

Securing the Sanctuary-Christian Warrior Training
Keith Graves
5.0from 23 ratings
- 72
- Episodes
- 23
- Ratings
- Daily
- Cadence
- 2024
- First episode
About Securing the Sanctuary-Christian Warrior Training
Join Christian Warrior Training for practical insights and training resources on church security. Our articles and videos empower church security teams to better protect their congregations and communities. www.christianwarriortraining.com (https://www.christianwarriortraining.com?utm_medium=podcast)
- Publisher
- Keith Graves
- Category
- education · religion & spirituality
- Language
- en
- Explicit
- No
- First episode
- 22 Apr 2024
- Latest episode
- 6 Oct 2026
Latest episodes
72 episodes in the feed.

6 Oct 2026
One Year After Grand Blanc, Is Your Church Ready?
Paid subscribers make this possible. Please consider upgrading your subscription to help us protect all churches. One Year After Grand Blanc, Is Your Church Ready? On September 28, 2025, four people went to church in Grand Blanc Township, Michigan, and never came home. Their names were Craig Hayden, John Bond, Thelma Armstrong, and William “Pat” Howard. A man drove a truck into their meetinghouse, opened fire, and deliberately set the building ablaze. An armed member confronted him before police arrived. The police chief credited that member with buying time for others to escape. Yet one year later, the LDS Church continues to prohibit ordinary members from carrying firearms on church property. That deserves direct criticism. Leadership has revised its security guidance, but the weapons restriction remains. Families attending an ordinary Sunday service are still denied an option that leadership recognizes as appropriate for meetings involving an increased threat. I believe that response is inadequate. When four people have been murdered in your building, every part of your protection model should be examined, including policies leadership would prefer to leave alone. Whether your church is Baptist, Catholic, or nondenominational, you need to study this incident. You may have different policies, but you have the same responsibility to take the protection of your congregation seriously. A fast police response still left people dead Thomas Jacob Sanford attacked the Grand Blanc congregation with a vehicle, gunfire, and fire. The FBI later described the attack as targeted violence believed to be motivated by hatred toward the Mormon religious community (https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/10/31/fbi-confirms-grand-blanc-shooter-motive/?utm_source=chatgpt.com). This was a deliberate attack on people gathered for worship. The police response was fast. According to the timeline released by authorities (https://abc13.com/17937009/?utm_source=chatgpt.com), the first 911 call came from someone who had been shot in the stomach. Police were notified 16 seconds later. A conservation officer arrived in less than two minutes after dispatch, followed by a township officer. They confronted and killed Sanford. I spent 29 years in law enforcement. I understand what responding officers can accomplish, and I understand the limits imposed by travel time. Officers cannot protect someone inside your sanctuary while they are still driving toward your church. Call police immediately when an emergency develops. But your church also needs people prepared to act before officers arrive. Grand Blanc demonstrated how much damage an attacker can inflict during even a fast response. * Register for the October 8 class in Wayne, Michigan (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/christian-warrior-training-securing-sacred-spaces-10826-tickets-2000199027134?aff=oddtdtcreator) * Register for the October 10 class in Crystal Lake, Illinois (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/christian-warrior-training-securing-sacred-spaces-101026-tickets-1997768538477?aff=oddtdtcreator) An armed member bought time Greg Mikat, a hearings investigator with the Michigan Department of Corrections, was carrying a handgun that morning. After the truck struck the building, he went outside and encountered Sanford approaching with a rifle. Mikat fired five rounds. According to the police investigation, none struck Sanford. Sanford shot Mikat three times in the chest. Mikat survived. On the anniversary Sunday, he stood before his congregation and conducted the music. Grand Blanc Township Police Chief William “Bill” Renye described him as a hero and credited him with buying time for most of the congregation to escape through the back. The Deseret News anniversary report (https://www.deseret.com/faith/2026/09/28/grand-blanc-shooting-anniversary-haunts-survivors-faith/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) documents his actions and the chief’s assessment. Some people will focus on the misses and conclude that his handgun accomplished nothing. That ignores what the police chief said. Mikat confronted a man who was murdering people, and the chief believes that confrontation gave others time to get away. His courage deserves recognition. His misses also require an honest discussion about training. We can respect what he did while examining what every armed church security volunteer should learn from it. A carry permit does not establish your ability to stop an attacker. Neither does owning a good handgun or being