That Super Show brings you the latest news, insights and industry interviews to help Australian superannuation professionals improve retirement outcomes for Australians. Hosted by Sarah Penn, CEO of Mayflower Consulting, and Neil Benson, CEO of Superware.
That Super Show
Claim This Podcastby Neil Benson & Sarah Penn
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33 episodes
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Podcast Overview
That Super Show brings you the latest news, insights and industry interviews to help Australian superannuation professionals improve retirement outcomes for Australians. Hosted by Sarah Penn, CEO of Mayflower Consulting, and Neil Benson, CEO of Superware.
Language
🇺🇲
Publishing Since
6/30/2025
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Recent Episodes
August 9, 2026
Prime and Aware Merger, Fee Hikes, and the Pricing Challenge in Superannuation
<p>#32. Neil Benson unpacks the growing pressure on Australian superannuation funds to clearly explain what members pay for, and whether scale, complexity, and rising costs are delivering genuine value.</p><p>Central tension: As more funds merge, raise fees, or tweak insurance, the old argument that "bigger is better" isn't enough. Members, regulators, and boards now demand concrete proof that these changes actually improve retirement outcomes, service, and member experience—especially as costs climb and the product gets more complex to explain.</p><p>* Blooper: Prime Super's 140,000 members would represent 10% of the enlarged Aware Super member base, not 1%. Neil should have stuck to his notes.</p><p>Key arguments and questions explored:</p><ul><li>Mergers like Prime Super and Aware Super may boost size, but Neil challenges whether these scale plays tangibly benefit members, especially from the dominant fund's perspective.</li><li>Insurance changes at BUSSQ Super underline difficult trade-offs between providing better cover and increasing cost, especially for underinsured sectors. The real issue is whether members understand (and want) what they’re getting.</li><li>Fee increases at giants like AustralianSuper raise hard questions: If scale was supposed to lower costs, why are fees going up? Is new spending—on tech, cyber, compliance—making members’ lives better, or just making the business bigger?</li><li>As funds like Spaceship Super seek higher fees to enter complex investments like private credit, Neil warns it’s not enough to promise higher returns; funds owe members a transparent, easily understood rationale.</li><li>The big challenge across these stories: Can funds make their increasingly sophisticated offerings understandable and defensible without alienating members or regulators?</li></ul><br/><p>Who should listen:</p><ul><li>Fund trustees or executives facing member questioning about mergers, fees, or insurance changes</li><li>CX, product, and insurance leads in super funds wrestling with how to communicate value to disengaged or skeptical members</li><li>Anyone in superannuation tasked with justifying strategy to regulators or boards</li></ul><br/><h2>RESOURCES</h2><ul><li><a href="https://aware.com.au/member/about-us/newsroom/august-2026/prime-super-and-aware-super-announce-plans-to-explore-successor-fund-transfer" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Prime Super and Aware Super announce plans to explore Successor Fund Transfer</a></li><li><a href="https://www.superreview.com.au/australiansuper-lifts-administration-fees-while-investment-costs-decline/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AustralianSuper lifts administration fees while investment costs decline</a></li><li><a href="https://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/bussq-ups-insurance-cover-costs-179813490" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BUSSQ ups insurance cover, costs</a></li><li><a href="https://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/bussq-ups-insurance-cover-costs-179813490" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Spaceship Super ups fees on private credit exposure</a></li></ul><br/><p><h1><strong>That Super Show</strong></h1><p>That Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.</p><p>Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.thatsuper.show/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit That Super Show website</a> and become a newsletter subscriber</li><li>Email <a href="mailto:hello@thatsuper.show" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">hello@thatsuper.show</a> if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestion</li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/thatsupershow" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow That Super Show on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thatsuper-show" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow That Super Show on YouTube</a></li></ul><br/><h2><strong>Your Cohosts</strong></h2><p><strong>Sarah Penn</strong></p><p>Sarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpennau/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/mayflowerconsulting/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://mayflower.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit Mayflower Consulting website</a></li></ul><br/><p><strong>Neil Benson</strong></p><p>Neil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds, banks, insurers, utilities and public sector organisations. His AI startup, Novagentic, was acquired by ChandlerCX in February 2026.</p><ul><li><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/neilbenson" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Neil on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/chandlercx" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow ChandlerCX on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://chandler.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit ChandlerCX website</a></li></ul><br/></p>
July 30, 2026
Xavier O'Halloran: Superannuation's Customer Service Failures
