The Art and Science of Difficult Conversations

About The Art and Science of Difficult Conversations

When we communicate better, we lead better, perform better, build better relationships, and ultimately live better. Ready to learn? Join us to learn how to handle difficult conversations with the people in your professional life. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Want to be a guest on our podcast? Let us know! https://bit.ly/3z4Sn5w

Publisher

Chris Wong & Lucie Tesarova

Category

business · education · education

Language

en

Explicit

No

First episode

21 Sept 2023

Latest episode

13 Oct 2026

Latest episodes

138 episodes in the feed.

1. 

   13 Oct 2026

   How to Deliver Hard News to Someone Who Cares Deeply (Part 2), with Elizabeth Schuster & Marissa Ferrari.

   How do you tell someone who has poured their heart into a program that it's being cut, without losing their trust or their commitment to the mission? In Part 2 of our Season 4 premiere, Elizabeth Schuster and Marissa Ferrari of Sustainable Economies join Lucie and Chris for a live role play. Elizabeth guides Lucie, playing a passionate program director, through the moment her outreach program is downsized during budget season. Then we unpack what worked and why. In this episode: A real-time role play of delivering hard news to someone deeply attached to the mission Acknowledging before redirecting, and why rushing to solutions backfires The power of "and" instead of "but" to hold two truths at once What shifted Lucie from "maybe this isn't the place for me" to "tell me more" Having disagreement in front of the group, and when to take it one-on-one Why people keep bringing up the past, and what real repair looks like "Name it to tame it": calling out tension in the moment The pre-mortem and the question every leader should ask: "Are you open to changing your mind?" Preparing yourself mentally and emotionally before you facilitate Listener challenge: The next time you deliver hard news, catch one "but" and replace it with "and." Notice how differently the other person responds when both truths are allowed to stand. About our guests Elizabeth Schuster is an environmental economist and Partner at Sustainable Economies with 25 years of experience in sustainability and community development. Marissa Ferrari is Creative Director at Sustainable Economies, a researcher, brand strategist and facilitator who advises leaders in conservation, parks and environmental education. Together they help mission-driven organizations turn passion into strategic plans that make a difference. Website: https://sustainableeconomies.com (https://sustainableeconomies.com) Elizabeth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethfschuster/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethfschuster/) Marissa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissaferrari (https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissaferrari) About your hosts Lucie Tesarova, ICF PCC, is the founder of MindFittery and coaches leaders on the inner game of high-stakes conversations: https://www.mindfittery.com (https://www.mindfittery.com) Chris Wong helps leaders and for-purpose organizations build intentional cultures and systems: https://www.myleadershippotential.com (https://www.myleadershippotential.com) Download Chris's Difficult Conversation Playbook for Leaders: https://www.tinyurl.com/difficultplaybook (https://www.tinyurl.com/difficultplaybook) Never miss an episode Podcast hub, newsletter and resources: https://www.myleadershippotential.com/podcast (https://www.myleadershippotential.com/podcast) Sign up for the podcast newsletter: https://the-art-science-of-difficult-conversations-podcast.kit.com/ (https://the-art-science-of-difficult-conversations-podcast.kit.com/) Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TAS.difficultconversations (https://www.youtube.com/@TAS.difficultconversations) Nonprofit executive directors: Chris is writing a book on succession planning, scenario planning and developing leaders on a shoestring budget, and would love to interview you. Get in touch at https://www.myleadershippotential.com/podcast (https://www.myleadershippotential.com/podcast) Next week: we dive into resilience.

2. 

   6 Oct 2026

   How to Get Real Agreement When Everyone Cares Too Much, with Elizabeth Schuster & Marissa Ferrari

