Shack and Mu | On the Move

About Shack and Mu | On the Move

You don't need a degree to understand your power bill, your water, or your air. You've just been told you do. The Shack and Mu Show, hosted by Dr. Sacoby Wilson and Dr. Mustafa Ali, is a community-driven podcast about power, justice, and survival. After decades on the frontlines of environmental justice, working inside these communities instead of studying them from a distance, Shack and Mu break down government, energy, food, housing, and health into language anyone can follow.

Publisher

Dr. Sacoby Wilson | Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali

Category

science

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

6 Jul 2026

Latest episode

22 Sept 2026

Latest episodes

12 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   22 Sept 2026

   Episode 12: Retire the Word 'Resilience'

   "The hurricane happened in between pay periods." Episode 12 of Shack & Mu comes from the 11th annual HBCU Climate Change Conference in New Orleans with two guests who have decades in this work, Vernice Miller-Travis and Susana Almanza. They discuss in-depth what environmental injustice and climate do to families. Vernice starts with a detail about Katrina that rarely makes the retellings. August 29 fell between pay periods. People had been paid the week before and would not be paid again for a week, so when the order came to leave, plenty of households had nothing to leave with. Not everyone had a car, and the Lower Ninth is not a walk from downtown, the only part of the city that stayed dry. From there she makes the case for retiring the word resilience. Communities get knocked down, get back up, and get complimented on how well they take it, which leaves the knocking down unexamined. The recovery money bears her out. The Fifth Ward in Houston is still waiting years after Harvey while white neighborhoods got their FEMA money, eastern North Carolina got nothing a year on, Altadena's historic Black community is gone. What counts as resilience to her now is what people build for themselves. She also explains why the Lower Ninth flooded the way it did. The Army Corps channelized the Mississippi so tankers could reach the Gulf faster, and the wetlands that absorb storm surge went with it. Sankofa's wetland park is putting some back. Susana Almanza grew up in East Austin in a family of ten. Tenth Street was the line between the Latino and Black neighborhoods, Austin's master plan put every community of color east of the highway, and school meant getting your mouth washed out with soap for speaking Spanish. PODER's fight now runs through land use. Development at 80 percent impervious cover, heat islands at 105 degrees, kids with asthma, landscapers with no guaranteed water break. Houses bought for two to eighteen thousand dollars are assessed at half a million now, and the property tax does the evicting. After PODER pushed six fuel storage operations out of East Austin, the towers went up on that land. The People's Plan of 2018 laid out a community land trust and cumulative impact rules. The ordinances are already written. CHAPTERS 0:00 Family and the climate crisis 1:14 Vernice Miller-Travis joins 2:20 Katrina hit between pay periods 4:49 Retire the word resilience 6:45 FEMA money, Fifth Ward, Altadena 9:13 Sankofa and the 40 acre wetland park 10:47 Booker T. Washington and Sankofa 11:50 Stax, Al Green, and Isaac Hayes 14:22 Susana Almanza of PODER joins 17:26 Impervious cover and 105 degree heat 19:46 The People's Plan and a land trust 20:50 Economic racism and the property tax 22:00 The tank farm left, the towers arrived 23:29 Mercy Mercy Me and Gracias a la Vida 24:45 Closing KEY TAKEAWAYS Evacuation is a money question. Katrina made landfall between paychecks. Resilience praises people for surviving what should not keep happening. Recovery money does not reach everyone. Harvey, eastern North Carolina, and Altadena show it. Displacement runs through land use and property tax, not only rent. ABOUT OUR GUESTS Vernice Miller-Travis is a longtime environmental justice leader, co-founder of WE ACT for Environmental Justice in Harlem, and a board member of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition. Susana Almanza co-founded PODER, People Organized in Defense of Earth and Her Resources, in 1991 and directs it. She was born and raised in East Austin. LISTEN Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653 Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast FOLLOW US Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast Threads: https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245

2. 

