Refugia

About Refugia

Host Debra Rienstra interviews a different guest each week, exploring the idea of refugia from a variety of perspectives, from biology to worship to politics. Refugia are places of shelter where life endures in times of crisis. We’re exploring what it means for people of faith to be people of refugia. refugianewsletter.substack.com (https://refugianewsletter.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast)

Publisher

Debra Rienstra

Category

religion & spirituality · science

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

6 Sept 2019

Latest episode

9 Nov 2025

Latest episodes

42 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   9 Nov 2025

   Refugia Podcast Episode 40

   Our final episode of Season 4! This week, we travel to Hawaii with a whole troop of good people to visit some remarkable refugia spaces near Kaneohe Bay on Oahu. This episode, produced by Colin Hoogerwerf and Jim Stump, first aired on the Language of God podcast in April of 2025. To learn more about the Language of God podcast, visit their website here (https://biologos.org/podcasts/language-of-god). Language of God is produced by Biologos (https://biologos.org/), an organization that promotes greater understanding and appreciation of science for people of faith. In this episode, we visit First Presbyterian Church of Honolulu (https://www.fpchawaii.org/), the Hoʻokuaʻāina kalo farm (https://hookuaaina.org/), and the Waikalua Loco fish pond (https://www.thepaf.org/waikalua/). This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit refugianewsletter.substack.com (https://refugianewsletter.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

2. 