the person everyone at church considers knowledgeable about firearms. You need to measure your performance. If you carry, train honestly I have recommended the Bill Drill for years because it gives you a measurable way to work on your draw, recoil control, and accuracy at speed. From the holster, draw and fire six rounds into the A zone, the center scoring area of a standard practical shooting target, at seven yards. The performance goal I recommend working toward is under two seconds, with all six rounds in that scoring area. All six hits count. A fast time with misses does not meet the standard. Build toward that goal at a pace you can safely control, and record both your times and your hits. The drill does not recreate Grand Blanc or establish that someone is prepared for every emergency. You still need judgment, communication, medical training, and practice with the people who will respond beside you. But if you carry a handgun to protect a congregation, avoiding meaningful evaluation of your shooting ability is unacceptable. People are depending on you. They deserve demonstrated competence and continued training. Be honest about what you can do today. Then put in the work to improve it. The policy needs to be challenged After Grand Blanc, the church security department sent a letter to leaders of more than 31,000 congregations (https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/10/10/church-of-jesus-christ-security-guidelines/?utm_source=chatgpt.com), asking them to review security and emergency preparations. The church’s security guidelines updated March 16, 2026 (https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/s3/1g/s31git49hje5jlcuyihpsitdagqanfmmjoxxr3np/security_guidelines_for_church_meetings_and_events.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com) include two greeters at entrances, paired patrols inside and outside, and emergency training that includes Run, Hide, Fight. Those measures have value. The same guidance calls for four to six current law enforcement officers at high profile meetings or during an increased threat environment. Meanwhile, General Handbook section 35.5.7.2 (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/35?lang=eng&utm_source=chatgpt.com) continues to prohibit firearms and other lethal weapons on church property, including concealed weapons, with an exception for current law enforcement officers. Leadership recognizes a role for armed protection. It recommends officers under certain circumstances while prohibiting ordinary members from carrying. Grand Blanc was a Sunday worship meeting. The attacker did not wait for a prominent visitor or a special event. He attacked families gathered for worship. Leadership should explain why those families cannot have trained, organized armed protection provided by qualified members where applicable law allows it. An ordinary Sunday deserves a serious protection plan. Hiring police can be part of that plan, but officers are not always available. Leadership still needs an answer for a service when none are present. Who is prepared to protect the congregation during the minutes before responding officers arrive? My recommendation is to change the policy to permit lawful armed protection by qualified members and establish trained, supported teams at the local level. Set standards, appoint accountable leaders, and provide the resources those teams need. After Grand Blanc, a letter and revised procedures should not end the discussion. The weapons restriction deserves direct examination. More fatal shootings followed On January 7, 2026, a shooting outside a funeral at an LDS meetinghouse in Salt Lake City killed two people and injured six others. Police described a dispute among people attending the funeral. Federal prosecutors later charged two alleged Tongan Crip gang members with firearms offenses related to the investigation. The initial reporting (https://apnews.com/article/dcc63668aebf300be751e8f9e9cf9b7c?utm_source=chatgpt.com) and Justice Department announcement (https://www.justice.gov/usao-ut/pr/two-alleged-tongan-crip-gang-members-face-firearm-charges-following-salt-lake-city?utm_source=chatgpt.com) describe those circumstances. On August 17, a funeral at an LDS meetinghouse in Kearns, Utah, ended with one man dead and two others critically injured. Attendees had warned police that trouble might develop. According to KSL’s reporting (https://www.ksl.com/article/51610819/police-activity-triggers-secure-protocol-for-3-kearns-schools?utm_source=chatgpt.com), officers were already at the location when they heard gunfire. Those two shootings and Grand Blanc left seven people dead in less than 11 months. The circumstances differed. The funeral shootings should not be presented as the same kind of targeted religious attack as Grand Blanc, but they demonstrate other threats that can reach church property. Your team needs to prepare for conflicts brought into funerals, threats against the congregation, and an attacker arriving during worship. Known disputes or gang connections belong in the security assessment before the service begins. Informal arrangements leave unanswered questions I have heard from LDS members who tell me they carry despite the policy. Others say they have formed informal teams. That tells me members are concerned enough to act without institutional