   22 Sept 2026

   Episode 11: We Are the Ones We've Been Waiting For

   "I think the answer is pretty simple. Being comfortable with the uncomfortable." Episode 11 of Shack & Mu hands the mics to two HBCU students at the HBCU Climate Change Conference. Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali opens on June Jordan's line that we are the ones we have been waiting for, then he and Dr. Sacoby Wilson hear from Joseph Carter, a junior political science major at Texas Southern University, and Sincere Harrison, a senior at Clark Atlanta University who came up through the Bullard Center's Environmental Justice Climate Corps. The gap they describe first is awareness. Students are living with exposures nobody has told them about. Mold came up as the example, in homes and in campus facilities, and neither of them knew much about it until the research put it in front of them. Both want to make the subject interesting enough that other students actually engage. Then the question of where power comes from when the world makes you feel small. Joseph is the youngest person at his law firm and the youngest in the Texas Legislative Internship Program, which usually takes law students. He works housing defense across 72 counties in Texas, fighting unlawful evictions and the conditions landlords leave behind. Sincere walked into the Bullard Center internship with no idea what environmental justice was, spent a month in the field looking at what was fouling the air in Black communities, and has since recruited four students into the summer program. What they carry back to campus comes down to exposure. Joseph noticed a Harvard summer program had two Texas Southern students in it while other HBCUs sent far more, and he runs a nonprofit pushing opportunities to students on his campus and high schoolers around Houston. Sincere does the same at Clark Atlanta for the students behind him, because nobody told him those doors existed either. CHAPTERS 0:00 June Jordan and the next generation 0:29 Fighting for climate justice while in college 0:56 Mold, and what students are not being told 2:06 The Bullard Center internship 2:59 Why Clark Atlanta matters to this movement 3:12 You have power unless you give it away 3:43 Comfortable with the uncomfortable 4:47 Being the good you want to see 6:12 What they take back to campus 6:39 Only two Texas Southern students at Harvard 7:43 The arts question 8:06 J. Cole, Drake, and telling a story 8:38 Nas, If I Ruled the World 9:18 Closing KEY TAKEAWAYS Awareness comes first. Mold and air quality are already in dorms and neighborhoods, and nobody tells students. Discomfort is the cost of the room. Both describe being the youngest or the newest in the building and walking in anyway. One internship can redirect a career. Sincere knew nothing about environmental justice until a month in the field. Exposure compounds. Every opportunity passed down to a sophomore puts somebody else on the path. ABOUT OUR GUESTS Joseph Carter is a junior political science major at Texas Southern University. He interns with the Texas Legislative Internship Program at a firm doing housing defense work across Texas, and runs a nonprofit that gets opportunity information into students' hands. Sincere Harrison is a senior at Clark Atlanta University on a pre-law track, studying criminal justice with a sociology minor. He came through the Bullard Center's HBCU Environmental Justice Climate Corps and now recruits students into it. Find the environmental justice center closest to your campus and ask what they need. Then tell the students behind you. LISTEN Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653 Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast FOLLOW US Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast Threads: https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245

3. 

