How do you reclaim your life after it's been burned to the ground by systemic corruption? Long-time friends Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark were forced to find out after joining brave survivors and speaking up about their own experiences of religious corruption and sexual misconduct within two organizations - a U.S. megachurch and an anti-trafficking non-profit.
Finally, after years of work to reclaim themselves and know their own stories, Sarah and Corinne are sharing it all with you.
The ruin.
The rise.
The return.
It's all here. Maybe your story lives in this rhythm, too.
Episodes release each Sunday.
Learn more at https://www.spiritualpyro.com
S1 E16: In this celebratory season finale of Spiritual Pyro, Sarah and Corinne reflect on their journey of writing and the upcoming release of their book, the skies are full of us. They discuss the importance of celebrating milestones, the concept of the "death of the author", and the emotional weight of their creative process. They explore how their personal stories intertwine and the power of words to inspire change. As they toast to their achievements, they invite listeners to find their own stories within the pages of their work.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
Pick up your copy of the skies are full of us at bookshop.org (https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-skies-are-full-of-us-a-true-story-of-speaking-up-burning-down-and-the-unbreakable-bond-of-friendship-corinne-shark/3023210836296d40?ean=9780997064223&next=t) or your favorite bookstore.
6 Oct 2025
S1E15: Returning to Ourselves - Excerpts from "Return" section of "the skies are full of us" by Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark
S1E15 — Returning to Ourselves
After the ashes of Ruin and the slow climb of Rise, comes Return — the sacred threshold where Sarah and Corinne find their way back to themselves. This is the part of the story where reclamation takes root: where the quiet becomes a kind of summoning, and where survival turns into something luminous and whole.
Corinne reads from her “Sanctuary” chapter, a glimpse of reclaiming her thirteen-year-old self — the rebel, the dreamer, the girl who refused to disappear. It’s perhaps a reckoning with roots and rebellion, a love letter to the self that once ran wild and is finally being welcomed home.
Sarah reads from “Kachina Woman,” a reflection on returning to the desert, the feminine divine, legacy, and the ancient rhythm of belonging that never really left her.
Together, they explore what it means to return — not to who they were before, but to who they were always meant to be.
✨ This episode is an invitation to remember the parts of yourself you left behind, to listen for your own return, and to find beauty in the becoming.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
21 Sept 2025
S1E14 - Excerpts from "Rise" section of "the skies are full of us" by Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark
S1E14 - Excerpts from "Rise" section of "the skies are full of us" by Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark
After the "Ruin" section of "the skies are full of us" comes "Rise" - the place where Sarah and Corinne lift their eyes and begin pushing up from the ashes of their former selves.
Corinne reads from her "desert muse" chapter:
...The desert air is thick with a femininity I’ve never noticed. Gorgeous blooms burst from every branch and stem, colors both subtle, like the palest pink of a flowering ironwood, and wildly audacious, like the fuchsia fruit of a prickly pear. Wildlife flutters and soars and scampers and slithers at every turn. Sunlight whispering through morning clouds, boldly declaring itself by midday and flinging a neon masterpiece across the sky through particles of dust and refracted rays just before dusk. Songs and scents ride the wind and moisture hangs from cumulus clouds, water swollen between cactus ribs and surging in streams that trickle beneath the ground. The sheer magnitude of her fullness will sustain her through the coming heat, and she is not afraid. She holds the momentum of her own cycles within herself. The desert flaunts her power...
Sarah reads from her "solstice" chapter:
...A photo slipped out from a pile that still needed to be gathered in a box. I lifted it to the light and caught my breath. Emerson was about eight years old, sitting on his bike in the middle of our street, surrounded by his best friends from the neighborhood. His fist was raised high, pumping the air, wind in his hair, biggest grin on his face. A moment of raw joy. And now, a bittersweet memory of what we had and what we had to give up. I pulled the photograph close to my heart, knowing the move was causing a deep fracture not only in my world but in theirs. The loss and impact were massive, and I hated that I couldn’t protect all of us from it. I folded the photo and placed it in my wallet. I wanted to keep it there so that when I’d see it, I’d feel it. I didn’t want to forget the love or the loss. They both told the stories I wanted to practice telling. One without the other wouldn’t ring as true...
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
7 Sept 2025
E13: Excerpts from the "Ruin" section of "the skies are full of us" by Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark
E13: Excerpts from the "Ruin" section of "the skies are full of us" by Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark
At long last, Sarah and Corinne share excerpts from their upcoming book, "the skies are full of us: a true story of speaking up, burning down, and the unbreakable bond of friendship" releasing from Rebeca Books on October 21, 2025. Each of these readings is from the first of the three sections - Ruin, Rise, and Redemption - into which "the skies are full of us" is arranged.