   2 Nov 2025

   Refugia Podcast Episode 39

   Christina Bagaglio Slentz is Associate Director for Creation Care for the Catholic Diocese of San Diego (https://sdcatholic.org/). Learn about how her diocese prioritizes climate action here (https://sdcatholic.org/life-peace-and-justice/care-for-creation/). In this episode, we often refer to Pope Francis’ encyclical Laudato si’ (https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html) and the ways that faith communities are living out its stated goals (https://laudatosiactionplatform.org/laudato-si-goals/). We also discuss the theme “seeds of peace and hope,” the official theme for the 2025 ecumenical Season of Creation (https://seasonofcreation.org/). Many thanks to Christina for sharing her wisdom in this conversation! Christina Slentz TRANSCRIPT Christina Slentz I think this really can help us understand the way that the cry of the Earth, these environmental climate extremes, or the variability that we’re experiencing, leads to greater exposure—but how one community can face that exposure and adapt or bounce back fairly quickly and another may not really have that capacity. Debra Rienstra Welcome to the Refugia Podcast. I’m your host, Professor Debra Rienstra. Refugia are habitats in nature where life endures in times of crisis. We’re exploring the concept of refugia as a metaphor, discovering how people of faith can become people of refugia: nurturing life-giving spaces in the earth, in our human cultural systems, and in our spiritual communities, even in this time of severe disturbance. This season, we’re paying special attention to churches and Christian communities who have figured out how to address the climate crisis together as an essential aspect of their discipleship. Today, I’m talking with Dr. Christina Bagaglio Slentz, Associate Director for Creation Care at the Catholic Diocese of San Diego. Christina has a background in sociology, with a PhD in international studies and global affairs. She’s also a Navy veteran. Today, she serves a diocese of 97 parishes, helping to guide and empower people in their creation care work. The Diocese of San Diego is a microcosm of diverse biomes and diverse people, and it’s a fascinating example of refugia, because as a diocese, they are doing all the things. Christina and I talk about Laudato si’, solar energy, economics, eco spirituality, environmental justice advocacy, the centrality of the Eucharist, and the mutuality between caring for neighbor and caring for the Earth. Let’s get to it. Debra Rienstra Christina, thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate talking to you. Christina Slentz Thank you, Debra, for having me. I’m really excited to be here. Debra Rienstra So I am eager to hear more about the Diocese of San Diego, because it seems that you have been very intentional and thoughtful and ambitious about your creation care agenda, and we’re going to get into the details of that in just a minute, but I want to start with you. So tell us your hero origin story. How did you get into faith-based environmental work and into your current position? Christina Slentz Well, to be honest, I never saw it coming in many ways. I was working in the global affairs area, looking at sources of conflict and cooperation and how political economy intersects with those dynamics, and that was my academic area of focus. And at the same time, I’ve always been a catechist in the Catholic church since the 90s, and my church life was pretty comfortable, I would say, and active. But I didn’t really see those two things coming together until Laudato si’, the encyclical written by Pope Francis on the care of our common home, was released in 2015, and this really started to bring more overlap between these two areas in my life. And I would say, increasingly, then there was a lot of interplay between those focus areas for me. And eventually this position became available in the Diocese of San Diego, and a friend mentioned it to me, and I thought that is actually the perfect vocation for me. And I really feel like I understood it to be a vocation, not just a job. Debra Rienstra Yeah, I think I can relate to everything you just said. I think we came to this work from different areas of specialty, but yeah, like you, I feel like we’ve had these mid-career shifts where suddenly our area of specialty—in my case, literature and creative writing—has become energized by—in your case, Laudato si’, in my case, other documents as well as Laudato si’,—and we’ve sort of taken this fascinating and yeah, I would agree, vocational, turn. So let’s talk a little bit more about Laudato si’. I imagine our listeners know at least a little bit about it. It’s been so enormously influential. It’s such an amazing landmark document. Could you talk a little bit about how you’ve seen Laudato si’ diffuse through the Catholic Church, especially the American Catholic Church? Christina Slentz Yes, I think, to be honest, it has had a complicated journey with the Catholic community here in the United States. Very much like the issue of climate change in the global community, the United States has struggled with these dynamics—I think the way that they involve our economics and some of our very strong ideology about economic freedom and what that means to people. And so I think it’s fair to say that while Laudato si’ was very warmly received around the world, it has struggled in the United States as a whole, and that includes the American Catholic community. That said, there have been—like your description of refugia suggests——there have been these pockets, though, where I think that particular dynamics existed, and there was fertile ground for seeds to be planted. And the Diocese of San Diego is one of them. The Diocese of—the Archdiocese of Atlanta was another. There are a couple around the country, and I do think some footholds were created. In addition, one of the things that is particularly interesting about the encyclical Laudato si’—and an encyclical is just a document that a pope writes and then circulates, right, this is where the word encyclical comes from—circulates around until everyone’s had a chance to read it. We can imagine in medieval times, you know, how this must have been a challenge. And I think that, you know, this challenge exists, but Father Emmett Farrell is the founder of this ministry in my diocese, and Father Emmett just celebrated his 60th anniversary of his ordination, and Father Emmett will say he has never seen an encyclical translate to action the way that Laudato si’ has. And in particular, there is a Vatican online platform called the Laudato si’ Action Platform, where Catholics—either parishes, schools, orders of sisters or religious—can get on this platform and learn about the dynamics that we face. They can see how our values are distilled into seven goals, and then they can reflect on their behavior, using this tool to sort of measure where they are, and then write a plan of action and upload it and share it with each other. And Father Emmett really celebrates how amazing it is that, you know, that we’re going to lean into technology and use it for the good. Debra Rienstra Oh, awesome. There’s so many things I want to follow up on in that answer. And I want to begin by just thanking you for being honest about pushback to Laudato si’ in the US. And I want to go back to that in just a second, if it’s okay. And then I want to thank you for the way you’ve thought about, you know, some of these dioceses like the mighty San Diego and the mighty Atlanta as sort of refugia spaces. And we’ll come back to that again too, I really hope, and I want to hear some more details about your particular diocese. Why do you think there has been pushback in the American Catholic Church? You mentioned economic reasons, and you know, Pope Francis and Pope Leo now have both been very pointed in their critique of climate denial, of greed, of exploitation, injustice, war, economic systems that many Americans have sort of held as almost sacrosanct. So what are you noticing in Catholic conversations about that critique? Why are people resisting the critique and why are people saying, “No, that’s right”—what are the motivations behind each of those responses? Christina Slentz So, you know, we could probably talk about this all day. Debra Rienstra Probably, yeah. Christina Slentz Because economic peace, I think, is really difficult to think about. You know, if we take the United Kingdom, for example, it’s a country very much like the United States. So many of our you know, American culture and tradition and customs come out of that early launching that we experienced from, you know, Great Britain. And yet, as the topic of climate change came forward, Margaret Thatcher, who was, you know, a real compatriot of President Ronald Reagan at the time, she really took the scientific approach in thinking about climate change, and this set them on a path that’s really different from the path that we experienced. And certainly, oil is a big factor in our economy. And I think it can be a real challenge for people to weigh the goods, you know, because we have to be honest, there are goods in both sides of these dynamics. When we understand the gravity, though, of climate change, if we’re allowed to really get into those dynamics without the noise that has been kind of confronting that potential, then I think we can see that the good outweighs, you know, those alternative goods associated with continuing in the fossil fuel realm. But this is why we talk about a just transition, right? I think that many people who are hearing this noise, right, they don’t understand that Pope Francis and others, you know, is really arguing for a just transition, and that would seek to care for the people that are going to be affected by whatever change in economic policy might make. Debra Rienstra Yeah, and more and more, those economic changes are actually positive in favor of transition in ways that they weren’t even 5-10 years ago. Christina Slentz Yeah, I think it’s amazing. We actually had some good momentum going until recently. Debra Rienstra Yeah, you know, I would love to get us all talking about a just and joyful transition, because it’s more and more possible. And maybe we’ll come back to that a little bit later too, when we talk about ecological spirituality. But let’s go back to these places within the American Catholic Church, even, that are saying, “Oh yes, Laudato si’, yes, let’s go.” And San Diego diocese is one of those places. You had an action plan already in 2019. I think it’s