   8 Sept 2026

   Ep 10: Sankofa: Go Back to Build Forward

   "Either I'm going to complain, I'm going to leave, or I'm going to do something about it." Episode 10 of Shack & Mu is in New Orleans, where culture is not decoration. It is the strategy. Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson open on Amiri Baraka's line that an artist's role is to raise the consciousness of the people, then sit down with Rashida Ferdinand, founder of Sankofa Community Development Corporation in the Lower Ninth Ward. Food comes first, because in this city food is history you can eat. On Sankofa's land that history is growing: field peas and purple hull peas, okra, hibiscus for tea, thyme and basil, tomatoes, chickens laying fresh eggs, beehives making honey. The point is not just access to groceries. It is owning the ground your food comes from. The organization takes its name from the Ghanaian concept of going back to your past to build your future, adopted after Katrina when the resources promised to the Lower Ninth never arrived. Then the land itself. Four generations of her family have lived in that neighborhood, and her grandfather's house stood three blocks from the wetland park Sankofa restored. Go back a hundred years and this was marsh and swamp, so the restoration was less about building something new than pulling away what had been laid on top of what was already there. The people who know it best live on the block. Elders who grew up playing in that water were naturalists long before anyone handed them the word, and some are park rangers now, guiding tours from memory. Art runs through all of it. She is a sculptor and a potter, and the clay she works with comes out of the ground at the park. Everybody is an artist, and the creative act here was sculpting the land itself. The episode closes on how the model travels: education programs, school partnerships, and a way of working other neighborhoods can pick up. In this episode (0:00) Amiri Baraka and the role of the artist (0:19) Red beans, gumbo, and the history in the food (0:57) Katrina, petrochemicals, and other hazards (1:22) Meet Rashida Ferdinand of Sankofa (2:59) Why the name Sankofa (4:02) Field peas, okra, hibiscus, chickens, bees (4:53) Nature's supermarket and owning your food (5:11) Looking across the Lower Ninth after Katrina (5:28) Complain, leave, or do something about it (6:02) The vision has to come from the community (6:15) Four generations, three blocks from the wetland (6:45) What a wetland does for a neighborhood (7:10) The elders who were naturalists first (7:47) Getting kids back into nature based spaces (8:42) The soil has memory: art and the work (9:19) A sculptor whose clay comes from the park (10:30) Scaling the model past the Lower Ninth (11:13) Honoring what the land used to be (12:11) Partners doing the work alongside them (14:08) Power to the people Key takeaways Sankofa means going back to your past to build your future. The name is not a slogan, it is the method. Ownership beats access. Growing field peas, okra, hibiscus, herbs, eggs, and honey puts the food supply in community hands. The wetland was always there. Restoring it meant removing what covered it, not inventing something new. The experts live on the block. Elders who grew up in that marsh guide the tours now, teaching from memory. Everybody is an artist. She digs the clay for her pottery out of the park she helped bring back. About our guestRashida Ferdinand is the founder and executive director of Sankofa Community Development Corporation in New Orleans' Lower Ninth Ward, and a ceramic artist. Sankofa runs food access programs, gardens, and the Sankofa Wetland Park and Nature Trail. More at sankofanola.org (https://sankofanola.org/). Go back to get it. Learn what your land used to be, find the neighbors who remember, and start with what you can grow. Follow Shack & MuListen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast)Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

4. 

   24 Aug 2026

   Ep 8: Ready to Learn - Diesel, Lead Paint, and the Fight for DC's Schools

   "We don't have to make those leaders. We just need to remove the barriers." Episode 8 of Shack & Mu is about political power and public schools east of the river. Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson are joined by Erika Harrell, Executive Director of ElectED DC, which works with families in Wards 7 and 8 to build political power and shape the education policy that decides what their kids get. Nobody needs to wait for a seat at the table. Communities east of the river are not short on leadership. They are short on access. The work is clearing the path: training people to read a policy, testify at a hearing, follow the budget, and keep a feedback loop running between schools and the people making decisions. So what does "ready to learn" actually require? A kid who rides a diesel bus, comes from housing with lead paint and mold, and walks into a building where the pollution follows them inside is being asked to perform under conditions nobody has fixed. Test scores sit at the end of that chain, not the front. The episode also looks at how one old rule can shut out a whole side of the city. New language immersion elementary programs opened east of the river, but current law allows only one middle school for that program, so those students hit a wall after fifth grade. Years of parent organizing got the chancellor to order a feasibility study. Who carries this work? And what does it cost? Black women now lead most of DC's education advocacy organizations, and the expectation is to show up at 150 percent, smiling, with almost no support. The episode ends on culture rather than policy: music, community, and joy as resistance. In this episode (0:00) Welcome, and we are the ones we have been waiting for (0:42) Meet Erika Harrell of ElectED DC (1:23) Diesel buses, lead paint, and what kids carry into class (2:13) Ready to learn: listen first, then testify (3:31) Ella Baker: strong people don't need strong leaders (4:05) "If you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready" (4:43) You can't give someone power they already have (5:13) Inside the community activation cohort (7:05) The language immersion middle school gap east of the river (8:13) Recharging: five boys, three hours of sleep, a pandemic (9:57) The 150 percent expectation on Black women (10:32) Climate, food justice, and air quality in the schools (11:10) Social determinants of health with education at the center (12:21) Why the arts belong in this work (13:13) Whitney Houston and the desire for community (14:19) Joy is resistance, and you have power unless you give it away Key takeaways The leaders are already here. ElectED DC finds the people their neighbors already trust and removes the barriers in front of them. Ready to learn is an environmental question. Diesel buses, lead paint, and mold shape what happens once class starts. Listening comes before policy. Families name the issue, then the training follows: how to testify and where budget decisions really get made. One old rule can lock out a whole side of the city. A cap of one language immersion middle school means kids east of the river hit a wall after fifth grade. Black women in this work are human. Erika names the 150 percent expectation and what it costs to meet it. Joy is resistance. Music, culture, and celebration are how people stay in the fight. About our guest Erika Harrell is the Executive Director of ElectED DC, a Ward 7 resident, mother of five boys, and a former educator with more than 20 years in public education. Learn more at electeddc.org (https://electeddc.org/). Don't wait for a seat at the table. Learn who represents you, find out when hearings happen, and go testify. The power is already yours unless you give it away. Follow Shack & MuListen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast)Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

