That IP Podcast

About That IP Podcast

This podcast is all about the blood, sweat, lessons, and tears that shape intellectual property careers. We go beyond job titles and accolades to uncover the real journeys of IP professionals around the world — the highs, the lows, the turning points, and the lessons learned along the way. Each episode features unfiltered conversations with people across the IP world, offering the kind of behind the scenes insight you won’t find on a LinkedIn profile. You’ll hear how they broke into the field, navigated career crossroads, overcame setbacks, and continue to innovate in a profession that’s constantly evolving. Expect honest reflections, rare perspectives, and the kind of candid storytelling that’s usually kept behind closed doors.

Publisher

Harry Hawthorne

Category

business · education · technology

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

21 Sept 2025

Latest episode

24 Mar 2026

Latest episodes

11 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   24 Mar 2026

   Episode 11: Shital Shah - Deputy Chief IP Counsel @ Caterpillar Inc

   In this episode of That IP Podcast, hosted by Harry Hawthorne, sits down with Shital Shah, a senior in-house IP leader at Caterpillar Inc, to explore a career that has spanned more than two decades at one of the world’s most recognisable industrial companies. Shital shares his journey from studying engineering at the University of Cincinnati to making the pivot into law, a decision shaped by real-world experience and a desire to find work that aligned with his strengths in communication, problem-solving, and working with people. He reflects on starting his legal career in criminal law as a public defender, gaining courtroom experience and perspective before transitioning into intellectual property and beginning his path in patent law. The conversation then follows Shital’s move in-house to Caterpillar, where he has spent over 20 years building his career and helping shape a global IP function. He discusses what it takes to transition from private practice into an in-house role, the importance of understanding the “why” behind intellectual property, and how aligning legal work with broader business strategy creates real value. Harry and Shital also dive into what makes lawyers successful in an in-house environment, from communication and relationship-building to the ability to work closely with engineers and senior leadership. Shital shares candid insights on hiring, what he looks for in candidates, and how younger lawyers can stand out early in their careers by building trust, developing strong networks, and becoming genuinely valuable to the teams around them. Throughout the episode, Shital speaks openly about career challenges, setbacks, and the importance of perspective when navigating difficult moments. He discusses leadership, mentorship, and the role of culture in building high-performing teams, emphasising that people and relationships ultimately define long-term success more than titles or accolades. The episode also looks ahead to the future of the profession, with a focus on emerging technologies like AI and how lawyers can adapt in a rapidly changing landscape. Shital’s advice is clear: embrace change, stay curious, and focus on the human skills that technology cannot replace. It’s a thoughtful and practical conversation about building a sustainable career, finding the right environment to grow, and what it truly means to succeed in-house at a global organisation.

2. 

   17 Mar 2026

   Episode 10: Bruce Wexler - Global Co-Chair of Intellectual Property at Paul Hastings

   In this episode of That IP Podcast, hosted by Harry Hawthorne, sits down with Bruce Wexler, Global Co-Chair of the Intellectual Property practice at Paul Hastings and one of the most respected patent trial lawyers in the United States. With a career spanning more than three decades, Bruce has built a reputation for leading high-stakes patent litigation, particularly in the life sciences sector, where the outcome of a case can impact multi-billion-dollar drug products and entire companies. Bruce shares the unlikely story of how he entered the legal profession. Originally studying physics at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute with the intention of pursuing a career in science, a chance conversation with a friend introduced him to the idea of becoming a patent lawyer. What began as a moment of curiosity ultimately set Bruce on a path to NYU School of Law, a clerkship at the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, and a career at the center of some of the most complex patent disputes in the industry. He helped build the firm’s life sciences patent litigation practice in New York from the ground up. Bruce reflects on the risks involved in making that move, the pressure of launching a new practice with just a handful of lawyers, and the pivotal early trial victory that helped establish the team and put the practice on the map. Throughout the episode, Bruce shares insights on the realities of high-stakes litigation, the mindset required to handle bet-the-company cases, and the lessons he has learned over three decades in practice about mentorship, leadership, and developing judgment as a lawyer. He also reflects on how the profession is evolving, including the growing role of AI and what young lawyers must do to remain valuable in a rapidly changing legal landscape.

3. 