<p>#31. The episode digs into why customer service in superannuation call centres is consistently failing, what that means for members at moments of real need, and whether mandatory service standards are required to fix it.</p><p>Xavier O'Halloran of Super Consumers Australia joins Neil Benson and Sarah Penn to break down the findings of a first-of-its-kind research project: not one super fund met basic customer care expectations, with average scores across the industry barely scraping 49 out of 100.</p><p>The conversation moves beyond the numbers to challenge assumptions about what good service actually looks like in super, question the incentives facing funds, and ask whether consumers can trust the market to improve on its own—or if regulation and public benchmarking are the only way forward.</p><p>There's a clear sense that too much focus on efficiency metrics, like short call durations, misses the real point: helping people, often at their most vulnerable. The hosts and guest also debate wider consumer protection gaps, from SMSFs to retirement product design, arguing that fair and accessible service must be a foundation, not an afterthought.</p><h2>Who should listen</h2><ul><li>Super fund executives and trustees concerned about service standards or looming regulation</li><li>Contact centre leaders tasked with improving member experience</li><li>Policy or compliance professionals tracking how customer care is shaping industry benchmarking and government intervention</li></ul><br/><h2>Standout quote</h2><p>"They just had to act like a human. So not very high bar, but that was the one that they scored worse on." — Xavier O'Halloran</p><h2>Highlights</h2><p>04:40 Issues with superannuation customer service</p><p>06:45 Improving service through practical examples</p><p>10:55 Addressing vulnerable customer interactions</p><p>14:59 Research to improve fund transparency</p><p>18:54 Consumer channel preferences by age</p><p>19:32 Superannuation accessibility and diversity</p><p>24:00 Discussion on advice fee levies</p><p>27:53 Proposed reforms for SMSF trustees</p><p>30:16 Concerns about low-cost SMSFs</p><p>33:04 Understanding consumer retirement planning</p><p>37:11 Evaluating retirement investment options</p><p>42:08 Advancements in individual savings</p><p>45:53 Improving retirement service integration</p><p>49:32 Concerns about retirement planning changes</p><p>51:19 Discussing safe harbor legislation concerns</p><h2>Guest: Xavier O'Halloran</h2><ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/xavier-o-halloran-a6153673/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Xavier O'Halloran on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/super-consumers-australia" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow Super Consumers Australia on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://superconsumers.com.au/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit Super Consumers Australia website</a></li></ul><br/><p><h1><strong>That Super Show</strong></h1><p>That Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.</p><p>Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.thatsuper.show/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit That Super Show website</a> and become a newsletter subscriber</li><li>Email <a href="mailto:hello@thatsuper.show" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">hello@thatsuper.show</a> if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestion</li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/thatsupershow" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow That Super Show on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thatsuper-show" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow That Super Show on YouTube</a></li></ul><br/><h2><strong>Your Cohosts</strong></h2><p><strong>Sarah Penn</strong></p><p>Sarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpennau/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/mayflowerconsulting/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://mayflower.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit Mayflower Consulting website</a></li></ul><br/><p><strong>Neil Benson</strong></p><p>Neil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds, banks, insurers, utilities and public sector organisations. His AI startup, Novagentic, was acquired by ChandlerCX in February 2026.</p><ul><li><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/neilbenson" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Neil on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/chandlercx" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow ChandlerCX on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://chandler.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit ChandlerCX website</a></li></ul><br/></p><p>Mentioned in this episode:</p><p><strong>Chandler CX Digital Forms</strong></p><p> You know that eight-page PDF form that scares off half your members before they finish page two? We turn it into a smart, mobile-first digital form. Prefilled, validated in real time, signed on the spot and straight through processed into your registry. https://www.chandler.com.au/cx-receive/receive</p><p><a href="https://thatsupershow.captivate.fm/chandlercx">ChandlerCX</a></p>
June 29, 2026
Transforming Death Claims Handling: How CBUS Super Tackled Super’s Most Challenging Process