impressive that a diocese could get a plan together in four years. So good job. Knowing how long everything takes in church settings. So just give us a list of your accomplishments. What have you been up to since 2019? What are the kinds of things you’ve dipped your toes into? Christina Slentz Sure, and to be fair, I want to give some good credit to some others. You know, the Archdiocese of Atlanta had created their creation care action plan. This gave us some really good kind of framework to think about when we created ours. And there was a team that preceded me. They were all volunteers, very multidisciplinary in their backgrounds, everything from theologians to medical doctors who had worked with indigenous communities, you know, theologians, missionaries, energy engineers, and they really pulled this together early on. And this plan I now recognize as what climate action planners might refer to as an aspirational plan. It’s all the things you could do in our area, and it serves as a really good resource for our parishes and schools as they think about what they might do in their Laudato si’ action platform plans, and those are yearly plans that are really targeted on what we’re going to do. So, you know, one of the things that they did early on was really push to solarize. And you know, we do have the great fortune of, one: climate here in San Diego, right? You know, we’re sort of famous for that. And then you know, two: the other thing is that, you know, it was very normative to be shifting to solar, and continues to be an economic choice that is not really as politicized here as much as it might be elsewhere. And then the third thing was this is, you know, the magic number three is to have a bishop that is supportive. And so Cardinal McElroy—now Cardinal McElroy, then Bishop McElroy—really promoted this solarization. And at this point we have about 54% of our parishes solarized. And when I think now, you know, the Paris Climate Agreement says we want to have about half of our carbon emissions reduced by 2030 then you know, we’re sitting at about half. Our building where I’m located is called our pastoral center. Some Catholic communities call it their chancery. And our solar array here provides over 80% of our electricity to the building. Our local utility is about half renewable energy, a little bit more. So with that in mind, you know, our electricity here to our building is a little over 90% coming from renewable energy, and this lets us have seven electric vehicle charging stations in the parking lot so I can go to work and charge my car at the same time. Debra Rienstra Lovely. Christina Slentz So that was one big thing. I would say our other really big kind of landmark action that also was largely driven by Cardinal McElroy, was to divest of fossil fuels. And, you know, this is a real challenging thing to accomplish. We set a goal of no more than 5% of, you know, the earnings of both direct and indirect investment to be coming from fossil fuel. And after a year, we evaluated how we were doing, and we were actually hitting—not we, you know, the financial folks doing this—were hitting less than 3%. So, you know, we said, “Okay, I think we can say that this was successful, and we’re still here.” So that was really exciting, and we didn’t do it to be virtue signaling. Just, you know, for some of your listeners may not know, but the USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, has a document that directs socially responsible investment for all areas. And so this is just one more area of socially responsible investment that the Diocese of San Diego has embraced. Debra Rienstra Yeah, yeah. So we’ve got money, we’ve got energy. How many parishes would you say are on board with this, doing yearly goals, selecting from the menu of fun ideas—what percentage of your parishes would you say are involved? Christina Slentz So I gotta, Debra, that’s a little bit of a good question. I think, you know, we did just describe two very top-down approaches. And one of the things that our group, you know, when I came on board in 2022, we decided is, you know, we really wanted to push that grassroots. And so we see parishes demonstrating a range of behaviors, and I was initially surprised, but they actually behave a lot like countries around the world. And so, you know, you think, oh, that’s going to be different. But, you know, you can also have three children, and they all behave differently, and you know, sometimes that’s surprising as well, when they have the same parents. And so one of the things that I have really tried to do was offer more events that are here at the diocesan level. We have 97 parishes, and then we have—so sometimes we’ll see individuals that are really on board, and they come from a parish where, at the parish level, not a lot is happening. Sometimes we have individuals that are participating, and they are doing a ton at their parish and succeeding. And then we have parishes where the pastor is leading the charge. And then on top of that, I would say there are parishes where they have solar and they have drought-resistant landscaping, and they have LEED silver certified buildings that, you know, are very environmentally friendly. And yet, you know, at the parishioner level, you know, not as much activity happening. So it is an array of activities. I would say probably half have had some kind of interaction with us, or have had parishioners or students participate in our programs. But you know, we reflect the American Catholic community, which reflects the broader American society as well. So there are places where we struggle, and then there are places where we see a lot of action and shining. Debra Rienstra Yeah, sure. And I really appreciate that. And I think listeners can relate to that range of involvement too. Maybe they are in any one of those categories or some other category themselves. And you know, as you say, it’s the modeling of— even if it’s a minority, it’s the modeling and the enthusiasm and the even implicit sort of educating of others that can make this work spread too. So I want to list the seven goals of the Laudato si’ action platform, because I think they’re really, really great and helpful to people who are not in the Catholic Church, but in other aspects of the church, you might find these goals useful too. So here are the goals: response to the cry of the Earth, response to the cry of the poor, ecological economics, adoption of sustainable lifestyles, ecological education, ecological spirituality, community resilience and empowerment. So I want to start with the first three. We’ve talked a little bit about economics and how dicey that can be, but I wonder if you could describe how you see the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor as basically the same cry, as Pope Francis said in Laudato si’. How do you see that, especially in your region? Christina Slentz Yeah, so thank you. I think these two are kind of the crown jewels, right? And they sum up what we see happening very well. I think that the other goals are valuable because they sort of pull out the dynamics that we really understand as informing those two big—response to the cry of the Earth and cry of the poor. So as someone who was looking at this through the lens of being a social scientist, I found these two goals to really sum it up well, because it is not just the exposure to the environment that causes our concern for these dynamics. It’s the exposure as well as the sensitivity of that population. And then this helps us understand also, maybe some vulnerability that that population might have. So for example, we had significant flooding about a year and a half ago in January, the month of January, and the same rain fell on a parish in the southern part of the Diocese, close to our Mexican border, in an area that is, you know, less wealthy, probably demonstrates some socio economic features that we would associate with marginalized communities. And then it also fell on a parish in Coronado, California. And some people might recognize the Hotel Del Coronado as an iconic location. It’s a beautiful community. There’s a lot of wealth. There’s a lot of human capital as well. You know, very highly educated group, and so the buildings at two of two parishes in each of these locations were completely flooded. But, you know, the parish in Coronado was up on its feet within a week. And of course, they had repairs that had to be done, but they were able to get a hold of those folks, get them in, pay the bills, get it all done. And the parish on the south side had catastrophic flooding to its school, and the school was a total loss. Debra Rienstra Oh, wow. Christina Slentz So I think this really can help us understand the way that the cry of the Earth, these environmental climate extremes, or the variability that we’re experiencing, leads to greater exposure, but how one community can face that exposure and adapt or bounce back fairly quickly, and another may not really have that capacity. And so you can’t really pull them apart, because just measuring precipitation doesn’t always give you the whole story. Debra Rienstra That’s a very, very helpful answer to that. And I sometimes hear in religious circles, you know, “Well, we have to worry about other people, why should we worry about owls or whatever?” And the answer is: well, because what happens in nature affects people. So this is about loving your neighbor. Even if you’re not convinced by the idea that we love the Earth for its own sake because it’s beloved of God, we still have to love our neighbor. And this is a neighbor issue as well. So thank you. That was very helpful as an explanation. Christina Slentz One of my favorite kind of messages is, you know, having been a student of globalization, you know, I think that we live in a globalized world. You can’t put that toothpaste back in the tube, right? Maybe there are some things we can do and that can be helpful, but the bottom line is, our actions have ripple effects, and so no matter what we do, we are going to have these impacts on people far beyond those we know and love on a day to day basis. And when we care for the Earth, we mitigate those effects on people all around the world, and so our caring for creation really is just love of neighbor at global scale. Debra Rienstra Ah, lovely. Yeah, so it works both ways. If you love neighbor, you love the Earth. If you love the Earth, you love your neighbor. Christina Slentz That’s right. Debra Rienstra Hi, it’s me, Debra. If you are enjoying this podcast episode, go ahead and subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. If you have a minute, leave a review. Good reviews help more listeners discover this podcast. To keep up with all the Refugia news, I invite you to subscribe to the Refugia newsletter on Substack. This is my fortnightly newsletter for people of faith who care about the climate crisis and want to go deeper. Every two weeks, I feature climate news, deeper dives, refugia sightings and much more. Join our community at refugianewsletter.substack.com (http://refugianewsletter.substack.com). For even more goodies, including transcripts and show notes for this podcast, check out my website at debrarienstra.com (http://debrarienstra.com). D-E-B-R-A-R-I-E-N-S-T-R-A dot com. Thanks so much for listening. We’re glad you’re part of this community. And now back to the interview. Debra Rienstra Let’s think about some of those more personal goals. I don’t know, maybe they’re not just personal, because everything is systemic too. But I want to talk about that sustainable lifestyle goal, adoption of sustainable lifestyle. So what does that mean, and how are people doing that in San Diego? Christina Slentz So I have a really amazing parish, St. Thomas More, and they have created a community garden that not only functions as a place for their parish to gather and work together, it also is open to the public, so it has an evangelical capacity as well. And they also collect recyclable cans and bottles and then take those to a facility where they can be paid for that recycling work, and then they take the money, and then they put it into this garden that allows them to gather and have a mission and have evangelical outreach. So I think of this as such a wonderful circular kind of example that is, you know, feeding them in many ways. You know, they have this sense of community. They have this sense of common, shared mission. They have a good relationship with the neighborhood around them, people that may be of different faiths or of no faith at all. And then they’re also in good relationship with Mother Earth, and doing what they can to, you know, practice this sort of sustainability, or also a little bit like circular economics, I guess I would say as well. And I think one of the things that the Catholic Church is emphasizing is synodality, and our synodality really calls us to be community, to have a shared mission and really inviting participatory action. So in my building here, where we sort of have the headquarters, you know, we also have gone to compostables for all of our events, and we try to minimize any kind of single use plastics. But, you know, there’s that dreaded moment at the end where everybody has to go to the three, you know, receptacles. Everyone panics, especially if I’m near them, and I feel terribly, you know, like, should I step away? Should I give them a moment to give them help? Is that overreach? And so, you know, but we all fumble through together, and that’s where I’ve kind of said, like, “Look, it’s not easy for me either. Like, God forbid I put the wrong thing in the wrong can, right?” So I think that there’s this way where we all are coming together to sort of take on this work. And, you know, we’re not going to be perfect, but, you know, I think that it does foster community when we take this on, and then also recognizing how, you know, now we are living with greater simplicity, and we are impacting the Earth, you know, to a lesser extent. Debra Rienstra Yeah, nothing bonds people like pulling weeds together, or standing over the recycle bins going, “Hmm.” It’s okay. We don’t have to indulge in recycling guilt, you know, just do your best. So I want to move on to ecological spirituality. I love that phrase. It’s not one you hear everywhere. And I wanted to remind listeners that San Diego Diocese is the most biodiverse diocese in the US. Maybe we wouldn’t have expected that, but you’ve kind of got everything there. So I want to talk about ecological spirituality in the context of that actual place. I love the sentiment you quoted from Laudato si’ in an article you wrote recently. It was an idea from Pope Francis that in the beauties and wonders of the Earth, we experience God’s friendship with us. And so I wanted to ask you how you’re helping people in your parishes reconnect to the Earth where you are, and thus, and this is how you put it, “revive something of our true selves.” Christina Slentz Yeah, one of my favorite pieces in Laudato si’: Pope Francis alludes to having a place in childhood where we felt a sense of awe and wonder. And I think that that awe and wonder allows us to get back to childhood in some ways, before there was a lot of noise before there was all the different distractions. And I think that that true self is also a little freer to connect to God. I think sometimes about little children and baby Jesus, you know, and that sort of immediate connection that’s not really complicated, you know, it’s just comfortable. Or feeling the love of God like being a child sitting on the lap of your mom or your dad. And so encouraging people, or providing opportunities for this return to that place of awe and wonder, I think is really important. I think that at the heart of our inability to care for creation is this estrangement from our Creator. So we won’t care for something if we don’t love it. And in this way, ecological spirituality may be step one in all of this, right? So I think we are really lucky, being here. As I mentioned, our climate is beautiful. It is a beautiful place. We have everything from the ocean to mountains to desert, and many people who live here do really connect with the geography and the beauty of where we are, and so inviting them to take a moment to just pause and think about those places. Think about their senses as they move through the memory of that space, I think is really important before we start any of the other conversations. And so I try to do that, and then we share about it. And I have yet to find somebody that says, “Oh, I just didn’t have a place.” Everybody has a place. And many people will say, “I really struggled, because I love this place, and I love that place,” you know. And so it is really great to hear. And I think people really come out of an exercise like that with this new sense of common ground as well. And I think that is so important, right? Because if you ask people like, “Raise your hand, who hates trees?” No one’s gonna do it, right? Don’t even think anyone does. Or “Raise your hand if you like to litter.” No one’s going to say, like, “Oh yeah, I really love throwing things out my window.” And so there is a lot more common ground. And I think that eco spirituality invites us to find out how much we have in common, and actually how much we all yearn for that place of connectedness. Debra Rienstra Oh, yeah. I’ve noticed, you know, people have so many different feelings that motivate what they might do in a faith and climate space, and there’s anger, there’s fear, a lot of anxiety. But the trick, I think, is to get to the center, which is love. And the quickest way to do that, maybe, is to find that early love, or a love that’s developed over many, even generations, in a particular place, if you’re lucky, and you’re rooted in some way. I feel like we also, as people of faith, haven’t made enough of a case that being closer to the creation is, in fact, a pathway to God. And I see that in a lot of the writings that you have too. It’s a way of understanding God better. It’s a way of allowing God to speak to us that we sometimes underestimate, I think. There’s other ways, of course, but it’s one that we tend to underestimate. It is a way to deeper spirituality. So getting people to be in touch with that, it sounds like you’ve you’ve worked on that a little bit. Christina Slentz We’re very lucky. The Franciscan tradition is pretty rich and present here. The Franciscan School of Theology is located here at the University of San Diego. Debra Rienstra There we go. Christina Slentz I have several secular Franciscans on my team, and a few Franciscan friars. And you know, that’s very much at the heart of St. Francis and St. Claire’s tradition. St. Bonaventure, who is a Franciscan, actually calls nature, or the environment, the created world, like another book. It’s another gospel that tells us something about God’s plan. Debra Rienstra Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to quote from Pope Leo’s message for the World Day of Prayer for the Care of Creation, which was September one. And I found his message so encouraging, and especially this particular paragraph, it’s along the line of seeds here. He writes, “In Christ, we too are seeds, and indeed seeds of peace and hope. The prophet Isaiah tells us that the Spirit of God can make an arid and parched desert into a garden, a place of rest and serenity. In his words, a spirit from on high will be poured out on us, and the wilderness will become a fruitful field, and the fruitful field a forest. Then justice will dwell in the wilderness and righteousness abide in the fruitful field. The work of righteousness will be peace, and the work of righteousness quietness and trust forever. My people will abide in a peaceful habitation, in secure dwellings and in quiet resting places.” So we have this beautiful vision and the sense of vocation of who we are and who our communities are as seeds of peace and hope. So it seems like you experience that in the San Diego Diocese. Are there some particular examples that have been really meaningful and important to you, where you see that “seeds of hope” metaphor being played out? Christina Slentz Yeah, I would point to two areas that I would offer up as good examples. One is a parish that is located in what’s called Barrio Logan. It is an ecologically marginalized community. The highways literally forced the school to be moved when they put the highway in right down the middle of the community. And that’s the I-5. So it runs all the way from Canada to Mexico. Big highway. In addition, the Coronado Bridge connects to the highway right there. The Navy base is there, and the Port of San Diego all intersects there. So their air quality is really degraded, and it’s a socio-economically poor area. It is also a predominantly Hispanic community there. But the Jesuit pastor there, Father Scott Santa Rosa, is a very good community organizer. He led the parish when they were confronted by another warehouse that was going to be added at the port. And the proposal by the company violated the Port Authority’s standards, but they were seeking a