Sarah's excerpt pulls back the curtain on the intimate and excruciating experience of her and her husband, Steve Carter, pressing "Send" on his resignation from Willow Creek Community Church. By allowing listeners and readers into this sacred moment of ending, she allows us to witness the pain, fear, heartbreak, and devastation with which both she and Steve wrestled as they fought to walk with integrity and love, even as it cost them dearly.
Corinne's excerpt recounts that moment where the insulating bubble of travel from Thailand burst and she, her husband, and their small children exited the airplane back onto U.S. soil. They returned as shells of the hopeful, excited selves they'd been when embarking on what they'd believed to be world shifting work with The Exodus Road to fight human trafficking. With these words, Corinne lets us see the heart and devastation roiling beneath ashen skin and broken spirits.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
24 Aug 2025
S1E12: When Friendship Falters
S1E12 When Friendship Falters
Continuing their discussion of friendship from Episode 11, Sarah and Corinne delve deep into their evolved understanding of how to behave and be when the smooth waters of relationship get choppy. What do you do when you get to a point in a relationship where there's a miss, whether that's a misunderstanding, a miscommunication, or a misalignment? When fracture or disruption happens, both parties are then invited into a decision. Is this something to figure out and navigate and work toward repairing or rebuilding and moving forward? Or is this a type of disruption that signals the completion of the relationship? Sarah and Corinne discuss how they practice navigating disruption in relationships while honoring their new ways of being, but not requiring the abandonment of themselves or regression into old patterns and thought processes.
Corinne dives into her realization of the collision of that old, ingrained desire to be right (which also meant she was “good”) with the newer, refreshing desire to grow in deep relationship. Sarah, too, is ever-learning to step away from an old way – the one that required her to have the appearance of submission and meekness – so that she can have authentically connected relationships rather than codependency that forces her to abandon her sense of justice.
Together, they explore the concept of forgiveness – both how to extend it, and how to vulnerably place yourself in a position of acknowledging the need for it.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
10 Aug 2025
S1E11: You Can't Find Your Pack Until You Howl
You Can't Find Your Pack Until You Howl
After decades of believing friendship would just happen naturally, midlife often reveals a different truth: finding your people is an intentional, soul-level pursuit. Sarah and Corinne talk about the ways we locate — and are located by — the women who feel like home. They explore Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estés’ idea that sometimes we must howl to find our pack, and what it means to send out that call in a season of life when authenticity matters more than fitting in.
They share stories of friendships that were safe harbors, and others that became painful to leave behind — the slow grief of realizing someone no longer celebrates your growth, the courage it takes to walk away, and the quiet joy of finding friends who want you to become more of yourself, not less.
Together, they unpack the difference between companions who hold you small and those who expand you. From coffee dates to late-night porch talks, from women who cheer you on in your most unvarnished moments to those who sit with you through heartbreak and reinvention, this conversation is about building a circle where mutual growth, accountability, and genuine delight live side by side. Sarah and Corinne also reflect on how friendship shifts in midlife — less about quantity, more about depth, alignment, and the kind of laughter that feels like medicine.
Listen in as they explore how to send out your howl, how to answer another’s, and how to honor the endings that make space for new beginnings. This episode is for anyone longing for community that feels like oxygen, for the reminder that healthy friendship is one of the most sacred relationships we get to build.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com.
27 Jul 2025
Reconstruction
Reconstruction
After you've deconstructed and set aside the beliefs that you've grown past, what's next? How do you go about rebuilding and reconstructing yourself? Sarah and Corinne explore the idea that leaving religion doesn't mean leaving yourself, though it may feel that way sometimes. They discuss the concept of benevolent patriarchy, which appears kind on its surface but actually serves as another way to negate a woman's agency over herself. Sarah explains more about IFS (Internal Family Systems) Therapy and the questions that are explored therein, specifically with regard to deconstruction and reconstruction.
Corinne discusses her surprise during a visit to an indie bookstore when she opened a book on whales and read, "Show me the difference between a cathedral and physics." She recalls her time at Chapel of the Holy Cross in Sedona and its massive painting above the votive candles: a portrait of a woman, draped in reds, purples, and blues and staring evocatively at the parishioners. Her mind wanders to other examples of "cathedrals" she's encountered in both the natural and human-made worlds.
Listen in as Sarah and Corinne discuss what it looks like to walk away from religion...and into an authentic life of spirituality and the sacred.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
13 Jul 2025
Phantom Faith
Episode 9 - Phantom Faith
While they’ve left their former religious tradition behind, Sarah and Corinne now must begin the arduous task of creating a new paradigm through which to live and understand. When Sarah’s beloved father-in-law passes, she falls back on her old ways and walks into a Christian church – only to be confronted with triggering music and environment that send her running outside in a panic. Corinne listens to Robyn Sherwell’s cover of “Landslide” and begins to identify with it in ways she did not before.