5. 

   17 Aug 2026

   Ep 7: The Youth Rising - Nature as Infrastructure

   "A system cannot fail those it was never meant to protect." Episode 7 of Shack & Mu comes from the Mobilize Frederick session at Hood College in Frederick, Maryland, where Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson gather a panel of young climate leaders who are no longer waiting to act. Environmental biology graduate student India Dennis, campus food-garden organizer Lindsay Mullins, and public health major and advocate Ahmed Bockarie, make the case that nature-based solutions, natural infrastructure, and everyday environmental justice belong at the center of how communities protect their health, their food, and their future.India Dennis traces her own path from the concrete of Wilmington, Delaware, where her grandmother took her fishing and to parks, into an environmental biology program where she was one of the only students raising environmental justice, and she names the tools young people use to see the bigger picture, from GIS mapping to social media. The conversation grounds big ideas in concrete work.Lindsay Mullins is building a food garden on her campus near Frederick, Maryland, and shows how raised beds, hydroponics, and rooftop plots put growing food within reach of students who have only known concrete. She introduces "plant blindness," the disconnect that has most of us buying fruit in winter and meat from across the world without knowing where it came from or who grew it.Ahmed Bockarie, a public health major from Sierra Leone, connects diet, chemicals, and disease, and recounts a factory that dumped waste until wells tested last month came back contaminated, long after residents had been drinking the water.Chapters:0:00 Welcome, and the next generation of leaders0:40 India: conversation, social media, and self-education2:14 Lindsay: bringing a food garden to campus3:47 Ahmed: public health, advocacy, and reaching the mind5:01 Nature-based solutions and natural infrastructure5:35 India: growing up between concrete and a grandmother's parks7:27 The power of food and "plant blindness"9:31 Public health, chemicals, and the climate connection12:19 PFAS, forever chemicals, and the long tail of harm13:29 Ahmed: realizing the power you already have16:11 Lindsay: permission to lead, right now18:28 Don't wait for the baton: Destinee Wofford's story19:04 India: power as self-awareness and lifelong learning20:50 The role of the arts 25:38 Closing: stay up, stay focused, keep making changeABOUT OUR GUESTSIndia Dennis is an environmental biology graduate student who grew up in Wilmington, Delaware, shaped by both a city childhood and a grandmother who kept her close to nature. She brings environmental justice into every topic she studies, from GIS mapping to climate denial, works as a DJ, and, now raising a child of her own, frames power as self-awareness and lifelong learning.Lindsay Mullins is a student leading the effort to build a food garden on her campus near Frederick, Maryland. Her work centers on food access, "plant blindness," and using a shared garden to bring students of different backgrounds together, alongside campus sustainability projects like composting and solar power.Ahmed Bockarie is a public health major originally from Sierra Leone. He began in medical school but left during the war in Ukraine and continued his education in the United States, guided by his late father's belief that there is more than one way to make change. He focuses on advocacy and environmental justice, using social media to reach people who do not yet see how these issues touch their lives.Don't wait for the baton. Learn who represents you, show up to campus and community meetings, and use the power you already have to push for change where you are.FOLLOW US!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcastThreads: https://www.threads.com/@shack.muFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245

6. 