waiver, and Father Scott brought in the Environmental Health Coalition. He brought in a theologian from University of San Diego. He invited the youth to present on Laudato si’ to the adults and really empowered the community, which is that seventh goal of Laudato si’, it’s very connected to environmental justice. And then they learned, they grew, they came to an understanding that this was not acceptable, and that they wanted to be a voice for their community. They—we traveled. I was very fortunate to kind of engage with them in this process. And we traveled to the Port Authority building the night before the Port Authority was going to make their decision on this, whether or not to grant this waiver. And we said a rosary, which consists of five sets of 10 Hail Marys, roughly. And between each set, somebody spoke and gave their witness. And one of the women stood up and said, “I never thought I would speak publicly in my whole life. I can’t believe I’m here. I can’t believe I’m speaking, but I found my voice because of this issue.” And I thought, even if we lose, that’s such an amazing win that people felt connected to their environment. They understood that they have a voice. They understood their own dignity and the dignity of their community, and felt that it was worth standing up for. And the next day we went, there was demonstration and public witnessing and praying, and then they went in and spoke at the actual hearing. And the first thing that the chairman of the board said, in response to everyone’s comments was, “Well, I’m a Catholic, and we have three priests that were here today.” And you know, how many times does a public official make a statement of faith? You know, I thought, “Okay, win number two!” And you know, I’ll just go ahead and cut to the chase. And they turned down the company that wanted to put the warehouse in and said, “You know, we just don’t think that you’ve convinced the local community that the benefits of this would be worth it.” And it was amazing. And so that place, they continue to also tend to the care of migrants. They have begun the work of accompanying migrants that are going for their court appointed hearings for their asylum process. And you know, those are not outcomes that are generally favorable, but they are just going and being present with them and, you know, we are on the border. We understand how some of these environmental impacts do entangle with human mobility. And so, you know, there’s a lot that this community, that is really one of our poorest communities in San Diego, has brought to the wider San Diego Diocese as more parishes and local Catholics are now mimicking what they have done and joining in this mission, and so they’ve been an incredible source—this tiny little parish in a poor part of the Diocese with terrible environmental impacts, has actually been a place where things have blossomed and grown, and they actually do have an amazing garden as well. Debra Rienstra Wow, that’s an incredible story, and exactly a story of empowerment and resilience, as you suggested, and a story of how low-resource people are not necessarily low-resource people. They have other kinds of resources that may not be visible to the outside, but that can be very powerful, and especially when one of those is faith. It was such a great example of people motivated not only by their, you know, sort of survival, but their faith to do this work. Yeah, wonderful. Christina Slentz I think they understand the impact, right? So if you can shut your windows and turn on your air conditioning, maybe you don’t get it. Debra Rienstra Yeah, right. So what would you say are your biggest obstacles and your biggest joys in your work right now? Christina Slentz I think the biggest obstacle is coming up against Catholics and/or Christians, or really any person of faith. But I think this may be especially true to Catholics and Christians who think that our social actions have to be an “either/or” choice, and they resist a “yes/and” mentality, and so they put different issues in competition with each other, right? And, you know, sometimes they think about Cain and Abel, right? This sort of jealousy or comparison can be a real problem. Instead of saying, “Okay, maybe we don’t fit in a neat box, but as Catholics, you know, we have to do all the things.” And that kind of privileging one issue or another issue makes us vulnerable to those who would seek division and competition. And I think that when we look at God, you know, God loves all of it, right? God is love, and so there isn’t that discrimination in the example of our Creator, and I would, of course, we aren’t perfect, you know, but we should aspire to that same kind of comprehensive love. Debra Rienstra Yeah, and we do it together. We don’t all have to do every last one of the things. We do it together. What about joys? What are your greatest joys right now in your work? Christina Slentz I think that coming together is really a joy. When I first started this work, I felt like a unicorn. I could either be the only person of faith in an environmental group, or I could be the only environmentalist in a faith group. And so it just was a feeling of being awkward all the time. And I do think that just in the three years that I’ve been in this position, I am seeing momentum build. I think ecumenicalism is super helpful in this regard. And I think that increasingly people are finding each other, and they are starting to get a little bit of a wake up call. I think it is unfortunate that people in the United States have had to experience some significant catastrophes and human loss and impact before they start to awaken to the issue of climate change or environmental degradation. I think plastics are really a pretty significant issue as well, but I think that more and more, people seem to be coming around to it, and whenever we celebrate together, that gives me joy. Debra Rienstra Yeah, I agree. I’m seeing it happening too, and it keeps me going. It keeps me going to connect with people like you, and every door I open, there’s more people of faith doing amazing work, and we are building that mycelial network. And it’s pretty great. So what is your favorite gift of the Catholic Church, a gift of wisdom on creation care that you wish everyone would receive? Christina Slentz I am not sure I would say that this is my favorite. But maybe I think that it is very important, is that, you know, in the Catholic community, communion, Eucharist, is really, you know, the summit for Catholics, that each week, at a minimum, we are going to celebrate this liturgy. We break open the Word, and then we celebrate the Eucharist. And one of the things I, you know, find very compelling is the fact that Jesus celebrates at the Last Supper with bread and wine. Jesus didn’t get grapes and, you know, a piece of meat, to celebrate that these were both chosen items that were not just created by God, but they involved, as we say, in our celebration, the work of human hands. And so this really represents this call to co-creation, I think. And if that is something that you know, is really at the heart of Catholicism, this, you know, summit of our faith to celebrate the Eucharist—in that, we are called to co-create. And so this tells us something about how we are meant to exist in relationship with the Creator. You know, God reveals God’s self to us in the beauty of this creation or in the gift of the Eucharist, and then, in turn, we are called to respond to that love. Otherwise the revelation isn’t complete, so our response is to care for creation or to receive the Eucharist, and then go and serve as God has called us to serve. So maybe, maybe this is something that we can offer up. Debra Rienstra So beautifully said, and the intimacy of eating, you know, taking the material, the fruit of the earth and the work of human hands, into ourselves, responding by the Spirit, that intimacy, that physicality, there’s a reason that that is the central ritual. Christina Slentz And you know, if I could give you one last image connected to that—because then we become the tabernacle, right? And we think about Noah and the ark, right? And how, you know, creation is destroyed, but the ark holds this refugia right and until it’s time for this moment of reconciliation and forgiveness and then renewed flourishing. And you may or may not have heard this story, but when the LA fires raged in Pacific Palisades in January of 2025 the fires swept across the parish and school called Corpus Christi Parish, and it is the home parish of brother James Lockman, one of my dear, dear volunteers. And there was a firefighter who went back to look at the ruins that evening, and he was Catholic, and he came across the tabernacle from the church, and it was the only thing that survived. And when they opened it up, it was pristine on the inside and undamaged. And that Sunday, they took it to St. Monica’s Parish, which is one of the very animated creation care parishes in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, and they celebrated Mass there because Corpus Christi did not have a parish right to celebrate in that weekend. And I think about that tabernacle as being, you know—it’s to reflect that Ark of the Covenant, right, Ark of Noah, the Ark of the Covenant. And then we have the tabernacle now, and that space of refuge that was preserved, you know. And then, of course, when we take the Eucharist into ourselves, we become that tabernacle. We’re walking tabernacles, right? So we are also, then, places of refuge and where we know that God is with us and we can go and serve. Debra Rienstra Christina, it has been such a joy to talk to you. Thank you for your wisdom, for your inspiration, for the way that you deploy your expertise in such compassionate and far reaching ways. It’s just been a pleasure. Thank you. Christina Slentz Oh, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed talking today with you, Debra. Debra Rienstra Thanks for joining us. For show notes and full transcripts, please visit debrarienstra.com (http://debrarienstra.com) and click on the Refugia Podcast tab. This season of the Refugia Podcast is produced with generous funding from the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship. Colin Hoogerwerf is our awesome audio producer. Thanks to Ron Rienstra for content consultation as well as technical and travel support. Till next time, be well. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit refugianewsletter.substack.com (https://refugianewsletter.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

