to reclaim our time in a more incremental way is, oh, can I take a 10-minute break today just to step outside to walk around the neighborhood or to walk around the block? Just 10 minutes. Not too much, and it's not even 30 minutes. Or another way to look at it is, I am actually going to make a pot of tea. I'm going to use five minutes to boil water and make tea, and that is time and rest, both that you can reclaim. And all those things, they are not grand. They are all very small. But really pay attention to how you feel after you are able to, say, take that 10 minutes walk or make that pot of tea or even listen to a music or dance in the kitchen for three minutes. That's something you can get and reclaim for your own wellbeing, for your own life. And it may look small, but if you are able to do that once a week, right, and then it becomes twice a week, and then it becomes every day, if you can get 10, 15 minutes back every single day, that's great. That's big. Dr. Kirk Adams: And then rest. Are you familiar with Tricia Hersey and the Nap Ministry? Zhou Fang: Yes. Oh, I love her. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. [laughs] Me too. So she, for those of you who don't know her, Tricia Hersey has a movement called the Nap Ministry, and she's an African American woman, and she kinda frames rest as an act of resistance. Like, the society wants you to be productive all the time, and you need to resist, you need to resist that. By taking a nap. So we often, my wife and I often will say, "Let's observe the Nap Ministry." Zhou Fang: Aw. I love— Dr. Kirk Adams: And then space. You talk about time, rest, space, imagination. So space, is it creating spaces that are a good fit for the person, the space that is comfortable for them, supports them, aligns with their values? I assume there's not a space that everyone should be trying to achieve. It must be very, very individual. Zhou Fang: Yes. Yeah. Dr. Kirk Adams: So you talked about physical space, and you talked about space in your mind. So if you could talk about that a little bit. Zhou Fang: Yeah. Thank you. I think space is really important. Even for people who say they have a lot of space physically, a lot of us, we just don't have enough head space, because the invisible force is on us, like the news, the information, the pressure of doing more. Like you mentioned, Dr. Kirk, productivity. We have to produce and produce. And that may not look like oppression of own space, but it is. That is squeezing our space out, and a lot of us feel anxious or stressed out or burnt out. That's really our heart space and our head space just being taken away from us and eliminated, and we need to take that back by, how do we take our space back, is one pretty active way, it pretty simple. Zhou Fang: You can use both your imagination or your vision, is to imagine or to think. You are looking outside of a window, right? It could be a physical window. It could be an imaginative window. You're looking outside of the window, and you are trying to look as far as you can, as further as you can. Where do you see? Do you see a tree in the next block, or do you see a mountain further out? Or if you keep reaching your vision, either imaginary or physical, maybe you can even see the edge of the ocean. And that is a lot of space. So I really encourage people to reclaim their space, and using these meditative kind of activities to do that. And also, in real life, sometimes that looks like boundary setting. To set boundary with people, to actually practice that boundary is like, you know what, it's 6:00 PM now. I will take a look at it tomorrow or even later, but right now I can't really do it. So I have to protect and respect, rather, I have to respect my own boundary to not take up too much of my precious space. So boundary is a really good way to protect space as well. Dr. Kirk Adams: So creating and protecting the space is, it's a mindfulness practice, it sounds like. Zhou Fang: A lot of that is. It is. Yeah. You are right. Dr. Kirk Adams: 'Cause we spend a lot of time in our brain space thinking about things that have already happened or worrying about things that might happen, [laughs] and to create that gracious space. I read the Dao quite a bit, the Lao Tzu Dao, and it talks about living in the present now moment. Which are hard to do, but— Zhou Fang: Easily said than done. Dr. Kirk Adams: Worth working on. Zhou Fang: Yes. I hear that. [laughs] Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, this has been fabulous. I've taken a lot of notes. I look forward to continuing to get to know you better, talking with you more. I will send you information about the Community Coalition for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion. We'd love to welcome you there. And what else would you like people to know, Zhou? How can they get in touch with you? How can they engage with you and tap into your intersectionality and abundance wisdom? Zhou Fang: Oh, thank you. I'm also a student. I practice, I teach, but very importantly, I learn. So I would love to be students together and learn together, and thank you so much for having me today, Dr. Kirk, talking about intersectionality and abundance. And if folks want to find me, you can go to https://www.abundancewithzhou.com. So, abundance with— Dr. Kirk Adams: And Zhou is spelled? Zhou Fang: Z-H-O-U. Z as in zebra— Dr. Kirk Adams: Abundance with Zhou, Z-H-O-U— Zhou Fang: Dot com. Dr. Kirk Adams: Dot com. Zhou Fang: Yep, that will be great, and you will find my contact information there, my email address, and if you are in the Pacific Northwest, I would love to meet you as well, or virtually online. So really looking forward to that. And thank you again so much. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Oh, it was so much fun. I can be reached at my website, which is D-R as in doctor, https://drkirkadams.com. I have a newsletter you could sign up for. You can find information about the community coalition and other things I'm involved in. I'm on LinkedIn every business day. Kirk Adams, PhD on LinkedIn. And Zhou, this has been a delight. Everyone go to https://abundancewithzhou.com and connect with her. Come to https://drkirkadams.com and connect with me, and let's build this community together. Let's learn from one another and teach one another. Zhou Fang: Yes. Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. Dr. Kirk Adams: Absolutely. So we'll say goodbye for now, and we'll catch y'all later on the next episode of Podcasts with Dr. Kirk Adams. Podcast Commentator: Thank you for listening to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, share or leave a review at https://www.drkirkadams.com. Together, we can amplify these voices and create positive change. Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep making an impact.