support, and it raises questions leadership should resolve. Who knows who is armed? Who has been trained? Who is coordinating the response? Have those people ever trained together? A church should answer those questions through an organized program. Leaving members to private arrangements creates uncertainty during the emergency when clear responsibilities are essential. Give the team defined leadership and train together at least monthly. Brief other lawful carriers on expectations so they understand how to avoid interfering with the team or confusing responding officers. The church’s guidance includes fighting as a last resort. Leadership should examine what its weapons restriction leaves a member facing someone with a rifle. A folding chair may be what is available, but telling someone to improvise does not settle the question of whether qualified armed protection should have been permitted. Preparation starts outside Grand Blanc began with a vehicle reaching an occupied building. Every church should examine where a vehicle could drive directly into its sanctuary, classrooms, or gathering areas. Bring those vulnerabilities to leadership and discuss appropriate barriers with qualified professionals. I teach threat recognition through atmospherics. Know what normal looks like on your property so you can identify behavior that needs attention. Reckless driving, repeated circling, unusual parking, or an approach that does not fit normal activity should prompt observation and communication. Those behaviors do not automatically establish that someone is an attacker, but your team cannot assess what nobody is watching. Put a team member outside during services with a radio and a defined responsibility. Make sure that person can communicate a concern to someone with the authority to act. A vehicle striking a building may be an accident. It may also be the beginning of an attack. Your team needs to assess the situation, move people away from the impact area, and watch for additional danger. Your congregation needs a plan too Eyewitness reporting from Grand Blanc (https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/09/29/an-eyewitness-account-from-michigan-latter-day-saints-under-gunfire-fought-to-save-each-other/?utm_source=chatgpt.com) describes members helping people evacuate after the crash and facing gunfire as they escaped. The attacker also used gasoline to set the building ablaze. Your congregation should understand emergency procedures before something happens. Decide who can order an evacuation from the pulpit. Teach classroom leaders their exits and alternatives. Establish a rally point and a system for accounting for children. Work with your fire department on fire and smoke emergencies. A room used to shelter from gunfire can become dangerous when smoke enters or fire cuts off the exit. Your plan has to account for changing conditions. A security team cannot personally guide every family and every classroom at once. Members need enough preparation to make informed decisions when they are separated from the team. Review what your church publishes online as well. Post assignments, patrol schedules, camera locations, and detailed response procedures can expose information useful to someone planning violence. Teach members how to report concerns and respond to emergencies while keeping sensitive deployment details controlled. Faith does not excuse inaction In 2 Chronicles 32, Hezekiah learned that an enemy was approaching. He consulted his leaders, repaired defenses, prepared weapons and shields, and appointed commanders. He also encouraged the people to trust the Lord. Trusting God did not relieve him of the responsibility to repair a broken wall. He took practical steps to prepare the people under his care. Jeremiah 6:14 rebukes leaders who offered assurances of peace while treating a serious wound lightly. Jeremiah was addressing Judah in a particular historical setting, but that warning should cause us to examine our own leadership. Are we addressing demonstrated vulnerabilities? Are we taking responsibility for correcting them, or reassuring people while the same weaknesses remain? Four people were murdered at Grand Blanc. An armed member confronted the attacker, members helped one another escape, and responding officers stopped the killer. One year later, the weapons restriction remains. I believe leadership should reconsider it and establish trained, supported protection at the congregation level. The families attending an ordinary Sunday service deserve a plan that takes the demonstrated threats seriously. If you lead a church, bring this discussion to your leadership. If you lead a security team, examine your preparation. If you carry, be honest about your ability to deliver accurate hits and your willingness to train. Tell me in the comments whether your church has an organized team and whether leadership supports it. Keep operational details private, but share how your church is addressing these responsibilities. Pray for the families of Craig Hayden, John Bond, Thelma Armstrong, and William Howard. Pray for Greg Mikat and everyone still recovering from that morning. Pray also that people harboring hatred will turn to Christ before they hurt anyone. Remember the instruction in 1 Corinthians 16:13, ESV: “Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.” And remember your ABCs. Always Be Carrying. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.christianwarriortraining.com/subscribe (https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2)