3. 

   26 Oct 2025

   Refugia Podcast Episode 38

   As a lay leader of Traverse City Presbyterian Church (https://tcpresby.org/), Linda Racine and a team of enthusiastic congregants prompted her church to start on a journey toward effective climate action. You can read about their commitment to creation care (https://tcpresby.org/creation-care/) and learn about their 3 bright ideas for reducing carbon emissions in this congregation-led video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOY-VCDEruA). Traverse City Presbyterian took advantage of tools like the Interfaith Power and Light Carbon Assessment (https://www.miipl.org/light_the_way) to understand their own energy use. Learn more about how Linda’s denomination, the PCUSA, has committed to climate solutions in their Earth Pledge (https://pcusa.org/about-pcusa/agencies-entities/interim-unified-agency/ministry-areas/hunger-program/sustainable-livingearth-care-concerns/earth-care-congregations). Linda is also part of the Michigan Citizens Climate Lobby (https://citizensclimatelobby.org/chapters/Michigan_-_At_Large/), which has local chapters all over the country. Many thanks to Linda and all the other terrific people who graciously hosted us when we visited Traverse City! Linda Racine TRANSCRIPT Linda Racine In 2022, there were multiple policies or overtures passed focused on creation care, and it really put out an alarm, saying “It’s serious, folks, the Earth is really in trouble. So we need to take strong action.” And they were encouraging all churches to reduce their carbon emissions by at least 25% in the next four years and get it down to net zero or net positive by 2030. Debra Rienstra Wow. That’s ambitious. Linda RacineVery ambitious. But a group of interested folks at church looked at that and said, “Let’s do it. Let’s go for it.” Debra Rienstra Welcome to the Refugia Podcast. I’m your host, Professor Debra Rienstra. Refugia are habitats in nature where life endures in times of crisis. We’re exploring the concept of refugia as a metaphor, discovering how people of faith can become people of refugia: nurturing life-giving spaces in the earth, in our human cultural systems, and in our spiritual communities, even in this time of severe disturbance. This season, we’re paying special attention to churches and Christian communities who have figured out how to address the climate crisis together as an essential aspect of their discipleship. Today, I’m talking with Linda Racine from the Presbyterian Church in Traverse City, Michigan. Linda happens to be Michigan co-coordinator for Citizen Climate Lobby, a role she adopted after a long career in academia. But I’m talking with Linda today in her role as a lay leader at the church. Traverse City Presbyterian, in many ways, is an ordinary congregation, but they are doing extraordinary work, integrating climate action into every aspect of church life. They have heat pumps, solar panels, native plantings, a pocket forest, educational programs and more. Their story demonstrates the importance of active pastoral and lay leadership, broad community buy-in, and denominational commitments. Linda will tell us their story. Let’s get started. Debra RienstraLinda, thank you for talking with me today. Linda Racine Oh, glad to be here. Debra Rienstra It’s great to be here in your beautiful home, here in Traverse City. Thank you for your hospitality today, and I’m really excited to talk about the work of Traverse City Presbyterian Church. So I know you’ve been involved in the church for a long time. Maybe tell us a little bit about your personal background and how long you’ve been involved in the church. Linda Racine Oh, I think I joined about 25 years ago. We used we had been members at the Immaculate Conception Catholic Church just down the street here, and it was actually our oldest son who was in high school at the time, going through confirmation class, and a lot of his friends were going to the Presbyterian Church, and he really wanted to go, and for a variety of reasons, we said, “Let’s check it out.” And we’ve been members since. That was 25 years ago. Debra Rienstra Yeah, so you have been around for all of the adventures that your church has had in their creation care work. Yes, so let’s start with that spark point. We’re really interested in finding how these things begin with a church. So can you think back to the moment when something happened at the church that people began to work in earnest to respond to climate change as a community. What was that spark point for Traverse City Presbyterian? Linda Racine The thing that really kicked it off was Laura Jacobson, who manages/schedules things for our Wednesday night adult education, came to me because she knew I was really involved in Citizens Climate Lobby, which is a non-partisan volunteer organization. And, “Would you do a session on climate?” I wanted to, but I was also a little hesitant, just because, sadly, climate has become so politicized, and our church has had a long history—we’re a purple church, check your politics at the door, and I was concerned about how people might receive it. So, I put together a presentation very thoughtfully about “How do I make this as non-political as possible?” But the heading for it was “Caring for God’s Creation: a faith based approach to climate change.” I wasn’t sure how it would go over. And at that time, we were getting maybe 20 people coming on Wednesday nights. 65 people came. The room was packed. So clearly there was a lot of interest. Debra Rienstra What year was this? Linda Racine It was like January of 2020, right before Covid hit. Debra Rienstra Goodness. Linda Racine So anyway, the evening went really well. Kind of started with a very broad based, here’s what Scripture says. Here’s what—oh, we did the Katharine Hayhoe video, which—she takes such a broad view of every faith tradition has something important to say about our responsibility to care for creation and for one another. So Katharine Hayhoe, then the Pope, and you know, went through some different traditions and how they’re responding. And then did some information about what PCUSA was doing, which was new to me. I didn’t really know what all our denomination—because it had never been talked about in our church. So went through that and offered the idea that our denomination has a certification process for creation care teams. And by the end, people were saying, “Let’s do this!” There was an impromptu—somebody grabbed a piece of paper and pen, and “Who wants to be a part of the team?” And we got, I don’t know, eight or 10 names on that list. Quickly got together and said, “Well, what do we want to do? Let’s pitch it to our session.” So February’s meeting, we had a proposal, and they all said, “Absolutely, let’s go for it.” So that’s what started it. Debra Rienstra What do you think prepared people to be that enthusiastic after one session? What was going on in the church? What are the congregation members like that makes you look back on that and say, “Yeah, we were somehow primed or prompted or ready for that moment.” Linda Racine I think that’s hard to say. Our church has always—I guess what drew me to the church initially is it was really clear this was a community that really walked the talk. It wasn’t coming on Sunday to check a box, but really genuinely living their faith. And people of faith were called to care for creation. And so I think that was a strong ethic that people had anyway. And clearly, by 2020, we’re seeing, “Oh my gosh, this earth is in trouble.” That was pretty clear. And so, just to have a topic on—let’s gather on Wednesday night and talk about it. I think people were ready. Debra Rienstra Fascinating, yeah. And I wonder if, because up north here in Michigan, this beautiful area of Michigan, people are very aware of the outdoors. So many people care a lot about the natural world around here and enjoy it. Summer up here is so beautiful. So I wonder if it was just a little bit of a more natural leap there. Linda Racine I think you’ve got a point there. People are drawn to this area because of its natural amazingness. And so there is a strong environmental ethic here. I mean, look at the land conservancy: all the explosion since that launched back in the 90s, I believe. The number of just natural areas that have been preserved, the whole Sleeping Bear sand dunes could have been development, but that has been preserved. There is a strong environmental ethic here. No question. Debra Rienstra Yeah, yeah. So what happened next? How did you go about inviting the whole congregation into a process that—you didn’t know what was going to happen next. You have this spark moment. But then what happened? Linda Racine I think the structure of the certification process really drove that. It’s so solid. When a church decides to do that, you’re committing to really look at how you manage your facilities, how your worship embraces this, how your education programs, and advocacy—that’s always been the toughest one. But those four areas. First you assess, where are we now? And then, what are your church’s goals? And so that involved, in order to do that and to get all the committees in the church involved: what are you doing currently, and what would you like to do? What would you like to see happen in the next year? So every committee was involved in setting goals. The pastor support was critical. Oh my gosh, without that, this wouldn’t have gone anywhere. Pastors have been, right from the beginning, very supportive. One Sunday, the whole church read the pledge. Debra Rienstra The Earth Care Pledge from the Presbyterian Church, okay. Linda Racine Yeah, yeah. So people were aware that that was going on. And then people have different