<p>#30. Cohosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn chat with Kerry Vogel, Head of Insurance Claims, Performance and Delivery at CBUS Super. </p><p>Today's conversation focuses on how CBUS Super responded to major failings in handling death claims by moving beyond surface fixes and fundamentally redesigning the process.</p><p>The central argument: Australian super funds create unnecessary complexity and distress for grieving families by relying on outdated, paperwork-heavy systems, and CBUS has proven it’s possible (and necessary) to remove those frictions even within tight regulatory constraints.</p><p>A key theme that emerged was how stripping away non-binding and lapsing nomination options, and instead prioritizing a single, digital-first, non-lapsing binding nomination, can mean faster, simpler outcomes, anchored in clear trust deed rules and tailored to real member behaviours. The discussion explored why simply throwing more staff at claim backlogs doesn’t work and how only deep, systemic change can build genuine trust with members. Several points were raised, including the regulatory grey areas around nominations, the human cost of delays, and the need to make processes as straightforward, and as empathetic, as possible.</p><p><strong>Who should listen</strong></p><ul><li>Claims and operations leaders in Australian super funds struggling with legacy processes and regulatory pressure</li><li>Product or legal professionals considering trust deed reform or digital transformation of member nominations</li><li>Trustees and fund executives wary of adopting bold procedural changes post-regulatory action</li></ul><br/><h2>Guest: Kerry Vogel</h2><ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerry-vogel-14b54153/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Kerry Vogel on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/cbus-super-fund" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow CBUS Super on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.cbussuper.com.au/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit CBUS Super website</a></li></ul><br/><h2>Highlights</h2><ul><li>Kerry Vogel emphasizes that death claims are both a crucial responsibility and a complex challenge for superannuation funds, highlighting the emotional weight behind these processes.</li><li>The podcast reveals how Kerry led efforts at CBUS Super to overhaul the death claims process, aiming to simplify and enhance member understanding of their benefits.</li><li>A significant point discussed was the need for clarity in binding nominations, as many members mistakenly believe their nominations are more definitive than they are, illustrating a gap in financial literacy.</li><li>Kerry's approach includes not just streamlining procedures but also ensuring that the claims team maintains empathy, recognizing the human stories behind each claim.</li><li>The conversation touched on the importance of regulatory compliance while seeking innovative solutions to make the claims process more efficient and user-friendly.</li><li>Kerry stresses the continuous nature of improvement, suggesting that the claims process will always evolve, reflecting the need to stay responsive to member needs and industry changes.</li></ul><br/><h2>Chapters</h2><p>00:00 Examining superannuation challenges</p><p>04:23 Challenges in Death Claim Processing</p><p>10:56 Ensuring valid member nominations</p><p>15:01 Dealing with death claim objections</p><p>18:54 Discussing estate distribution process</p><p>21:00 Addressing nominations and trustee discretion</p><p>24:17 Ensuring policy transparency</p><p>28:26 Issues with binding nominations</p><p>31:40 Implementing a new claims process</p><p>35:52 Simplifying call center processes</p><p>38:09 Analyzing and improving death claims</p><p>40:01 Discussing problem-solving approaches</p><p><h1><strong>That Super Show</strong></h1><p>That Super Show is the most downloaded podcast for Australian superannuation professionals. Sarah and Neil cover the issues, debates and decisions shaping the industry - without the spin.</p><p>Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to leave us a rating and review.</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.thatsuper.show/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit That Super Show website</a> and become a newsletter subscriber</li><li>Email <a href="mailto:hello@thatsuper.show" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">hello@thatsuper.show</a> if you've got a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest proposal or suggestion</li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/thatsupershow" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow That Super Show on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@thatsuper-show" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow That Super Show on YouTube</a></li></ul><br/><h2><strong>Your Cohosts</strong></h2><p><strong>Sarah Penn</strong></p><p>Sarah Penn is the CEO and founder of Mayflower Consulting, an Australian financial services consultancy specialising in product governance, PDS management, and product operating model design. Her team works with super funds, fund managers, and investment platforms across Australia.</p><ul><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpennau/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/mayflowerconsulting/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://mayflower.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit Mayflower Consulting website</a></li></ul><br/><p><strong>Neil Benson</strong></p><p>Neil Benson is the global chief product officer at ChandlerCX, where he leads a team focused on intelligent customer messaging for regulated organisations, including superannuation funds, banks, insurers, utilities and public sector organisations. His AI startup, Novagentic, was acquired by ChandlerCX in February 2026.</p><ul><li><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/neilbenson" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Connect with Neil on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/chandlercx" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Follow ChandlerCX on LinkedIn</a></li><li><a href="https://chandler.com.au" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Visit ChandlerCX website</a></li></ul><br/></p><p>Mentioned in this episode:</p><p><strong>Chandler CX Digital Forms</strong></p><p> You know that eight-page PDF form that scares off half your members before they finish page two? We turn it into a smart, mobile-first digital form. Prefilled, validated in real time, signed on the spot and straight through processed into your registry. https://www.chandler.com.au/cx-receive/receive</p><p><a href="https://thatsupershow.captivate.fm/chandlercx">ChandlerCX</a></p>
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