   27 Jan 2026

   Episode 9: Peter Lando - Law Firm Founder at Lando & Anastasi

   In this episode of That IP Podcast, hosted by Harry Hawthorne, sits down with Peter Lando, co-founder of Lando & Anastasi and one of the most respected intellectual property practitioners in the United States. Peter’s career spans engineering, business, and law — a rare combination that has shaped his approach to advising innovators, investors, and companies operating at the intersection of technology and commercial strategy. Peter reflects on his early career as a chemical engineer at BASF, his transition into law after nearly a decade in industry, and how that hands-on experience continues to inform the way he thinks about intellectual property, risk, and value creation. The conversation explores why great IP lawyers must go beyond technical excellence, and how understanding a client’s business objectives is often the real differentiator. Harry and Peter dive into the story behind founding Lando & Anastasi in 2003 — what it takes to build and scale an IP boutique, the energy and uncertainty of the early years, and how culture, trust, and long-term thinking can shape a firm’s identity over decades. Peter also shares candid insights on mentorship, loyalty in the legal profession, and why empathy, judgment, and problem-solving matter just as much as legal precision. The episode also looks forward, touching on the evolution of IP practice, the impact of technology and AI, and how young lawyers can future-proof their careers by developing breadth, judgment, and commercial awareness. Throughout, Peter emphasizes a core philosophy that has guided his career: don’t tell clients “no” — help them understand how. It’s a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about building a meaningful legal career, serving clients well, and staying grounded while navigating change in the IP landscape.

4. 

   20 Jan 2026

   Episode 8: Neel Chatterjee - Tech & IP Litigation Partner at King & Spalding

   In this episode of That IP Podcast, host Harry Hawthorne sits down with Neel Chatterjee, partner and co-head of the Intellectual Property Litigation Practice at King & Spalding and one of the most respected technology trial lawyers of his generation. Recently named Attorney of the Year by The American Lawyer in 2025 — an honor widely regarded as the legal industry’s highest — Neel reflects on a career defined by high-stakes technology disputes, landmark cases, and moments that helped shape modern internet and IP law. Neel walks through his path into the law, from his academic foundations at Dartmouth College and Vanderbilt University School of Law to clerking for the Colorado Supreme Court and the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, before building a national reputation for stepping into the hardest cases — often just before trial — where the outcome can define a company’s future. Neel speaks candidly about mentorship, leadership, and the responsibility that comes with influence. He reflects on founding the Bay Area Diversity Career Fair, serving on numerous nonprofit and professional boards, and why diversity, sponsorship, and honest feedback are not optional add-ons but core to the profession’s future. The episode also touches on burnout, longevity, client trust, and how to build a legal career that sustains intensity without losing perspective. It’s a wide-ranging, grounded conversation about trial law, technology, and what it really takes to stay at the top over decades — while still enjoying the work and bringing others along with you.

5. 

   9 Dec 2025

   Episode 7: Mike Jakes - Patent Litigation Partner at Finnegan

   In this episode of That IP Podcast, host Harry Hawthorne sits down with Mike Jakes, long-time partner at Finnegan and one of the leading figures in patent litigation and appeals, to walk through a 37-year career that started in engineering and evolved into high-stakes IP work. Mike explains how his early days as an electrical engineer at Westinghouse and night-school computer science degree at Johns Hopkins shaped the way he thinks about technology, how a single lunch with legendary patent lawyer Don Dunner nudged him toward law school at Georgetown, and why clerking for Judge Giles Rich at the Federal Circuit was a defining experience. He reflects on joining Finnegan in 1988 and never leaving, what it was like practicing before email and online research, and how the mechanics of lawyering have changed while the fundamentals of advocacy and judgment have stayed the same. Mike talks about learning from giants of the profession, the value of honest feedback, how to seek and use mentorship, and why good writing and constant reading still sit at the heart of great lawyering. He shares his thoughts on burnout, long-term career sustainability, building habits that actually matter, the realities of winning and losing in court, and even his trial ritual of pizza and My Cousin Vinny. It’s a grounded, thoughtful conversation about building a long career in patents, staying curious, and figuring things out as you go.

6. 

   2 Dec 2025

   Episode 6: Brett Schuman - Co-Chair of IP Litigation at Goodwin

   In this episode of That IP Podcast, host Harry Hawthorne sits down with Brett Schuman, Co-Chair of IP at Goodwin, to trace his journey from the University of Michigan and Harvard Law to nearly three decades in high-stakes IP litigation. Brett shares how an internship at a public defender service in Washington DC first drew him toward law, what it was really like walking into Harvard Law and facing Arthur Miller’s famously intense Socratic civil procedure class, and why clerking for the New Jersey Supreme Court became a foundational experience that shaped the litigator he is today. He reflects on the rise and fall of Brobeck during the dot-com era, his transition to Morgan Lewis, and his early exposure to tech and IP work that ultimately defined his career. Brett speaks candidly about the gap between what law school teaches and what clients actually need, how he thinks about sacrifice and work–life balance, staying engaged in the job after 28 years, and handling the emotional side of losing a trial and using those moments to improve. He also talks about the importance of mentorship, how to navigate difficult periods in your career, and the mindset required to keep developing long after you’ve “made it.” This conversation is packed with practical career advice, honest stories from inside BigLaw, and real insight into what it takes to build and sustain a successful career at the top of the IP litigation world.