interests. “I’m really excited about this piece of it or that piece of it.” So always open to anyone who wants to jump in and get involved to do that. But I think it’s the discipline, the structure and the discipline, of that certification process that keeps us on track. Debra Rienstra Okay, yeah, and it sounds like you were able to get that certification pretty quickly, because you’ve had it since 2020, so pretty quickly you got the certification. Linda Racine Yeah, I think that first year, we filled out all the forms and sent goals, and then you submit that and get the certification, they review it at the denominational level, Debra Rienstra Yeah. So it seems, from all the conversations I’ve had with church folks this weekend that the physical plant aspects became a big part of it, first, as well as the landscaping and grounds aspects. So talk a little bit about the processes of those things happening. Linda Racine Well, one of the first projects that first year was converting pieces of ground. We had a bed out front that was dying. Some of the bushes were dying. And a couple of our church members, Gary Richardson and Cheryl Gross, were aware of a National Wildlife Federation grant opportunity. And so Gary was a member of Building and Grounds and took the idea to that committee, and they were all supportive of it. So we submitted the grant. We got $1,500 to get us started. And so work crews showed up. We ripped out the old plants. Then that also connected to the education piece. That’s one of one of those other four areas. Our children’s education person was absolutely passionate. So the Vacation Bible School that summer focused on pollinators. So we did a whole education piece on the role of pollinators and their importance, and then the kids helped plant the new pollinator garden. Debra Rienstra Yeah, awesome. Linda Racine Yeah. It was fabulous. Debra Rienstra So it sounds like what we need is enthusiasm across the leadership. Yeah. And the leadership working together. Linda Racine Absolutely. Debra Rienstra And I think you folks at this church have so many—not only enthusiastic, but really skilled leaders. You have organization experience. You have Cheryl, who does native plants as a passion. I had a wonderful tour today with Randy, who was excited about boilers and transferring those to heat pumps, which was so delightful to hear about. And at some point, the church made this wonderful video, which we’ll link in the show notes, explaining the goals—the three bright ideas, goals. So talk about how that happened. Linda Racine That was triggered by our denomination’s policy, where, as a denomination, delegates meet every two years to look at policy for the church. And in 2022, there were multiple policies or overtures passed focused on creation care, and it really put out an alarm, saying, “It’s serious, folks. The earth is really in trouble, so we need to take strong action.” And they were encouraging all churches to reduce their carbon emissions by at least 25% in the next four years and get it down to net zero or net positive by 2030. Debra Rienstra Wow, that’s ambitious. Linda Racine Very ambitious. But a group of interested folks at church looked at that and said, “Let’s do it. Let’s go for it.” So you need to start—understand where you are first before you can reduce something. So we use the Interfaith Power and Light carbon assessment. And Chris Wendland, who you met, really drove that train, and she and Randy both worked with staff to gather all the—here’s our electric bills and our gas bills and all the stuff needed to submit that. And so then we got this feedback about, “Here’s where you are.” And then it was, “Okay, now what do we do?” And so another church member said, “Let’s talk with Tim Pulliam,” who was—he’s the owner, executive, I don’t know what his title, but he runs Keen Technical Solutions who, for I don’t know, 25 years have been really focused on clean energy transformation. Debra Rienstra This is also a member of the church? Linda Racine Tim Pulliam is not, but it was a church member who recommended him. So Tim brought a team of folks in and looked at all this stuff, and they said, “Well, the thing you could—that would make the biggest impact the quickest would be changing all your lighting to LED.” So that seemed like a no brainer. We also had this ancient boiler that was ready to die any minute, and people were starting to panic about that. And so, okay, we got to do something there. And then there were a lot of people in the church saying, “Can we put solar panels up?” Because there’s so many great things about the solar. Not only is it good for the clean energy, but it’s also a public statement. It really is a public witness, and it helps normalize, because there’s still so many people out there who think, “Oh, this is Northern Michigan. You can’t— solar is worthless here.” Well, actually, it’s not. Debra Rienstra Actually, it’s not, especially because we have such very long summer days. Linda Racine Yes, yeah. And so anyway, there was a lot of enthusiasm around that. So kind of gathered after Sunday, after church on Sunday, anybody who wanted to come and talked about, “Well, here’s what the report said, and what do we think?” And so there was interest in all three of those ideas. So we created task forces. People said, “Yeah, I’ll work on this.” And everybody, the groups, had about three months to do their homework, come back with, “Here’s what we think the options are and what it’s going to cost.” And that in about April of that year, we heard what people had to say, and people wanted to do all three. Debra Rienstra Yeah, that’s just amazing. Was there resistance at all? Were there people who were resistant? Linda Racine I’m not remembering that. Maybe they weren’t showing up at the meetings. Are they quiet? I don’t know. I don’t remember. I mean, there’s always questions about, “Well, will solar really work?” There were questions about, “Well, can we afford it?” And that was maybe the biggest concern. But people had done quite a bit of research on that, and between the very low interest loans that our denomination offers—that was huge, the potential for grants. And we did end up getting an $80,000 grant from our local utility. And then at that time there were IRA dollars available. That’s a question mark right now, but the combination of that, and then when you look at the energy savings, it’s like, “Okay, what we’re going to save in electric bills is probably going to be pretty darn close to covering our monthly loan payment.” So when people saw that, it was like, collective, “Okay, sure, this is doable.” Debra Rienstra So at that point was the video made at that point? Linda Racine Yes, because the next step was, “Okay. So we’ve got maybe 50 people in the room. We’ve got 600 people in the church. How do we get everybody involved?” So putting together a strategy for really getting everyone enthused about it. And so the idea for the video came up. And Ray Starkenberg and her dad are professional videographers. Debra Rienstra Once again, talent in the congregation. Linda Racine Oh my gosh. And so they took that project on. And you’ve seen the video, it’s just amazing. The storytelling is so well done. Debra Rienstra It’s playful, it’s persuasive, it’s full of facts. And I love the theme, you know, “the time is now” is the theme of the video, and the involvement of kids in the video saying their piece, saying, “This is about me and my future. Please help.” It’s just—and that combined with the playfulness, it’s just brilliant. Linda Racine It’s a good balance, isn’t it? Yeah. And a couple things about that. One member of the church, after seeing the video, said, “If this was just about buying a new boiler, I wouldn’t be that enthused. But this is about the future. There was so much enthusiasm in the church after really hearing the whole story and the possibilities there. I do want to mention, that theme, “the time is now,” that’s right out of the overture that was passed by our general assembly. Debra Rienstra Yeah. Once again, that denominational leadership is so important. Linda Racine Yeah, that was in that very first overture in 2022 talking about how serious this moment in time is and the time is now to act. Debra Rienstra Hi, it’s me, Debra. If you are enjoying this podcast episode, go ahead and subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. If you have a minute, leave a review. Good reviews help more listeners discover this podcast. To keep up with all the Refugia news, I invite you to subscribe to the Refugia newsletter on Substack. This is my fortnightly newsletter for people of faith who care about the climate crisis and want to go deeper. Every two weeks, I feature climate news, deeper dives, refugia sightings and much more. Join our community at refugianewsletter.substack.com (http://refugianewsletter.substack.com). For even more goodies, including transcripts and show notes for this podcast, check out my website at debrarienstra.com (http://debrarienstra.com). D-E-B-R-A-R-I-E-N-S-T-R-A dot com. Thanks so much for listening. We’re glad you’re part of this community. And now back to the interview. Debra RienstraSo how was the video used and disseminated? Linda Racine We started doing some meetings, just in homes, small groups, eight or 10 people. Showing the video, and then having a discussion. And that was the first step, and getting people’s questions answered, and then Sunday morning it was in the service. And, wow. Debra Rienstra So it worked, so to speak, yeah. Linda Racine And then it’s been on our website ever since. The thing is that video has gone—I wouldn’t say viral, but it has been broadly, broadly disseminated. Debra Rienstra Oh, I can see why. I