1 Oct 2026
Free Church Safety Classes and a New Instructor Certification
Paid subscribers make this possible. Please consider upgrading your subscription to help us protect all churches. Seats Open for Our Free Michigan and Illinois Classes, and Applications Open for Active Shooter Instructor We still have seats in both of our free in-person church safety classes next month. The first is Thursday, October 8, from 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time at CrossPointe Community Church, 36125 Glenwood Road, Wayne, Michigan. The second is Saturday, October 10, from 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Central Time at Immanuel Lutheran Church, 300 Pathway Court, Crystal Lake, Illinois. Both classes run the same material: recognizing warning signs before a situation escalates, de-escalation, building a team, access control, legal considerations, emergency action plans, working with local police, and keeping a church welcoming while it stays secure. Pastors, church leaders, safety team members, ushers, greeters and volunteers are all welcome, and so are the police officers who work with your church. There is no livestream or online option. Registration is through Eventbrite. Enter the promo code CWT at checkout and the class is free. * Register for the October 8 class in Wayne, Michigan (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/christian-warrior-training-securing-sacred-spaces-10826-tickets-2000199027134?aff=oddtdtcreator) * Register for the October 10 class in Crystal Lake, Illinois (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/christian-warrior-training-securing-sacred-spaces-101026-tickets-1997768538477?aff=oddtdtcreator) The Church Active Shooter Instructor Course (CASIC) CASIC is a three-day train-the-trainer certification course for church security team members. This is the first time we are running it. You spend three days learning to plan, teach and run active shooter response training, and you go home qualified to train your own team. Students write operations orders and lesson plans during the course, and the scenario days use blank-firing weapons. Dates: Wednesday, October 28, through Friday, October 30, 2026 Hours: 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Mountain Time each day Location: Eagle, Idaho Tuition: $249 for all three days. The normal price of this course is $1,000. We set it at $249 because the mission of Christian Warrior Training is to keep training free or close to free for church security teams. Class size: 15 students This first class is aimed at churches in our region. Applicants from Idaho, eastern Oregon and eastern Washington get priority for the open seats. If seats remain after that, we will open them to applicants from anywhere. We plan to run CASIC in other parts of the country in 2027, so if you are farther away and do not get a seat this time, there will be more chances next year. NO REGISTRATIONS AT THE DOOR. DO NOT COME UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED TO ATTEND. CASIC prerequisites CASIC is an instructor course for people who already know active shooter response, basic church security and safe firearms handling. Over three days it teaches you how to train your own team in that material. Every student has to meet the requirements below. A student who cannot document them is not admitted. We also recommend, but do not require, the following. They are not disqualifying if you do not have them. * Experience as an instructor in any setting: military, law enforcement, coaching or anything else * A Stop the Bleed, Tactical Combat Casualty Care (TCCC) or equivalent trauma care course * Defensive handgun training beyond a basic safety class * Knowing your state’s use-of-force law as it applies to armed church security What to send with your application Email the following to casic@christianwarriortraining.com (mailto:casic@christianwarriortraining.com): * Your church letter. Anyone in your chain of command can sign it, including your pastor, an elder, your safety director or your team leader. It needs to state that your church supports you attending CASIC, that you hold an active role on the security team or have authority to start one, and that you have passed a background check through your church. * Your training certificate from a church security or active shooter response course. * A copy of your concealed carry permit, or your law enforcement or military credential. * Your answer to this question, at least two paragraphs long: Describe your current active shooter training background, your role on your church security team, and what you intend to do with this certification at your church. Include your full name, your church, and your city and state in the email. The signed statement on felony and domestic violence convictions and the enrollment application are completed before the first day of class. If your training background falls short, we will tell you which course to take first so you can apply for a later CASIC class.What to bring * A laptop. You will write operations orders and lesson plans during the course. * A full-face mask for the blank-firing scenarios. * Your church load-out, including your radio, if you want to train in the gear you wear on Sunday. * A blue gun or a laser trainer such as a TitanX or SIRT pistol, if you have one. Do not bring firearms, ammunition, knives, pepper spray or any other weapon. None are allowed on site at any point during the course. The blue gun or laser trainer takes the place of your carry gun for every drill. If your church sits in Idaho, eastern Oregon or eastern Washington, get your letter written this week and send it to casic@christianwarriortraining.com (mailto:casic@christianwarriortraining.com). This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.christianwarriortraining.com/subscribe (https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2)

