Speaking of Alternatives is an original podcast from PGIM, providing a global perspective on the rich and diverse landscape of alternative investments. Each month, leading experts cut through the complexities and get to the heart of alternative investing. Together they look beyond the headlines and scrutinise the latest trends and strategies driving this important asset class.
Lower middle market direct lending remains one of the most structurally underserved segments in private credit. As traditional banks have stepped back, specialist lenders are playing an increasingly important role in providing capital to established, sponsor-backed businesses.
In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan is joined by Tas Hasan, Managing Partner and Chief Operating Officer at Deerpath Capital, PGIM's lower middle market direct lending platform.
Together, they explore the concept of the "missing middle" in private markets, how Deerpath sources and underwrites opportunities at scale, and why discipline, consistency and relationships remain central to success in this segment. Tas also shares perspectives on today's opportunity set, the role of covenants in credit investing, and how lenders are thinking about emerging themes such as AI through the lens of cash flow durability.
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Key Takeaways:
● What Lower Middle Market Direct Lending Is and Why It Matters – [03:00]
● The "Missing Middle" Opportunity in Private Credit – [04:00]
● Why Structural Inefficiencies Continue to Support the Opportunity Set – [07:00]
● Understanding AI Risk Through Cash Flow Durability – [10:00]
● The Importance of Covenants as a Tool for Active Risk Management – [17:00]
● How Sponsors Influence Outcomes in Lower Middle Market Lending – [21:00]
*The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.*
Learn More:
• @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim
• @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/
• PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim
Shareables:
"Lower middle market lending is not a niche — it's a large part of the market that has simply been under-served." — Tas Hasan
"As a lender, our job isn't to predict the future — it's to protect against what can go wrong." — Tas Hasan
"In direct lending, covenants are not about control, they're about early engagement." — Tas Hasan
"Lower middle market lending is not a niche — it's a large part of the market that has simply been under-served." — Tas Hasan
21 Apr 2026
… Let's Talk MCP 2025 Annual Investor Survey
Private equity secondaries have grown from a niche strategy into a core allocation for investors navigating volatility, slower exits and liquidity constraints. As markets evolve, secondaries are increasingly seen as an "all‑weather" approach to private equity exposure.
In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan is joined by Dan Klima, Managing Partner at Montana Capital Partners (MCP), the private equity secondaries platform of PGIM. Anchored by MCP's latest annual investor survey, Dan shares how investors are responding to the changing private equity exit environment.
Together, they explore why the middle market remains a particularly compelling opportunity set and how co‑investments and seasoned portfolios can help improve cash flow profiles and mitigate the J‑curve.
Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform.
Key Takeaways:
● Why Secondaries Are Viewed as an "All-Weather" Strategy – [05:30]
● Insights from MCP's Annual Investor Survey: Allocations and Volatility – [06:30]
● Why the Middle Market Is a Sweet Spot for Value Creation – [11:30]
● How Co-Investments Enhance Efficiency, Due Diligence and Cash Flows – [14:00]
*The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.*
Learn More:
• @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim
• @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/
• PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim
Shareables:
"Private equity secondaries are fundamentally about providing liquidity to an illiquid asset, and doing so across market cycles." — Dan Klima
"Our investor survey shows that confidence in secondaries remains strong, even amid prolonged volatility." — Dan Klima
"Secondaries can offer instant diversification, J‑curve mitigation and more consistent cash flows." — Dan Klima
"The middle market can provide greater optionality for both value creation and exits." — Dan Klima
17 Mar 2026
… Let's Talk RealAssetX
Real assets are undergoing a profound transformation. Once viewed as a traditional "buy‑and‑hold" asset class, they're now shaped by operational complexity, AI, energy systems, climate pressures and rapid technological convergence. As these forces accelerate, investors are increasingly asking: what does it take to stay ahead?
In this episode, Keshav Rajagopalan sits down with Naqash Tahir, Managing Director, Research, Development and Investments at RealAssetX, PGIM's innovation lab for real assets. They explore how RealAssetX was built to bridge the worlds of academia, venture capital and institutional investors, and why PGIM chose to create an upstream platform focused on research, validation and innovation before product design.
Subscribe to Speaking of Alternatives on your favourite podcast platform.
Key Takeaways:
● How Academia, Startups and Investors Form the Innovation Ecosystem – [06:00]
● From Concept to Application: AI-driven HVAC Optimisation – [15:00]
● What the Market Isn't Pricing In: AI, ESG Value Transfer & Tokenisation – [13:00]
● What's Next for RealAssetX: Global Expansion & Ready-to-Scale Technologies – [17:30]
*The views expressed are those of the speakers at the time of recording and may not reflect their current opinions. This content is not investment advice.*
Learn More:
• @PGIM on X: https://twitter.com/pgim
• @PGIM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgim/
• PGIM on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pgim
Shareables:
"Real assets are no longer passive, they're operational, data driven systems shaped by AI, climate and infrastructure convergence." — Naqash Tahir
"To innovate in real assets, you need academia, startups and institutional capital working together. That's the ecosystem RealAssetX was built for." — Naqash Tahir
"The biggest risk in innovation is doing nothing. Failing fast is how you learn, adapt and stay ahead of the market." — Naqash Tahir
"The market still prices buildings like it's 2010. AI is creating NOI uplift that almost no one has modelled in yet." — Naqash Tahir
Reach and audience
Public platform figures. Ratings count people who left a rating, not total listeners.
Apple Podcasts (US)
4.2 / 5
6 ratings
Spotify
4.8 / 5
4 ratings
Podcast Authority Score: 44 / 100
A composite of feed quality, social presence, YouTube performance and engagement. Read the methodology.
Quality
50
Social presence
94
YouTube
0
Engagement
51
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