7. 

   18 Nov 2025

   Episode 5: Ian Ballon - Co-Chair of IP & Tech Group at Greenberg Traurig

   In this episode, Harry Hawthorne sits down with Ian Ballon, one of the foremost litigators in intellectual property, internet law, and data privacy. Ian shares his journey from studying economics to becoming a trusted advisor in Silicon Valley, explains how big data has transformed litigation strategy, and reflects on the importance of mentorship, perspective, and lifelong learning in law. From building expertise and writing one of the first internet law treatises, to counseling clients through high-stakes cases, Ian’s story is filled with practical lessons for lawyers and business leaders alike. Whether you’re an attorney navigating your career, a leader working with legal teams, or just fascinated by how law keeps pace with technology, this conversation offers insights you can take with you.

8. 

   10 Nov 2025

   Episode 4: Ashok Ramani - Head of IP Litigation at Davis Polk

   In this episode Harry Hawthorne sits down with Ashok Ramani for a candid, practical tour of life as an IP trial lawyer. From starting in engineering classes at UC Berkeley to Harvard Law, a federal district court clerkship in DC, early trial reps at a boutique, and now leading a trial-first IP practice at Davis Polk, Ashok shares what actually moves the needle: getting reps, thinking fast, and mentoring relentlessly. We dig into staying calm under pressure (his exercise + meditation routine), imposter syndrome (everyone has it), the rise of AI (and what it means for junior work and training), and why juries are increasingly comfortable with big numbers in patent cases. If you’re an associate eyeing the courtroom—or a GC navigating high-stakes IP—this episode is equal parts playbook and perspective.

9. 

   7 Oct 2025

   Episode 3: Scott Evans - Founding Partner US at Stobbs (Ex-Adobe & Yahoo)

   In this episode, Harry Hawthorne sits down with Scott Evans, a seasoned IP lawyer who has navigated everything from high-stakes trials to leading brand protection at Yahoo and Adobe, and now shaping the U.S. presence of Stobbs. Scott shares his unconventional journey from the stage to the courtroom, his candid take on big law versus in-house life, and why risk taking is essential for innovation. We dive into work life balance, mentorship, the future of law in the age of AI, and building a career rooted in trust and resilience. Whether you’re a junior lawyer, a partner, or simply curious about how legal careers really evolve, this episode is packed with stories, lessons, and honest insights you won’t want to miss.

10. 

    29 Sept 2025

    Episode 2: Scott Frank - Former President & CEO – AT&T Intellectual Property LLC

    In this episode, Harry Hawthorne sits down with Scott Frank, who recently retired after nearly 30 years leading intellectual property at AT&T, to explore his journey from engineer to patent attorney to corporate leader. Scott shares candid insights on how he pivoted careers, why soft skills often matter more than technical expertise, the importance of building genuine relationships in a digital world, and how to “create your own luck” through service and community. He also reflects on what has changed most in the legal landscape since the 1990s, what kept him at AT&T for three decades, and what’s next as he devotes his time to advancing global IP awareness and education. Packed with practical lessons and inspiring stories, this conversation is a must-listen for lawyers, business leaders, and anyone navigating their own career path.

11. 

    21 Sept 2025

    Episode 1: Rachel Lovejoy - Former Chief IP Counsel at SpaceX

    In this episode, Harry Hawthorne sits down with Rachel Lovejoy, former Chief IP Counsel at SpaceX, to explore her extraordinary career journey — from Harvard Law, to 11 years at IBM, to helping guide one of the most innovative companies on earth through complex intellectual property challenges. Rachel opens up about what it takes to thrive in high-pressure environments, the lessons she learned from the dot-com boom and bust, and how six months of unemployment early in her career shaped her perspective on resilience and networking. She shares stories from inside SpaceX & IBM. This conversation is packed with career advice, leadership lessons, and behind-the-scenes insights into life at the intersection of law, technology, and space exploration.

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