think every church should imitate it as best they can. Yeah, I mean the statistics—the numbers are specific to you folks. Linda Racine Yeah, the storytelling though, the power of that, are things that other churches can use, yes. Debra Rienstra And it stars many people from your church. So the stars of the show are your fellow congregants. Linda Racine And they’re all people who have really stepped up and wanted to be and are a key part of this. Debra Rienstra So at this point you have—the heat pump system is well underway. Solar panels are sitting on the roof waiting for installation when the snow melts. You have education programs going. Maybe we’ll come back to that. Quite a lot of landscaping work, quite a lot of native planting done, really neat native gardens. You have a pocket forest going. So as far as the four things, the four elements of earth care congregation: it’s the building, the landscaping... Linda Racine Well, those are kind of together, so how you manage your facilities. Debra Rienstra Okay, what are the other three again? Linda Racine Worship. And pastors lead that, and they do that beautifully. That first year that we received certification, we had a kickoff celebration in the prayer garden that was just lovely. And so that theme gets worked into the worship by the pastors. Debra Rienstra Yeah, give some examples of how that happens in worship. Are there sermons? Is it in the litanies, in the music? Linda Racine Hmm, probably all of the above. Debra Rienstra Yeah. Okay, and you have two worship services. So this has to be done in two different ways, so it requires a little creativity. Linda Racine Yeah, although often in the spring, especially around earth— there can be combined services. We do a combined service once a month anyway, and so there have been a couple earth care themed services, that way it was one service. Debra Rienstra Yeah. And then do you have anything special for Earth Day or Season of Creation? Linda Racine Usually, yes, on like Wednesday, well, that would be more the education piece, but usually on the Wednesday nights, we’ve done something big related to earth care. This year, we’re telling our story. We’ve got a thing planned for that Wednesday of Earth Week. We’re inviting every church in the region to come and hear the story. Our contractor will be there to answer questions, and resource people, the Light and Power folks will be there. So if they have questions about, “Well, what programs do you have?” And there are other churches in the area also that are doing similar things. So it’ll be a good chance to share stories also and learn from one another. So we’re doing— that’s the plan for this during Earth Care Week. Debra Rienstra So just to make the refugia connection there, as Traverse City Presbyterian is operating as a refugia place, a refugia space, doing their work, modeling that work, with this idea of getting other churches together, you’re creating those corridors and creating that whole network to let these life giving capacities spread and grow. That’s brilliant. Really great idea. Linda Racine Another thing that we’ve done, we’ve got a racial justice task force that has, over the last several years, made a very focused effort to build relationship with the local tribe. And so the last, I think, three Lent seasons that we’ve had a Lenten series where inviting tribal leadership into talk about the—to educate us about the history of the tribe and practices and beliefs, and whereas much of that is focused on caring for the earth, caring for Mother Earth, it’s central, yeah. So we’ve learned a lot and helped make a connection with that. Debra Rienstra I noticed in your bulletin, there’s a land acknowledgement. And also I noticed you have a garden specifically co-cared for with the indigenous folk around. Linda Racine Not yet. Debra Rienstra Okay, that’s in the plans. Linda Racine Yes, it’s on the plans to—because in one of the sessions where a tribal leader was talking about...it was right after the land acknowledgement had been created. And the talking through that, someone at the end asked, “So, what’s next?” You know, we really, our heart is in this land acknowledgement, what’s next? And her response was, “When you care for the earth, you care for the Anishinaabek and what we believe in.” So that sparked this thing in my head of, “Oh my, here’s a beautiful opportunity.” And we followed up, thinking, if we could learn from tribal leadership on how to create a healing garden, we’d love to do that. And so we have had one of the tribal leaders come and help educate us about a healing garden, what all it involves. And we’ve created a space. It’s all smothered and ready to go. And the first thing that we would like to plant there is a plum tree. Because what we learned from her, I had no idea, but apparently, the plum tree is a has a very special place in the Anishinaabek story, where—my understanding is that plum trees were very prevalent in the Grand Rapids area, and when the Dutch came and settled that area, the plum trees were taken out. And so, in fact, it was hard when she came to meet with us, she had brought a plum tree as a gift, and we didn’t have a place to put it. Broke my heart. But we so would love that to be the center of this healing garden. So we’ve got, you know, ground is all ready. We weren’t even sure where it ought to go. And so anyway, so we’ve got a spot, because she helped us find a place for the healing garden. So as soon as we can reconnect, and they have the time, though, we’re going to get that garden launched. Debra Rienstra Wow, that’s beautiful. And will it be medicinal plants? Linda Racine That’s the thought, yes. Debra Rienstra So healing plants, but also healing a relationship. Linda Racine Both, yes, all three, yeah, all three things. Debra Rienstra Beautiful. So a lot of churches struggle with—I’ve been sort of calling it the “boutique issue” problem, which is to say, you have, you know, your creation care folk, and they have a green team or something, and they kind of do their little thing off to the side, and other people have other issues that they’re dealing with, and it’s really hard to get that creation care work to infuse through, to diffuse through the whole congregation’s life. And it sounds like that happened fairly organically. So what advice would you have for other churches that struggle with that boutique issue problem? Linda Racine Well, I think the strength of the PCUSA certification process is what allowed that to happen or fostered that. Because when you’ve got—you’re required or expected to set goals in very comprehensive list of how the church functions, it really requires everybody to be involved. And so right from the beginning, pretty much every committee was asked to look at, what are we doing related to creation care, and what do we want to do? And every year that gets repeated. So there’s a clear—we’ve got a pace of it. It’s built into the planning structure. Every fall, the committees are looking at their goals around everything but creation care is on the list, and they’re looking at their budgets to submit for the final reports and what happens next year. So it’s really built into the fabric and structure of how we operate. So if it weren’t for that, it would be a committee off to the side doing whatever it does. But really, everyone in all committees are involved. Debra Rienstra So it sounds like that answers my next question too, which has to do with the problem of “fade.” So by that, I mean everybody gets excited. You replace the boiler, you replace the LED lights, or replace lights with LED, and then...yeah, this enthusiasm sort of fades. But it sounds like that annual goal-setting process with an indefinite horizon, like there’s no end point to that, right? So that annual goal-setting process also helps with that fade problem. Linda Racine I think it’s key. Debra Rienstra One last question, what has been most challenging and most joyful about the transformation that Traverse City Presbyterian has gone through in a mere five years? Linda Racine I don’t know that anything has been particularly hard, but oh my gosh, the joy. Ah. Just so many examples. When we decided that there was this huge section of lawn that was totally unusable as lawn, let’s turn it into a pocket forest. And we were able to get a local tree trimmer to donate the wood chips to smother it. And we have this huge group of people with two truckloads or three, I don’t know how many truckloads of stuff. We’re out with the wheelbarrows spreading stuff. We’re having so much fun. Jordan is sliding down it like it’s a ski slope. We’re just having a great time, and I’m looking around and thinking, “I absolutely love this community.” They’re so committed to being the best stewards of creation and one another. Yeah, it’s not hard, it’s just wonderful. Debra Rienstra Linda, it’s been such a pleasure to talk to you. There’s been joy in this conversation, too. Thank you for your time. Thank you for all that you do and blessings on Traverse City Presbyterian. Debra Rienstra Thanks for joining us for show notes and full transcripts, please visit debrarienstra.com (http://debrarienstra.com) and click on the Refugia Podcast tab. This season of the Refugia Podcast is produced with generous funding from the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship. Colin Hoogerwerf is our awesome audio producer. Thanks to Ron Rienstra for content consultation as well as technical and travel support. Till next time, be well. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit refugianewsletter.substack.com (https://refugianewsletter.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1)

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