   11 Aug 2026

   Episode 6: Preventing Mass Gentrification | Stadiums for Billionaires, Bills for Residents

   "We have the money to bring our sports teams back, but not to take care of our citizens." Ep 6 of Shack & Mu heads to Southeast DC, near the old RFK site, to ask who a city gets rebuilt for. As RFK 2.0 and the Commanders' return move forward, Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson dig into gentrification, displacement, and how to build without pushing people out. First up is Dr. Rhonda Hamilton, a native Washingtonian and 2026 mayoral candidate, who breaks down the bittersweet reality of a beloved team coming home while residents spend 50 to 60 percent of their income on housing. She questions the stadium deal, the thin community benefit agreement, and the backroom handshakes that leave residents out. Then equitable development expert Carlton Eley explains what gentrification really is, why social impact assessments matter, and how a community benefits agreement should work. Drawing on the North Charleston port model and faith based development wins nationwide, he lays out a path where residents guide change instead of reacting to it. Justice belongs at the heart of planning. In this episode (00:00) Welcome, and the gentrification question (03:36) Meet Dr. Rhonda Hamilton, DC mayoral candidate (04:16) Why RFK 2.0 feels bittersweet (05:44) Billionaires, a parking garage, and a raw deal (07:10) The community benefit agreement problem (07:53) How everyday people get engaged (08:55) Did we learn from the DC United stadium? (10:33) Meet Carlton Eley on equitable development (12:09) What gentrification actually means (13:27) From residential to sports complex gentrification (14:04) Social impact assessments and why they matter (16:10) The North Charleston model that worked (18:10) Real examples of getting it right (21:04) Justice at the heart of planning Key takeaways Stadiums over shelter. A city that funds arenas while residents spend 60 percent of income on housing has its priorities backward. Gentrification is a process. It unfolds over decades through market driven development that goes unregulated and unmitigated. Community benefits done right. Base them on that assessment and let residents drive them, as North Charleston did with its port expansion. Residents are the experts. Real engagement means the people who carry the burden help steer the plan. About our guests Dr. Rhonda Hamilton is a native Washingtonian, longtime mental health advocate, former real estate broker, and 2026 candidate for DC mayor. Learn more at rhondahamilton4dc.com (https://rhondahamilton4dc.com/). Carlton Eley is a nationally recognized equitable development expert and urban planner, formerly of EPA's Office of Environmental Justice. Learn more at eleygroup.com (https://www.eleygroup.com/). Follow Shack & Mu Listen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast) Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

7. 

   3 Aug 2026

   Ep 5: Data Center Ethics | Who Really Pays for the AI Boom

   "Am I supposed to pay for your data center while my own electricity bill keeps climbing?" Ep 5 of Shack & Mu lands in Glen Arden, Maryland to take on the AI data center boom and the community fighting one in their backyard. Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson break down why data centers are an environmental, public health, and economic justice issue, then sit down with organizer Staci Hartwell. The proposed Landover data center, planned for the old Landover Mall site, becomes the case study. The hosts walk through what most economic development pitches leave out: energy bills passed on to residents, diesel generators pumping out particulate matter tied to asthma and cancer, and heavy water use in a county already graded F for air quality. Staci Hartwell of the South County Environmental Justice Coalition shares what she saw inside the county's data center task force, why the community was notified late, and how a groundswell of letters and voices pulled politicians back to the table. In this episode (00:00) Welcome, and why AI data centers (00:47) The energy bills nobody agreed to pay (01:35) Diesel, particulate matter, and your health (02:45) Why ethics and transparency matter (03:07) Meet Staci Hartwell of the South County EJ Coalition (04:34) Inside the county data center task force (05:56) Turkeys, trinkets, and the developer playbook (06:36) An F for air quality and cumulative impacts (07:22) Ranked in the 86th percentile for burden (08:01) The power of the people's voice (10:18) Pro development, pro community, pro justice (12:01) Lessons from the xAI data center in Memphis (13:02) A public health, economic, and justice issue Key takeaways Your bill pays for their build. Data centers can push energy costs onto residents already facing energy poverty, forcing choices between power, medicine, and food. The pollution is real. Diesel backup power brings particulate matter, nitrogen dioxide, and VOCs tied to asthma, cancer, and shorter life expectancy. Transparency was the first casualty. The community learned about the Landover project late, and the task force was stacked with vested interests. Your voice moves politicians. Letters, turnout, and organizing pulled electeds back to the table once the people demanded it. This is about smart development. Growth the community asks for and benefits from, driven by the people who live there. About our guest Staci Hartwell is a native Washingtonian, Prince George's County resident, and strategist with the South County Environmental Justice Coalition. She has been a leading voice against the proposed Landover data center. Get engaged. Learn who represents you, show up to planning meetings, and write the letters that make decision makers listen. Follow Shack & Mu Listen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast) Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