30 Sept 2026
The 10 Priorities Every Church Security Team Should Know
Paid subscribers make this possible. Please consider upgrading your subscription to help us protect all churches. 10 Ways to Protect Your Church, in the Right Order If I walked into your church this Sunday, I might find three men carrying concealed firearms. If I walked around the building, I might also find a back door propped open, a children’s wing anybody can enter, and an alarm nobody has tested. Those men may be committed, trained, and willing to protect the congregation. But they cannot cover every unsecured entrance, screen every volunteer, or replace a medical response plan. There are other things your church needs to get working, and the order deserves some attention. Here are ten things you can do to protect your church. This is a way to set priorities, not a complete security plan for every building. Take it to your pastor and safety team, look honestly at what you have, and start with the first item that is unfinished. Paid subscribers help us keep church safety training available to churches that cannot afford it. If Christian Warrior Training has helped your team and you are in a position to support the work, please consider a paid subscription. 1. A Working Burglar and Fire Alarm Your building probably sits empty more hours than it is occupied. You need a monitored alarm that covers intrusion and fire, and somebody needs to know that it actually works. Test it regularly and keep the contact list current. Think about who gets called at two in the morning. I do not want the pastor walking into a building to find out whether a burglar is still inside. Have an appropriate response procedure, and put people on the list who will actually answer the phone. An alarm nobody acts on gives you very little protection. 2. A Useful Video System I want footage somebody can use after an incident. A well placed camera with a clear view of an entrance is more useful than a pile of cameras that show a blurry figure walking away. Resolution, placement, lighting, and distance all affect whether you can identify a person. Cover your entrances, children’s areas, offices, sanctuary, and parking lot. Aim for at least 30 days of storage if your system and budget allow it. Then have somebody on your team find a recording and export it. You do not want to discover after an incident that nobody knows how to retrieve the video. 3. Volunteer Screening and Written Safety Policies Some of the people who can harm a church are people the congregation already knows. That is why child protection and financial safeguards belong near the top of this list. Use appropriate background checks for each position, repeat them on a schedule, and use references, supervision, and a waiting period before a new attender serves with children. A background check will not catch everything. Put your rules in writing. Who can work with a child? Can someone be alone with a child? Who counts the money? Who receives a report when somebody raises a concern? If your staff and volunteers give different answers, you have work to do. We have free policy examples available at Christian Warrior Training (https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/) to help you get started. 4. Control Your Doors Walk your building during a Sunday service and count the doors that are propped open, unlocked, or out of sight. Know which entrances people are supposed to use, and assign somebody to pay attention to them. That side door by the fellowship hall should not let somebody walk through the building unnoticed. Keep track of keys and access codes, and update access when somebody leaves a position. Every required exit still needs to work immediately from the inside. Have your fire marshal or the appropriate local authority review proposed door changes so controlling entry does not interfere with people getting out. 5. Exterior Lighting Go to your property after dark. Look at the parking lot, entrances, walkways, and corners around the building. Can someone leaving Wednesday night Bible study see where they are going? Can your cameras record a face, or do you get a black screen with two headlights in it? Good lighting helps people move safely and helps your team see what is happening. You can spot many of the first problems by taking a walk at night. Write them down and give somebody responsibility for getting them corrected. 