Both women come to see that they gave up their own agency in order to live within the Christian tradition and that stepping outside of it requires a conscious change in habitual behaviors. Echoes of their former belief structure and church ecosystem ripple through their lives, leaving in their wake a phantom faith akin to an amputee’s sensation of the lost limb.
They examine the intentions behind the oft-repeated Christian phrase, “I’ll pray for you,” and find that, while it could be about trying to affect a desired outcome, it also could simply be an expression of “with you.” It is this latter sentiment that still rings true amidst the ghostly waves of the phantom faith reverberations.
Far from needing answers or outcomes for everything, they’re learning that questions don’t always need answers. Unknowing from an attitude of marvel and presence – sitting with each other in the uncertainty - can sometimes be the full experience.
In the Christianity they practiced before, they outsourced wisdom and power to a being beyond themselves. Now they’re now coming to wonder if what they’ve been waiting for and needing has actually been within them all along.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
29 Jun 2025
Deconstruction Part 2 - Seeing Behind the Curtain
Sarah Carter and Corinne explore the experiences inside and outside the church that prompted their individual deconstructions of faith, ultimately leading them to similar conclusions; this is an interview episode.
15 Jun 2025
Deconstruction Part 1 - What We Were Handed
Hosts Sarah Carter and Corinne delve into their formative years within Christianity, examining the narratives and experiences that shaped their early faith before significant scandals, in this interview episode.
8 Jun 2025
Telling Stories
Hosts Sarah Carter and Corinne share easier, beautiful stories from their lives, revealing nuggets of insight and inviting listeners to join in laughter and wonder.
1 Jun 2025
Bonfires on the Bluff
Hosts Sarah Carter and Corinne explore resources like IFS therapy, books by Richard C. Schwartz, Gabor Mate, and Bessel A. van der Kolk, movies, and Taylor Swift's music to discuss women's health and healing.
25 May 2025
The Damn Yellow Notebook
Hosts Sarah Carter and Corinne discuss their healing journeys through voice memos, therapy, and unfiltered writing, highlighting the importance of finding joy after survival in this episode.
18 May 2025
That Time We Looked for a Lawyer and Found a Publisher (or, This is How It Works, Part II)
S1E3: On the heels of their devastating publishing contract termination, Sarah and Corinne realize they need to secure legal representation before making any additional decisions about their book manuscript. In the process, they reconnect with someone from their former publishing house and, suddenly, the skies are full of us.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
11 May 2025
That Time Our Publisher Broke Up With Us Via a YouTube Video (or, This is How It Works, Part I)
S1E2: That Time Our Publisher Broke Up With Us Via a YouTube Video (or, This is How It Works, Part I)
Fast forwarding from the stories shared in Episode 1, we now join Sarah and Corinne at the point in their journeys when they realized they were being inspired to write a book together. The act of doing so ushered in a sense of freedom and return to self unlike anything they'd known since the devastating experiences discussed in the previous episode. Leaders of corrupt systems aren't big fans of having their misdeeds memorialized for all time between the covers of a book, though. Here in Episode 2, Sarah and Corinne share the first part of their publishing experience and how it, too, called Ruin back into their journeys.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
4 May 2025
An Interim Message
This episode features a message from the head of the 1C Story Network regarding the production of Spiritual Pyro and the ongoing work toward its next chapter.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com/).
27 Apr 2025
What the Hell Happened?
S1E1: What The Hell Happened
You are about to hear the personal experiences of Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark, told by them, in their own words. Sarah's husband is the former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois. At the time of his service, more than 25k congregants gathered at Willow Creek each weekend to worship. In 2018, multiple women came forward to assert that the founding pastor of Willow Creek had been engaging in sexual misconduct for decades. The fallout of this hit many lives, including Sarah’s. Corinne's husband is a former lead investigator for The Exodus Road, a non-profit whose website states they are “on the front lines of the fight to end human trafficking.” When the Sharks encountered a culture of inappropriate sexual behavior by organization leadership in 2017, they attempted to address it internally. They paid dearly for that act.
This is Sarah's story. This is Corinne's story. Let the women speak.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram:
@heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com (http://www.spiritualpyro.com).
18 Apr 2025
Spiritual Pyro - Coming April 27, 2025
Sarah Carter and Corinne Shark are finally breaking their silence. Hear the story of their ruin, their rise, and their return to themselves - firsthand. If you've ever stood up to corruption or had systemic injustice crash into your life, you'll likely find whispers of your story here, too.
Full episodes begin weekly releases every Sunday starting April 27, 2025.
Pull up a chair, gather around the fire, and don't forget your matches.
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Podcast Authority Score: 39 / 100
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