8. 

   27 Jul 2026

   Ep 4: Urban Agriculture | Food Is Health, Food Is Wealth, Food Is Power

   <p><strong>"Food is health. Food is wealth. Food is power."</strong> Ep 4 of Shack & Mu heads to Southwest DC to talk food justice and urban agriculture with the people growing change block by block. Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson break down food deserts, food swamps, and food apartheid, then sit down with two leaders from Dreaming Out Loud.</p> <p>Founder Chris Bradshaw explains how a three acre farm becomes a catalyst for jobs, community wealth, and cultural reconnection, from seeds once carried in women's hair across the Atlantic to the African roots of country music. He makes the case for land back in the city, policy that protects growing space, and innovations like a mushroom farm built into a tiny home in Ward 8. Development director Sarita shares how she funds the work and why she launched a Food as Medicine pilot with Kaiser Permanente and the Marriott Foundation to prove what communities have always known. They close on a simple truth: access to food is a human right, and everyone deserves the chance to grow.</p> <h2>In this episode</h2> <ul> <li><strong>(00:32)</strong> Food deserts, food swamps, and the food force</li> <li><strong>(01:15)</strong> Food apartheid and who goes hungry</li> <li><strong>(01:46)</strong> Why food is health, wealth, and power</li> <li><strong>(02:40)</strong> Meet Chris Bradshaw of Dreaming Out Loud</li> <li><strong>(03:08)</strong> What food insecurity looks like in DC</li> <li><strong>(03:59)</strong> Urban agriculture, youth, and cultural reconnection</li> <li><strong>(05:50)</strong> Land back in the city and the policy fight</li> <li><strong>(07:31)</strong> How to start growing at home</li> <li><strong>(08:28)</strong> Meet Sarita and the funding behind the mission</li> <li><strong>(10:20)</strong> The Food as Medicine pilot</li> <li><strong>(12:06)</strong> A message to elected officials</li> <li><strong>(13:45)</strong> Food is health, wealth, and power</li> </ul> <h2>Key takeaways</h2> <ul> <li><strong>Grow your own power.</strong> Community gardens and urban farms on every block turn food deserts and food swamps into a food force.</li> <li><strong>Urban agriculture builds more than food.</strong> It creates jobs, community wealth, intergenerational bonds, and a path back to heritage food ways.</li> <li><strong>Land back belongs in the city.</strong> Protecting urban growing space through policy keeps community farms alive.</li> <li><strong>Proof moves funders.</strong> Dreaming Out Loud's Food as Medicine pilot builds the data to back what communities already live.</li> <li><strong>Food is a human right.</strong> No one should have to fight for access to healthy food.</li> </ul> <h2>About our guests</h2> <p>Chris Bradshaw is the founder and executive director of Dreaming Out Loud, a DC nonprofit and social enterprise running a farm, food hub, and food incubator. Sarita is the organization's development director, funding the mission and leading its Food as Medicine pilot. To learn more about Dreaming Out Loud and their incredible work, visit <a href="https://dreamingoutloud.org/">dreamingoutloud.org</a> and follow them on Instagram at <a href="https://www.instagram.com/doldc/">@doldc</a>.</p> <p>Back a local community garden or urban farm, and start something on your own windowsill this week.</p> <h2>Follow Shack & Mu</h2> <p><strong>Listen:</strong> <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653">Apple Podcasts</a> | <a href="https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move">Amazon Music</a> | <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast">YouTube</a></p> <p><strong>Social:</strong> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/">Instagram</a> | <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast">TikTok</a> | <a href="https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu">Threads</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245">Facebook</a></p>

9. 