3. 

   17 Sept 2026

   Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with Stephanie Sanders, Owner and CEO, Walk In Thought Productions, LLC

   🎙️ Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with Stephanie Sanders, Owner and CEO, Walk In Thought Productions, LLCE https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-by-dr-kirk-adams-09-17-2026/ In this warm episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, Kirk welcomes Stephanie D. Sanders, a transformational motivational speaker and performer from Lakeland, Florida, who first wrote to him years ago when he was president and CEO of the American Foundation for the Blind, and who later met him in person at the National Federation of the Blind convention in Orlando. Stephanie tells her story from the beginning: legally blind in one eye since birth but undiagnosed until kindergarten, treated through the University of Florida, and raised as the youngest of three by a mother who did not yet know why her daughter kept giving the wrong answer. She describes refusing to let her vision define her, the sports and cheerleading years, the basketball injury that ended her track-and-field and Olympic hopes, and the pivot that followed into sports announcing, a mass communications degree in radio, television and film production, and a career in entertainment. From there the conversation follows her from a Seattle radio station in the early 1990s to Los Angeles, where an improv workshop at the Hollywood Black Film Festival drew unexpected praise from actress Cee Cee Michaela and convinced her to make the move. She talks about her CD, book and audiobook One More Day, sings a few lines of her song Hold On Tight on air, and joins Kirk in a candid exchange about intersectionality, privilege and disclosure, in which he recounts negotiating a car by telephone as Dr. Kirk Adams and then losing interviews the moment he walked in with a long white cane. Both return repeatedly to faith, resilience and the value of community, and the episode closes with how to reach Stephanie and with Kirk's invitation to join the Community Coalition at the Institute for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion. TRANSCRIPT: Podcast Commentator: Welcome to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, Dr. Kirk Adams. Dr. Kirk Adams: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. I am that Dr. Kirk Adams, talking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington. And today I have a guest that I've known for quite some years now. It's Stephanie D. Sanders. Stephanie hails from Florida, born and raised. She is a transformational motivational speaker and performer. And say hello, Stephanie. Stephanie D. Sanders: Hello, everybody. Dr. Kirk Adams: Great. We'll be back to you shortly. So for those of you who don't know me, I'm the immediate past president and CEO of the American Foundation for the Blind. And I'm a blind person. My retinas detached when I was five years old. And in 2016, I was president and CEO of the Lighthouse for the Blind here in Seattle, and I was given the opportunity to move to New York and then to Washington, DC, and lead the American Foundation for the Blind through a turnaround process. The organization was founded in 1921. Helen Keller was their global ambassador from 1924 until she passed away in 1968. And at the time I was given the opportunity to lead the iconic AFB, they were in a severe financial downward spiral. And I spent six years working with a great team of staff, board members. And we did some difficult but necessary things to put AFB back on track. And during that time, I received contact from Stephanie, who said, I admire what American Foundation for the Blind is doing, and I would love to become part of the organization. I am a motivational speaker. I'm a performer. I think I could lend my talents to the good work. And unfortunately, we were eliminating positions and laying people off in order to cut expenses. So the timing didn't work out well for that. But Stephanie and I had a few conversations. I learned she lived in Orlando, and I was headed to Orlando for the National Federation of the Blind conference, and we arranged to meet. And we met in the conference hotel and had a great conversation, and we've kept in touch since. Stephanie is a very inspirational person, a very talented person. I am honored to be considered her friend. And it's great to have you here on the podcast, Stephanie. I want to just hand the microphone to you and ask you to tell listeners your story. And I guess, where have you been? What brought you to where you are now, and how are things now, and where do you see things going? What's your vision for the future? What are you working to accomplish? And then we'll let people know how they can get in touch with you. I'll, as the host, I will sit here and listen. And if a question occurs to me, I will interrupt you and ask you questions. So be — I don't know what they'll be, because I don't know what you're going to say. But here we are, Stephanie. It's a pleasure to have you. The floor is yours. Stephanie D. Sanders: Thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate it very, very much, for the opportunity to actually be here, just hanging out with you and talking to the people. Yes, I am Stephanie D. Sanders. And I always say, now don't forget the D. That is my middle initial, but it makes a difference when you put me in Google. But I am originally here from Central Florida, and I'm actually from Lakeland, Florida, but I'm very, very close to Orlando, right in between actually Orlando and Tampa. And like Mr. Adams said, I had the opportunity to connect with him years ago when I wanted to start to get more involved with the visually impaired and blind community, because I grew up actually