6. Children’s Check In and Check Out Have a clear process for who drops a child off and who is authorized to pick that child up. Use matching tags or another reliable system. Decide ahead of time what happens when a tag is lost, adults dispute a pickup, or a custody restriction applies. Do not create an exception because the adult is well known and everybody feels uncomfortable saying no. Control access to the children’s area and assign someone to watch it while keeping emergency exits usable. Practice those awkward conversations before you have a parent standing at the door. The free scenario resources under the Training tab at Christian Warrior Training (https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/) can help your team prepare. 7. A Trained Unarmed Safety Team Most church safety work happens long before anybody reaches for a weapon. Somebody greets people, watches the parking lot, and notices the person entering the children’s hallway who does not belong there. Somebody needs to speak calmly with a person in crisis and recognize when help is needed. Train your people to observe behavior, communicate, deescalate, and get the right help. Give each person a clear assignment. A safety team shirt does not tell a volunteer what to do, and good intentions do not replace training. 8. Medical Response People fall, have trouble breathing, and suffer medical emergencies during services. Your team needs to be ready to help. Put an AED where someone can get to it quickly, train people in CPR and AED use, and make trauma supplies accessible to trained responders. Send your team to Stop the Bleed training. Assign the jobs before the call happens. Who calls 911? Who brings the equipment? Who meets the ambulance and guides responders to the patient? Practice those assignments so your team can get moving when someone needs help. 9. Team Communications If a team member sees a problem in the parking lot, how does the person in the children’s wing find out? If the answer is that somebody will try to make a phone call, you need to test whether that is a dependable plan. Give your team radios or another reliable way to communicate throughout the property. Test communications in the rooms and hallways where signals tend to fail. Use plain language and practice the calls your team may actually make: a missing child, a medical emergency, a concerning person, or an entrance that needs attention. Having radios and knowing how to use them are two separate things. 10. Armed Team Members I believe armed response can be an important part of church safety. I have made that clear over the years. It is number ten because a firearm cannot secure an open door, screen a children’s volunteer, perform CPR, or tell the rest of the team what is happening. If your church authorizes armed team members, take that responsibility seriously. Establish written standards for selection, qualification, and ongoing training. Address use of force, communications, identification, insurance, and legal review. Make sure your pastor understands the program he is approving. A concealed carry permit by itself does not prepare someone for every responsibility of serving on a church safety team. Preparation and Humility Second Chronicles 26 describes Uzziah fortifying Jerusalem, building towers, securing water, and organizing his men. It also describes the weapons and equipment he provided. There is a lesson there about preparing several parts of a defense and getting people organized. But keep reading. Verse 16 tells us that when Uzziah became strong, he grew proud, and that pride led to his downfall. He stepped into a role God had not given him. That warning applies to me and to every person serving on a church safety team. If we begin enjoying the authority or the gear more than we care about the congregation, we need to examine ourselves. We serve the church under its leadership. The people God has placed in front of us are the reason we do this work. What to Do at Your Next Meeting Bring these ten items to your next safety team meeting. Mark which ones are actually working, then identify the first unfinished item. Maybe it is the alarm. Maybe it is the children’s checkout procedure. Maybe everybody has a radio, but nobody has tested it in the back hallway. Make that your next project and keep moving down the list. Tell me in the comments which number your church needs to work on and what is making it difficult. Your answers help me develop training that is useful to your team. Keep praying for the people who might threaten our churches. Pray that they turn away from violence and come to know Jesus Christ. Keep caring for the congregation, and remember your ABCs: Always Be Carrying. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.christianwarriortraining.com/subscribe (https://www.christianwarriortraining.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2)
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
- Apple Podcasts (US)
- 5.0 / 5
- 17 ratings
- Spotify
- 5.0 / 5
- 6 ratings
Contact Securing the Sanctuary-Christian Warrior Training
- Guest appearances
- Books guests
Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.
Host of Securing the Sanctuary-Christian Warrior Training?
Claim your podcast to manage its listing and keep your show details accurate.
Pod Engine is an independent podcast discovery and analytics service and is not affiliated with or endorsed by this podcast. Artwork and show content belong to their owners. Full legal notice.
Explore this show
Podcast research with Pod Engine