   20 Jul 2026

   Episode 3: Government Shutdown | Money for War, Nothing for the Poor

   "We got money for war but can't feed the poor." Episode 3 of Shack & Mu opens on Tupac and lands squarely on the government shutdown and who actually pays the price. Dr. Sacoby Wilson and Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali break down what happens when federal workers go unpaid, agencies get gutted, and the safety net starts to fray. From the elimination of the Office of Environmental Justice to cuts at FEMA, NOAA, and food inspection, the hosts connect the dots between Washington decisions and everyday consequences: unpaid air traffic controllers, foodborne illness risk, Medicaid and Medicare cuts, and 80 million people uninsured or underinsured. They call out troops sent to blue cities, the "no waste was ever found" reality behind the cuts, and a ballroom rising over the East Wing while millions struggle. Then they pivot to hope, reading the November 2025 elections as a turning point and laying out what community, philanthropy, storytelling, and your vote can do next. In this Episode: (00:36) DOGE, an unelected billionaire, and gutted agencies (02:24) FEMA, NOAA, and food inspectors on the chopping block (04:19) Unpaid aviation workers and a Houston airspace shutdown (05:20) Troops sent to blue cities, and the DC test case (07:29) The waste that was never actually found (08:31) COVID echoes and rising prices (09:29) Medicaid, Medicare, and 80 million uninsured (10:46) Working without pay, and broken promises (12:21) What you can do right now (13:59) Reading the November 2025 elections (17:25) The beloved community and the moral arc (19:16) ICE, Homeland Security, and private jets (21:13) The East Wing, the ballroom, and erasure (22:48) Rapid fire: ROI, data, philanthropy, joy, and hope Key Takeaways The shutdown is not just a DC story. Unpaid workers, unsafe food, grounded flights, and a weakened economy ripple into every community. The cuts did not find waste. Inspectors general and the Congressional Budget Office exist to catch fraud, and the agencies were built because people needed them. Health cuts put lives at risk. Slashing Medicaid, Medicare, and coverage hits the 80 million already uninsured or underinsured hardest. Community is the response. Support food pantries and mutual aid, back the workers going unpaid, and tell the stories that make the impact real. Elections start the work, they do not end it. The November results are momentum, and accountability is what comes next. If today's conversation got you thinking, hold your elected officials accountable. Knock on their doors, demand they fight to end the shutdown and restore funding, and support the food pantries and mutual aid groups carrying your neighbors right now. Listen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast) Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

10. 