as a legally blind child in one eye, but they didn't find out until I went to kindergarten. And so just imagine those first five years, and your mother's a teacher, and she's trying to teach you things before you go to school, and you're saying the wrong answer. That didn't go over too well for a while. And she actually apologized to me later when I was an adult. She was like, I'm so sorry, I was tough on you. I did not know that I had a visual impairment at that time. So it's actually been since birth. And went to University of Florida for some research for several months, I believe it was, as they tried to help me out in making my vision at least better in one eye. Yeah, they tried both, but it only turned out to be in one eye that they could help me more to have some vision. So then I kind of moved on and transitioned into teenage years and growing up. And I tell you, even though I had and still have a visual impairment, I absolutely, positively never let that deter me, discourage me in any way, shape or form. And I know that had to be God just instilling something, just that self motivation within myself, to not even pigeonhole myself at times into only being a visually impaired person. People saw me, they saw that I would wear glasses one day. Another day I would wear a patch, another day I would wear contacts, lost them several times. So mom was like — mom and dad are like, no, that is way too expensive. Yeah. And at that time, you were only getting one contact a year. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Let me — a couple things. So visual impairment, blindness, legal blindness means a lot of different things. Like I'm totally blind. I have been since I was five, when my retinas detached. Most people who are legally blind or visually impaired have some level of vision, usable vision. Some people can see shapes, some people can tell the difference between light and dark. Some people's vision change. Some people have night blindness. They kind of see okay during the day, but not at night. Some people day to day, like sometimes their vision is pretty good, sometimes it's not very good. And then there's progressive conditions like retinitis pigmentosa. I know lots of people with RP who don't really know they have a visual impairment till maybe they're eight, nine, ten, 15, 20 years old, and then they discover they have retinitis pigmentosa, starting with usually difficulty seeing at night, and progressively lose the peripheral vision until people are just looking through a tunnel. Then there's macular, where people lose the central vision. They can only see out of the sides. So it's a one size does not fit all. Stephanie D. Sanders: So it— Dr. Kirk Adams: Really does. Your experience and my experience with visual impairment is obviously very different. You grew up in Florida. I grew up in little towns in Washington and Oregon. So definitely different backgrounds. But tell me about your family. Were there brothers and sisters too? Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes, actually, I have one brother and one sister, and they're both older, so I'm the baby of the family. And I played my role. I accepted that role as the baby in the family. I didn't abuse it, though. I didn't abuse it. I just had to watch my siblings and how things were going for them and mistakes they might have made here and there. And I'm like, oh, I'm not going to do that. Dr. Kirk Adams: I have one younger brother and one sister who's quite a bit younger, and she's definitely the baby in some ways. We still kid her, because my dad's famous line was, I don't care what's going on, I just don't want to hear her cry. Stephanie D. Sanders: Right. I was a bit of a tomboy. I was like a rough and tough, and just into anything and everything that was going on around me and in the neighborhood. We had kids in the neighborhood, so it was a really good time. Dr. Kirk Adams: City, country? What kind of neighborhood? Stephanie D. Sanders: Ours was in the city. It wasn't like city city, but it wasn't country either. We were kind of like right in the middle. And it was great. It was great. But see, I wish kids could get that experience that we had growing up without some of the technology right now. It just made us, I think, better kids just all around. We were just out and about, all outside. It made you more— Dr. Kirk Adams: When the street lights come on, come home. Stephanie D. Sanders: Exactly. You had to be creative like nobody's business, to go outside when your parents told you to go outside and play. Okay, where are we going? Out to play. Yeah, let's do something. Or let's make a tribe. Let's push the little dog in the stroller. We did all kinds of things. And I used to wrap my dog up, [unclear 00:10:26] a little baby. But she didn't care that I had on glasses. I mean, they were a little thick, but nonetheless, I tell you, I can look at it and laugh now, because I really did not allow that to hinder me or stifle me in any way. I just kind of used my — well, I won't say good, I— Dr. Kirk Adams: You had usable. You had some usable vision, right? Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes, I just use that, and I just kept moving and getting along and trying to keep up with everybody else, even though I was the baby. Yeah, I ended up transitioning on to high school and playing sports and cheerleading. I mean, literally whatever I found in my heart to do, athletic wise, or cheering and dancing, I did it. And that's why it's so important for me to talk to people about resilience and having a personal self-motivation within themselves, because a lot of times you may not get the motivation that you seek from other people, but you've got to find it within yourself to keep going and pressing on, even though you know it may be rough at times. You have to find another way to get the job done and make things work for you, no matter what the situation is. And that's what I did. I just kept going and went on to college. And even there, I just jumped right in head first into communication. Dr. Kirk Adams: What did you study? Stephanie D. Sanders: I studied mass communications, radio, television and film production. Yes. And I ended up doing several television shows at the college TV station. And I had already begun doing some radio work. I started announcing sports for two minutes, five minutes every Saturday. Dr. Kirk Adams: All right. Stephanie D. Sanders: And I went on to do that. And the goal was to end up at ESPN. But I started turning towards entertainment more, because I did love entertainment, even from childhood. So I just kind of gravitated towards that. Dr. Kirk Adams: And it sounds like your motivational, transformational speaking, from what you just said, is centered around resilience. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes, yes, very much so. And taking situations and problems and making them work for you, no matter what. That is making it work. It may not necessarily work exactly to the way that you wanted it to, but you still have an opportunity to make it work and come out with some sort of answer or resolution to whatever you were trying to get towards. Because sometimes we look at things like, it's got to happen this way, or nothing is going to happen. And that's not always the case. And I had to find that out for myself. We may see things and want things in a certain way, but a lot of other times it will happen, but it will happen in a different way. So that's why I like to say now — and this just kind of popped out during a speech when I said one time, I can do anything. But I said we, because it was a group of us. I said, we can do anything that we set our minds to do, but we might have to do things differently. And that's okay. Because even with us as visually impaired people or blind people, we can still do certain things. I've met so many people at some of the conventions and things who are doing much more than people think that we can do. And I was just so amazed and really happy about it, because I had not been involved with any groups or anything, all the way up until the time that I contacted you. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. And that's interesting, because community is so important. So I went to a school for blind kids first, second and third grade, and then off to regular public school. I learned how to read and write Braille and use the long white cane and type on a typewriter. So I had the skills to be in the public school, and I'd get my textbooks in Braille. And then if there were tests or papers or spelling tests, I would type on a typewriter. But I was always the only blind kid in my school. So I lived in small towns, small country towns. And I went through college — no other blind kids, no other blind students at my small college. And then I went into the banking finance industry for ten years, and no people who were apparently blind or visually impaired in any of my work settings. And then when I was around 30, I decided to transition into the nonprofit sector. And my first nonprofit job was, I was a development officer for the Seattle Public Library Foundation. I was raising money for the state Talking Book and Braille Library, and my office was actually at the Talking Book and Braille Library. So all of a sudden I was around lots of blind people and got connected through the work with the National Federation of the Blind of Washington and the Washington Council of the Blind, and visited the school for the blind. And all of a sudden I found all these people, just like you were saying, people who've had similar and different pathways through the lived experience of being blind and visually impaired, people who are doing amazing things. And it was — you know, I'm 65 years old, so I became blind in 1966. So my parents were 25 years old. They'd never met a blind person in their life before. My retinas detached and we were not connected with anybody. They didn't know any other blind — they didn't know any other parents of blind kids. I didn't have any blind role models. But now, with the technology we have, you said, put Stephanie D. Sanders into the search engine, people can find you. But we can find each other now. We can connect now. You and I live 3,000 miles apart, and we've kept in touch through technology. And here we are recording this podcast together with technology. So I just wanted to emphasize the importance of community. And I know you are very interested in building and supporting community. And you talk about motivational speaking and speaking to groups, but you also say motivational, transformational speaker and performer. So I'd love to hear about the performance part. You said you had the ESPN goal, and then you started thinking maybe entertainment. So yes, I'd love to hear about that, and what led you to be a performer, and what your performances entail, and how do you use performance to motivate people and to build community? Stephanie D. Sanders: Well, I know the gifts came from one, God, and then through my mother, because my mother sang opera and gospel music, and I know they came from her. But the thing about it was, I did not sound like Whitney Houston initially in the beginning. So my little dreams were shattered initially. But it didn't stop me. I took that little red radio in the bathroom, and I would just practice for like an hour and come out sweating. But I started singing. And then once I decided to sing— Dr. Kirk Adams: And how old were you then? Stephanie D. Sanders: I started singing just in general — I know I was in my very early teens. And I would sing at home, but I had never sung or anything like that until maybe my senior year in high school, when they had a talent show. And that was my very first time singing. And I did a pretty good job. Dr. Kirk Adams: Do you remember what you sang? Stephanie D. Sanders: It was Anita Baker. I want to say, Caught Up in the Rapture, by Anita Baker. Dr. Kirk Adams: I know it well. Stephanie D. Sanders: And I sang the song. I was nervous, so I just focused in on one of my friends through most of the time. And after that, I really didn't sing much more, because I was focused on sports and wanting to go to college and the Olympics. And I ended up getting injured. Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh. What were your sports of choice? Stephanie D. Sanders: My sports of choice was basketball and track and field. I wanted to go to college for track and field and to the Olympics for track and field. Dr. Kirk Adams: Wow. Yeah. You had some aspirations. Stephanie D. Sanders: Oh, yes. I tell you, I did, because that was just a part of me and who I was. But when the show — I don't know if people remember that television show Fame. Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, yeah. With Coco. Stephanie D. Sanders: [Debbie Allen? 00:20:12] and — oh my God. Yeah. And that show came out, I just lost my marbles, because it was something inside of me just fired off. And I was like that. I didn't even say it, but I could feel it. That's me. That's me. So before I even got out of high school, I was already looking, where was I going to go? Was I going to go to a school of the arts, if this school was a real school? Or was I going to go for sports? So I tried both of them, and then I ended up getting injured in a sport, basketball. And that kind of ruined my chances there for track and field. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. That does happen to people. Stephanie D. Sanders: And I left that alone. And so I said to myself, okay, well, if you can't play sports, what about announcing? So that's when I started doing the sports announcing for the radio station. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Stephanie D. Sanders: And then when I got to college, that shifted to not only doing some sports announcing, but it turned into entertainment hosting and reporting for the college station. So that's how I kind of transitioned over into that. And that's kind of where I've been at at this point. I moved on and started working with a production company for voiceovers, and did that for about — I think I did that for about six months as an intern, and then as a part time employee in Atlanta. Then I found a person and he found me, once again, and through a pen pal service. And I ended up in Seattle. He was out there working. And so I went out there, and we were thinking and planning on getting married and all of that. So I went out to Seattle and started working at a radio station. And so I worked out there for about four or five years at a radio station there. Dr. Kirk Adams: I don't think I knew you were in Seattle at one point. Very interesting. Stephanie D. Sanders: Was it? I think it was 1993. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Yeah, I was here. We hadn't met yet. I was here. Stephanie D. Sanders: And I worked at the radio station for five, and maybe two years. No, because by 2000 we moved to Los Angeles, after going to the Hollywood Black Film Festival. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Stephanie D. Sanders: And what did we want to do that for? Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, I— Stephanie D. Sanders: Know. Boy. Moved to LA. I mean, we went to the Hollywood Black Film Festival to volunteer and got to know more about the place and everything. I ended up in a workshop where we had to do an improv performance. And I was dressed up, and the man told me what I had to do. And I just let loose. I didn't hold back. And it was just natural for me. And I was down there rolling around on the ground in my little dress suit and everything, doing the whole improv. And I hopped up and I went to sit down. I was sweating, and I started sweating. And as I was going to sit down, there was a lady that rushed up to me and hugged me like she knew me. And she just told me how good it was and how just authentic it was. And I was surprised. No one other than one other person had ever talked to me like that. And found out that she was Cee Cee Michaela. She played the officer on a television show, Girlfriends. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Stephanie D. Sanders: She was like a nutty kind of a security guard. Dr. Kirk Adams: All right. Stephanie D. Sanders: So she told me — we talked for a while. She walked me to the car with her left hand, and she told me I should consider moving to LA. She's like, you've got it. And so we did. I think it took about a year and a half later, we moved to LA. Dr. Kirk Adams: All right. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yeah. So I tell you, I did. This little train has been moving for a while. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yes. Stephanie D. Sanders: And I like it. It's just like [unclear 00:24:45] almost non-stop. And sometimes people ask folks like me, creatives and things like that, but why do you do what you do? Why do you keep doing it? Well, because I haven't reached the goals that I want to. There's certain goals in my mind that I would like to get to, and then be able to produce my own projects for television and film, and continue doing my music and speaking. Those are big for me. So when you feel it like that, and you know it's something you can't shake, and when you recognize that, you've got to just dig deep, put your heels in there and keep going. Because hearing that — that's why I wrote my book, One More Day. Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, okay. Let's hear about the book. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes. Actually, I came out with a CD entitled One More Day. And then I said, okay, I need to expand that, because there's a place where these songs came from. And I expanded it and went ahead and wrote the book entitled One More Day, and recorded my own voiceover audiobook with the same title. And that's where all of that came from. There are about three or four different scenarios that are in that book that had happened in my life. It just led me to a point of realizing, if you're not really doing what you feel led in your heart to do, I mean, it could literally feel like you're dying, because it's such a deep passion inside of you to give what you were called to do and to use the gifts and talents that we have. Dr. Kirk Adams: Right? Stephanie D. Sanders: And when you use them, it's really like an adrenaline rush, because you're releasing those things that are already inside of you. And there's so many things that we have inside of us that people need. But if we don't use them, and if we don't give them, then someone may not get what you have to give. Dr. Kirk Adams: Right? Stephanie D. Sanders: So we have to be open and stay open and available to using our gifts and talents to the fullest. Dr. Kirk Adams: And being able — your purpose and your passion. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes. Exactly. Yes. And I realized that— Dr. Kirk Adams: I'm interrupting you before I forget this thought. I'm going to misquote it, and I can't attribute who said it, so I'm not going to try. But there's an aphorism that says that the place you should live is where your deep passion meets the world's deep need. So you are fulfilling a need that the world has. At the same time, you are living out your passion and your purpose. So that sounds a lot like what you've been striving to do. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes, yes, I definitely would say that. I definitely would say that, because you feel a passion not only for what you do, but a passion for the people who can receive it. And I mean, I've been in certain places or situations — like most of the material that I have is inspirational type of music, and some is motivational, some is love oriented. But I remember a time when I was in a group, and I was just singing with the group because the gentleman, one of the gentlemen in the group, was my producer. And it was in a club setting. I was used to going to a club setting and still singing my inspirational material. I had no problem, and I went ahead and did my two or three songs. And by the time I got down, it was a lady waiting on the side, and she had a drink in her hand, but she wasn't drinking it. She walked up to me and she just told me — she leaned over in my ear and told me that that song really touched her, and the message, she really enjoyed the message, and where can she get it? And so I told her that it was available on Amazon, and I also had one with me. And so she went ahead and got that. Dr. Kirk Adams: And that's the One More Day album. Stephanie D. Sanders: The One More Day album. Yes. Dr. Kirk Adams: And people can find that on Amazon. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes. They can find that on Amazon. Dr. Kirk Adams: Get One More Day, by Stephanie D. Sanders. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes, sir. And there's going to be some more material coming out from that. It's just a different spin off from the actual singing style, but I'm going to be coming out with some new material. Well, it'll be new in a sense. The delivery is going to be different. And it's coming up really soon, along with some other material that I have for children and so forth. I'm trying to give it away. But you know. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. It's going to be a surprise. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yeah. That's kind of how I like to function when I do things. A life coach had told me once before to move in silence, especially while you're working on certain things and you're doing them, to move in silence to a certain degree. And I had already been doing that, but it just put an emphasis on it. And then when it's ready and you have it out there, it's like, boom. I'm popping out with it. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, I like it. Stephanie D. Sanders: Where have you been? Where have you been doing? Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, you make sure to let me know when the boom happens, so I can spread the word across my platforms in my social network. So I do want to talk a little bit about intersectionality. So you're an African American woman. I'm a white male. I'm married to an African American woman. We just had our 41st wedding anniversary. Stephanie D. Sanders: That's what I want. Dr. Kirk Adams: We met when we were in college, when we were 18. We have two adult children. Her son will be 40 this year. Our daughter is 36. Then we have a couple grandchildren. And as a person of color, a woman, a person with a visual impairment, you're experiencing a lot of dynamics of stereotypes and misperceptions and structural barriers. And I understand privilege, and I understand my white male privilege. And then I understand when people find out I'm blind, that the white male privilege dynamic shifts, and shifts quite a bit. So I had an instance where our daughter — this is during the time of the pandemic, she was living in New York City, and she bailed out of there because that was kind of the epicenter of the pandemic. She came and stayed with us in our apartment in Arlington, Virginia, for a while. And then she decided she was