   Strategic planning is hard in any organization. In a nonprofit, where people's identities are tied to the mission, every priority feels personal, and every cut feels like a betrayal of values. In this Season 4 premiere, Lucie and Chris talk with Elizabeth Schuster and Marissa Ferrari, co-leaders of Sustainable Economies, about what really happens in the room when passionate people have to decide together. They share how they design processes that expect conflict instead of fearing it, why "safe to disagree" still isn't enough to prevent false agreement, and the inner work facilitators and leaders need to do so they can stay steady when the room gets tense. Meet our guests Elizabeth Schuster, Environmental Economist and Partner, Sustainable Economies Elizabeth is an economic professional with 25 years of experience in sustainability and community development, in the U.S. and around the world. She was educated at Oberlin College and the University of Arizona. She has partnered with conservation nonprofits, park districts, museums and botanical gardens, coalitions, agricultural organizations, and municipalities. Her research covers regenerative agriculture economics, food production, and ecosystem service valuation. Her work has earned national recognition, including awards from the American Farm Bureau Federation and the NJ Association of Floodplain Management. She is passionate about bridging gaps and bringing data and strategy together to drive positive change. Marissa Ferrari, Creative Director, Sustainable Economies Marissa is a researcher, brand strategist, and facilitator and a trusted advisor to local and national leaders in conservation, parks, land protection, and environmental education. She uses a research-driven approach to shape strategy, messaging, and organizational identity, helping mission-driven organizations unite purpose and potential to reach their most ambitious goals. Over 25 years, she has worked her way up from writer to senior director. She has led dozens of large-scale research, strategy, and branding projects for nonprofits, public agencies, and coalitions, including American Forests' Tree Equity initiative, the High Line Network's Grand River Network river corridor revitalization, and the Cleveland Museum of Natural History's land trust. She is certified by the International Association for Sustainable Economy (IASE) as an International Sustainable Business Advisor. Sustainable Economies is a strategic planning, branding and communications, and applied research firm based in Wooster, Ohio. It helps mission-driven organizations turn their passion into strategic plans that make a difference, not a pretty binder that sits on a shelf. 🔗 https://sustainableeconomies.com (https://sustainableeconomies.com) 🔗 Elizabeth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethfschuster/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethfschuster/) 🔗 Marissa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissaferrari (https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissaferrari) What we cover Why treating planning as a learning experience makes people braver and their ideas bolder The expert who found out nobody understood his work, and why data from stakeholders landed where feedback from facilitators couldn't Naming the low point in advance: telling teams upfront that there will be a moment when it feels like everything is falling apart What facilitators do with their own nerves and the urge to please, even after decades of experience The over-explaining trap and the question-stacking habit When asking for more input is avoiding a decision, and what that costs in time, money, and trust Setting decision points and "how much evidence is enough" before you start Loss aversion and why the most mission-driven staff find it hardest to let go Why teams smile and nod even when it's safe to disagree, and the step-by-step agreement method that fixes it Notable quotes "Just because someone is annoyed doesn't mean we said the wrong thing." (Elizabeth) "Even if you create an environment where people feel safe to disagree, you still get smiling and nodding." (Elizabeth) "They were trying to avoid conflict by having everybody reach consensus, but instead created a lot more conflict by avoiding the decision themselves." (Marissa) "When they see that we can navigate through that tension, it restores their trust in us as facilitators, but it also deepens their trust in themselves and in each other." (Marissa) "That is still something that I have to coach myself about to this day." (Marissa, on nerves before big meetings) "No nonprofit professional in the history of ever has wanted to sunset their favorite program." (Elizabeth) Listener challenge In your next team decision, don't take a nod as agreement. Pause and ask: "Can someone say back, in their own words, what we just agreed to?" If you hear two different versions, you've found the real conversation. Bonus inner-game rep: the next time someone looks frustrated with you, notice the urge to explain again. Take one breath and let the silence do the work. Your hosts Lucie Tesarova is the founder of MindFittery and an ICF PCC-credentialed coach who helps leaders build the mental fitness and emotional intelligence to lead through high-stakes conversations. Her focus is the inner game: what happens inside you before, during, and after the hard moment. 🔗 https://www.mindfittery.com (https://www.mindfittery.com) | Newsletter: https://mindfittery.kit.com/profile (https://mindfittery.kit.com/profile) Chris Wong helps leaders and for-purpose organizations build intentional cultures and systems through End Accidental Leadership. His focus is the outer game: structures, culture, and how teams really work. 🔗 https://www.myleadershippotential.com (https://www.myleadershippotential.com) | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc) 📘 Download the Difficult Conversation Playbook for Leaders: https://www.tinyurl.com/difficultplaybook (https://www.tinyurl.com/difficultplaybook) Listen, watch, subscribe 🎧 Podcast: https://tas-difficultconversations.captivate.fm (https://tas-difficultconversations.captivate.fm) ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TAS.difficultconversations (https://www.youtube.com/@TAS.difficultconversations) ✉️ Newsletter: https://the-art-science-of-difficult-conversations-podcast.kit.com/ (https://the-art-science-of-difficult-conversations-podcast.kit.com/) The Art & Science of Difficult Conversations: when you communicate better, you live better.

3. 

   7 Jul 2026

   Is AI making us end the show?

   Sorry for the click-bait title, but as season 3 comes to an end, Lucie and Chris have some big news to share. They also spend a few minutes talking about the rise of AI, especially how it impacts difficult conversations. Then they share some BIG news for listeners. How will you spend the summer? Connect with us: Email – tas.difficultconversations@gmail.com (mailto:tas.difficultconversations@gmail.com) Chris – https://www.myleadershippotential.com (https://www.myleadershippotential.com/) | www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc (http://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswonglmhc) | download the Difficult Conversation Playbook for Leaders (https://www.tinyurl.com/difficultplaybook) Lucie – www.mindfittery.com (https://www.mindfittery.com/) | www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova (http://www.linkedin.com/in/lucietesarova) and take the Saboteur Assessment (https://mindfittery.com/befree)

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