    16 Jul 2026

    Episode 2: Power & Pollution | Shack & Mu

    "You may not believe in climate change, but climate change believes in you." In episode 2 of Shack & Mu, Dr. Sacoby Wilson and Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali get real about disasters and the people the cameras never show: category five hurricanes, 128 degree heat, biblical floods, and the communities forced to survive them with the least help and the least blame. Opening with James Baldwin's line about making people conscious of what they do not see, the hosts trace a line from Hurricane Katrina, where Dr. Ali served on the emergency response team, to Maria, Harvey, Helene, and the LA fires. They name the pattern: the same people get hit hardest every time, and they usually contributed least to the problem. Dr. Wilson unpacks "compounding vulnerabilities," why a floodplain floods for a reason, and how toxic Superfund sites turn a flood into a poison soup. Then they turn to solutions: hurricane resistant housing, heat and housing justice, cooling centers, trees on every block, faith centers as disaster hubs, and building justice back into FEMA. In this episode (00:16) Hurricane Melissa and the case for a category six (02:58) Katrina on the ground, firsthand (05:51) Paper towels and "great job, Brownie" (08:21) Compounding vulnerabilities explained (11:40) Rebuild or relocate, and FEMA's inequities (15:20) Zoning, Phoenix heat, and building codes (18:04) Cooling centers, trees, and Baltimore's Code Red study (20:45) Rapid fire: faith groups, fossil fuels, youth, and FEMA (25:00) When disaster meets ICE Key takeaways The same people get hit hardest. Black, Latino, Indigenous, low income, uninsured, and floodplain communities carry the heaviest losses while contributing least to emissions. A flood is rarely just water. When Superfund sites breach, one contained hazard becomes a toxic soup spread across a whole community. Build justice into the code. Hurricane resistant housing, heat justice, and smart zoning protect people before the next event. Trees and cooling centers save lives. A single street tree can mean a 20 to 30 degree difference. Save the vulnerable and you save everyone. Equity in preparedness and recovery is the whole strategy, not an add on. Call your local representative and tell them what you expect on climate preparedness, find your nearest cooling center, and support the faith centers and mutual aid groups acting as disaster hubs. Follow Shack & Mu Listen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast) Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

11. 

    15 Jul 2026

    Feeding the Future

    "A system cannot fail those it was never meant to protect." In the debut episode of Shack & Mu, Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali and Dr. Sacoby Wilson pull back the curtain on America's food system and ask a blunt question: why do millions in the wealthiest country on earth go hungry, and what can everyday folks do about it? Recorded as new federal SNAP cuts hit 42 million people, this conversation moves from the kitchen table to the halls of power. Kobe, who grew up on free lunch and SNAP in Vicksburg, Mississippi, breaks down the difference between food deserts, food swamps, and food apartheid. From there the two dig into school lunch politics, the wisdom of Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver, and why growing your own food is as much about dignity and spirituality as nutrition. They close with a rapid fire round on what youth, schools, churches, cities, and policymakers can do starting tomorrow. In this episode (00:35) The "big bullcrap bill" and SNAP cuts (01:00) Food deserts, food swamps, and food apartheid explained (03:03) School lunch, vending machines, and long term health (05:15) Booker T. Washington and self sufficiency (08:15) Muscadines, scuppernongs, and the neighborhood food forest (09:00) Hydroponics, aquaponics, and green roofs (10:34) Food as spiritual, food as dignity (12:00) The million dollar question: a garden in every school (13:48) Rapid fire: youth, schools, churches, cities, and policy Key takeaways Food apartheid, not food desert. The lack of fresh food in low income and Black and Brown neighborhoods is a designed system, not an accident. Growing your own food is power. From raised beds to green roofs, communities can reconnect to the land even without much land. Start with kids. A school garden teaches growing, cooking, and health all at once. Everyday people belong in policymaking. The folks who stood in the pantry line when the shelves were empty should help write the rules. Talk is good, action is better. Reach out to a neighbor, call your town council or PTA about a school garden, and check whether your local food pantry is stocked. Follow Shack & Mu on all platforms! Listen: Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shack-and-mu-on-the-move/id6790418653) | Amazon Music (https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3140c06d-4c46-4bb8-8054-5d8e4ae47f66/shack-and-mu-on-the-move) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@ShackMuPodcast) Social: Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/shack.mu/) | TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@shack.mu.podcast) | Threads (https://www.threads.com/@shack.mu) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61591512191245)

12. 

    6 Jul 2026

    Shack & Mu Trailer

    Dr. Sacoby Wilson and Dr. Mustafa Santiago Ali spent decades on the frontlines. Now they're bringing the mic to you. They've spent decades on the frontlines of environmental, economic, racial, and health justice, and now those conversations are landing in your feed. The Shack & Mu Show takes it to the streets, putting real voices from real communities front and center so you can hear how change actually happens. Food justice. AI's environmental toll. The power of your vote. These are systemic issues, and the fight for solutions starts here. Subscribe on all platforms now. You won't want to miss a single episode.

Contact Shack and Mu | On the Move

Guest appearances

Books guests

Based on episode analysis; this does not confirm that the show is currently accepting guests.