going to move back to Los Angeles, and she wanted a car. So she did her research, and she figured out it was cheaper for her to buy a car in Virginia and put it on a train out to California, rather than buy it in California and pay the taxes. So she did the research and found the car that she wanted. It was a Honda Fit. She had certain criteria, and she said, Dad, I want you to call these five car dealers and tell them you are Dr. Kirk Adams and you want to buy the car and you're going to pay cash and you want it tomorrow. And what price can you get? So I called and made these calls. I'm Dr. Kirk Adams. I want to buy a Honda Fit. And of course it's not for me, because I can't drive because I'm blind. But I didn't say that. And you know, I started out with 225 and I got it. I [found it to her? 00:33:05] for 17,000. And then she and my wife, who's African American, walked in the next day and bought the car for Rachel. So I had that experience, which I believe my experience would have been different than if a 25 year old young lady was calling. And then when I was applying for jobs, first thing out of college, I had the experience where I would send in a resume and an application for a job. And at that time it was all on paper. So I sent my resume and my nice cover letter on nice paper. And sometimes I'd get a call, and it was oftentimes a phone interview, and I'd do the phone interview. These were banking and finance jobs, and the phone interview would go great. I was an econ major. I had a four point. I had a Phi Beta Kappa, cum laude, and all that stuff that those employers liked in the entry level employee. And they'd invite me in for the in-person interview. Then I'd walk in with my long white cane, and I'd have a slate and stylus so I could take some notes in Braille. And then the confusion would set in on the room, because the employer would be looking at me and thinking, how in the heck could this blind kid do this job he's applying for? So I wasn't getting hired. And I had that experience numerous times. And then I started disclosing in my cover letter. I started saying, I'm blind, I have been since age five, here's how I've accomplished all these things that I've listed on my resume, here's how I'll do this job. And then I wasn't even getting the phone interviews. So I just wonder if you have any reflections on experiences you've had as a Black woman trying to accomplish all these things that you've aspired to, and a person with a visual impairment. Any thoughts or reflections on the things I've just said. Stephanie D. Sanders: I remember there was one time or two when I was trying to — I think it was a cheerleading team or something. Well, I had two different cheerleading experiences. And I think they were a little hesitant because I had a visual impairment. You really can't see it unless I tell you, or unless my eyes kind of cross up a little bit every blue moon. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Stephanie D. Sanders: Every blue moon. And it was something like that. And then as a Black woman, there have been other times in stores or things like that. I wonder at times when I would submit for certain jobs or whatnot, I wonder about some of that. And even now you wonder about certain things, when you see quite a few people doing particular jobs or whatever the case may be. And you wonder, where was I at? I was somewhere. I was somewhere, and I was literally the only person in the room. No, two of us. But I was there because I was singing. A friend of mine who was Caucasian, she told the people about me, and I was in the room. And at that time I was the only one, until a gentleman came that I knew of. But he had been a commissioner, so he was used to coming to certain events and things like that. So they didn't treat me any different at that time, once I got there. But sometimes you wonder about things like that, that happen in life. And you wonder, did you get that role? You know, did you not get that role, or did you not get that audition for certain things because of this, that or the other? Because a lot of times on the auditions, they'll say like, all ethnicities, you can submit for it. But you wonder at times, do they already have something in mind, but just leaving it open to be fair, you know? Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. I mean, I didn't want to dwell on it, but when you said a couple of things, you said, just made me think of bringing it forward. I think it's good to be open and authentic that way. We live in a racist, ableist, misogynistic society. So I think it's good to acknowledge that. Stephanie D. Sanders: Well, and then this will be a personal thing for me. Most of the time, I don't even think about it, you know, when it comes to that, because I think to myself, okay, whatever God wants me to have, I'm going to get it anyway. Dr. Kirk Adams: Gotcha. Stephanie D. Sanders: Earlier on in my audition process, I would go in and I would try to be this, and I would try to be this, and you know what I'm saying? And it wasn't until after maybe that audition I had done in Los Angeles, I was like, wait a minute. Yes, you can be the character when you go in there, but you need to reel that back in and just be yourself. Be the character, be yourself. You don't have to try and transform completely like that. Dr. Kirk Adams: Right. Stephanie D. Sanders: And after that moment, I just never, ever — even when people say, oh, that's such a competitive field, whatever. Okay. And what? That means nothing to me, because I'm still going to submit. I'm still going to do my thing. I'm still going to write letters to people. I'm still going to reach out. Yeah, one of my bosses told me in Los Angeles, when I'm writing to certain people and whatnot, go to the top, write to the person at the top. Henceforth, I wrote to you. Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Stephanie D. Sanders: I contacted you when you were the president. And it's like he told me, because even if you can't get to them, they can at least bring you down and send you down to wherever you can communicate with someone. But they still know you now, and they know your name now. So I've just been grateful to have a mindset like, I don't care if a billion people submit for this audition, I'm going to submit if I feel that I can do it. If I feel that I can do whatever, I'm going to submit, and that's it. Once I do, then I let it go. And I move on. Dr. Kirk Adams: And you've mentioned your faith a couple of times. Would you like to talk about how important that is to you? Stephanie D. Sanders: Yes. Thank you, I appreciate that. My faith is definitely important to me. Instilled from a young age, and didn't really grasp hold of it for myself personally until I went to college. And at first Sunday I said, I'm not going to church. I'm not going anymore. I went all the time. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Mama made me. Stephanie D. Sanders: I did not go the first time. Ooh. Dr. Kirk Adams: That messed— Stephanie D. Sanders: With me. With me, it's like, ooh, I feel really bad right now. I went the next Sunday, and it was just enlightening, just refreshing and everything. And I was like, this is when you have to decide that thing for yourself. And that's what I did. And just continue to get better each year. And age has definitely helped out. I still won't ever reach the pinnacle, but I just keep moving forward, to keep trusting and believing that God has the very best out there for me in every aspect of life. I mean, from love to relationships, business, career things and so forth. Dr. Kirk Adams: So, yeah. Stephanie D. Sanders: There are times when, you know, you feel like, oh my goodness, why didn't I get that? Why didn't I get that? So come on, come on, come on. I'm like, come on, come on, come on, Lord, it's right here. But then I have to step back and just say, you need to calm down. Yeah. Because whatever is for you is going to be for you. And I just have to keep trusting and believing that in his timing, it'll all work out. I know we get frustrated. Now please trust and believe, I understand that. Yeah, because I've gotten frustrated at times from a relationship, not having one, desiring one, and career things, especially with the entertainment. But I just have to, like my song says, you've got to just keep holding on. And it's called Hold On Tight. I almost started singing it right there. I almost burst out and start singing the chorus. Dr. Kirk Adams: Feel free, Stephanie. If you're comfortable, give us at least a couple lines. Stephanie D. Sanders: Sure, I will. Okay. Hold on tight and don't give up the fight. If you hold on tight, it will be alright. Dr. Kirk Adams: Stephanie Sanders, ladies and gentlemen. Stephanie D. Sanders: Yay! Yes! Dr. Kirk Adams: And so if people are interested in talking to you about coming to speak to a group, or if people want to listen to your music or read your book, what's the best way for people to get in touch? Stephanie D. Sanders: They can actually email me at bookstephaniedsanders@yahoo.com, or you can go ahead and reach out to me online. Facebook, on Instagram, on TikTok, because I will answer. And we can definitely just make this happen, because I tell you, like my coach told me, I'm like an Amtrak train with no gears and no brakes. Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, everyone, reach out to Stephanie D. Sanders. In my mind, the D is for delightful. I don't know what your middle name is, but that's how I remember to never forget the D, because you are a delightful person. And so reach out. bookstephaniedsanders@yahoo.com, or Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Stephanie D. Sanders. Please reach out to her. She'll be a ray of sunshine in your day if you do. Stephanie D. Sanders: Absolutely. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yes. And as for me, my website is Dr. Kirk Adams, [unclear 00:44:48] https://drkirkadams.com. And I have a newsletter sign up there. I'm also on LinkedIn a lot. So it's Kirk Adams, PhD. I'm also, Stephanie, I'm serving as the executive director for a nonprofit based here called the Institute for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion. And we just launched a Community Coalition, which is a membership organization that people can join and join forces with other people who are passionate about diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, belonging, social justice, human dignity. So I'd love to talk to anyone out there about the Coalition. So please reach out to Stephanie. Reach out to me. Reach out to each other. Let's build this community together. And Stephanie, I'm so glad that you reached out to me those many years ago when I was at AFB. I'm glad we met and had that heart to heart conversation in that busy hotel lobby during the NFB convention in Orlando. And I'm so glad we've kept in touch. And thank you for blessing us with a little bit of your song. Oh, beautiful. And you're beautiful. And you have a great rest of your day. Stephanie D. Sanders: Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you, everybody. Dr. Kirk Adams: Yep. Thanks. We'll see you next time on another episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. Podcast Commentator: Thank you for listening to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, share or leave a review at https://www.drkirkadams.com. Together, we can amplify these voices and create positive change. Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep making an impact.

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